eye damage

[Achilles]

Some of my fellow kenshi have told me horror stories about splinters from shinai coming between the bars in the men-gane and causing serious eye-damage.

Such kenshi wear clear plastic eye protectors behind the men-gane or Hasegawa Mujun men.

Can anyone corroborate these tales? True stories? In all my years of practice, I've never seen anything like it, nor met someone who had been blinded/suffered vision loss from a shinai/chuk-do splinter.

[alexpollijr]

I' worry about it from time to time, when serving as motodachi for beginners. Often they don't know how to care about their shinai, and frequently fragments would fly in my face after those Scorpion King-esque men blows.

I've been thinking about getting a mujun men or a shield, but so far I've decided to take the risks.

Since we're talking bout it, Hyaku, can you get me a quote on a Mujun Men?

Cheers,

Alex

[Simon Chien]

I put eye shield in the MEN of my kid for futher protection of the eyes and I start wearing Glass in the MEN for both protection and for a more clear view.

[Kendoka]

Shinai maintenance is important as is the sakigawa length which should be minimum 50mm.

[Hyaku]

I do know someone who had one of these nasty injuries. Even working with bamboo and getting it under the skin is nasty. It goes septic in no time at all.

Hyaku

[Will]

I heard that a sensei from mexico was killed when someone with an improperly maintanenced shinai hit him and it split through the men-gane. I think it was because the little metal piece at the hilt of the shinai wasn't there and so it slid out and went right through his eye....

[hamish]

I've had a friend get a small splinter in his eye from his opponenet's shinai. His eye swelled up very quickly, but the doctor couldn't find anything at all until his second visit the same day, when he got a high powered lens out and found a very small sliver of bamboo.

Luckily his vision was not impaired, but it very well could have been.

Alex, do you check beginnners' shinai before or while you train with them? They'll learn pretty quickly when you refuse to train with them until they sort their shinai out.

Hamish

[alexpollijr]

Hamish

From time to time I walk among them telling them to take off the shipping cords of the shinai, to check for splintering, etc, but the fact is that most of the time there's no opportunity for these procedures. Many of my shodan colleagues also know that their shinai is letting go of splints but do nothing about it, so it's not strange that beginners do the same.

Shinai is quite expensive in Brazil since they have to be imported with 60% taxes, so they only stop using the one they own when it breaks. That's why I'm planning to buy a new men or a plastic shield, but both look horrible :confused:

[KhawMengLee]

Somw of my seniors told me that the eye protector (fits in the men) actually interferes with breathing.

A senior said when he first tried it he could feel the air coming from the top and bottom of the plastic eye protector. When he removed it the difference was "amazing" he said.

I actually wear sports goggles( yes like a fighter pilot) so the splinters aren't a problem.


Meng

[eddiez]

I never thought much about poorly maintained shinai until just last weekend. During practice with a much higher ranked partner, his shinai cut right through my tsura an my shinai quickly fell apart. Upon examination of his shinai I saw that it was badly splintered and cracked and and it was this split side that cleanly cut through my tsura. As far as I'm concernded, it is now pretty apparent why people warn that poorly maintened shinais are dangerous. Thank goodness it wasn't something like my eye.

[Confound]

Originally posted by Achilles
Some of my fellow kenshi have told me horror stories about splinters from shinai coming between the bars in the men-gane and causing serious eye-damage.

Can anyone corroborate these tales?

Back to the original post... I can't corroborate a story of splinters, but i can recommend that you spend time CLEANING THE FLOOR, and the inside of your men. My budokan is very dirty. I clean the floor, but it doesn't help, people walk outside with bare feet, then come inside, without wiping them. It's really nasty.

Shortly after starting kendou, I contracted a mysterious eye illness, which was of course, improperly treated by japanese doctors, and it instead developed complications and turned into uveitis. I've had it for 10 months now, and it does get noticeably worse when the budokan floor is extremely dirty. the dirt is stirred up and gets inside my men, making my eyes worse.

if i can pass one useful piece of information on to everyone else, it would be: clean the floor. i'll never see properly again in my life, because of a bloody dirty floor and poor medical care too.


c

[JSchmidt]

Confound, do you have to slag off people in every post?. It's getting a little tiresome.

Jakob

[cklin]

Well, thank goodness that the stories have yet to be corroborated...

However, I remember a vivid demonstration by one of my sensei of this precise danger. It was during a break in keiko when he was talking to us about shinai maintenance -- he took an el cheapo shinai, broke it just so that there were these long, menacing looking splinters... Then he demonstrated (in slow motion and safely, of course) how the splints could travel through a men gane (on a kohai, phew!)...

Suffice to say that the only way to make sure you will never corroborate this story in your own dojo is to inculcate a sense of care for equipment... Admittedly it's hard to do, what with busy lives and just plain laziness(!), but I try to periodically remind people to check their shinai after keiko, especially (1) for beginners when they start hitting a motodachi, (2) after a particularly hard keiko, and (3) during the winter months (here in the Northeast US, the air gets pretty dry).

After all, it's out of consideration for others, isn't it?

As to protective equipment, Hasegawa just recently (well, in the past couple years) got their visor men design approved for use in tournaments. It's been advertised in "Kendo Jidai" pretty regularly since -- basically, the men gane has a little plastic window cut into it where the rungs would normally be a little wider . Unfortunately, I haven't seen this item carried by any kendo e-tailer.

[Confound]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
Confound, do you have to slag off people in every post?. It's getting a little tiresome.

Jakob

YOU <insert word i'm going to leave out>!

I am not slagging anyone! I'm trying to pass on a piece of advice, so that NO ONE ELSE gets an incurable disease. Having this particular illness is easily prevented, and i wouldn't want anyone else to get it! Thus, seeing that someone had a post on eye problems, I thought I would pass along some information.

However, if you would ENJOY getting uevitis, and ENJOY having the possibility of going blind before you turn 40 (i am only 22 now), then please, ignore my well-intentioned post.

c

[David J]

Originally posted by Confound


YOU <insert word i'm going to leave out>!

I am not slagging anyone! c


Errr...for the record, yes you are....

"a mysterious eye illness, which was of course, improperly treated by japanese doctors"

...therefore all Japanese doctors are incompetant. You are a little fond of sweeping, negative generalisations ("what a sorry lot you all are"), and then you always say "I'm not negative!!"......

Jakob - maybe she just likes to keep us typing.... :D

<never-the-less, rei>

Dave

[Confound]

Have you ever tried to get treatment from a doctor who says, "I can't treat you because you're not <insert ethnicity here>." Or how about "Your <insert body part> is not Japanese. I don't know how to treat it."

Wouldn't you become frustrated after visiting a veritable paradie of doctors who all said such silly things to you? Finally I received good medical care, but it was from doctors at a university hospital, most of whom have worked abroad, and are perfectly aware that my body is no different than a Japanese person's when it comes to treating illnesses.

Also, if you had developed further complications to the illness because no one would treat you, wouldn't you be annoyed? Imagine for a moment that you are in youe early twenties, and you're facing the nasty reality of going blind, just because of some people who should have known better....

A doctor is a well educated individual, there is no reason for him or her to hold such out of date, somewhat racist views. If you went to see a doctor in your home country and they said they were unable to treat you because your ethnicity, wouldn't you feel as though someone were discriminating against you?

then again, I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone, even people who deliberately misunderstand, and are intent on blindly NOT understanding what goes on in japan....

c

[alexpollijr]

Cklin,

Yea, the only e-kendo store i've seen so far carrying hasegawa's mujun men is http://www.tokyoman.com/english/gray/main.htm

They say Naoki Eiga uses their equipment, whcih I pretty much doubt since Eguchi says the same thing.

Anyway, Hasegawa Co. 's website has the prices for mujun men, but since I can't understand it I sent email to them for a quote, but apparently they: a) don't check email b) don't understand english c) don't sell to the end-user.

So, if someone is in Japan and can fetch me a price, I'd be glad.

Recently, this guy (who's my senior) was fighting with two large prongs out of his shinai, I wonder if he didn't see that he was wielding a bamboo spiked XII-century mace.:confused:

[olaf]

http://www.tokyoman.com/

Oh my...another sketchy online kendo retailer... Their prices are definitely close to Japanese budo equipment prices, but I can't tell if, like most of the other online stores, outsource from Korea. Their tournament flags, for instance, come in blue and white - I've never seen those colors used before. Strange.

alexpollijr - if you're looking for genuinely good kendo equipment online - check out http://www.moribudo.co.jp

Request a catalog online, and mail order. Their prices aren't very competitive (well, compared to, say, kendoshop.com) but they make amazing stuff. I am not sure whether they carry the plexi glass men from Hasegawa.

[cklin]

Olaf: White and blue flags are used in kumdo...

[alexpollijr]

Olaf

yes I know, I am a happy Mori customer. My sensei was from the Police of Kyoto so their supplier at that time was Moribudo. I like their stuff, and sensei has nice discounts for being an old customer.

But now and then I'm in for some cheap equipment, to waste away in practice.

This tokyoman is the only store to carry Mujun men, but the price is quite high.

cheers

[olaf]

Cklin: I figured as much, since that site kept on asking me to install the Korean language pack... :)

I guess that answers my question about whether they are another online retailer of Korean budo equipment...

[hamish]

Their address is a bit of a giveaway, too ;-)

Hamish

[stinkyKote]

Actually, I've heard of that sensei from mexico as well, although I heard he didn't die, but he is blind in one eye. Several months back we had a shinpan seminar at my dojo, and my sensei pointed out to me a guy from mexico and mentioned that awhile back someone struck his men with a splintered shinai and it shattered sending bamboo splinters into one of his eyes.

If you're still wondering how dangerous a shattering shinai is, try snapping a shinai stave in half and then talking a look it-it breaks into little needle like splinters like spines on a porcupine- scary stuff-

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Confound


Back to the original post... I can't corroborate a story of splinters, but i can recommend that you spend time CLEANING THE FLOOR, and the inside of your men. My budokan is very dirty. I clean the floor, but it doesn't help, people walk outside with bare feet, then come inside, without wiping them. It's really nasty.

Shortly after starting kendou, I contracted a mysterious eye illness, which was of course, improperly treated by japanese doctors, and it instead developed complications and turned into uveitis. I've had it for 10 months now, and it does get noticeably worse when the budokan floor is extremely dirty. the dirt is stirred up and gets inside my men, making my eyes worse.

if i can pass one useful piece of information on to everyone else, it would be: clean the floor. i'll never see properly again in my life, because of a bloody dirty floor and poor medical care too.


c

I think this post is quite interesting, however can you answer me one question has anybody else in your dojo contracted this strange illness? if not i feel that it may be an alergy...what do ya think...because it seems a bit strange that if you are the only person to have contracted this illness...in any case...the best thing to suggest to help with this illness as you have said that it keeps getting worse because of the dirty floor...well then i suggest that you speak to your senior to try and clean up the dojo...if that does not work...i guess the only way is you clean the floor yourself by arriving early to the dojo...which in effect will set an example to the other kendokas...if that does not seem to be your cup of tea then i suggest look for another dojo....hehehehe:D but i am sure it would not get to that kind of situation.

[Confound]

Kenshin, without sanding patronizing` let me first tell you that it's a nice suggestion, but...

I am not the only one in the budokan with an eye illness, but I am the only one in the budokan who is not Japanese. If you have lived here, you'd probably know that nothing gets cleaned with anything better than cold water. Thus, the Japanese have a strange immunity to dirt and some germs. I was fully vaccinated before coming, but still I've been dreadfully ill since I got here, almost continuallly.

the floor does get cleaned, every practice, before and after, however, straight after the cleaning, people usually wander outside, in their bare feet, then wander back in. it's a curious phenomenon really. at this point, my eyes are so sick that any change in the budokan floor wouldn't matter. this illness in my eyes is almost completely divorced from it's original cause.

the original disease was conjunctivitis, which was misdiagnosed, and them mistreated by 2 doctors, which gave the disease time to develop complications, and turn into a far nastier illness, which will probably leave me blind before i'm 40. how thrilling. people whine that i'm negative. well, facing the prospect of blindness as a result of doctors who are convinced my 'gaijin eyes' are somehow beyond the scope of their training, i should think that there is some justification for my anger. that and several incidents of sexual assault since I got here, but really, my eyes are the real reason i'm mad.

c

[KENSHIN]

from reading your last post, and without sounding to blunt...if the illness is that severe that it may cause blindness if incorrectly treated, and i am pretty sure that it is treatable...anyhoo, if you are unsatisfied by the treatment that you are recieving from the japenese doctors, than why don't you go back home where you would feel more comfortable? i mean ok i am not there so i can't really make any kind of judgments about your circumstances but i feel that if your problem is in some way with japenese men or doctors maybe it is not the country for you? what do ya think correct me if i am wrong...because as explained before by james or david (can't remember which one) that when you wrote your post from the outset it gave the impression that you was pointing the finger at all japenese doctors, but i am sure that that is not the case in which i also would like to believe that you think that too, and it was simply a matter of miswording...anyhoo i guess the point is don't be too angry with with all japanese doctors, as the one dealing wih you may just be a complete fool...but i guess the only real recomendation is to go abroad if it is not treatable there...slap me if i am wrong....hehehehe.:D

[Kuri]

Originally posted by KENSHIN
from reading your last post, and without sounding to blunt...

You're a wicked boy. You couldn't be more blunt even if you threw a brick.... :rolleyes:

It's quite sad that the threat of blindness is quite high. I've also been misdiagnosed by small clinic doctors. Now I just skip them and go directly to big city hospitals. Confound, you need to find people that will give you good advice and look out for you, for your own sake.

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Kuri


You're a wicked boy. You couldn't be more blunt even if you threw a brick.... :rolleyes:



....:D :D :D

[JSchmidt]

Hey, at least you *got* a diagnosis...something that's often hard to get here. :D
(Oh,the joys of the NHS)

Jakob

[Jerry Wellbrock]

This message if for Confound....not knowing your situation or treatment recieved I just wanted to pass this on to you....uveitis is a treatable inflammation of the eye....it's causes can be varied and many....there is an excellent website on uveitis and it's treatment that may provide you and your doctors with some help....www.uveitis.org.....my sincere best wishes for your outcome with this serious problem...Sincerely....Jerry

[Confound]

Blunt is good.

Kenshin I've been home once already. the doctors managed to clear up the infection, getting rid of almost all the imflammation. they sent me bakc to japan with medications. i took the meds as prescribed, but as soon as i returned to japan, the disease got worse all over again. it's very mysterious.

c

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Confound
Blunt is good.

Kenshin I've been home once already. the doctors managed to clear up the infection, getting rid of almost all the imflammation. they sent me bakc to japan with medications. i took the meds as prescribed, but as soon as i returned to japan, the disease got worse all over again. it's very mysterious.

c

this might be funny to say and really stupid off me, but i can't resist...your problem may be that you are just simply allergic to japan...:D :D

other than that i just find it really mystifying to hear this...but if it really is that bad why don't you just move from there, i mean of course it all really depends on what you do there, as what you maybe doing is your livelyhood too...but i guess if you personally feel and have accepted the fact that it has something to do with being in japan...then it is just a question of what you consider to be more important, i.e your job or your sight...i only say this because you made a statement that when you got it treated abroad or back home it was getting slightly better and as soon as you got back to japan it just got worse again...i don't know what to say, afterall its your life you do what you want...but i really hope that this situation with your sight is resolved...i really do hope so...i can imagine that to lose your sight would be the worst thing that could happen to someone...anyhoo, i hope you do get better.:)

[Confound]

I am allergic to Japan.

However, there are some good things about living here, like the pay.

c

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Confound
I am allergic to Japan.

However, there are some good things about living here, like the pay.

c

;) ;)