Mochida Moriji O-Sensei video! [Archive]

Kingofmyrrh

24-05-2007, 10:52 AM

I guess ippon were defined differently at that time.

I know what you mean, nobody's disputing the fact that he is great but you would get laughed out the shiaijo if you tried to claim that as ippon these days.

Ignatz

24-05-2007, 12:07 PM

I know what you mean, nobody's disputing the fact that he is great but you would get laughed out the shiaijo if you tried to claim that as ippon these days.

Why? Because of the mune? If so, then I respectfully disagree. It wasn't mune tsuki (an attack) but just a stand there and do nothing mune thing. I hate that and think it is bad kendo. It didn't even stop his forward motion.

I think he beautifully broke through the kamae and struck men well.

True, you probably would not get a point nowadays but my flag would have gone up.

ZtefaNNN[K]

24-05-2007, 12:46 PM

maybe because of zan-shin ? but I couldn´t say too much sometimes you have o be there to evaluate a good zan-shin.

I don´t see a mune tsuki either.

Kingofmyrrh

24-05-2007, 01:59 PM

Why? Because of the mune? If so, then I respectfully disagree. It wasn't mune tsuki (an attack) but just a stand there and do nothing mune thing. I hate that and think it is bad kendo. It didn't even stop his forward motion.

I think he beautifully broke through the kamae and struck men well.

True, you probably would not get a point nowadays but my flag would have gone up.

I don't see why the fact that the other guy was not attacking (I agree with this) has much effect on whether a point should be given. It's just like the old head dodging/excessive blocking debate. It doesn't matter what the other guy's doing, if you weren't able to make a clean strike then the problem lies with you. In this case it appears that Mochida sensei didn't break his composure completely. Anyway, I can't believe I am even saying this about a guy who would go on to become a 10th dan. I'm outta this discussion!

Kent Enfield

24-05-2007, 03:04 PM

ZtefaNNN[K]

24-05-2007, 03:12 PM

I have to wonder if people are watching the same video I am when they claim that there's no way that'd be ippon. Is it because he doesn't do the modern high-school run across the shiaijo shouting, "Men-n-n-n-men-me-me-me-n-n-n-men!" with hopping sideways and holding his shinai in a crappy jodan for extra "zanshin"? And, to me, it doesn't look like Nakano sensei even makes contact on his mune, at least not until after the strike has landed.

That´s what I wanted to say =P... must practice more english. thx.

kendokamax

24-05-2007, 10:43 PM

I have to wonder if people are watching the same video I am when they claim that there's no way that'd be ippon. Is it because he doesn't do the modern high-school run across the shiaijo shouting, "Men-n-n-n-men-me-me-me-n-n-n-men!" with hopping sideways and holding his shinai in a crappy jodan for extra "zanshin"? And, to me, it doesn't look like Nakano sensei even makes contact on his mune, at least not until after the strike has landed.

ok ya, but that's not the point. If you would be judging that match now, in 2007 , I'm not sure the point would have been considered valid.

There used to be no behind passes allowed in ice hockey, and there would still be great players at that time.

The great I AM

24-05-2007, 10:54 PM

I would have given it, purely to pass my next grading.

Curtis

25-05-2007, 12:15 AM

To understand this video you have to see the whole documentary that it comes from. A fascinating look at kendo in the 20's and 30's.

Black Knight

25-05-2007, 01:08 AM

Tell us more, Curtis!

Curtis

25-05-2007, 01:28 AM

Tell us more, Curtis!

There was a video special produced in Japan documenting kendo from the 20's and 30's leading up to WWII. It has all the great kendo masters of the day and a lot of tournament footage including matches before the Emperor of Japan. I got hold of a copy of it several years ago. Not sure how to get hold of it now. I would imagine it is available in Japan.

Interestingly I have met one of the sensei who performed kendo for Tojo (at least I think it was Tojo) as his last request before he was executed. Jifuku Sensei is about 90 now. Had a dinner party with him in November last year. Quite an interesting fellow with some good stories.

kendokamax

25-05-2007, 05:05 AM

There was a video special produced in Japan documenting kendo from the 20's and 30's leading up to WWII. It has all the great kendo masters of the day and a lot of tournament footage including matches before the Emperor of Japan. I got hold of a copy of it several years ago. Not sure how to get hold of it now. I would imagine it is available in Japan.

Interestingly I have met one of the sensei who performed kendo for Tojo (at least I think it was Tojo) as his last request before he was executed. Jifuku Sensei is about 90 now. Had a dinner party with him in November last year. Quite an interesting fellow with some good stories.

you have an idea where we can find that documentary?....would be a nice upload on youtube.

Kent Enfield

25-05-2007, 11:50 AM

judging that match now, in 2007 , I'm not sure the point would have been considered valid.Why not?

"The message you have entered is too short."

Ignatz

25-05-2007, 12:03 PM

. . .I don't see why the fact that the other guy was not attacking (I agree with this) has much effect on whether a point should be given.. . .

Because he seme'd him right out of his socks.

ahmed61086

25-05-2007, 12:10 PM

To me, it seemed like his aite just didn't see it coming. He sorta kepts center, and was able to touch the mune after the hit, but even in some shiia nowadays, youll see points given while people held center and the other guy hits men. Sometimes it could be a mistake in the Judgeing, but sometime it could be the feeling of the match.

But I dont know shit any way, just giving my thoughts.

kendokamax

25-05-2007, 01:00 PM

Why not?

"The message you have entered is too short."

I'm just comparing with modern kendo standard for ippon as I personnaly see it.

Even thought he got an opponing to the men the kensen of the opponent was still mildy alive. Because it kind of made him stop going foward.

After hiting he mostly stayed on the same spot after the men as if the opponent kensen was a distraction. In today's shiai someone would have to show more "sutemi" if they would get stuck with the kensen somewhere on their body. Then his body turns lightly sideway after the hit.

My own kendo is very vertical as I don't really push foward when I hit (I stop often after hiting the target), I sometimes get points, but in a lot of case if I would have a more horizontal kendo I think would get more points.

Curtis

25-05-2007, 01:29 PM

I pulled the tape out and took a look. There is nothing to tell me where to get it. It is a series I think. I have two parts and I do not know if there are more or how many.

The clip on youtube is not from the tape I have since the music is different. However the clip is part of the tape and tape just happened to be at that very spot.

As to the point it is very clearly an ippon. The kensen is late. It is a point yesterday, today and tomorrow.

kendokamax

25-05-2007, 02:35 PM

As to the point it is very clearly an ippon. The kensen is late. It is a point yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Ok, I still have difficulty to see it that way, but thank you.

ejstans

25-05-2007, 04:31 PM

[QUOTE=Curtis;258121]I pulled the tape out and took a look. There is nothing to tell me where to get it. It is a series I think. I have two parts and I do not know if there are more or how many.「/QUOTE]

There is a DVD set available from Tozando (http://www.tozandoshop.com/product_p/qu_spd8602.htm) described as containing "vintage films of His Majesty's Inspection Kendo Tournament held in 1929, 1930 and 1940" that could possibly be what you are talking about?

Curtis

25-05-2007, 10:35 PM

[quote=Curtis;258121]I pulled the tape out and took a look. There is nothing to tell me where to get it. It is a series I think. I have two parts and I do not know if there are more or how many.「/QUOTE]

There is a DVD set available from Tozando (http://www.tozandoshop.com/product_p/qu_spd8602.htm) described as containing "vintage films of His Majesty's Inspection Kendo Tournament held in 1929, 1930 and 1940" that could possibly be what you are talking about?

If not the same documentary, it is certainly the same video as what I have. There is a great nito match on it.

Neil Gendzwill

25-05-2007, 11:36 PM

The kensen on the mune was late. But even if the kensen gets there on time, if it is weak and the men is clear and strong, we can give the men. In this case it's a clear point, as Curtis said.

D'Artagnan

25-05-2007, 11:45 PM

Watched the video...

boring:tired: its worse that the hachidan taikai...

to expand on what is my opinion it was three mins of staring at each other, finished with a crappy men cut...