trapping the shinai under the arms

[alexpollijr]

Does anyone know if it's hansoku to keep trapping the opponent's shinai under the arms to ruin the zanshin of a Do hit? It happened a lot to me last night. this moron did it all the time in standard jigeiko.

I just want to make sure that it's a foul or it's a valid resource.

- Alexandre

[Danny Boy]

I dont know how it relates to judging rules, but you're right, it is moronic.
Next time he does that to you, just wiggle it about in his arm-pit, that'll teach him ;).

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'm not sure about the penalty part. I suspect if he holds on too long it will be a penalty. But if he's dropping his elbow to block and catching the shinai momentarily, I don't think so. Your doh just wasn't good enough in that case.

[alexpollijr]

Not the infamous elbow-block. The shinai positively hits the datotsu part of the do but when it's sliding through he traps it with both arms, not allowing me to get through.

- Alexandre



I'm not sure about the penalty part. I suspect if he holds on too long it will be a penalty. But if he's dropping his elbow to block and catching the shinai momentarily, I don't think so. Your doh just wasn't good enough in that case.

[Curtis]

In tournament it would be a foul in an obvious case. In keiko it is really bad form and does not negate a good doh in either case.

[Old Warrior]

The more annoying issue for me is the use of elbows to block. It's annoying because I don't like to crack my opponent, who then whines like its my fault. It is particularly irksome when they then call a "time out" to rub their elbow and make me seem like an ogre. The next time someone traps your daito under their arm, give them a rap with the shoto on the men. It's my way of letting them know that I don't think that's right, but if the rules don't matter "here's one more for me".

[Curtis]

Blocking the doh with the elbow is a matter of the shinai. If the person were using a bokken or sword you would not see this. Even with armor on the elbow you would instead learn to block, deflect or evade properly. Of course the sword is a moot point since no one runs out and fights duels. It comes down to how the person views the shinai. Sword or stick? The correct view leads to correct kendo.

I wear an elbow pad part of the time. This is because students will come to hit doh even though there is no opening. I can counter this with kensen or block it. They may not get the whole message that there was no opening if I do that. It is part of the learning process on how to correctly block and execute doh.

Trapping is immediately corrected.

[Kendoka]

Blocking the doh with the elbow is a matter of the shinai. If the person were using a bokken or sword you would not see this. Even with armor on the elbow you would instead learn to block, deflect or evade properly. Of course the sword is a moot point since no one runs out and fights duels. It comes down to how the person views the shinai. Sword or stick? The correct view leads to correct kendo.

I wear an elbow pad part of the time. This is because students will come to hit doh even though there is no opening. I can counter this with kensen or block it. They may not get the whole message that there was no opening if I do that. It is part of the learning process on how to correctly block and execute doh.

Trapping is immediately corrected.

It seems to me that he doesn't really understand that the shinai is "the sword", imagine if he gripped a sword with his arm against his torso!

In shai it would be a hansoku, if the shinpan perceived it as a deliberate action.

Richard

[Nishi]

All blocking is poor kendo, except when it results in an oji-waza. "Blockers" are very easily led and opened, have fun and terrorize them.

Trapping the shinai under the arm is not poor kendo, its dirty kendo. Im not sure how hansoku would result from this, if it looked like it would cost me the bout, i would raise my right hand whenever my shinai became trapped (how do you nito lads do this with a shoto in your hand), or i would start playing dirty kendo as well, pushing out of bounds, rough-housing (within reason).

We have a very established nito player here in the Northwest of England (trained in Japan), and his answer to trapping the shinai is very primitive...he strikes the bicep very hard with shoto(he is old school), or shoto-tsuki(almost took my damn head off), this withdraws you from the fight mentally, and makes you release his daito, as well as not want to fight.... he is challenging!