Anybody in Kumdo or Kendo heard of this??

[Kaoru]

Hi everybody,

I am going to be ordering bogu, and I e-mailed our Kumdo teacher, asking him what he thought of either 5mm or 6mm stitch, and that I had been thinking about getting it from bogubag.com, after having looked at a lot of different places. Well, he wrote back and said to get the economy(?) bogu, and that any bogu or other things such as uniform and shinai had to be bought through the dojang or I would not be allowed to use it in class. So, I told my mother, and she had my sister-in-law, whom he has never met and doesn't know she is my relative, go into the dojang to meet him today, and she asked him abut Kumdo, and then after asking everything else, asked him about buying bogu after 3 months, and if she could buy it anywhere she wanted, besides the dojang. He told her that she could buy it from any place she wanted to, and did not have to buy from him.

So, now I am very unhappy with him. I have not said anything yet, anf my mother says to go buy it anyway, because the stuff I want, is Japanese made. I do not want to buy Korean bogu-no offense meant to that. I just have been reading here and at other places that Japanese bogu may be made better. Not only that, there is a particular 5mm set I really want at bogubag. I do not like the idea of being told I have to purchase stuff through him or nobody else. I think it is impolite.

What do you all make of this?? I have never heard of such a thing. All I did, was ask his opinion on which stitching is better to get, and I get this go buy an economy set, reply. That isn't what I had asked him, either.

So, any ideas?? I think I will go buy it anyway, because I'd rather be well protected and safer than be sorry. I am very small, and want good bogu.

So, what do all of you think about this?? Is this even right for him to try to make me buy from him? Now, I would not have minded him suggesting I look at what he had to offer, but then allowing me to buy where I wanted if I didn't like it, but this? No. I haven't replied to him yet, because I don't know what to say. Maybe I approached the thing wrong? I still want to buy what I found.

Thank you very much for reading my post.

Kaoru :)

[LNGUYEN]

Some of the profit dojang do the same thing or may be there is some standard or uniformity your teacher want in the class, same colors, same materials?

If you are still young and want to buy the bogu you want, blame it on your Mother when you brought the bogu to dojang :laugh: My mother bought this for me and I can not do anything about it :) :)

[Old Warrior]

At our dojang the Master, fits you, orders it and you buy it from him. Did I pay too much for too little - probably. Do I care - not really. All of the students have the same basic stuff. Without cost I have been given everything from a shinai case, numerous tenegui from competitions all over the country and even shinai. The bottom line for me is the quality of the instruction, the attention I get and can I afford it. The cheapest price on everything is never the real issue.

[LNGUYEN]

At our dojang the Master, fits you, orders it and you buy it from him. Did I pay too much for too little - probably. Do I care - not really. All of the students have the same basic stuff. Without cost I have been given everything from a shinai case, numerous tenegui from competitions all over the country and even shinai. The bottom line for me is the quality of the instruction, the attention I get and can I afford it. The cheapest price on everything is never the real issue.

So Old Warrior, your school is only for the rich kids and people without financial limited like you. Teacher and bussiness man don't miss very well in the sam glass. If the teacher has to live on his teaching, charge the fee, I don't have problem with that, I just don't like to have to buy things from the teacher to be able to attend the school. If I am not allowed into the dojang because I wear the bogu not from him, then I am better go somewhere else or don't go anywhere at all.

[sminki]

Kaoru,

Keep in mind that unless you're buying hand-made stuff, there's really no difference between Japanese and Korean made bogu. You'll just pay more for the Japanese made due to the higher labor costs. Many of the machine made bogus sold in Japan are imported from Korea anyway. So I think you're just a bit misinformed in making the decision that you definitely want a Japanese made bogu (unless you're going for the $4000+ hand-made bogu).

Anyway, buying bogu through one's dojo/dojang is a fairly common practice. The senseis usually have a place that they constantly deal with which drives costs down for the student. Plus, the senseis usually know more about sizing and such so you're more likely to get a better fit. Although I have seen places where the sensei actually marks up the price of bogu as much as 100%, but that's quite rare.

Although we are not all rich lawyers like OW, I generally agree with him about placing more importance on quality of learning than the lowest cost. I do see how you can be offended a little bit by getting different answers from your teacher though. I have never seen any teacher actually forbidding the use of equipment unless it was bought at that dojo/dojang.

[supernils]

Kaoru,
If you are absolutely positive that you didn't misunderstand what you teacher said I think he's way out of line. I would not trust a person/teacher who's trying to rip me off like that. If I had a choice I would join another dojo.
Take care.

[kendomushi]

If you're in the US, and the teacher wants uniformity, and you are paying for classes, any requirements to buy certain armor or through the school, etc should be spelled out in the contract. If there is no contract, get what you want. As long as its in good repair he has no grounds to complain.
However, you might want to first ask him why he thinks you should buy through the dojo and not on your own, plus show him a description of what you plan on getting. He may have some valid points for you to consider.

[xvikingx]

I would have to agree with what kendomushi says. I suggest just going back and talking to him straight up about it. (leave out the part about your sister in law though) If you have to beat around bush with your sensei, then I dont think its worth being there.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you're in the US, and the teacher wants uniformity, and you are paying for classes, any requirements to buy certain armor or through the school, etc should be spelled out in the contract. If there is no contract, get what you want. As long as its in good repair he has no grounds to complain.
If it gets down to the point where you're arguing with your teacher over what he's contractually allowed to control in his dojo, it's over. How on earth would you train in an atmosphere like that? What makes you think he'll help a student much in class after such a confrontation?

Like it or not, many kumdo dojang are run as businesses not hobbies. I think you just have to decide whether you like the school and the teacher well enough to fork over the dough. If not, say your goodbyes and hook up with the local kendo dojo if there is one.

[Old Warrior]

"I think you just have to decide whether you like the school and the teacher well enough to fork over the dough. If not, say your goodbyes and hook up with the local kendo dojo if there is one."

Good point and practical advice. My only addition would be that I always try and do business with local merchants, who I know, and who stand behind their products and give superior service. I won't travel to the "Big Stores" just to get the lowest price. If you like your teacher and can afford the freight, I'd go with flow. If you have a doubt - try somewhere else.

[Neil Gendzwill]

My only addition would be that I always try and do business with local merchants, who I know, and who stand behind their products and give superior service.

In the kendo market there isn't really such a service though is there. Your local general martial arts supplier probably has shinai but that's about it. Your instructor selling a few sets of bogu each year to his students is a different matter IMHO. The closest thing to local you have in the US really are the fellows with the internet/mail order business that is at least located in the US. If you deal with bogubag, e-bogu, eguchi, swordstore and the like at least you can communicate in english with someone who knows what they're talking about and can hopefully solve problems a little better than the guy in Korea or Japan can.

But I digress (shocker I know). In our club I handle bogu purchases and everyone goes through me. If they like they can do it themselves but most people don't have the experience to do that. Even if you want to purchase from one of the online businesses, it makes sense to consult your instructor for guidance.

[LNGUYEN]

Many places help students to purchase equipments through their schools with the purpose of cutting the cost and get the right things but do not force the students to go through their dojo, dojang. If the teacher force the students to purchase equipments through him, then I smell some dead fishes there.

[Kaoru]

Hi,

Supernils, no, I didn't misunderstand him. Wish I had, but I didn't. He sent it in an e-mail. Also, yeah, I'm going to politely do as Kendomushi and xvikingx suggested and just see what he says. It can't hurt. But, I also don't like being told that if I don't get what he has, then I can't use it. That's just wrong. Etiquette right out the window, there. And, I don't like lack of etiquette. Oh yeah, xvikingx, good idea to leave out the part about my sister-in-law. And, lnguyen, I know what you mean...

Gendzwill-sensei, why would there be a confrontation? It is only the person who was irrational who would even start one over this. And, if a teacher is as unkind to treat a student that way just because the student didn't buy the stuff they had access to, they should not be even teaching. I don't like arguing, and I'm not about to let it go that far. Arguing is silly. A teacher is a teacher because he/she likes to help a student learn regardless of what they buy or don't buy from the teacher. If he decides to behave this way tonight, I will be ashamed for him, since he would be the one to lose face over something petty. Since I got two conflicting statements from him, that being in the e-mail he sent me and what he told my sister-in-law, he already has lost face. Ah well. I will see what he says tonight.

And, I have no other option for a dojo. Kendo is two hours away, and I can't drive myself there. That's the nearest dojo around besides the one I go to now.

I'll tell you all what he says...

Kaoru

[Neil Gendzwill]

why would there be a confrontation?
The suggestion was to take him to task over contractual obligations. If you as a student have to go to your instructor and say "look here, in section 4, subsection 2, paragraph c it says I can buy my equipment wherever I want", that's a confrontation. You're forcing him to do something he's already told you he doesn't want to do - you said he was clear in his e-mail to you. You'd be technically in the right but from a relationship POV it's already on the way downhill. If you bring up the fact that you did a little digging through your sister-in-law, that's only going to make matters worse.

I'd suggest bringing the matter up as if you didn't understand what he told you. "I'd like to purchase bogu set X from this company, do you approve of this model for me to use?" kinda thing. This gives him a chance to clarify, and maybe explain the reasons for his policy. If he shoots you down, you have to decide if you want to practice badly enough to overlook this. Because if you force the issue any further, I think it could go badly.

[Kaoru]

Hi everybody,

Gendzwill-sensei, I see what you mean now. I didn't understand what you meant, at first. Thanks for clarifying it.

Ok, you guys, this is what happened. I just got back a half hour ago from practice, and you guys won't believe what he said. I was sure surprised. He made the first move in class, to discuss the bogu. He first showed me what the different stitchings on the school bogu. Then, I said quietly and politely, that I liked a particular set at bogubag.com. I forgot I'd already told him about it in my message-but I remembered that I didn't tell him which particular 5mm and 6mm sets I had been looking at. So, he said he'd looked at them and knew which one I was taling about-again impossible, since I never told him which I had looked at, and he said that he still won't let me order it from there. I looked at him and quietly asked why. He said it was policy, and it had to do with profit-he actually said that. Dishonorable that is. Anyway, then I said politely and again quietly, that I felt that it wasn't fair and that my Dad would prefer me to get that particular set. (Both my parents think I should get the one I like. I don't know why I just didn't say parents. I may not live at home, but my parents care what bogu I get.) So, he says to me, "Then maybe I should ask you to leave." in front of the class. I just LOOKED at him, and replied in my same even polite way, "I feel that would be unfair as well, sir." and then dropped the subject. Oh, I was seething, but buried any emotion whatsoever that I had regarding it. So then, he made this announcement to the entire class saying that anything such as shinai, bogu, tenugi, hakama, etc., had to be purchased from him, or we couldn't use it in class. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life! Now, I can be upset... I'm not in class anymore, neh?

Oh, I might add, there was no way to get him into his office to discuss it, which I think, was just as well. I don't know if he has a temper or not. I wouldn't know what to do one on one, because I am not an agressive person outside of practice.

So ok, what I'd like to ask him now, is what happens if a new Kenshi comes from another dojo. Do they have to get all new bogu, etc. This is stupid, neh? Oh, how I wish I could grow new eyes and get to drive. I know where I'd go. The sad thing is, I really love Kendo(Well, I'm doing Kumdo because it was the only thing available.), and the nearest dojo is two hours away. Sigh... :(

Anyway, this is what the result so far is. What do you guys think about it??

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add, that I never got a chance to ask him about the bogu he had, because of the way he approached me in class. The idea flew out of my mind right then and there. I had intended to ask, to be polite.

[Old Warrior]

I always talk with my money. If the situation is too aggravating - QUIT.
If the proprietor is too dogmatic and money hungry - QUIT. Then write him and tell him why. Suggest if he changes his policy you will reconsider. Another approach is to ask around and see if others feel the same way. I'll bet if a dozen students were to leave over this issue - he would reconsider. But then, do you really want this jerk as a teacher?

[JSchmidt]

So ok, what I'd like to ask him now, is what happens if a new Kenshi comes from another dojo. Do they have to get all new bogu, etc. This is stupid, neh? Oh, how I wish I could grow new eyes and get to drive. I know where I'd go. The sad thing is, I really love Kendo(Well, I'm doing Kumdo because it was the only thing available.), and the nearest dojo is two hours away. Sigh... :(

Anyway, this is what the result so far is. What do you guys think about it??

Kaoru

Check out the other dojo first and see if you like what you see and from there make a choice.
It would also depend on the quality of the teaching at your current dojo, but (no offense) that could be a bit harder to judge at your stage...one thing is for sure, is that currently nothing is gained by pushing the issue further with him. (However tempting that may be).
It's not an easy situation and I can see your dilemma. I would be tempted to tell him to stuff it and possible take it up with your local paper, but then you would never be able to practice there again.
OTOH, if you really do want to continue practicing and the other dojo is not really practical, take a look at the bogu is selling and see if the prices are reasonable and if so, jump ship when the opportunity arises (and then make a stink about it :D). It would suck having to do that, I know.
Talk it over with your parents, consider the alternatives (maybe other martial arts?) and think about it for a couple of weeks.

Jakob

[Neil Gendzwill]

Kaoru, I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well. I think you just have to balance how well you like kendo against your opinion of your instructor and his policies. Also evaluate whether you'll be able to mend your relationship with your instructor, should you decide to return. One thing I would advise you to do is to visit the other dojo, even though you can't attend there. I think you need to see how other clubs operate just for comparison's sake. I note there's dojo in Minneapolis, St. Paul and Rochester in your state.

[xvikingx]

Kaoru,

that is most unfortunate. I hope this doesn't sour you all together about kendo. I would agree; go visit the other dojo for comparison. Also getting some feed back from some of the other students couldnt hurt. I dont know about ganging up and quitting though... that sound more like a dojo mutiny.
The only other thing I could suggest is, maybe if it is reasonable (and possible) just buy your gi and shinai from him so you can practice there, untill you are able to go another dojo. Then you could choose your own bogu. Then again, from what you describe this guy sounds like a dick and may hold a grudge.

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Hi kaoru

Commiserations ! - this is a broken situation whatever way you look at it
your options are clearly limited as the guys have explained above
though this kind of this does happen (obviously) it is rare (maybe not so obvious)

What are the numbers involved ? - in any case 5 or 6mm armour isnt anything special and isnt worth too much upset

If you really cant train elsewhere then youre stuck for now - give in and smile sweetly, learn as much technique as you can and learn ettiquete and any philosphical content from someone else because anything youre going to get from this guy is probably not worth having

as you can see from this thread the wider kendo / kumdo community is not like this one guy & I visited the guys at Rochester whilst on a business trip - they were great.

best of luck !

[sminki]

Kaoru,

This now smells. Believe me I once belong to such a dojang for approximately a year, paid $800 for a set of bogu which would otherwise cost around $400. This was all because I absolutely trusted in the teacher there. He was not unlike your current guy. Mainly a TKD instructor by trade who had expanded to kendo. Let me give you my two cents on the situation.

My guy was a TKD 9 dan or something and kumdo 5 dan. I admit that the kendo(kumdo) basics taught there were good and that it gave me a good basis to continue my training at my current dojo. But this guy was after profits (not that I'm against profitting the dojo/dojang I belong to, but when the mark-ups are as much as double the original price, it's getting a bit outta hand.). Not only that, he was into expanding his business, so he had about 3 dojos at one point and virtually left the location I belonged to without a legitimate instructor (shodans who practiced at that locations taught class, hell, I was 3 kyu at the time and sometimes I led class). This guy also "encouraged" people to pay in advance for 6 months and 1 year. Despite the fact that I still had credit for months more, I packed up and left and found a true teacher. It was somewhat stressful and frustrating situation though. I was lucky to have other dojos nearby.

Anyway, I have nothing against dojo/dojang making profit. If I have a great teacher, I'll do my best to see that the dojo profits. I also have nothing against paying in advance. In fact, I prefer it as it make me not have to worry about paying someone on a monthly basis. These aren't the issues in and of themselves. It's when these things are blatantly done at no regard for the students such as in my previous dojang and in your case that it becomes a problem.

I'm usually careful about blasting anyone, especially if I don't know them well. But I've looked at your dojang's website and it smells of my previous dojang (with possibly even lesser quality of kendo than my previous dojang). The floor at the dojang is that bouncy floor designed for TKD. It's clear that this guy is expanding onto kendo from his "formal" trade of TKD to make some additional bucks. And what better way to make a lot of profit than expensive bogu? Promotion test fees (every three months or so) and bogu are where the money's at. And despite claiming to be 4 dan, this guy looks like McDojo. I'm sorry.

Once again, nothing against buying stuff from the dojang/dojo. Nothing against anything as long as the teacher is good. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of faith in your guy here, especially after seeing the website. Ask him where he got his kumdo dan. If it's not Korean Kumdo Association or All U.S. Kendo Federation or any federation recognized by the IKF, he should have no business teaching kumdo/kendo as this forum knows it.

Lastly, as many people say, you might want to just suck it up and put up with it as long as you can in the interest of at least establishing some basics in kendo (provided that it's legitimate kendo). In that case, you should still ask what quality bogu he would get for you (6mm, 5mm, 3mm, 2mm, etc.) and compare his price vs. the Internet retailer prices. At least that will give you an idea of how much profit he's making from you.

It's an unfortunate situation. I assure you that most kendo/kumdo instructors are not like this at all, but you seem to have somehow landed a real character here. I admit that I may be reacting a bit harshly to this guy as I have once belonged to a dojo not too unlike yours. Anyway, hope you can work this situation out.

[sminki]

Kaoru,

I just looked at the website again. Your instructor's TKD credentials (although there's no mentioning of his dan level) seems somewhat legitimate, as he seems to have gotten certificates, etc. from Kukkiwon, which is like a central operating center for the TKD governing body. However, he seems to have made his own TKD association and I don't know how to feel about that.

As per his kumdo practice, there's no mentioning of any dan, no mentioning of who the people are that he trained with, etc. Korea has a fairly small kumdo community and most kodansha (higher dan senseis) are known by their names and have recognizable faces (at least to me who actually follows kumdo community in Korea). I didn't see anyone that I'd recognize (albeit that I don't know everyone who does kumdo in Korea). Plus, I get nervous when there's no mentioning of any federation/governing body, people's dan ranks, etc. and when people are just referred to as "grandmaster" such and such. Lastly, reading a bit into details, you see that kumdo picture which he took with the "grandmaster" in Korea? You see the sword stand with two swords? KKA, which is the IKF recognized kendo body in Korea would not display double-edged Chinese sword along with a katana like that. That could mean your guy is associated with other kumdo federations not recognized by the IKF such as Hankook Kumdo or Haedong Kumdo. While nothing may be wrong with such organizations, keep in mind that it's different kendo/kumdo than what this forum practices and any similarities are immitations.

Ask him what kendo federations he's assiciated with. Even if he's gotten his dan elsewhere, if he's associated with All U.S. Kendo Federation, I guess it is okay. If he tells you he's got his own kumdo association, watch out.

[Nishi]

So, I told my mother, and she had my sister-in-law, whom he has never met and doesn't know she is my relative, go into the dojang to meet him today, and she asked him abut Kumdo, and then after asking everything else, asked him about buying bogu after 3 months, and if she could buy it anywhere she wanted, besides the dojang. He told her that she could buy it from any place she wanted to, and did not have to buy from him. (*snip*)

This is shameful....some one has been lied too, you or your sister-in-law! Find out if his rank is legit first, because if hes not IKF reckognized then your wasting your time anyway. Also find out who else in your do-jang has had to buy bogu from the club and who was given the vito to purchase outside the club, i think you'll find a double standard here.

You have the right to learn kendo without being treated like consumer cattle, remember Kaoru, kendo has nothing to do with money, this is a rare case, dont be discouraged you'll pervail if you really want too!

I will think some more on the issue, you have a real situation here.

[Old Warrior]

I'll be perfectly honest with you. I firmly believe that I paid too much ($500) for my bogu (bought from the Master). But, at the time, I didn't have a clue what I needed, what size I was, how it was supposed to fit, or even where I would look to buy it. If my instruction was poor and I was thinking of quitting, the cost might be a source of irritation. However, the degree of pleasure I have gotten from the last 10 months of learning/training is immeasurable. Whatever the "extra" amount I paid, it was well worth it, as the equipment is serviceable, it fits and it has allowed me to train. I now know the value of better stuff and where I can get it. If I ever acheive shodan, I will treat myself to some higher quality stuff.

[Atama]

Kaoru
Your sensie is a total disgrace (not to mention a money grabbing wanker) the role of a teacher is to nurture and aid a student in learning, not force them into buying their product and definatley not to embarass a student in front of his class mates.

It is unfortunate that you don't have another dojo to move to and I truly hope this dosen't put you off kendo. I personally would probably write to my kendo association regarding this matter however from what I've read your situation seems to be common place in kumdo dojangs. I don't think it matters where you get your bogu the important thing is it fits and its the set you want.

I can imagine how pissed you must have been being ask to leave, I probably wouldn't have had your composure. The dilema is, in the word of the clash "should I stay or should I go".

P.S I guess there is a difference between kendo and kumdo after all ...kendo is about learning without discrimination and kumdo is for the rich who don't mind paying over the odds because they are told to.


Lisa Westhead

[James]

I have no experiences of Korean Dojangs, run like businesses, and there are two sides to every story; but if it is as you describe I think as Neil said above; after this it is going to be difficult of you to respect your teacher, and it doesn't sound like he respects you.

If the relationship has broken down I would just leave and find somewhere you are happier. Unfortunately you have geographic problems, but I would rather travel 2 hours and train with someone I respect. It may seem extreme, but there are plenty of people who get up at 5am to travel across Tokyo for asa-geiko in a dojo because they like the teacher there.
You need to trust and respect your teacher.

[sminki]

Atama,

I don't know why you insist on continuing to make such discriminating remarks against "kumdo" as opposed to "kendo". I thought I cleared these issues (at least partially) for you, but apparantly not. This is a dojang involving an American teacher whose kumdo/kendo legitimacy is clearly in question and I, who have dealt with numerous kumdo/kendo dojos both in Korea and the U.S. can state that this clearly isn't the norm, but for in certain isolated cases involving very profit-driven greedy people (who, mind you, exist everywhere). It's unfortunate that one or two isolated incidents like this can muddy the water for kumdo/kendo.

[Old Warrior]

"P.S I guess there is a difference between kendo and kumdo after all ...kendo is about learning without discrimination and kumdo is for the rich who don't mind paying over the odds because they are told to."

Now, now, young lady, let's calm down and get a grip on logic. An idiot "kendo" teacher in Jerkwater, USA doesn't represent the world of Kumdo. And the rich are not to be pilloried because they spend their money in a lawful manner. Kendo, is marvelous, healthy pleasure and there is no reason to be associated with one who would pervert its essence. If that means that our poster will have to go elsewhere or wait to begin his study - its not a tragedy.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The problem for Kaoru is that he has a visual impairment that prevents him from driving. So the 2 hour travel time is more of an impediment than it normally would be. He has a hard choice to make but if his instructor continues to treat him badly his choice will have been made for him.

Someone referred to a webpage for this school, I haven't seen a link posted. What's the url?

[sminki]

http://www.tae-kwon-do.bz/pages/725734/index.htm

[Kaoru]

Hi everybody,

I really appreciate how helpful you all are. That made me feel better about this whole thing.

Atama, I don't know how I did maintain my composure. Somehow, I managed to seal off all emotion. I had been in seiza putting on school bogu when this teacher and I had the conversation. So, I had to look up at him. A bit intimidating...

sminki, I asked him what federation the dojang belonged to, and he said it was the International Kumdo-Kumbup Federation. I asked him if it had a website, and he said no, and that it was "directly out of Korea." His exact words. I've never even heard of it, and he also said that that one guy, Master Chan Joo Jung, on the site doing the cutting-remember which one? is the head of it. So, it sounds like it isn't legit to me. Oh, and I wrnt back to look, and I see what you mean about the two swords. It looks silly. I agree with you. It should be displayed with a wakizashi, and not a Chinese sword. He isn't a member of any of the standard legit organisations. Oh yeah, and I think you're right about the
level of quality of instruction. Even though I've only practiced for four mobnths, I can see bad technique in his cuts, and not to mention the bad footwork. I've been going to a lot of Kendo websites lately doing some checking. He also never practices with us-just demonstrates and tha's all. I only found out that most sensei do practice with their students when I discovered this website. He never cleans the dojang floor, either, and each week, I have to fight the urge to ask him for a broom to sweep the floor. I'm afraid that if I did ask him for it, he'd get insulted. If I wore hakama and went into seiza on that floor, I'd feel pretty insulted because I respect my uniform. I use my TKD Gi form when I used to practice it a long time ago, and still hate to kneel on that floor in it. Oh, something else interesting... ALL the Kumdo students except me, take his TKD classes. I never will, because every time I watch the black belt class before Kumdo practice, I want to laugh because their technique is so bad, so I end up not watching so I don't. I hold a blue belt in ATA Tae Kwon Do(Before they changed the belt levels a little, so all I had left was red, before I could earn my black belt. I got really lucky... the teachers I had there were just amazing, and etiquette was a very integral part of class.) so I have a good idea what they do not know. And, like you described in your first dojang, he has so many students in his TKD classes, it isn't even funny. Too many, in fact. It's dangerous to have so many in one class. He also has another dojang in another town not far from mine. Anyway, I think that makes me stand out because I don't take TKD like everybody else. He tried once to get me to and I turned him down saying I didn't have time. Anyway, thank you for looking into this for me. I appreciate it!

Oh, believe me, guys, I'd love to tell him what a disgraceful and dishonorable person he is, and not only that, he lied to me and my sister-in-law. He really lost face and he is shameful indeed. He just has no respect or honor, and that to me, is just shameful and appalling. But, I won't because it won't solve the issue and besides, being unkind to him, is not worth it. I won't be like him. How am I supposed to respect him now? I lost my respect for him yesterday.

I wish very much to go to another dojo, because I love Kendo. Well, at least I get to go to the Kendo seminar in Charleston, South Carolina this October. My parents are going with me, because they love the place, and while they sight-see, I get to learn something! Anybody going there? It's the 11th and 12th. Check the AUSKF site about it. So, ha, ha, I'm ordering bogu anyway, because this is stupid.

I may stay until November, when it will be time to pay for the next three months, and then leave, so I can practice foe the October seminar that I am not telling him about. Also, there is a new kid that sticks to me like glue. So, I'd feel bad about leaving this new kid who is so shy it isn't even funny. He's 15, and copies everything I do. I feel sorry for him because of this guy now.

Anyway, I'd love to get a new Kendo dojo up here. What a shame... Oh well. My sister-in-law did say that she might take me down to the other dojo in Minneapolis to see what it was like. It IS a long drive though... I hope we can go. It won't be this week though. I hope we can. If not, oh well. I know it's a long drive. I'd beam myself there if I could though!

I'll tell you guys if I get to go.

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

I did a little research on the web. Do what I did... type in "Master Chan Joo Jung" (The guy doing tameshigiri on the Kumdo page on my teacher's site.) and you'll find this link:

http://www.mikeleestkd.com/tkd/korea2002.htm

If you notice, the 3rd photo down is nearly identical to the one on my teacher's site. And, if you go look at the Master's credentials, it only talks about TKD and not Kumdo, even though he is supposed to be 4 dan. No federation is given for Kumdo.

Guys, go to the link sminki just put up and you can see who this guy is that I have been learning from.

I hope the link I just put up, is a hyperlink. If not, just paste it into your browser.

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Hi everybody,

I'm a girl. Ha, ha! I'm very small, and only 5' tall. And, I look extremely young for my age, too-around 13-15.

Kaoru :)

[sminki]

International Kumdo Kumbup Federation? Directly out of Korea?

I have never used profanity in this forum, but am about to. That shit is more like directly out of someone's ass. There is an International Kumdo Association, which "trains" and "develops" "authentic Korean kumdo". That might be what he belongs to. Note that this International Kumdo Federation is largely made up of TKD professionals who have little or no background in real kendo/kumdo and is, in my opinion, Mickey Mouse bullshit organization. Actually, saying that is an insult to Mickey Mouse.

You might as well leave now, as I now have NO confidence in this guy's kendo (highlighted by the fact that he does not practice with his students). In addition, his association with International Kumdo Kumbup Federation directly out of Korea means that any and all rank/dan will not be recognized by kendo/kumdo schools.

One might say that "hey, this guy just belongs to a different federation. So what if the dan isn't recognized by any IKF (International Kendo Federation - the rightful governing body of kendo/kumdo as we know it)? Martial art is martial art." While there's a degree of truth in that statement and I don't mean to automatically discredit other sword arts which is not IKF related. But in this case, he claims to do kumdo and employs use of kumdo/kendo terminology as well as equipment, etc. which is a clearly a ripoff/imitation situation and it is better not to learn anything at all rather than to learn from a ripoff/imitation type school.

[LNGUYEN]

Hi Kaoru,

Good for you that you love Kendo. In my dojo, there is a guy used to come from St. Louis that is about 5 hours to Chicago. There is a Sensei driving from Indiana. I have to drive 50 minutes to the practice. I know we have the access, you don't. However, I just try to cheer you up and tell you that if you try hard to find your driver, the reward is unbelievable. If you can't go to the dojo 3 times a weeks, 1 time a week is ok too, or even 1 every other weeks is still marvelous. You still can learn alot more than you learn right now.

You are a girl? holy cow, a girl with a shinai? that is dangerous. Just kidding.

Lan Nguyen

[sminki]

More I think about it, the more it upsets me that shit like this is going on. Obviously this is a case of someone simply trying to profit using kumdo/kendo. Since he cannot get the necessary credentials from a real kumdo school, he'll simply go through the fast track process set up by these fake organizations (the fake organizations typically set up the fast track to kodansha process in order to rapidly gain popularity). I wonder if he even knows how many years he would have to train with a legitimate school to attain 4 dan. Assuming that you can reach shodan in 1 year which I believe is very aggressive, it would still take 8 years and from what I can see, he "trained kumdo" since September 2002.

Ugh...

[LNGUYEN]

Hey Sminki,

Chilled men, what you need now is stop reading this thread, going out side for a fresh air. After that if you are still pissed, then you can grab your monitor and throw it outside. It is even better if you challenge this guy and we will buy air ticket for you.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Judging by what you've said and what the website looks like, you're probably better off without him. If you can convince your folks to get you to Minneapolis every couple of weeks or even once a month, you're probably better off. You could then train on your own with what you're given on your trips. Alternately, you can find some other people who are interested and form a study group to practice together, supplemented by group trips to the dojo or possibly visits to Brainerd from your new instructor. If your instructor approves, maybe some instructional videotapes like the ones they're hawking at e-bogu could be of help.

[amatsuda]

Kaoru,

I haven't been practicing Kendo for that long so it's really not my place to criticize an instructor, so please consider this as just a few "observations" that I made just by looking at the pictures on the website.....

If you look at the top picture, the bogu is worn is incorrectly. The hakama is hiked up and the front is higher than the back; instead of the other way around. Also, the Men is tied incorrectly because the length of the strings after being tied is uneven.

In the other 'Mind, Body' picture, it is supposed to be a picture of someone striking men using fumikomi, but why is the left leg in front of the right? Even if the pic was taken just at the moment the left leg just happened to be in front incidentally, why would a Kendo Sensei put that up on the web as a representative picture of their dojo? Also, the guy on the left is wearing the men incorrectly...His Tenugui is sticking out the back...

The final observation that I see is that everyone in the pictures is holding the shinai in the "Shini-Te" or "Machi Te".

You may ask, What does this have anything to do with the quality of instruction? OR What do I wish to express with these observations?

My point is very simple....If your instructor cannot teach you the most simple and basic of things in Kendo, how can you expect him to take your Kendo to the next Level as well as take you (as a person) to the next level physically, mentally, or spiritually?

Just a thought....

amatsuda
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/sjkendo

[Kaoru]

Hi guys,

Thanks. You guys are so nice!! Lan, I am still laughing at your last post to sminki. That teacher(I hate the idea of calling him my teacher now.) better watch out, neh?? Ha, ha. I shouldn't think like that. It isn't nice. Oh well.

Hey sminki, I'm just as incensed as you are, except I can't seem to express it quite the same way... Although, I feel like it! I hope I don't just explode one day. ...since I sealed what I feel about it away. It keeps me from nailing him when I practice kata. Ha, ha... Ugh, he actually keeps calling thrusting, spearing. Last night I wanted so bad to say hey, it's thrust, not spear! I'd like to see him in shiai with a real Kendoka... It would be interesting... Oh, I am not going to do the grading at that dojang, either. I'm going to give him some kind of excuse why. I'd leave now, except I want to stay until the Kendo seminar. At least I will have people to practice with, what little I've learned.

Amatsuda, I looked at the photos after reading your post, and thanks. I neer knew any of that, and I've been practicing for 4 months now. Obviously, I didn't know all this, because he has never talked about it. I am wondering what else I don't know now. Sigh... But, I do know that you don't put the left foot out to do a proper Men, Stupid, really. Almost impossible, too. I just never noticed that before. But, I didn't know the other stuff. What is "Shini-Te" and "Machi Te"? I don't know what these words mean. And, you make very good points in your last sentence. Thank you. :)

Lan, thanks for trying to cheer me up. I really appreciate it. :) You did. You're right, even every other week in a real dojo is better than once a week at this "dojang" by far. I do love Kendo, so I hope I can somehow find a way to get there at least one time, to take part in a real class. I would just love it! I'd be so happy... I'd love to have a teacher that cared, and have one that didn't mind showing me thngs up close so I knew what was going on. Oh, yup! I'm a girl. That was funny!

Gendzwill-sensei, I didn't know one could form a study group. Interesting. It would be nice. Not sure about how to find people though... But, if I can do some major convincing, and get there a couple times a month, that would make me very happy, like I said above.

Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to reply to you guys.

Kaoru

[Jagaimo]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

I did a little research on the web. Do what I did... type in "Master Chan Joo Jung" (The guy doing tameshigiri on the Kumdo page on my teacher's site.) and you'll find this link:

http://www.mikeleestkd.com/tkd/korea2002.htm

If you notice, the 3rd photo down is nearly identical to the one on my teacher's site. And, if you go look at the Master's credentials, it only talks about TKD and not Kumdo, even though he is supposed to be 4 dan. No federation is given for Kumdo.

Guys, go to the link sminki just put up and you can see who this guy is that I have been learning from.

I hope the link I just put up, is a hyperlink. If not, just paste it into your browser.

Kaoru

I clicked on the link you have there and went to their Florida training pictures. Anyone want to explain the the shoes?

http://www.mikeleestkd.com/kumdo/kumdomemories.htm

[Neil Gendzwill]

Gendzwill-sensei
Just Neil please. Matsuda-sensei makes some good points about the website. I don't know why someone would let those photos be his main online presentation.

I didn't know one could form a study group.
It's a reasonably common thing in the west. Not everybody has easy access to an instructor, but many people live within a relatively easy driving distance, such as yourself.

If you get a handful of people together and are willing to act as the organizer, you can make something happen. You need to have an advisor (ie the sensei), and you should have him lay out a practice structure for you and give you specific things to work on until the next time you meet in person. Then you need to have one person act as the practice leader - this is different from an instructor. That person is has to take notes from sensei about structure and goals and then direct practice. It's best not to instruct too much except for those specific things that your advisor has told you to work on.

One issue with small groups is affordable practice space. You can sometimes get free practice space in churches or community centres. If that doesn't work out, raquetball or squash courts make fine cheap practice spaces for small groups that can be rented on as as-needed basis.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Doesn't the AUSKF help out with this sort of thing (setting up study groups)? Marsten-sensei? Matsuda-sensei? Bueller? Anyone?

[xvikingx]

What I find rather upsetting (just one of many things) is that this guy would stand over a 15 yr old girl and try to bully her into buying bogu. Kaoru I wish you the best of luck and I hope you will have the chance to train at a legit dojo someday.

[Kaoru]

Hi Neil,

Are you sure? I knew you were a sensei, so I was being polite... And oops, I didn't realise amatsuda-san is a sensei. I'm sorry...

Thanks for the information about study groups. Maybe sometime I can do that. First, I want to see if I can even get there. I'm making a wish...

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

What I find rather upsetting (just one of many things) is that this guy would stand over a 15 yr old girl and try to bully her into buying bogu. Kaoru I wish you the best of luck and I hope you will have the chance to train at a legit dojo someday.

Hi xvikingx,

I guess I didn't write it properly... I'm much older than that, by about 21 years, but I honestly don't look it. You'd see what I mean if you saw me. Nobody ever is able to guess that I'm over 14 or 15, and once in a while, I'll get 16. He talks down to me all the time even though he knows my age.(Probably doesn't believe me. Wouldn't be the first time that happened.) The class thinks I am around 14 or 15, too, and they pick up on how he talks to me. That's ok. I don't really care. He's done enough, so one more thing doesn't matter. And, thank you for wishing me luck. I appreicate it. :) I hope I get the chance, too.

Kaoru

[slidercrank]

Hi Neil,

Are you sure? I knew you were a sensei, so I was being polite... And oops, I didn't realise amatsuda-san is a sensei. I'm sorry...


Matsuda sensei is a 5th dan and has represented the US at the 10th, 11th and 12 World Kendo Championships. He was being exceedingly humble when he said, "I haven't been practicing Kendo for that long..."

[xvikingx]

Whoops, my bad. I misunderstood. Never the less, its outrageous no matter age or gender.

[James]

Kaoru,

kendo people in general help eachother out; visit Minneapolis and talk to people even if you can't attend regularly. There may well be someone that lives halfway who you could do some practice with, or who drives part of the way etc. You just don't know them yet.
I am not sure what the nature of your visual impairment is, but if you have overcome it to do kendo, I know you will overcome this distance thing.
When you go to the Charleston seminar talk to people about your stituation, kendo is a small community - you will get some good advice.
There are countless times I have managed to travel to a shiai etc. through the help of strangers (new kendo friends). And likewise we've have had a guy from Thailand who turned up to a shiai in London with no where to stay crash on our floor. As soon as you make the move your options will increase.
It will work out for you.

just get the hell outta that dojang.

[LNGUYEN]

Hi Kaoru,

be careful, all the boys here will try to bribe you for your picture.

[Nishi]

Hi Kaoru, after thinking about your situation a bit, i think your better off (as the guys have pointed out) on your own, or with a small group of like minded people....with seminars and a few well placed visits to your nearest (ouch!!) dojo, you could have all this behind you. Find a sensei and latch on (stay in communication), he or she will help you make the right chioces for your training.

I know that this isnt really fair, and it dosnt help that you are very enthusiastic, it must be torture when all you want to do is train and learn, this experience will be character building, and thats what kendo is all about. As for the extra time it will take you....there is nobody on this forum who has practiced the basics as much as they should (in other words, its never enough), use the time well and get a strong foundation of basics underneath you, see this as an oppurtunity.

All the best.

[Kaoru]

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for being so helpful and nice to me. I really appreciate it, and I am feeling better about the whole thing thanks to the positive comments you all have been giving me. :)

xvikingx, that's ok. And, thanks for what you said.

I promise you all I am leaving this dojang. Although, I am wondering if he will let me leave, since I already paid for the second three months in August, and that ends in the first week of November. I wouldn't want to make him angry. I will stay until October though just to have people to practice with for the seminar I'm going to in October, unless I get to go to the dojo in Minneapolis to train.

I got to talk to the sensei in Minneapolis today, and he seems to be a nice person. I hope he will turn out to be somebody I can look up to and like without being afraid. I woud like that! I might get to go watch a class this Saturday. He says he wants me to watch for the first class. If my parents and sister-in-law decide to help drive me, I get to go. My sister-in-law is trying to work that out for me. :) It's a long drive, so I don't know if it will happen, but I am really hoping! No more mean teacher then if I get to train there :)

James, that's a good idea. I never thought of that. Thanks.

Hai, Nishi, going to a new dojo would really be good. I'd be happier.
You're right... it isn't fair because what you said was all I wanted. I never thought this could be considered character building... Why? Oh yeah... about practicing basics, thanks for the advice. I will remember that.

Ahahaha! Lan, that was really funny!

Anyway, I'll let you guys know what will end up happening with the new dojo. Cross your fingers I get to go!

Thanks guys!

Kaoru :)

[taiwnezboi]

atama: Do you have something against Kumdo? I pay monthly fees to practice at my dojang, so are you trying to call my Sabumnim money-grubbing? My Sabumnim is well-respected by Kendo and Kumdo people and so is our dojang. We don't talk bad about Kendo so maybe you should think twice before talking trash about Kumdo. What happened to Kendo improving a person's character?

[Atama]

atama: Do you have something against Kumdo? I pay monthly fees to practice at my dojang, so are you trying to call my Sabumnim money-grubbing? My Sabumnim is well-respected by Kendo and Kumdo people and so is our dojang. We don't talk bad about Kendo so maybe you should think twice before talking trash about Kumdo. What happened to Kendo improving a person's character?

taiwnezboi- I'm calling your Sabumnim nothing, and maybe I'm guilty of generalising too much, however I have heard on 3 occasions of U.S kumdo ripping off its students. If it was kendo clubs in the U.S ripping off students and treating them in such a way as discussed I'd feel the same.

As for my charecter if you can judge that by a paragraph of text then your either a guru or slightly naive.

PS. Kendo has improved my charecter I used to be a real hot tempered bitch ...now I'm just a bitch.



Lisa

[sminki]

atama: Do you have something against Kumdo? I pay monthly fees to practice at my dojang, so are you trying to call my Sabumnim money-grubbing? My Sabumnim is well-respected by Kendo and Kumdo people and so is our dojang. We don't talk bad about Kendo so maybe you should think twice before talking trash about Kumdo. What happened to Kendo improving a person's character?

taiwanezboi,

while atama's assertion about kumdo was definitely wrong and uncalled for, you yourself are making a distinction between kendo and kumdo.

For the last time people, they're the SAME THING. Same rules, same governing organization, etc. Instead of saying "we don't talk bad about kendo" what you actually mean to say is that you don't "talk bad about Japanese dojos". You shouldn't be making a distinction between kendo and kumdo, as such misnomer keeps on feeding the mental division between Korean-based dojangs and Japanese-based dojos. As much as national sentiments come into play for Koreans (in general) about kendo/kumdo's origin, etc., the bottom line is that it is the SAME martial art. And everyday kendo/kumdo practitioners like you and I and others in this forum should be able to be free of such politics, federation issues, origin issues, etc. As misguided as atama's statement was (and it of course, must be corrected) you should not get so defensive about your school (yes we all know Mr. Chang was a member of the Korean national team. He's quite well-known in the kumdo circles in Korea) that it furthers people's misunderstanding between kendo and kumdo (which for the last time, is the SAME THING).

[Nishi]

I never thought this could be considered character building... Why?


Hi Kaoru, i think when you start training in kendo for a bit you'll understand what i mean a little better...alot of kendo drills are about never giving up, its more or less one of the first lessons that comes through, and it is character building, persistance in the dojo has a way of spilling into your daily life....you'll see.

[Kaoru]

Hi Nishi,

I think I see what you mean, a little. I guess I'll really find out like you said when I go to a new place. Thanks.

Oh, guys? Please don't argue. Be friends, please? Thanks.

Kaoru

[kendomushi]

Hi Kaoru,

I have been, and still am, away on business so I missed all these posts. I'm as shocked and dismayed as everyone else at your instructor. Whether his qualifications are valid or not, he has made it clear that budo is nothing but a means of wealth to him. That being the case he is not a person who should be teaching anything to anyone of this nature.
I hope you run, don't walk to any other means of training you can find. Your conduct in all of this actually shows you to be more qualified than he. Your character and heart are much more sincere, honest, and have a better understanding of budo than he has by far.
Good luck.

[liuzg]

I clicked on the link you have there and went to their Florida training pictures. Anyone want to explain the the shoes?

http://www.mikeleestkd.com/kumdo/kumdomemories.htm
Well,though i have been learning kendo for only 1 mth+,there is some observations besides that "shoes" issue~~~~~

Their "Chudan no kamae" seems a bit too high for kendo standard,its imaginary extention should reach the opponent's throat~~~~~~~

Their left foot is pointing outwards,the standard should be both to the front in kendo(unless they are newbies)~~~~~~Also the seperation of the feet is too wide,as the left toe of the foot should be parallel to the heel of the right foot,wif 1 fist distance away from one another~~~~~~

These observations are made according to the fundamentals i have learnt in kendo,since this is kumdo i cant say much abt it~~~~

[Jagaimo]

Well,though i have been learning kendo for only 1 mth+,there is some observations besides that "shoes" issue~~~~~

Their "Chudan no kamae" seems a bit too high for kendo standard,its imaginary extention should reach the opponent's throat~~~~~~~

Their left foot is pointing outwards,the standard should be both to the front in kendo(unless they are newbies)~~~~~~Also the seperation of the feet is too wide,as the left toe of the foot should be parallel to the heel of the right foot,wif 1 fist distance away from one another~~~~~~

These observations are made according to the fundamentals i have learnt in kendo,since this is kumdo i cant say much abt it~~~~

About the shoes, I was reading an issue of Black Belt and, as most magazines, there were advertisements. One of them, to my surprise, was advertising "martial arts sneakers".

I have never seen them or heard of them before and I am doubtful that many sensei allow them.

[Neil Gendzwill]

About the shoes, I was reading an issue of Black Belt and, as most magazines, there were advertisements. One of them, to my surprise, was advertising "martial arts sneakers".

I have never seen them or heard of them before and I am doubtful that many sensei allow them.
Many newer styles of punchy-kicky stuff train in sneakers. The martial arts ones are thin soled and light. The only reason I can think of letting shoes into a kendo class would be for someone with serious foot problems who needs orthotics. But it would be a pretty serious safety issue for the other students, I wouldn't allow it myself.

[amatsuda]

Amatsuda, I looked at the photos after reading your post, and thanks. I neer knew any of that, and I've been practicing for 4 months now. Obviously, I didn't know all this, because he has never talked about it. I am wondering what else I don't know now. Sigh... But, I do know that you don't put the left foot out to do a proper Men, Stupid, really. Almost impossible, too. I just never noticed that before. But, I didn't know the other stuff. What is "Shini-Te" and "Machi Te"? I don't know what these words mean. And, you make very good points in your last sentence. Thank you. :)

Kaoru

Matsuda sensei is a 5th dan and has represented the US at the 10th, 11th and 12 World Kendo Championships. He was being exceedingly humble when he said, "I haven't been practicing Kendo for that long..."


There are three terms used to describe how the shinai is being held:

Uchi-Te: Proper grip of the shinai (sheeee-nai) ..both hands are holding the shinai from the top correctly. This allows the person to effective strike and block with proper form and tenouchi.

Machi-Te literally means "waiting hands" it is when one of the hands is holding the shinai from the side..This means that person cannot effectively strike their opponent and they are in the defensive position to block...this happens most with the right hand..so the hand is positioned to pull back and block most of the time.

Shini-Te is "Dead Hands". this is where both hands are holding the shinai from the side or incorrectly and they cannot strike or block effectively...and the cut will be incorrect...

*My experience is limited when Compared to my Sensei, Sempai and peers, I am the youngest and least experienced of them all....and in fact, I was a late starter to Kendo. People like G. Harada,S. Hosokawa, Y.Onitsuka, M.Minami, S.Hamamatsu, T. Nishimoto, etc. were already practicing at the age of 4 or 5 and were already champions when I started Kendo at age 9.

amatsuda

[Curtis]

Mr. A. Matsuda. These people have no idea of your accomplishments in kendo because you are so humble. I was there when you won the U.S. championship. It was a study in smart, patient kendo backed up by excellent basics. Yes the others you mention are top kendoists as well. You always carry yourself with dignity. I suppose I'll be in trouble next time we meet for tooting your horn but I don't care.

Kaoru, if you would like to PM me I can give some details about how to get help in establishing a group.

[Neil Gendzwill]

People like G. Harada,S. Hosokawa, Y.Onitsuka, M.Minami, S.Hamamatsu, T. Nishimoto, etc. were already practicing at the age of 4 or 5 and were already champions when I started Kendo at age 9.
I should have been so lucky to start as "late" as 9. I was 22, and I guarantee you there are no national championships in the offing for me.

[Kaoru]

Matsuda-sensei,

Domo arigato gozaimasu for explaining the terms to me. I really appreciate it! I have much to learn, I see. You began when you were nine? You are really lucky!

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

WELL, HI EVERYBODY!

FIRST, PLEASE EXCUSE THE CAPITALS. IT JUST HAPPENED THAT WAY, BECAUSE I BEGAN WRITING THIS IN BITS AND PIECES OFF-LINE, IN CAPS, BECAUSE IT WAS EASIER TO SEE, AND I REALLY DON'T WANT TO RETYPE ALL THIS TO GET IT BACK INTO PROPER PRINT. THAT'S TOO HARD FOR ME. SUMIMASEN, KUDASAI.

ALSO, I'M SORRY I TOOK SO LONG TO LET YOU ALL KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING. I HAD TO WAIT UNITL THIS LAST SATURDAY TO FINALLY GET TO VISIT A NEW DOJO.

I JUST WANT TO TELL YOU ALL WHAT I HAVE BEEN UP TO, IN FINDING A NEW DOJO. I THOUGHT THERE WAS ONLY ONE IN THE TWIN CITIES, BUT I FIOUND ONE MORE. AND, MY MOM AND SISTER-IN-LAW HAVE SAID THEY WILL DRIVE ME TWICE A MONTH TO ONE OF THEM SO I CAN PRACTICE!

THE ONE ONE OF YOU TOLD ME ABOUT, IS THE MINNEHAHA KENDO CLUB IN MINNEAPOLIS, AND THE OTHER I JUST FOUND, IS THE HOKKYOKUSEI KENDO CLUB, WHICH YES, IS THE CLUB IN ROCHESTER, BUT I DISCOVERED VOSS-SENSEI COMES UP EVERY SATURDAY TO ST. PAUL TO TEACH IN THE MORNING. I ACCIDENTALLY FOUND OUT ABOUT IT ON THE MIDWEST KENDO FEDERATION WEBSITE. I HAVE TALKED TO BOTH SENSEI ON THE PHONE, AND I LIKE THEM BOTH. I AM VISITING BOTH DOJOS, AND I VISITED THE MINNEHAHA CLUB-COCHRAN-SENSEI'S DOJO-LAST SATURDAY. I'LL GET TO VISIT VOSS-SENSEI'S DOJO THE SATURDAY AFTER NEXT. THEN, I CAN TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THAT, AND WHAT DOJO I'LL END UP AT FOR SURE.

I APOLOGISE FOR THE LENGTH OF MY POST, BUT I JUST HAD TO TELL YOU GUYS ALL ABOUT THE PRACTICE. I WAS REALLY HAPPY... ANYWAY...

I WENT TO COCHRAN-SENSEI'S DOJO IN MINNEAPOLIS FIRST ON SATURDAY. IT WAS SO MUCH FUN! BUT HE SURE IS STRICT! I LEARNED A WHOLE LOT FROM HIM, AND HE EVEN LET ME PRACTICE WITH THE DOJO! WELL, HE SAID TO BE THERE 45 MINUTES BEFORE PRACTICE SO HE COULD WORK WITH ME ALONE FOR A WHILE. THE FIRST THING HE HAD ME DO, WAS SWEEP THE DOJO FLOOR. SO, I PROMPTLY DID SO. THEN, HE TAUGHT ME PROPER ETIQUETTE. WOW, I FOUND I HADN'T LEARNED HALF OF WHAT I SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAUGHT. AND TO ME, THAT'S BAD, BECAUSE ETIQUETTE IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. HE EVEN CORRECTED THE WAY I BOW. AND, LATER IN PRACTICE, I GOT REMINDED A FEW TIMES TO DO IT PROPERLY. I ALSO LEARNED THE PROPER WAY TO SIT IN SEIZA, I HAD IT AT LEAST RIGHT EXCEPT FOR THE FEET. OH, IT WAS ALSO THE FIRST TIME I PRACTICED ON A WOOD FLOOR. OH THE TOPS OF MY FEET DO NOT LIKE THAT! SITTING IN SEIZA ON THAT FLOOR WAS REALLY HARD TO DO.(BUT I DID IT!)

THEN, HE TAUGHT ME THE PROPER WAY TO HOLD THE SHINAI-I HAD BEEN DOING THAT WRONG TOO. AND HE THEN TAUGHT ME SEVERAL DIFFERENT MEN-UCHI SUBURI. HE IS VERY STRICT. WHAT A CHANGE FROM THE OTHER DOJO. I LIKED THE FACT THAT HE CARED. SO, IT SEEMS I HAVE TO GO BACK AND FIX A LOT OF TECHNIQUE NOW.

OH, I SHOULD MENTION HE WAS REALLY GOOD IN REMEMBERING TO SHOW ME EVERYTHING UP CLOSE IF I COULDN'T SEE WHAT HE WAS DOING, TOO. THAT REALLY MADE PRACTICE PLEASENT FOR ME!

WELL, THEN THE REST OF THE GROUP SHOWED UP, AND THERE WERE TWO OTHER BEGINNERS LIKE ME, EXCEPT THAT THEY'D BEEN THERE TWICE ALREADY THEREFORE THEY ARE MY SENIORS. WELL ALL DID STRETCHING, AND I LEARNED SONKYO, AND THE SECOND TIME I DID THAT, I LOST MY BALANCE AND TIPPED RIGHT OVER. THAT, I WILL HAVE TO PRACTICE, NEH?

THEN, AFTER THE SENIORS PUT ON BOGU, WE BEGINNERS PRACTICED MEN-UCHI WITH MOTODACHI. WHAT IS SO DIFFERENT FOR ME, IS THAT COCHRAN-SENSEI PUT ON BOGU AND WORKED WITH US, WHICH NEVER HAPPENED AT MY OTHER DOJO. THE SENSEI THERE, JUST WALKED AROUND AND WATCHED AND DEMONSTRATED THINGS, NEVER CORRECTING MISTAKES. I LIKED THAT COCHRAN-SENSEI PRACTICED WITH US. HE IS REALLY GOOD!

AND, HA, HA, VERY STERN, AS I SOON FOUND OUT. I MUST HAVE BEEN CORRECTED FOR THIS AND THAT AT LEAST 20 TIMES DURING PRACTICE. HE MADE UP IN ONE DAY, FOR ALL THE TIMES I OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN CORRECTED FOR BAD FORM THE LAST FOUR MONTHS! I WAS VERY GLAD OF THAT. I LEARNED SOMETHING FINALLY! HE DIDN'T MISS A THING, EITHER. I GOT ONE ETIQUETTE THING IN THE WRONG ORDER ONCE, WHEN I WAS WORKING WITH A SENIOR, AND I WAS NOT NEAR HIM, BUT HE CAUGHT IT ANYWAY. I WAS WISHING I'D DONE IT RIGHT AFTER HE CAUGHT IT. THEN, WE ROTATED A COUPLE TIMES AND FINALLY, I GOT TO PRACTICE WITH THE SENSEI. WOW, HE DID NOT MISS ANYTHING. I MADE TO DO A MEN CUT, AND I GOT PUSHED BACK THREE TIMES, AND THEN GOT TOLD EACH TIME, TAKE TWO STEPS, NOT THREE. I DIDN'T GET IT, BECAUSE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH SPACE IS TWO STEPS, BECAUSE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND DISTANCE. FINALLY, HE ASKED ME WHY I KEPT TAKING THREE INSTEAD OF TWO STEPS, AND I THEN REALISED THAT HE PROBABLY HAD FORGOTTEN I TOLD HIM I HAVE NO DEPTH PERCEPTION BECAUSE OF NO SIGHT IN ONE EYE. HE DID REMEMBER I HAVE REALLY POOR VISION IN THE OTHER, THOUGH. SO, I EXPLAINED AND THEN HE SHOWED ME HOW TO TELL MAAI-FINALLY!!! :D I FINALLY UNDERSTAND NOW, WHAT THE HECK THAT IS!

OH, AND THEN I GOT PUSHED BACK ABOUT SIX TIMES BECAUSE I WAS DOING WHAT HE CALLED A HOPPING MOTION INSTEAD OF SLIDING. WELL, THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE, SINCE I'VE NEVER BEEN ON A WOOD FLOOR TO PRACTICE. I'VE BEEEN PRACTICING ON TKD MATS, WHICH YOU CAN'T SLIDE FORWARD ON. I FINALLY GOT IT TO BE PASSABLE, BUT MY FOOTWORK STILL NEEDS LOTS OF WORK.

THEN, ONCE I FIGURED OUT BOTH THESE THINGS, HE LET ME PASS, AND WHEN I DID, I PASSED THE WAY I DID AT THE OTHER DOJO AND GOT TOLD NO, AND WAS PUSHED BACK TO TRY IT AGAIN. SEE, AT THE OTHER DOJO, WHEN WE HIT MEN, THE ONE DOING THE CUTTING VEERED OFF TO THE RIGHT, AND THE ONE RECEIVING STAYS PUT. WELL, I LEARNED THAT'S WRONG. EACH TIME HE TOLD ME TO KEEP GOING STRAIGHT AFTER CUTTING MEN, I'D ACCIDENTALLY FORGET AND TURN, AND HE WOULD THEN PUSH ME BACK. FINALLY, ABOUT THE FOURTH TIME, HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING AND LET ME PASS AND THEN HIT ME ON THE BACK WITH HIS SHINAI, AND TOLD ME TO STOP DOING THAT. I WAS SO SURPRISED I NEARLY TRIPPED. HE THEN TOLD ME TO CONTINUE, AND I REMEMBERED TO KEEP GOING STRAIGHT THAT TIME, HA, HA... OH, AND THE WAY MY OLD DOJO FOLLOWED THROUGH HOLDING THE SHINAI AFTER DOING MEN, WAS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOO, AND THE THIRD TIME I HELD IT INCORRECTLY WHEN FOLLOWING THROUGH, I GOT HIT AGAIN ON THE BACK. AFTER THAT, I TRIED EVEN HARDER TO FORGET WHAT I'D LEARNED AT THE OTHER DOJO. I MANAGED NOT TO GET HIT AGAIN THE REST OF PRACTICE, HA HA!

OH, AND THE SENIORS WERE REALLY GOOD AND WERE VERY HELPFUL. I LIKED THEM ALL! WHAT THE BEST THING WAS, THAT THEY ALL TALKED TO ME AFTER PRACTICE WHEN I SAID HI TO THEM. AT MY OTHER DOJO, NOBODY OUT OF THE 10, EXCEPT ONE LADY WOULD EVEN TALK TO ME FOR THE LAST FOUR MONTHS, EXCEPT TO SAY HI, IF I TRIED TO CONVERSE BEFORE OR AFTER PRACTICE. I NEVER FELT WELCOME THERE. SO, THAT WAS A GOOD CHANGE.

COCHRAN-SENSEI REALLY KNOWS A LOT, AND I LIKED HIM TOO, EVEN IF HE IS A BIT STRICT, BECAUSE HE WAS STILL NICE EVEN WHEN BEING STERN. MY MOM AND SISTER-IN-LAW CAME AND WATCHED THE END OF CLASS AND THEY GOT TO SEE THE BOGU PEOPLE SPAR WITH THE SENSEI. HE DID SAY THAT I BELONGED IN VOSS-SENSEI'S DOJO(HE'S IN ST. PAUL, NOT FAR FROM THE OTHER DOJO.) BECAUSE THAT DOJO IS HALF THE SIZE OF COHRAN-SENSEI'S AND I COULD GET EXTRA HELP BETTER THEN. WELL, I'VE ALREADY TALKED TO VOSS-SENSEI ON THE PHONE, AND I LIKED HIM A LOT TOO. I GET TO VISIT HIS DOJO AFTER THE KENDO SEMINAR, WHICH IS NEXT WEEK.

SO, I WAS REALLY HAPPY FOR THE FIRST TIME AFTER PRACTICE! IT WAS REALLY FUN AND I REALLY LIKED COCHRAN-SENSEI. I'D RETURN TO HIS DOJO ANYTIME.

WELL, AFTER THAT, MY MOM, SISTER-IN-LAW AND I WENT OUT FOR DINNER BEFORE HEADING FOR HOME, WE HAD A GOOD TIME. WE GOT HOME REALLY LATE, TOO. I WAS SOOO TIRED THE NEXT DAY! IT JUST WAS A LONG DAY FOR ME, BUT REALLY WORTH IT. :)

OH, AND THIS COMING TUESDAY, I AM TELLING THAT TEACHER AT THE KUMDO DOJANG I AM NOT RETURNING AFTER TUESDAY. I WAITED THAT LONG FOR A REASON. I WANTED THE DUST TO SETTLE, AND I WANT TO LEAVE NICELY AND POLITELY WITH NO CONFRONTATION. I'M JUST GOING TO BE NICE AND TELL HIM NOTHING BUT THAT I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO COME BACK. HIS PRIDE WILL REMAIN INTACT, AND I WILL GET TO LEAVE AND NOT DEAL WITH HIM ANYMORE.

WELL, THAT'S HOW IT WENT. SORRY AGAIN ABOUT THE LENGTH OF MY POST, AND FOR THE CAPITALS. THERE'S JUST NO WAY TO CHANGE IT ALL AT ONCE.


KAORU :)

[Shazzanzzz]

Best of luck!

[liuzg]

congrats~~~~~!!!
Anyway now u knew that what the previous dojang had taught was a pile of shit(from what i saw in their website u had provided,and even for a beginner like myself could see the mistake clearly),do ur best in that dojo,and came back to the previous one and beat ur instructor at it as a revenge~~~~!!!XD
Speaking of sensei,my sensei always join in the training despite his age(he has been training in kendo for 50+ yrs so u could guess his age), always correcting our posture(even the senior could easily made mistakes in the movement,i must say that kendo requires yrs of training to even get the basic correct),but in a amicable manner and always giving us encouragement~~~
While we dont sweep the floor,we do souji---mopping the dojo wif a peice of cloth~~~~
Wish u all the best~~~!!!

[xvikingx]

Hey Kaoru Congratulations!

I am glad to hear you found a few nice dojos and that you are going to continue kendo. You are really fortunate to have had that sensei spend so much time with you. Judging by your personality I am sure you already do this but, be sure to thank your sensei properly when they spend time with you and correct your form. Most people see this as knit-picking, you obviously do not. Anyways have fun and good luck!

[lwegerich]

Hi Koaru, that's good news. I very much appreciate your humble character. Keep it up.

I also learned to be more thankful to what I experienced at the dojo where I train. Good instructors and nice seniors. We laugh a lot before and after the training and take the training itself very seriously. I think this is the way it should be.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Kaoru, I'm thrilled to hear this all had a happy ending for you. It sounds like you now understand very well all the differences we have been telling you about. Congratulations, and good luck with your studies.

[Kaoru]

Hi guys,

Thank you very much! I can't WAIT to settle into a new dojo!

Oh yes... when I went back to the dojang on Tuesday after I had gone to practice with Cochran-sensei's dojo, I finally really understood all the differences you all pointed out. I was astounded! Honestly, very little of it was even correct, from what I could tell, after having gone to a real dojo. I appreciate you guys very much for all the advice and encouragement. :)

Hai, xvikingx, I did, and thanks for the advice, and I'll remember it. Oh, I was really happy that he took the time to correct my form. After four months of being ignored, it made me very pleased. I have a high respect for him, too.
Well, I go to meet Voss-sensei in two weeks! Next week-end, is the Charleston Kendo seminar. So, I'll let you guys know about going to Voss-sensei's dojo, when I go. Oh yeah, lwegerich, it really does make a difference when the sensei is nice and so are the seniors! It makes it more fun, amd more like one fits in.

Thank goodness, this is almost over. Tuesday I leave the dojang for good. :D

Kaoru

[liuzg]

Hi guys,

Thank you very much! I can't WAIT to settle into a new dojo!

Oh yes... when I went back to the dojang on Tuesday after I had gone to practice with Cochran-sensei's dojo, I finally really understood all the differences you all pointed out. I was astounded! Honestly, very little of it was even correct, from what I could tell, after having gone to a real dojo. I appreciate you guys very much for all the advice and encouragement. :)

Hai, xvikingx, I did, and thanks for the advice, and I'll remember it. Oh, I was really happy that he took the time to correct my form. After four months of being ignored, it made me very pleased. I have a high respect for him, too.
Well, I go to meet Voss-sensei in two weeks! Next week-end, is the Charleston Kendo seminar. So, I'll let you guys know about going to Voss-sensei's dojo, when I go. Oh yeah, lwegerich, it really does make a difference when the sensei is nice and so are the seniors! It makes it more fun, amd more like one fits in.

Thank goodness, this is almost over. Tuesday I leave the dojang for good. :D

Kaoru
Yay~~~!!!And Kaoru learns kendo happily ever after~~~~~:D
By the way hopping instead of sliding would cause injuries to ur knees in the long run,pls be careful~~~~

[kendomushi]

Welcome to our world Kaoru. :)
I hope you have a very long and happy stay with us.

[LNGUYEN]

Happy to you Kaoru. Try to practice until the time you are allowed to put on bogu, then you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just kidding. Last weekend, we, the beginner were practice in bogu and I got hit in the head from one big guy that I see light from somewhere. That light sparked in my eye that is so beautiful. Later, I found out because I am 1" shorter so I see thing at different angle now :laugh:

[Kaoru]

Hi!

Thank you very much guys, really. And, thanks for the welcome kendomushi-san. I know I will be happy doing Kendo for a long time now that I will have a good sensei. :)

liuzg, hai, YAY!!! :) And, hai, I will be careful and do proper footwork.

Thanks Lan. Hahaha! Are you ok?? Be careful neh? :) I can't wait to be allowed to wear bogu, because it will be fun! (You're funny... :D )

Kaoru :)

[Kaoru]

Hi everyody,

Well, I left the dojang for good after practice Tuesday evening. I decided leaving a note was best...and I really didn't feel like talking to him face to face, anyway, because I wasn't sure how he'd take it. So, after I finished changing, I had intended to hand the note to him, but found I couldn't because he had already begun the TKD class, so I ended up asking him permission to leave it on his desk, which I was glad to be able to do, and I then left. I just wrote that I
I was not able to return, and thanked him for teaching me, and that was all.

So, this is OVER. :D I am really glad!! I begin in Voss-sensei's dojo next week-end, and I may just start a new thread to tell you guys hope it went. Who wants to come back to this one?? Hehe... :D

Thank you everbody for all the advice, help and encouragement. I really appreciated it! (I'll be back after the seminar. I leave later today.)

Kaoru :)

[Rularn]

Hi,

I just found this site today and got interested in the thread. Glad to see it turned out well for you, Kaoru. Kudos to you for sticking through it all.

I'm surprised to see senseis here as well. But having them here just makes it all better. Good job.

R

[A P]

Here is a web site. It has all the kendo dojo location in the USA.

http://www.kendo-usa.org/statedojolist.htm

I hope that there would be some new dojo around your area.

good luck. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

[Kaoru]

Hi Rularn,

Thank you. I appreciate it. :) Yeah, it is really nice that there are sensei's here, I agree!

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Hi Chanon,

Which dojo are you going to? There are two-one in St. Paul, and one in Minneapolis. And, thanks for the link, anyhow, I appreciate it! I go to the one in St. Paul, now. Both dojos are very good.

Kaoru

[mystic_kendoka]

man this is completely the opposite of my teacher, with her, im only paying $150 a year. she's a godan and really nice. everythins so dam cheap my parents thought what they payed was per month... i asked her once y everything's so cheap and she said that she didn't need money, she does kendo teaching as a hobby, wat she really wants is for kendo to be a well-known sport in belgium

[A P]

Hi Chanon,

Which dojo are you going to? There are two-one in St. Paul, and one in Minneapolis. And, thanks for the link, anyhow, I appreciate it! I go to the one in St. Paul, now. Both dojos are very good.

Kaoru

Hello Kaoru

How are you doing? I am doing okay. With just about everything.

I am planning to go to Minnehaha dojo. I went to check it out last Saturday.

And it was soooooo Cool, that I decided to join ASAP. However, I will have

to work out my schdual with the place I work at first because of time

conflict, but it will be in two week from now. Next week there is no class

because sensei and other student will be busy getting ready for a ternament.

After my Fall semester end, then I will able to go to the dojo 3 time a week.

Yeahhhhh..........

not thing will stop me from going to kendo. Not even the managers. ^_^

[Andoy]

Whoa....I've read this thread from start to finish and i'm really glad things worked out for you in the end Kaoru. It's a shame that some poor individuals exploit kendo/kumdo for money. But you were persistent and good for you! I hope you enjoy proper kendo/kumdo and we'll all be there rooting for ya!

And from looking at the URL's posted it's really a joke. Although the TKD mats are pretty cool cos it wont hurt if you do improper fumikomi! Hahaha! But nevertheless that's not proper kendo. The shoes are a joke! I'd be pretty ticked if i met this guy. Man, I sure hope he reads this thread. He's degrading kumdo.

Anyways, your thread has been inspiring. Your persistence and patience should be a model for people(not only kendoka)!

-Andoy

[Andoy]

oh haha and another thing....we should flood this guy with emails redirecting him to this thread and telling him how his dojang is degrading the martial arts it is teaching. maybe, just maybe he'll think twice about teaching "kumdo" or teaching other martial arts at all!

[crabbi]

Hi Kaoru

I have just read through this thread for the first time... and I cannot believe that you had to go through all of this!!!

I have exchanged a number of posts with you... enough to repect you as a highly ethical and caring person... you should not have had to have this poor disrespectful treatment... I am furious.

Well, judging by the dates on the posts, this all happened a year ago and you are still here and a very active participant in the threads.... so I can only hope that your experience of Kendo since those unfortunate early days has been a great improvement....!

I think that your attitude is incredibly honourable and that you should be very proud of yourself... Well done... and long may your enjoyment of Kendo continue...

I also think that the supportive advice and empathy from the other Kendoka at all levels of experience is humbling and reassuring...

All the best to you Kaoru-San...

cheers

crabbi

[Hisham]

I was just casually browsing the forums when i saw this thread ,got intrigued by the last posts and read the whole thing ,got angry cuse of that fraud abusing bastard that calls himself a teacher and what you had to go through cuse of him, i m really happy for ya cuse your love for the art shows for that you deserve the best :)


If i get to go back to Canada ,i'll definitely visit Mr Gendzwill's dojo
Many good people on this board :old_man:

[Kaoru]

Hi Crabbi-san and Hisham-san,

Thank you very much both of you, for your kind words. I'm really glad I changed to another dojo find out what Kendo really was. I don't regret it at all, and love my new dojo.

And Minna-san,

Again, I really appreciate the support everyone here gave, as well. That really helped a lot. :) Thanks again minna-san for all the help and support. I couldn't have known what was right or what to do without the help of everyone here.
*seiza rei*

Kaoru

[ShinKenshi]

Hi Kaoru,

Just read through all that you had to go through when you started out and holy crap, that guy really didn't know what he was doing. Based on what you have been writing, it sounds like he's only in it for the money and not really interested in whether or not his students learn correctly. Quite frankly I'd be in favor of going over to one of his "practices" with my club's senior students and sensei to show him what real kendo is. But that's not in the spirit of kendo so we'll just push those thoughts to the side *wink* *wink*.

I practice down in Northfield during the school year so I don't know how far you are from there but if you ever are in the neighborhood, feel free to come and practice with us. Our sensei trained in Japan for a few years and his wife is our naginata club sensei. She's also a yondan in kyudo and I think her husband is a sandan (I'm not sure since I don't practice kyudo and don't really talk to them about much else other than kendo). They're pretty much the reigning authority in Northfield when it comes to kendo, naginata, and kyudo. So yeah, feel free to come and visit and for that matter, anyone visiting Minnesota and is near Northfield can come and practice.

[Sepiraph]

Did you realize that this thread is almost two years old and the last reply was last year?

[ShinKenshi]

Did you realize that this thread is almost two years old and the last reply was last year?
Yeah but I just thought I'd chip in my two cents in anway.

[Kaoru]

Hi Kaoru,

Just read through all that you had to go through when you started out and holy crap, that guy really didn't know what he was doing. Based on what you have been writing, it sounds like he's only in it for the money and not really interested in whether or not his students learn correctly. Quite frankly I'd be in favor of going over to one of his "practices" with my club's senior students and sensei to show him what real kendo is. But that's not in the spirit of kendo so we'll just push those thoughts to the side *wink* *wink*.

I practice down in Northfield during the school year so I don't know how far you are from there but if you ever are in the neighborhood, feel free to come and practice with us. Our sensei trained in Japan for a few years and his wife is our naginata club sensei. She's also a yondan in kyudo and I think her husband is a sandan (I'm not sure since I don't practice kyudo and don't really talk to them about much else other than kendo). They're pretty much the reigning authority in Northfield when it comes to kendo, naginata, and kyudo. So yeah, feel free to come and visit and for that matter, anyone visiting Minnesota and is near Northfield can come and practice.

Hi!

Wait a minute... There are only two AUSKF(All US Kendo Federation) recognised dojo in all of Minnesota, and one is the Minnehaha Kendo Club(My current dojo) and the other is in Rochester. Our St. Paul dojo is on hiatus at the moment. But a new group just began(And hopes to become a member of the AUSKF soon.) at Carlton(Sp?) College, South of St. Paul with Stephan Voss-sensei, the sensei in Rochester, mentoring the group.

Is that your group?

Thank you very much for the invite! But, unfortunately, Northfield is way too far from where I live. Bummer...

hehehe, Thank you very much for the kind thoughts. :) To be honest, I have recently been wondering what would happen if I went up against them when I got into bogu... I keep wanting to sneak down to the dojang and peek in and watch to see just how different things are from what I have since learned. I'm so bad for thinking this... *guilty* hehehe... I think I should keep my distance though...

Kaoru

[ShinKenshi]

Yup, the Carleton Colelge group is us. Maybe one of these days we should get all the Minnesota groups together for a state-wide mini taikai or something.:)

[Mugu]

Hi!

Thank you very much for the invite! But, unfortunately, Northfield is way too far from where I live. Bummer...

Kaoru

I'll take you there when I go :p (Just beware of my black metal and speed) :D

[kendoindia]

hello dear friends, if the teacher guides what to buy as per the students pocket size its quite encouraging, so if he does not do so then find another place to practice, & I will recommend another place to get economy priced bougu thats Pro-Budo supplies (they make for many famous Japanese suppliers ), if you want more details of them can feel free to contact me thru e-mail or phone at kendoindia@yahoo.com (kendoindia@yahoo.com) # 0091-9885044250

[Kumdo-Star]

KAORU :) RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charuzu]

KAORU :) RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes! Yes she does! Horay for Kaoru-san!!!

ヽ(*≧∇≦)ノ

[njridlers1]

I thought I could shed some light on the mikeleestkd website and the questions about Kumdo. His rank is in TKD from the world tae kwon do federation. He is a 7th degree. When his "grandmaster" moo yon yun became aware that for any of his "master" tkd students to become ranked as "grandmaster" tkd students they are required to be master instructors in 3 different arts, he simply promoted all of his high ranking students to 4th degrees in Kumdo and Hapkido. he has under him now "grandmaster students" which is big when he goes back to Korea.

I would encourage ALL of you devoted Kumdo students to drop him and any other tkd kumdo imposters an e-mail. Just do some googel search for Mike Lees tkd in Minnesota.:bandit:

[kartoffelngeist]

How many times can one thread be brought back from the clutches of thread death...

[Neil Gendzwill]

This is the last time.