Going up to the Sensei After Class [Archive]

Yowai

10-09-2003, 02:11 PM

aru-ma

10-09-2003, 02:29 PM

Your dojo is way too strict unless the sensei is over 50 and is Japanese. Is your sensei a foreigner? Foreigners tend to overdo the traditional parts in any Japanese event since they didn't grow up in Japan therefore have no idea what tradition is.

Careful there, personally I've never met a non-japanese sensei that overdo things, although what you said made sense, I call it over compensating.

as for going up to your sensei after training do it anyways, who knows he might have some pointers for you even if you didn't do jigeiko (spar) with him, just because you didnt spar with your sensei doesn't mean that he wasn't looking at you, it is also a good chance to ask your sensei about any questions that you might want to ask.

Yowai

10-09-2003, 03:19 PM

Doji Jotaro

10-09-2003, 03:24 PM

Me, I've been doing kendo for no more than two months, and I've just always gone up to the top of the room and listened and talked during the post-training discussion. It's important to know what sort of things lie before you on your path, I guess.

John W

10-09-2003, 04:15 PM

I think you should line up and bow anyway-whether you had a fight with sensei or not.
Even just to say thank you for the training and who knows what pearls of wisdom they may give you.

To ask maybe a moments shame, but not to ask and remain ignorant is a life long shame. ;)

qpuppy

10-09-2003, 08:09 PM

Saying foreigners have no idea about Japanese tradition was a wrong thing to say. What I meant to say is that foreigners do not have the social knowledge acquired by spending their childhood in Japan, therefore have wrong impressions on Japanese tradition. The most abused elements are bowing, ossss, (and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss etc) and formalities.

Question!!!!.... what is going up to the sensei after class and have a quick review by the sensei have to got to do with Japanese tradition?
Spending time with the family in Japan has nothing got to do with Kendo... Going up to the sensei after training regarding if you have or not jikeiko with the sensei, and thanking them (like what Aru-ma said sometime he or she will give you some pointers)... this is got to do with respect. Everything thing in kendo is all got to do with repect. It has nothing got to do with traditional!!!!

The club where I train... after the training... (after the formal rei etc etc... ) all members would go up to the sensei and sit down and listen to the review of the train that night... and then after the review then it's the time to say thanks to the people you have jikeiko with... and exchange pointers/receive advice from your sensei, senpais, and even kohais.... Like I said before... it's all got to do with respect!

Another question~~.... Do you even know what "Oossss" means :tired:

kendokamax

10-09-2003, 08:53 PM

So far what I have seen done in Japan is that you only go thank the people that you fought with and maybe the important people in special ocasion where you were invited to a practice etc..
In my club, in japan, students always go to the sensei they fought during the practice. The Sensei give pointers and advices to all of them, then they thank eachothers. Im not too sure but I think the 4th year students get the same thing, the kohai(s) go to the 4th year students they fought and thank them. I never go thank the 4th year student because I dont fall into the kohai/senpai system, so I just go to the senseis.

Before going to Japan I almost never did that (we dont do it in my dojo in canada), for some reason I hate bowing in seiza face to face to someone (done in group its ok..).

I think it is up to every dojo how they do it. You just need to addapt to how they do things where you train. even if it doesnt feel right. The worst is doing things the way you want, with disergard to everyone else in the practice you joined.

btw
I think its offensive (I felt offended(spelling?)) to use the term foreigners in that situation. This is kendo-world! not kendo-japan!

that was my 126 yen ! damn!I could have buy a good ice cream at Seven Eleven!!

Charlie

10-09-2003, 10:28 PM

Forgive me but is your sensei Korean? The kumdo teachers may have different habits than the kendo teachers.

Anywho, in my dojo and at the Detroit dojo we all go up and bow in seiza to each teacher or sempai on the other side of the lineup. If sensei or sempai has anything to say, he'll usually say it then. This is of course after general comments to everybody.

"Domo arigato, Tagawa-sensei."

"Hai, domo. Eh, Cha-ri, you need to be sure your hands are not coming too far down." (Demonstrates.)

"Hai, thank you, sensei."

"And you, Eric, use your left foot more."

Etc.

sminki

10-09-2003, 11:18 PM

Saying foreigners have no idea about Japanese tradition was a wrong thing to say. What I meant to say is that foreigners do not have the social knowledge acquired by spending their childhood in Japan, therefore have wrong impressions on Japanese tradition. The most abused elements are bowing, ossss, (and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss etc) and formalities.

Couldn't agree more. It absolutely drives me up the wall when people who are not Japanese "osssss". Also, when non-Japanese people kiai like older Japanese senseis (Although technically, kiai is a very individual thing, this still bugs me. I'm probably getting myself in trouble by saying this though.) I feel like saying "Hey man, have you even been to Japan?"

BTW, Charlie, you should probably say "Domo arigato gozaimasu" vs. just "Domo arigato". That could be a bit more formal/respectful.

Lastly, as long as you've trained under the sensei for a fair amount of time and know him fairly well, I think you can go ask for pointers when you feel you need it. I think that holds true for both Korean and Japanese dojos.

Charlie

10-09-2003, 11:23 PM

Thanks. What do you mean by:

Also, when non-Japanese people kiai like older Japanese senseis

?

Like a deep, Toshiro Mifune roar, or...?

Jerry Wellbrock

10-09-2003, 11:55 PM

I train at the Northern Kentucky Kendo Club part of the East Central US Kendo Federation. After Class everyone goes up to the ranking Senseis and sits is seiza bows and thanks them. Even the 5th and 6th dans will bow to the 7th dan before sitting themselves for the remaining students to greet them. It is not important if you personally trained with that individual that class or not, only that you show respect and thank all the instructors who showed up to either help with class or to be training partners. Often it may not be a training point that you recieve but perhaps an invitation to train with them another time or at another dojo etc.,

As for "OSSS" or "Ous" This could be another thread. I have heard that it could be a contraction of "Onegaishimasu" and that its use may have started in the Japanese Navy. Sort of like "Aye-Aye". I have only seen or should I say I usually only hear "Ous" commonly used in Karate Classes and usually outside of Japan. It is used as an affirmation and is used as a common response to almost any question or statement to denote agreement. Also used when greeting other karateka. I have not heard it used in kendo or iaido. Any other thoughts? :old_man:

sminki

11-09-2003, 12:13 AM

As for "OSSS" or "Ous" This could be another thread. I have heard that it could be a contraction of "Onegaishimasu" and that its use may have started in the Japanese Navy. Sort of like "Aye-Aye". I have only seen or should I say I usually only hear "Ous" commonly used in Karate Classes and usually outside of Japan. It is used as an affirmation and is used as a common response to almost any question or statement to denote agreement. Also used when greeting other karateka. I have not heard it used in kendo or iaido. Any other thoughts? :old_man:

How's it going in Kentucky? Last year at Chicago, there was a really impressive Japanese 6 dan from Kentucky. He was really good...

Anyway, I've heard "osss" in context of greeting other kendoka (although I never use it and think that such distinctly (and somewhat informal) Japanese method of greeting should probably not be used by anyone who's not a sensei or anyone who's not lived and trained in Japan (and have gotten naturally accustomed to such greetings) for a long time. Some shodan/nidan people at my dojo do that sometimes and it bothers me. Just my opinion.

Charlie - like I said, I'm gonna get myself into trouble here, but what I mean by "older Japanese sensei" kiai is things like "men-da", "men-dare", etc. involving any attachments of additional syllables at the end of a kiai. I have a sensei who emphasizes clean and proper kiai and myself prefer clean (non-repeating, i.e. no "kotekotekotekote") kiai, so I'm probably biased, but I do admit that kiai is a personal thing.

Nishi

11-09-2003, 01:42 AM

If you are a guest at the dojang i would go to the teacher and offer a quick "thanks for having me", if he wants to give pointers he will. If its a teacher visiting your club, i would go up and say" Its been a pleasure having you here" if he wants to give pointers he will.

But at my own dojo where i train with my instructors on a regular basis at the begining and end of class we do the whole "sensei gotto ni rei"(sp?) thing...I know to go up to the instructors when im seeking additional advice, mabye due to a grading, the rest of the time its just a thanks for having me, or a thanks for coming out!

I think the rest of this thread almost went silly.

mingshi

11-09-2003, 02:08 AM

I never go thank the 4th year student because I dont fall into the kohai/senpai system, so I just go to the senseis.

Not sure about the proper way, but I go up to anyone who hav free practice with me on the day -- even the kids who try to escape from me :D as I learn from everybody.

Just wish by very rare chance there will be some verbal advice from sensei/senpai... Sometimes it is annoying when you walk out of the dojo keep wondering what you have done wrong (er I know I should know better by myself but...)

Cheers.

Old Warrior

11-09-2003, 02:18 AM

"As for "OSSS" or "Ous" ... I have only seen or should I say I usually only hear "Ous" commonly used in Karate Classes and usually outside of Japan. ... Also used when greeting other karateka."

I began the study of Shotokan Karate in 1966 in a very traditional school in NYC. I can state with certainty that when you bowed, other than when beginning kumite (sparring) you were told to say "oussss". It was not used as a general assent, "hai" was required.

swrdply400mrela

11-09-2003, 07:36 AM

Koori

11-09-2003, 10:20 AM

As Charlie mentioned tradition at Detroit Dojo has been you go to each sensei after practice and bow in seiza in thanks. I am a beginner and I am not in bogu yet, but each sensei spends at least some time with us beginners, including Tagawa-san. :) I have noticed subtle differences in teaching and techniques between all of them. I like having the variety of instruction in class. Personally I have a couple of favorite sensei's to work with, Tagawa-san most certainly included.

-Koori

Ps
Charlie how goes fatherhood?-- email me!

Jagaimo

11-09-2003, 02:57 PM

I looked up the word Ossu in my Japanese Word Processor and I got two Kanji for it. The first has the definition of: push, stop, check, subdue, attach, seize, weight, shove, press, seal, do in spite of. The second kanji means to endure, bear, put up with, conceal, secrete, spy, and/or sneak.

So to me it would seem that the term Ossu could mean several things. For one, it could mean something similar to "ganbaru" (to persist), or upon striking an opponent it could be similar to a grunting noise or kiai. In a martial arts context, the dictionary says that it is used as a greeting, but not one that you would use to someone that sits to your right in kendo.

I takled to my Japanese friends about it too and they say its like a macho way of saying hello.

Hope this helps

aru-ma

11-09-2003, 05:10 PM

Jagaimo

11-09-2003, 06:27 PM

That would be osu, not ossu

the other "ossu" (the macho greeting one) can be compared to the english "Yo!"

One version of said word is made of two characters which I have described. The reason I spelled it with two S's was that in order to get the small "tsu" character in the word processor, I have to hit a constanant twice in succession. I thought I had put the subject as "O-small tsu-su" for further clearification as for the correct way to write said word in hiragana.

However, if you spell said word as "osu" in the dictionary or the program, You have a verb that shares the same first kanji that I described but it does not relate to martial arts. The definition it gives is as follows, "(vt) to push, to press, to stamp (i.e. a passport)."

As for the previous post I made on this subject, I was refering to the spelling with a small "tsu" before the "su" character.

Perhaps being that you are located in Indonesia you may have a better understanding of asian culture and the use of said word. Until girlfriend calls me from japan this weekend, my only source of information on this word is my electronic dictionary on my computer and various japanese friends on the college campus. So for the time being I shall admit that you are correct and I am misguided on the term.

But then again, in the context of kendo, either term would be suitable as one could be refering to the "stamping" of the foot as one strikes men.

Sincerely,

Potatos

aru-ma

11-09-2003, 09:34 PM

Perhaps being that you are located in Indonesia you may have a better understanding of asian culture and the use of said word. Until girlfriend calls me from japan this weekend, my only source of information on this word is my electronic dictionary on my computer and various japanese friends on the college campus. So for the time being I shall admit that you are correct and I am misguided on the term.

But then again, in the context of kendo, either term would be suitable as one could be refering to the "stamping" of the foot as one strikes men.

That damn small tsu! it annoys me to no end, especially when trying to explain things like this

FYI I'm living in melbourne at the moment, and my only source of japanese culture is:

1. my japanese teacher
2. like you, my japanese friends around campus
3. dictionaries

and being from Indonesia doesn't mean I have more understanding of the japanese culture than you.

I wish the Kanji script work here, it makes explaining stuff like this easier :( then again it might just be my OS

ben

11-09-2003, 10:06 PM

When I trained in Japan at Kagoshima University, the kendo guys there said "ous" which surprised me cos like eveyone else I thought it was mostly a gaijin karate thing. Maybe it was because this club shared a dojo with the judo and karate guys and they all seemed to hang out together a bit.

Personally I assumed the meaning of "ous" was that it was a supercontraction of both onegaishimasu and arigato gozaimasu, hence it covers all bases.

Re the bowing to sensei thing: I read an old dojo kun somewhere that stated upon ariving at the dojo you should acknowledge the most senior sensei before anyone else. Similarly, thanking him (or her) afterwards before all others. You should also be first to line up for jigeiko against the most senior sensei. I think this is actually a good kind of practice because it's always hard to front up like that: it's another way of putting everything on the line.

b

Charlie

11-09-2003, 10:12 PM

Is there a difference between OSU! and "yoosh!" or are they the same thing? I have heard of a kind of weary "yoosh" being exclaimed when undertaking a boring task.

BTW, fatherhood has been wonderful! The kid's already started int he martial arts: he's working on his kiai. ;)

I'll drop you a line, Hope!

supernils

11-09-2003, 10:35 PM

#1: Figure out for yourself WHY you bow to people.
#2: Act acording to #1

mingshi

11-09-2003, 11:57 PM

#1: Figure out for yourself WHY you bow to people.

AArrrgh!! It's a reflex :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:!!!

And I am replacing all the yes with "Hai~!" all the time!!! This is infectious!

kendokamax

12-09-2003, 12:27 AM

ossu is just a greeting just like konnichiha.
Only guys uses it. Girls just say konnichiha, or ohayou gozaimasu

It is used anywhere, not only kendo but in differnet clubs too.

I heard something like oissu too sometimes. but thats more like a joke i think?

dunno

ben

12-09-2003, 09:32 AM

Is there a difference between OSU! and "yoosh!" or are they the same thing? I have heard of a kind of weary "yoosh" being exclaimed when undertaking a boring task.

"Yosh!" is an exclamation used when an effort is required (like the European "hopla!"), like when lifting something heavy or, as you said, doing something uninspiring. Slightly different is "Yoi!", which is like a command "Let's go!", used sometimes by old sensei instead of "hajime".

b

xvikingx

12-09-2003, 09:46 AM

Is there a difference between OSU! and "yoosh!" or are they the same thing? I have heard of a kind of weary "yoosh" being exclaimed when undertaking a boring task.

There is alot of gender based words and phrases in Japanese. "osu" is a masculine way of saying hello. Its also informal, so I tend not to use it unless someone says it to me. Yoshi is somewhere along the lines of "great, alright, lets go". "Yoi" means preparation, when someone yells that they are telling you to get ready. I have never heard it used as substitution for hajime.

eKenshi

12-09-2003, 01:03 PM

Thanks everyone for the replies!

My sensei is actually Korean, so I guess I should have mentioned that. He is only 30 something (I think he has been practicing Kumdo for about 20 years), about a 4th dan rank is what some of the senior members guess. This is a university dojo in a little town called College Station, home of Texas A&M, which explains why we don't have a higher ranking sensei. Don't get me wrong though, I am very grateful of my sensei.

I didn't know if it was a faux paus to go line up in front of him after class if you sparred with him or not, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't just because he always gives everyone great advice. Therefore I go line up in front of him anyway.

Mike
how beautiful,the diversity of cultures being united by the graceful martial art of Kendo...Korean,American,and many others :cry:
i can say that every sensei is good in nature and wont refuse any questions about his lessons,it tried going to my sensei after training and i thanked him for his lesson on that particular day,well he just nodded. :cheeky:

Pokie

17-09-2003, 07:35 PM

Not sure about the proper way, but I go up to anyone who hav free practice with me on the day -- even the kids who try to escape from me :D as I learn from everybody.

Just wish by very rare chance there will be some verbal advice from sensei/senpai... Sometimes it is annoying when you walk out of the dojo keep wondering what you have done wrong (er I know I should know better by myself but...)

Cheers.

yeh that's right...sometimes you think a sensei wud not take notice of you cos you think there's too many kendokas and sensei will polly not pick up your mistakes even if he/she only sparred with you once...but you have to ask wen you sit infront of your sensei...like "so..any comments sensei ?"

normally sensei's eyes open wide and tell you things you never knew...especially bad habits...iv learnt so many things from sitting infront of sensei everytime after kendo..and most of the time..or 100% of the time it's sensei's comments that I work on..and 100% of the time it has a big impact on my kendo

im only 4th kyu by the way..sooo maybe that's why sensei can pick out things about me like the bright moon in the sky

tanueirin

07-10-2003, 05:01 PM

Sorry for going off on a tangent, guys, but this is sort of related to what's been discussed in this thread ...

I did 4 years of karate before starting kendo, and we would say "ous":
- while bowing,
- when being given instructions by a senpai, we would do this to show that we acknowledged and understood what s/he meant us to do,
- if our name was called (eg. during a grading) to show we were ready.

At the moment in kendo, I feel a bit disrespectful if I stand there and say nothing while our enthusiastic senpai tells us to do men cuts up and down the hall, or when he corrects our technique.

It's like when the poor teachers in school ask for students to volunteer answers and are met with deafening silence. So - I say "ous" - and I'm usually the lone voice in the wilderness (cue crickets chirping).

Would anyone be able to tell me the proper etiquette for kendo in these circumstances?

Thanks! :)

aru-ma

07-10-2003, 06:22 PM

you really don't have to say anything when your sensei/sempai instructs you to do something, just do it. however when they ask if you understand what he/she was explaining say "Hai".

Yowai

15-10-2003, 01:37 PM

When an athlete greets another athlete while exercising in the morning, ohayogozaimasu is too wordy.
Ohayogozaimasu->ohayo-su->osu

If you have to ask/look-up the proper time and way to say osu, you shoudn't be saying osu.

- while bowing,
- when being given instructions by a senpai, we would do this to show that we acknowledged and understood what s/he meant us to do,
- if our name was called (eg. during a grading) to show we were ready.

-Bowing to each other -> Onegaishimasu
-Receiving instructions -> hai (Saying osu here is a gross activity in ANY sport. Especially when osu is said more than once) If you want to be exceptionally masculine, say 'ha/hau' out of the depth of your lungs.
-Name is called -> hai

Jagaimo

15-10-2003, 04:01 PM

#1: Figure out for yourself WHY you bow to people.
#2: Act acording to #1

Thats deep man, real deep. I dont think I could have said it better myself.

Bane

22-10-2003, 08:41 PM

KeijockMuniz

22-10-2003, 10:55 PM

Never listened that Ossss, or Osu, or anything like that here... But yoshi is very common with our sensei, he says that when we finally do the things as he wanna us to do... like "yes, that´s right, now you are understanding".

We do the normal seiza, and usually he speaks of the entire class, not just one kenshi. The kenshis that want some personal advice, just go and bows to him, and he never refuses to speak with anyone. I do that only when I´ve got a new doubt, what is not common, since I´m trying to correct my older mistakes to move to my new mistakes and doubts :D

xvikingx

23-10-2003, 12:24 AM

Each time I have gone up to the sensei he dismisses me pretty quickly, in fact, during training he gets us to line up against the one wall and lines take it in turns to go to the other end, we do it quickly, and he keeps shouting, don't be last. Surely it is more important to get the form right, footwork and the strike correct before applying speed to it. I am very new to Kendo and the Sensei's lack of interest in me is quite disheartening. Perhaps, because I am new, he does not know if he should spend time with me because he thinks I might quit. There are quite a lot of new people who have started and they ask him questions as well sp maybe he is just trying to answer all the questions flying at him.

Perhaps I should be more patient :ditsy:

Bane, don't be discouraged. When I first started kendo, I thought my sensei and his two sons (sounds like a sitcom) hated my guts. That actually made want to work harder, because I hate quitting. It wasn't untill a couple of months afterwards when sensei finally recognized my existence. Now I think he is a great man and I look forward to training with him and his sons again is the future. Bane, ganbatte!

Sbres

31-10-2003, 08:53 PM

I've never hesitated to go up to my Sensei and ask him questions or listen to his after training 'chat'. Furthurmore, we all thank each other at the same time regardless of who we did keiko with (isn't 'fought' the wrong word to use?).
My dojo in Japan has only about 10 members and despite being different levels (i'm level 'crap') we do keiko with each other so it makes sense to thank each other.
Also, I have no experience of martial arts at home but it would seem that non-Japanese do tend to concentrate too much on the formalities of martial arts. I've never said 'Osu' in my life and don't intend to (except for getting a taxi in Nagoya) and although my wife apparently says it at her Karate dojo I have never heard it said at the school Kendo clubs that I go to or at my dojo. The people I train with concentrate more on enjoying the sport as opposed to the strict formalities that non-Japanese (or Korean) may wish to concentrate on. Although they are Japanese so maybe they don't need to concentrate on the formalities unlike non-Japanese.
But what do I know?

Keith

11-11-2003, 10:53 AM

There seems to be one other element here which no one has yet addressed. Depending on your club's structure, there may be opportunities to speak with or learn from the Sensei and senior students in a more social setting. For instance, our club not only has formal structure inside the dojo, but encourages group interaction after class. I have been very lucky in this regard in past years as well with various clubs around the world which had big social networks, beer garden festivities and the like as well.

cazoo

21-11-2003, 07:49 AM

ur supposed to go up to the teacher and "bow" if the sensei's this high ranked teahcer from some other club.

Craig Jones

21-11-2003, 11:24 AM

Each time I have gone up to the sensei he dismisses me pretty quickly, in fact, during training he gets us to line up against the one wall and lines take it in turns to go to the other end, we do it quickly, and he keeps shouting, don't be last. Surely it is more important to get the form right, footwork and the strike correct before applying speed to it. I am very new to Kendo and the Sensei's lack of interest in me is quite disheartening. Perhaps, because I am new, he does not know if he should spend time with me because he thinks I might quit. There are quite a lot of new people who have started and they ask him questions as well sp maybe he is just trying to answer all the questions flying at him.

Perhaps I should be more patient :ditsy:

Dont worry about it. I had the same experience and then one day sensei called me over and had me do uchikomi with all the 'seniors' (people in bogu) one after the other, and from that day forward he would always talk with me. I think part of it is that you need to prove your seriousness and willingness to learn. MANY newbies come into our club and if we are lucky 1 in 20 will stay on past the first month, and of those maybe 1 in 5 will stay 6 months. It seems that it is almost equally disheartening for them to put their time and effort into someone who is likely to not continue, but once you prove to them you are serious the flood gates open. :P

Yowai

21-11-2003, 05:29 PM

...I think part of it is that you need to prove your seriousness and willingness to learn. MANY newbies come into our club and if we are lucky 1 in 20 will stay on past the first month, and of those maybe 1 in 5 will stay 6 months. It seems that it is almost equally disheartening for them to put their time and effort into someone who is likely to not continue, but once you prove to them you are serious the flood gates open. :P
図星

Lill Murveln

21-11-2003, 06:08 PM

Relic

06-12-2003, 10:58 AM

BTW, Charlie, you should probably say "Domo arigato gozaimasu" vs. just "Domo arigato". That could be a bit more formal/respectful.

My teacher (who is Japanese) once let me know that the full "domo arigato gozaimasu" should be reserved for when something really, truly had a tremendous importance. His example - although he exaggerated it to make the point - was to use it when someone saved your life.

In informal Japanese company I mostly use "arigato".
In a formal setting I most often use "domo arigato".
I reserve the full array for those special occasions where I had a really good session, received a gift, or perhaps if the person in question is a visitor from far away (Japan springs to mind).

Also, if you thank a person for something after it has happened (e.g. thank you for the training we shared) you use "gozaimashita" which is past form of "gozaimasu".

Relic

06-12-2003, 11:04 AM

Would anyone be able to tell me the proper etiquette for kendo in these circumstances?

I have only very rarely heard "osssss" used in any context either in or out of kendo, other than from karateka.

I think others have already covered it, I just want to add that we had a guy start kendo after nine years of karate. His habit of saying "ossss" to every other word and person was met with this comment from our teacher:

"Please stop saying osssss and bowing all the time. You look like a chicken! Peck-peck!" ;-)

I should add that although Japanese, he is the less traditional type.

Sbres

06-12-2003, 03:41 PM

Nothing to do with the subject but I couldnt help to notice the place Nagoya in your post. I also live in Nagoya (or rather a bit outside, but I work in Nagoya), where do you practise? If you dont mind me asking.

/martin
I live and practice in kasugai, Aichi. How about you?

kageXkaze

06-12-2003, 09:57 PM

Onara

02-01-2004, 12:13 AM

I live and practice in kasugai, Aichi. How about you?

Ever been to Toyohashi?

Sbres

02-01-2004, 06:29 PM

Ever been to Toyohashi?

No, I haven't.

Old Warrior

12-01-2004, 03:12 AM

I preface this comment with my usual caveat that my 14 months in Kumdo, doesn't give much weight to my opinion. However: I am not holding myself out as having knowledge of historical tradition.

I belong to a "commercial" school. From what I read on this forum, students in our school pay 3 or 4 times more than what others do at many well respected dojos. The main advantage to this is that the relationship I have with the Master is substantially different than at traditional schools where the time of the sensei is basically donated. My teacher is also an "entrepreneur". I get as much attention as I reasonably want. And, I don't have to ask. At the conclusion of Saturday's class, Master Seong called me over to him and in his broken English said "today you learned..." and he went over each of the 5 points that he stressed with me, that day. Even more significant to me, was that before class, he brought my attention to when we bouted on Thursday and he told me what I needed to improve to fare better the next time.

I'm not making a value judgment as to which system is better. But, I get to go to class 4 times a week (I could attend twice as many classes if I had the time and the inclination) and classes are available 6 days a week. I am able to pusue my thirst for knowledge to the fullest extent of desire. This is a joy for me. Class is like therapy as it gets the stress from an active professional practice out of my body in a healthy constructive way. I don't have to sit around looking forward to my next class - I can just go!

canadasword

02-03-2004, 03:43 PM

ossu is just a greeting just like konnichiwa.
Only guys uses it. Girls just say konnichiha, or ohayou gozaimasu
Correct. It is an abbreviation of "ohayo gozaimasu" (the beginning honorific o and the ending su). And like somebody else guessed, it is a male, macho greeting thing, especially for young males when in a group, like "yo" in English.

Shogun97

13-03-2004, 04:05 PM

not-I

13-03-2004, 11:53 PM

We are allowed to call our sensai with his nick- and first name, he invites us to go to the pup after training, he helps us do the repairwork on our Shinais!!

well, a sensei is a sensei. every teacher has his/her own demeanor and methods and should be respected, no matter how strict or relaxed they appear to be.

we happen to have a more relaxed sensei in some respects, especially outside the dojo, but in others, he's very hard-core. he also seems to maintain a healthy aloofness, becomes very formal when appropriate (like when the Japanese group came to visit us) and he sure as hell doesn't cut us any slack during his infamous suburi marathons! :wink:

greetings!

kendokamax

15-03-2004, 05:01 PM

well, a sensei is a sensei. every teacher has his/her own demeanor and methods and should be respected, no matter how strict or relaxed they appear to be.

we happen to have a more relaxed sensei in some respects, especially outside the dojo, but in others, he's very hard-core. he also seems to maintain a healthy aloofness, becomes very formal when appropriate (like when the Japanese group came to visit us) and he sure as hell doesn't cut us any slack during his infamous suburi marathons! :wink:

greetings!

oh some of my friends were from that japanese group going to Austria. How was it?

not-I

15-03-2004, 08:18 PM

oh some of my friends were from that japanese group going to Austria. How was it?
It was a blast -- really a lot of fun. :smiley:

I'm not sure they gained much from training with us, but we certainly learned a lot from training with them! Their kendo was so relaxed and fluid, a big contrast to a lot of us Europeans, who tend to be too stiff and heavy-hitting. And they always immediately entered chikai-maai. We used to mostly stay in issoku-itto-no-maai, but i've noticed a lot of us changing to their style of seme. They were also really friendly and gave some of us less-advanced kendoka some nice tips. Their sensei was also a very nice guy. Some of our non-bogu beginners showed up too and he spent a couple sessions just teaching them.

We trained at the Vienna Budo Center. It's a pretty big place, and it's the first time i've seen it filled up, aside from during our Danube Cup tourny. Sitting across from each other in seiza was awesome. It looked like two armies preparing for war. I also remember finishing ji-geiko with someone and pausing to look around at the numerous battles going on. It looked like something out of a movie.

Of course one of the highlights was the party at the end of the week in the Budo cafe. Free dinner and beer and lots of laughs! We took some pretty goofy pictures at the end (beer sonkyo, etc.) but i haven't seen them yet. I might have talked to one of your friends. I was the guy with the shaved head hanging out at the "smoker's table" who rolled his own cigarettes (which the Japanese smokers --there were a lot of them-- seemed fascinated by) :smoker: . Please say HI from me.

Anyway, at the end, after our sensei and their sensei did a round of competition one-go beer-glass emptying, they made some speeches and said they'd be coming back every year! Great news! :cool:

forbidden

16-03-2004, 06:23 AM

Hello all.
First I would like to start out by saying thank you for letting me read all of these replies, it was interesting.

(sidenote)Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure only kendoka with 5th dan( and higher rank ) are to be called Sensei.

Bane:
I am really sorry about your sensei ignoring you. I wish you good luck and I hope he will be more friendly after a while. Keep working on your basics at home, that way he will see you improve, and that you are devoted to Kendo. That might help some.

All of these posts make me realize how lucky I really am. Our instructors are very friendly, and even from the first training session I attended, the main instructor showed a real interest in the beginning students.
He tells us to use his first name while talking to him, and we have lots of social meetings during the year.

I normally talk to him, or the other instructor after class, and I ask for tips and questions about gears, and different techniques I am working on.
The last thing I asked about was different hiki techniques ( i am still a kendo newbie, but im learning continually :p ) regarding do strikes / blocks, and how to do proper blocks , do strikes together with correct footwork. He showed a real interest, and listened carefullly, and he showed me 2-3 techniques I could work on.

If any instructors read this forum, I recommend them to follow an example like this. It is REALLY encouraging, and I think about kendo related issues all the time while walking to school, taking the buss, between classes, etc...
We only train twice a week... sadly, but it is definitely the high points at the week for me

*bows*

/excited kendoka

Musuko

08-04-2004, 02:09 AM

Your sensai is far too strickt!!!!
Damn!
We are allowed to call our sensai with his nick- and first name, he invites us to go to the pup after training, he helps us do the repairwork on our Shinais!!
I think he should be not that strickt your sensai!
If I may jump in here for Mike...

I also attend the same dojo in College Station, and though I've only been training for about a semester and a half, I think I can add in something here. I think you may have misunderstood. Our sensei, whom we also call by first name, just never addressed the whole going up after class thing. The suggestion given to Mike (I believe) to not go up to the sensei was given by another student. Our sensei is not strict at all, IMO at least. He is very helpful in everything, but you just have to ask.

Ben

Ren Blade

14-04-2004, 11:16 PM

I have no problems approaching sensei after class. He's very nice and approachable. Nobody is hesitant to ask him questions or for help after class. I like my sensei. He's awesome.

vintage

22-04-2004, 03:53 PM

Each time I have gone up to the sensei he dismisses me pretty quickly, ... you all already know what he said anyway ;)

Perhaps I should be more patient :ditsy:
First of all, hi. I'm new here. Been at this for about two months now. I could go on, but nobody cares ;)

Anyway, I have the exact opposite problem at my dojo. On any given day, we'll have anywhere from three to six sensei around, and I manage to be corrected multiple times on the same thing by every single one. I feel bad about this, but .. *shrug* what can I do?

I guess it's probably because I'm the worst student there. But I really enjoy the challenge of it.

Well, so... yeah. Hi.

Lill Murveln

22-04-2004, 04:13 PM

I live and practice in kasugai, Aichi. How about you?
Hi,
I have some friends at work living in Kasugai.
I live in Gamagori and mostly practise at Okazaki Iryou Kemusho, with the prisonguards. Otherwise I go to dojos in Nagoya and Gamagori etc.

Martin

Erikku

06-05-2004, 09:28 AM

But, I get to go to class 4 times a week (I could attend twice as many classes if I had the time and the inclination) and classes are available 6 days a week.
Man, I wish I lived in Jersey! I have the means and the will to attend a school like yours. Unfortunately, I could only register for a short 9 weeks semester beginner's kendo class at Laval University in Quebec city, and our class is on Monday. No other day. I'm glad my girlfriend took up kendo with me, so we can practice a bit together, but I'm afraid we're only strenghtening (sp? I'm French, forgive my bad English) our inadequate technique, and that we'll have to unlearn what we did by ourselves once in the Dojo. Sort of like playing piano for 5 years before taking your first lesson. You have to break bad habits.

Anyways, this was completely off-topic, so as an answer to er... I don't remember his name... Yes, we do go to our sensei after class and chat with him, but we haven't made it to the pub yet ;)

hopefully on the right track,

gsx1100s

12-05-2004, 12:41 AM

If you pay for the class you have every right to ask anything you want. A teacher should be happy to help.

cheers michael

Sithlord

28-05-2004, 05:21 PM

In our dojo it we thank whoever we trained with individually, and we also run up to the sensei and bow to him also after the formal rei.

utsutsu

31-05-2004, 05:21 AM

In my first days at the dojo, the most ranked student (a great person and very kind with newbies) teachme the basics. The basics included the basic reiki ( he pointed me that like i was newbie it didn't mind if i didn't know it how to say properly or know something).

At the end of a class, everyone go up and salute to your partners, saying domo arigato goisamasta, etc. etc., then we go trough the middle of the field and make a circle and everyone sits down to hear the sensei. He's japanese, it has more than 50 it's a 5th dan, and it's a great person, the other it's 40 years old and it's a 5th dan too and they're both kind persons. After hearing all the points, everyone goes to pack their bogu and hakama, and some people sempais, kohais or newbie ones can go to the sensei and ask something you might want to know more...

I almost every class go to the sensei to speak with him, i give him all my questions, doubts and ask him how to void this or get this things better, he is so cared about he never said me "go back, or don't disturb me"...

Sometimes, i do give thanks to my superiors for teach me things or have the patience to spent time on my and not in his training for competitions so i give thanks (sinceresly) every time i can do.

It's a matter to be kind and respectuful and not to be a lover or get a date with the kohai :D

In my dojo, they speak spanish but most of the time they teach me in japanese and i try to learn it the highest as possible to get better advices...

domo!

enkorat

09-06-2004, 01:43 PM

A good key to the wonders of the Japanese language is to remember a rather simple rule:

The shorter the phrase, the less formal it is.

This explains why in Japan, the announcement that your flight has been delayed takes about 4 sentences to say.

Generally if your conversational partner is of the same age and same gender, and generally younger, you can get away with "short phrases". In fact when I was in junior high and an exchange student came from Japan, he said that I talked like an adult and not like a kid.

That being said, as an adult I can't really say certain things even if its to a social equal anymore without seeming crass. Unless of course, I am of greater social status and I'm deliberately being less formal to hint to the other person that I consider them to be a confidant of sorts.

But, speaking from my experience of practicing in the US, I don't think it really makes that much of a difference to people. We're supposed to be learning kendo, not learning Japanese conversation.

If you want to be "authentic", you have to shift your degrees of formality on who you're talking to based on context, seniority, age, and gender. All within the same practice session.

For example if you want to say "Thank you", you have the following choices:
1) domo
2) domo arigato
3) arigato
4) arigato gozaimasu and arigato gozimashita
5) domo arigato gozaimasu and domo arigato gozaimashita

These are the commonly used forms of "thank you" in japanese. There are several more, but they're archaic and aren't used in normal conversation.

If I'm speaking to one of my sensei's who is of much higher rank than I am, but is relatively similar to me in age, and not within an instructional capacity, I would probably go with choice 1,2 or 3.

If its in a instructional capacity or in a formalized situation (like he's leaving the country and its the last time I'm going to see him) then I would never use choice 1,2, or 3.

If the sensei is much older than me in age and higher rank then I would never use 1,2 or 3 regardless of context.

And this is just with "Thank you". Things get much more complicated very quickly. If I'm speaking in Japanese during class I have to shift my sentence endings sometimes depending on what the other person is doing.

But again, we're learning kendo, not learning the Japanese language. So again, I'd go with what the tradition of your dojo is, and if you're doing something wrong your sensei will probably say something.

If you're interested in learning Japanese because of kendo, more power to you. But if you are interested, we can always go over how Japanese people count things....

senki-kendo-jos

23-06-2004, 02:23 AM

personally I go ask the sensei if I have a taikai or grading coming up. If i'm visiting a dojo U always go and rei to all the sensei and sempai.

taganahan

23-06-2004, 05:14 PM

it's not enough to practice kendo in the physical form, but you also need to learn kendo mentally. like, ask for some guides on how to or not to do things, and those kind of stuff. if you have the resource to borrow kendo books, i suggest you borrow one too just to balance out the body and mind.

Marquis

19-07-2004, 07:31 AM

At my club everybody goes to the sensei after the class... No exceptions

tapioka

29-08-2004, 01:25 PM

same here. after doing "wakare" with the head sensei, everyone shifts down to the next sensei, bows, goes to the next sensei, bows, etc. is this something not done very often nowadays?

Apostrophe

30-08-2004, 02:32 AM

Recently at a Kendo clinic I was told it is not only proper, but rude if you do not go to a visiting Sensei. Or if you are visiting another Dojo.

Ishii

11-09-2004, 02:29 AM

I have two sensei in my dojo. After each keiko everybody goes to sensei bow and exchange few sentences about practice.
But recently only younger sensei (about my age) was present in dojo and when I went to him he said "we didn't practice together today, so you don't have to come to me". But he saw me during practice and said few things about my hand movement in suburi.
I was little confused for a moment but now I see you can always come to sensei and ask your questions. If you have ji-geiko with him, sensei will tell you what you should improve without your questions.

kusunoki1209

09-10-2004, 07:16 AM

Mokuso...just to clarify. Mokuso is the command to meditate followed by yame (stop) and rei (bow). Is that what you are refering to?

Gerald Audette

13-10-2004, 12:02 AM

In my experience, the ususal course of action is if we have a visiting Sensei, such as during a seminar, we go and bow to them after we get any special instrcutions or comments from the various sensei on a whole. Also, if we are visiting a club, we would go to that club's Sensei in thanks of allowing us to practice with them.

On average, in our club, we don't go to Sensei after every practice - our thoughts here are to ask questions often during practice. This allows sensei to explain to the group, as it may be a point that Sensei would like to clairfy for the group.

hth - GA

nalogg

13-10-2004, 03:22 AM

At our dojo (etobicoke olympium) we go up to the sensei after every practice. every person.

we all crowd in and go up to the senseis in groups of 4 or 5

we say domo arigato gosaimashta, bow, and then they say what they need to say to us, or we ask them questions...

it adds about 15 minutes on to the end of class, but i like it.

Some sensei won't say too much, the only sensei who really takes the time to talk to every student that comes to sit in front of him is Ma sensei. He often causes a traffic jam in the dojo because he takes so long to talk to us, but he's cool and he's always got something helpful for you.

Wifenmummy

19-10-2004, 08:14 AM

at least you have a sensai our kendo group doesnt have one! not for awhile now! we teach each other... im pretty much a beginner but the others been playing for at least 2 years.

Andoru

19-10-2004, 10:12 AM

Where do you train?

Wifenmummy

19-10-2004, 12:30 PM

Newcastle University NSW

Andoru

19-10-2004, 12:48 PM

We're only about 1.5 hours away. Come down and visit us sometimes. :)

Wifenmummy

19-10-2004, 12:55 PM

it would be nice.. we did have a sydney student for awhile think he was japanese... im the only girl in the kendo group... :) i think id be blown away to be in a room with a sensei.. i would know what to do.. *does that sound silly or what!*
thanks for the offer :) dont know that i could get down there tho.. i dont drive.. :( sydney is 3-4 hours by train (geez!)

Andoru

19-10-2004, 04:45 PM

We have a dojo in Hornsby too by the way. Otherwise, try make the Saturday training at Willoughby - it'd be worth your trip. :)

Itto_Okami

19-10-2004, 09:43 PM

Hi

First of all, my apologies if my english isn´t good enought. Hope you understand me.

In our dojo of Sevilla (Spain) we train by traditional concept of Budo. We can train Kendo, Iaido, Karate, Aikido and others arts.

Our Sensei keeps a very rigid sense of rei as a matter or respect to each others and dojo.

In kendo class, after running, we bow in seiza facing Shomen and Sensei.

We do:

"Shomen ni rei" (no response)
"Sensei ni rei" _ we respond "Onegai Shimazu"
"Otaga ni rei" _ "" "" ""

then the advanced students wears their bogus and after get up to start the class.

Before practise in pairs we salutate each other "Onegai Shimazu", when we finish "Arigatou Gozamashita". The Sensei teach us this way one says "please, let´s train together" and "thank you very much".

At the end of the class we bow again in seiza and make the same rei at beginning but responding "Arigatou Gozamashita". Then all we bow again in seiza around the sensei who tells us about the class, improvements, etc. To finish all we said "Otsukaresama Desu" (more or less "Well done")

Sayonnara friends

Wifenmummy

21-10-2004, 12:31 PM

ah thats good u practice on the weekend androu
itto okami your english was very good! :) is onegai shimazu the name of your sensei?
we dont do alot of bowing and almost no japanese except numbers 1-10 and hajime! :( would be nice if there was more japanese language in our club....... i really need to learn more japanese..

Itto_Okami

21-10-2004, 04:03 PM

Thanks Wifenmummy... "Onegai Shimazu" isn´t the name of our Sensei :wink:

Wifenmummy

23-10-2004, 09:51 PM

Thanks Wifenmummy... "Onegai Shimazu" isn´t the name of our Sensei :wink:

oh! :) then can i please ask what it means?

Tatsuko

24-10-2004, 01:22 AM

oh! :) then can i please ask what it means?
It should be "Onegai Shimasu" and it basically means "please."

Wifenmummy

25-10-2004, 08:30 AM

thanks! :)
"Onegai shimasu"=Please, let's practice

crabbi

04-11-2004, 08:52 AM

I believe that 'O-negai shimasu' is the most commonly used way to say 'Can you help me?' in Japanese...

Certainly in other Martial Arts Dojos this greeting is used at the beginning of sparring or technique training.

In Shorinji Kempo it is used along with a 'Rei' or salute similar to the Indian 'Namaste' at the beginning of a training session and at the start of technical practice with a partner or sparring and then the salute is used again at the end with 'Arigato gozaimashita'.

crabbi

Itto_Okami

05-11-2004, 10:08 PM

Right Crabbi!

In our Dojo tell us that "Onegai Shimasu" means specifically, "Please, can´t you help me". Also that it means in a Martial Arts concept "Let´s practice together, i will be clear and fair, control my attack and not hurt you"

(sorry, but in English i can´t explain it more specifically)

Cheers!

kendo-boi

21-01-2005, 07:21 AM

..................?

Faustus

14-02-2005, 12:43 AM

I hear "onegaishimasu" all over the place, and not just at the dojo or something (well, not surprising, considering where I'm living, obviously). Literally, it means "please," but in most contexts it means, "please do this for me," "please do your best," "please teach me," that sort of thing. I take it as all-encompassing, depending on the context. But I've heard it said before keiko at kendo practice, and also when one of the English teachers at my school says, "Faustus-sensei, could you please make a worksheet for class tomorrow? Onegaishimasu!"

On the bowing front, my class is fairly small (maybe fifteen of us, total?), and predominantly kids. I haven't been to a practice yet where everyone hasn't had the opportunity to keiko with the sensei(s) in some capacity, even if it's just practicing men cuts. So at the end of class, the senseis sit seiza behind their bogu and the kids line up and bow, get tips, that kind of thing. Everyone does it. It's a little weird for me, because despite being brand new to this, I sit with the senseis and the kids bow to me, also (so I exchange bows with the other senseis prior to that). At first I thought it was special treatment because I'm not Japanese or something, but there's a Japanese guy about my age also just starting out, and he's given the same respect, so I assume it's age-based, to a certain extent.

In any case, everyone bows. On days when I personally didn't train with one sensei or another, we still exchanged bows at the end of class. Sorry, this was vague and probably longer than it needed to be.

I do have a question, though, about just how this exchange is supposed to go, if anyone has any answers. Is it that the subordinate bows and says, "Onegaishimasu," then the sensei returns the bow, gives any advice, yadda yadda, and then "Arigato gozaimashita" from each, then the subordinate leaves? I'm never sure exactly how it's supposed to go, and language barriers make it tough to get an explanation (I'd watch and see, but it's tough when you're exchanging bows at the same time as the senseis). Yeah... dumb n00b question. Heh.

KevinF

28-02-2005, 11:54 PM

The kids bowing to you is age-based. After the kids are finished, it would be polite of you to place yourself in front of the sensei(s) and bow to them. You bow should be lower than theirs.

Kendo elsewhere in the world is often more "waza" and technical than keiko in Japan. Japanese kendo practice in most dojos is jigeiko exclusively - so these few moments at the end of class with the sensei is a good opportunity to get tips. Not only it is polite and respectfull to the teahers, but good and usefull to you.

ChaShu

12-03-2005, 04:45 AM

I'm relatively new to kendo (2 1/2 mos.) but generally the beginners will have only a few minutes to go up to sensei and perform ritsu rei and thank sensei after the end of our practice while the bogu students are warming up. If sensei has seen something that he thinks we need to work on, he'll point it out to us and make sure that it's not some general comment like "remember proper kamae" or something in that vein but usually something more specific to our issues or just to encourage. At other times, he'll ask us all aside (to keep out of the way of bogu practice) to explain some general concept that he would rather not explain during practice (we only get one hour twice a week due to constraints on location) such as shinai maintenance or tying your hakama.

What I'm trying to say here other than our sensei are pretty in tune with what we're doing in class is that generally, it's a good idea to go up and at least thank sensei, and sometimes they'll have something to discuss with you. A little late I know, but hopefully it may help other KW users just reading through this thread right now.

Rurouni Kenshin

26-03-2005, 05:25 AM

HOw about asking sensei for a cup of coffee on a saturday afternoon after practice?

Im pretty introvert and shy by nature and I have great respect for our 7th dan sensei even though im training iaido for a few weeks. He always asks if we have any questions on the performed kata but I usually have questons in general which I am affraid to ask. (questions about breathing, taking the sword out of a body into a next move, the look in your eyes, the fingers on the tsuka; the kind of questions a noob shouldnt be asking yet).

Even though I have been training for a few weeks my mother and GF have seen improvement in my behaviour and approach to life - I seem to look more lively; I just want to have some non-dojo time with my sensei and wonder if thats appropriate or not. Recently came to my knoweldege that there has been no non-japanese sensei yet to achieve 8th dan so I really look up to my dutch sensei.

Furthermore I would like to discuss the fact that my body is way off normal scale - my 1 leg is like 3/4 inch too short, my toes dont bend too much which affects my whole posture, my spine has a big dent in it etc. Could any of you give me some pointers on discussing such topics with sensei?

Thanx...............

Solinde

27-03-2005, 01:51 AM

HOw about asking sensei for a cup of coffee on a saturday afternoon after practice?
(...)
Could any of you give me some pointers on discussing such topics with sensei?

To be honest, I think that your sensei would be very happy to answer all your questions. Maybe you think that you don't know enough to ask some of your questions, but the truth is that if you knew enough you wouldn't have to ask them at all. ;) I think all of the questions about kata you mentioned are very good questions, and even if you might not yet be able to make full use of your sensei's answers, you might as well ask them straight away.

Actually, I think that your sensei would be delighted to know that you go to him for advice instead of looking for them on the internet (no offence meant). :)

Kendo_McMole

31-03-2005, 10:18 PM

it's not muk song, it MOKUSO, its the call for meditating.

Rurouni Kenshin

03-04-2005, 05:02 AM

. . . . . .

Light Samurai

03-04-2005, 05:16 AM

it's not muk song, it MOKUSO, its the call for meditating.
You need to calm down a little, and where is this post reffering someoen to calling it "Muk Song"? And even then, you need to stop sounding so harsh. Everyone here is like a extended family to me, and when you pull crap like "I'm better then you." It get's me ticked. Now, politely, I ask you to be more polite from now on.
Thanks,
LS.

GoldenShinai

20-04-2005, 02:58 AM

You need to calm down a little, and where is this post reffering someoen to calling it "Muk Song"? And even then, you need to stop sounding so harsh. Everyone here is like a extended family to me, and when you pull crap like "I'm better then you." It get's me ticked. Now, politely, I ask you to be more polite from now on.
Thanks,
LS.
yeah, go light! you tell 'im!

asian_knight

22-04-2005, 01:44 AM

:smiley:
WOW, this week has been fun. Weve been having practice almost everyday to get ready for the Takai and Shinsa this weekend. Its Kendo Heaven. lol. At the same time we had a privilege to practice with Ota Sensei who is a hachidan, and is also our special guest this weekend. Practice was fun. I was able to do a geiko with him last time, but not yesterday because we went over katas with him. But we learn a lot though. Hopefully I would be able to do geiko with him again. I dont know what it was, but I was so tired after I have geiko with him, AND it was on the first round. I thought I was going to have a lot of energy, but I got burned. Wheew, but that I loved it though. Cant wait for this weekend.

I guess I'll see evryone who is coming to Dallas this weekend.

Kendoka_Shogun

01-05-2005, 10:56 AM

I think you take it to seriously if you feel threatened by talking to your sensei. There should be no conflict between anything when you participate in sparring with a higher grade. You should be courtious, respectful in your own way if you are not sure if there is any ettiquite (sp?). Naturally there are things people do differently, kiai, bowing etc... when your starting martial arts you try your best to be kind to everybody, HOWEVER it makes no difference how you bow to the sensei, if you are sincere and mean it, there is a huge difference between that and doing it properly, but with no feeling.

Kendo manners are all about sincerity and respect. At the end of the day, if you have the opportunity to sit down and discuss ethics and manners with your sensei and maybe have a beer (if your old enough :D) then do so. Senseis are not gods among men, it shouldn't matter if they are Japanese or Korean, as long as they are sincere they will enjoy your presence as much as you enjoy theirs.

Do not be intimidated, after class they are not holding a un-sheathed katana.

Peace :D

~keiko~

31-05-2005, 04:04 PM

At my dojo possibly we're a little laid back because our senseis actually encourage us to ask them questions. I was at first nervouse to ask them but then when I got more comfortable around them I found out that they prefer it. I guess it's better to ask questions right? Cause your part of that dojo now so why shouldn't you be able to ask questions? I dont see why you shouldn't; even in Japanese tradition and kendo books I've read, I don't think that you are forbidden from asking questions. I think that may be taking a form of respect to an extreme level.

natehill13

31-05-2005, 11:01 PM

Uhh... I posted a thread eariler but just in case no one read it... All my senseis will be japanese and... Are they really That strict? I mean I don't really care much but I'll feel pretty uneasy if constantly tells me stuff or makes some side comments... And yowai.... Is it really that wrong to be a gainjin in kendo? I've been having my doubts in joining kendo but with the some of the heavy blows said by you really hit me in the gut with that whole "if your teacher is a gainjin... Not no tradition" and what not... ack!

From my experience it will not be that difficult for you, for the longest time I was the only gai koko jin in my club, (gai koko jin is more respectable, to some people gaijin is a bit of epiphet) and at first you may be regarded as a bit of a curiosity, especially if they are not used to seeing non-Japanese or non-Asian students.

They are really not that traditional, either that or tradition is so ingrained in everyone it becomes second nature, you will not stand out if you just do what everyone else is doing.

Incedentally what is done for my club/class we do the formal thanks to the 7 dans ranking individuals, then a more informal thank you where they will give points to certain students, about various things even if it is something like your men is coming along, you showed a lot fo heart out there today etc... after that people mill around thanking indivuals who practiced with them, I believe this is supposed to go according to rank, but usually it is just whoever is closest and not busy at the time.

Of course this on Okinawa which is more laid back than the rest of Japan.

SkippyDaStudent

18-06-2005, 02:31 PM

To be completely honest, I have no idea how you figure out if you're supposed to go up or not.

All I know is this: after our training last weekend, the members age 21 and over all went out to a bar, Sensei's idea. I don't think it would be a problem for any of us at my dojo to go up to him.

cresentmoon

10-07-2005, 06:37 PM

hello there i have been reading your forums for quite sometimes and have recently decided to join, i have been practising japanese swordsmanship for quite some times now,,without a sensei of coures i have a number of swords such as an iato whicj i have purchase in japan 2 months ago and a bokken i train with the both of them at times too, i find the iato more heavier than the practical katana that im goin to buy...so is there sumthing wrong with it? i like to know your opinion

Mr. Donigan

28-07-2005, 07:31 AM

Couldn't agree more. It absolutely drives me up the wall when people who are not Japanese "osssss". Also, when non-Japanese people kiai like older Japanese senseis (Although technically, kiai is a very individual thing, this still bugs me. I'm probably getting myself in trouble by saying this though.) I feel like saying "Hey man, have you even been to Japan?"

BTW, Charlie, you should probably say "Domo arigato gozaimasu" vs. just "Domo arigato". That could be a bit more formal/respectful.

Lastly, as long as you've trained under the sensei for a fair amount of time and know him fairly well, I think you can go ask for pointers when you feel you need it. I think that holds true for both Korean and Japanese dojos.

Please explain why non-Japanese people shouldn't "ossss". We use it in my dojo, and I often run into other martial artists from different arts ie karate and use "Oss" with them. How is this inapropriate?

Miravil

28-07-2005, 06:27 PM

Over here we usually will do the group 'rei' and then we'll line up from the highest rank sensei and 'rei' to them respectively after the other lower rank sensei/senpai 'rei' to the high rank sensei. The sensei will give us comments and pointers as and when they wish or they have any. After that, we will give them another 'rei' and will forward to the next sensei until the last. After that we will 'rei' to those that we keiko with. All the above 'rei' are greeted with "arigato gozaimasu" or "domo arigato gozaimasu".

What do you feel when a sensei gives you comments about your mistakes and how to improve it? :smiley:

Toaster

09-08-2005, 04:07 AM

I don't know whether this is uncommon but my sensei never does a review after class with any of the members. If he spots you doing something wrong, he'll just tell you there and then.:old_man:

Jerott

29-08-2005, 02:53 AM

Remember you don't blend in a group, you fit. If you don't fit, don't go with the flow.

emilie

08-10-2005, 09:05 PM

hi, Im in a new school in japan (Im a canadian exchange student in japan) and since I dont speak japanse (I normaly speak french so, Im sorry if I make mistakes in the english words too!!!) everyone tend to speak to me in english. ok, when I make funny faces or say bye bye instead of sayonara, they just like it. My kendo sensee is really nice and freak sometimes (laugh really loudly and sometimes dance... o_o) so, we dont have really rules, except for the end of the renshuu, we salute him, the men and then salute last for something I still dont know :] I wonder if it is allright for me to dont use the polite form of -masu verbs or say bye bye or things like that. :confused2

nodachi

08-10-2005, 10:24 PM

With your sensei, always use the polite form, even if they don't with you. There are different rules when speaking to those above you and those below you. Even if they feel really familiar and friendly, it is just good form to be extra polite with people like your sensei. It says a lot about your character and it will be appreciated and work to your advantage down the road.

Miravil

09-10-2005, 01:53 AM

The last rei (in your word, salute) is for everyone in the dojo, some said for those who practiced with you.

samurai999

09-10-2005, 08:51 AM

Please explain why non-Japanese people shouldn't "ossss". We use it in my dojo, and I often run into other martial artists from different arts ie karate and use "Oss" with them. How is this inapropriate?

Well from what I know, ppl who say "ossu" are most likely ppl who are Jp and who know each other well. Kinda like saying brutha, my homeboy ), etc.. Though now that you mention it, asians saying "my nigga" (well this isn't racist, its ebonicsor my brutha don't fit the stereotype either...

Tim

Wormaap

17-10-2005, 07:40 AM

In the dojo where I train, the sensei will just come to you while you're practicing, telling what you're doing wrong. Also the more experienced people will talk to you all the time when doing exercises. After the training, everyone changes in the same dressing room and after that we usually just stand and talk a bit about random stuff, so I have all the time I need to ask the sensei or other people what I did wrong, and how to improve it :)
It helps that the sensei at this dojo is as Dutch as I am too, I guess.

Beserk

29-10-2005, 06:37 AM

I live and train in South Africa and I usually go up to my Sensei after each training session for tips or helpful info... But it seems that the average "junior" students are most of the time affraid because they dont know the way things work! Do you guys also find that in your clubs?

Paikea

29-10-2005, 06:39 AM

Beserk

29-10-2005, 05:51 PM

Absolutely, it's amazing how hard you have to prod some people into doing that.

They just need some motivation from the seniors because they will be grateful for the help. I always learn something new when talking to the sensei! Whether it is about waza or anything else in that line...

nodachi

29-10-2005, 09:40 PM

Joehannah

31-10-2005, 12:25 AM

Joehannah

31-10-2005, 12:31 AM

What do you feel when a sensei gives you comments about your mistakes and how to improve it? :smiley:

The first time I went to a large dojo and went up to the highest ranking sensei, all he said, over and over was, 'you have no kiai!' he also went about muttering 'baka miji' ...still not sure exactly what that means, but I gathered he was a crankey old man, lol :)

Paikea

01-11-2005, 05:17 AM

I've always seen that opposite... that people are afraid to not run up to sensei and bow. For example, if the entire dojo runs up to sensei to bow, perhaps I should do the same... when in rome sort of situation... otherwise the paranoia of being rude sneaks in the back their minds...Oh no, we all do wakare after class of course - it's not optional, I'm talking about those who never take the time to ask sensei how they are doing, or what could they be doing better.

Oyaji

07-11-2005, 05:22 PM

Normaly after "mokusou", (meditation) the teacher of a group will shout "shugou" (assemble, gather) and then give some advice to finish up the class. If you were not instructed by the teacher and if he did not shout it to you then joining seems a bit odd, but this has nothing to do with tradition.

I use ous in the morning at work and it is a casual way of recongnising somebody or something we even mix it with ohaiyou to get "haiosu". In kendo i use it if i loose a poit to someone to recognise it. This is my own personal habbit though but i have never been told not to say it. As long as you are Polite and respectful to your kouhai, senpai and sensei and get permission for visitors or if visiting, which in any country is politeness, then you cant go wrong realy as all clubs are a bit different.

Oyaji

07-11-2005, 05:31 PM

Bye the way are there any other non Japanese who train in the Shibuya ward? If so get in touch.

Dmkoh86

15-12-2005, 07:57 AM

I've been a Gumdo practitioner for 6 years but I've been recently taking Kendo since my college only offered Kendo. In my case, all I had to do was show respect and approach them. They're not going to bite your head off.

Sometimes Gumdo teachers and Kendo sensei's can have different attitudes. But I honestly think that a sensei who turns a student who has important questions away are horrible senseis. Unless they think that your question had already been answered during the training, or is a downright retarded question. I approach my sensei all the time after lessons and he answers all my questions.

rfoxmich

05-03-2006, 12:14 PM

This has an easy answer actually:
1. Practice with sensei... be sure to do that.... much the most important
person in the dojo to practice with.
2. Go to sensei after class.. thank him for practice. That's just polite.
If he has something to say, he won't be shy... if you didn't practice with
him, See 1. above and also don't assume that he didn't see your kendo
just because you didn't practice with him.

Gessho

09-03-2006, 06:44 AM

Couldn't agree more. It absolutely drives me up the wall when people who are not Japanese "osssss". Also, when non-Japanese people kiai like older Japanese senseis (Although technically, kiai is a very individual thing, this still bugs me. I'm probably getting myself in trouble by saying this though.) I feel like saying "Hey man, have you even been to Japan?"

When I studied Shito-ryu here in Seattle we used "ooss" as a greeting. I notice that they don't do this in my kendo class so I don't of course.

On the subject of kiai, I find that to be a very personal expression of one's character during sparring so I am not sure how one can moderate that. Obviously, a middle-aged Japanese man will sound different from a younger Caucasian man but I don't see where being effected by the environment and one's peers and elders is a bad thing.

:happy: (obligatory smiley face to defuse any negative reactions...)

Ato_101

12-04-2006, 04:10 AM

I started doing kendo for about 4months and then i had to stop and return to college to finish off my studys now Im done, 7 months later, do I just jump back in were I started or do I go up to my Sensei and ask for permission to return

samurai999

12-04-2006, 04:12 AM

Neil Gendzwill

12-04-2006, 04:21 AM

Definitely talk to your sensei, he will have some advice for how he wants you to rejoin the class. If you already were practicing in bogu for example he may want you to practice without for a few weeks to get back in the groove. Stuff like that.

Fudo-Shin

29-04-2006, 12:26 PM

I once went to a Seminar (location withheld). At the end of the 1st day after we bowed out I lined up with other students (most of which were from that club) to bow out again to a particular Sensei and basically say thanks. Before I got to him, with one of HIS students in front of me, he motioned me away and said "you can go now". My jaw almost dropped. It's like he was only giving tips or accepting thanks from his own students. My Japanese Sensei outranks him by far and always makes time for each student (including beginners) who comes up after we bow out.

I guess..diff Dojo diff ettiquitte (for some). But even in Japan they are also polite in my experience.

BTW...I went back to seminar the next day and beat all HIS kyu level Kendoka and one of his Nidans during Shiai Geiko. I felt I deserved to win in that case.

Jay Roto

04-05-2006, 04:26 AM

yooooo people im new here someone help me im me at lilrotondojrwn

tilt

13-09-2006, 05:16 PM

Dont worry about it. I had the same experience and then one day sensei called me over and had me do uchikomi with all the 'seniors' (people in bogu) one after the other, and from that day forward he would always talk with me. I think part of it is that you need to prove your seriousness and willingness to learn. MANY newbies come into our club and if we are lucky 1 in 20 will stay on past the first month, and of those maybe 1 in 5 will stay 6 months. It seems that it is almost equally disheartening for them to put their time and effort into someone who is likely to not continue, but once you prove to them you are serious the flood gates open. :P

I have found this to be true!

Keali

17-09-2006, 11:17 AM

I stopped practicing kendo twice, and every time I "jumped back" I asked permission to come back. Never had any problems...

Keali

17-09-2006, 11:20 AM

The problem is, though, that my kendo wasn't good enough for my "grade" anymore. I had 3rd kyu when I quit the first time, now I'm 4th again (not officially, but it'll take a while before I'll pass my exams for 2nd kyu).

Berserker

29-10-2006, 04:08 AM

We always go up to the sensei after each class... Even the people without bogu (ie beginners) go up to the sensei to get advice! Even if it just for some advice on footwork. Everybody gets a chance to talk the sensei, but his advice would actually have more meaning if you had keiko that evening!! It should not be seen as a bad thing to talk to the sensei, since he is there to help guide you... :happy:

ManyRoses

02-12-2006, 01:02 PM

At the end of the 1st day after we bowed out I lined up with other students (most of which were from that club) to bow out again to a particular Sensei and basically say thanks. Before I got to him, with one of HIS students in front of me, he motioned me away and said "you can go now". My jaw almost dropped. (...)

BTW...I went back to seminar the next day and beat all HIS kyu level Kendoka and one of his Nidans during Shiai Geiko. I felt I deserved to win in that case.

NIIIICE!!:D

kojiro

13-01-2007, 02:45 PM

[QUOTE=swrdply400mrela;22021]After class (after muk song, sp?), some of the senior members approach the sensei and sit in front of him while he does a quick review of what they need to work on. My question is, how do you know if you should go up?

Once, a few senior members went up and one of them encouraged us to go up with them, but the guy next to me said we shouldn't go up since we didn't spar with our sensei. So instead, we packed away our bogu.

Thanks

Yeah.. well... Usually you'll have to pass by sensei.. but i guess your dojo is really big, but still you can ask him stuffs even if you did not go against your sensei... I hope you do not forget the etiquettes to sensei if you go against him or her. It is to pay respect to sensei and it is not only for to get advice. As I learned.. so.. I dun think there has to be jiyo-geiko w/ sensei to have a nice chat after muku-san...

ghostdancer

14-01-2007, 12:24 AM

since i practice in a fairly small club approx 10 members, going up to sensei is not a problem as we are relatively informal
After we have reied off my sensei will pass comments, praise, encouragement pointers to watch for as deemed necessary

Did a Shai with in the club last week ended up against a Sho dan and scored a kote chuffed or what, however what meant more was both the sensei and the sempai who were officiating both saying after the session good kote well done (the sempai is not exactly forthcoming with his praise usually)
The shodan was pretty complimentary as wel,l as a low end Kyu was well pleased with the praise, however this will mean now that i have done it once will have to raise my game considerably to keep "face" or gonna get a asswhooping big time

oh well thats life..........fun aint it

kenshi212

18-01-2007, 06:22 PM

i say always, always, always go to anyone higher rank than you to thank them for keiko. Not only is it proper, as many have said here, you might learn something. not something difficult to do, most will give a short "no, thank you" kinda response and some give out praises, advice, or whatever.

on the other hand, I would not go to a sensei I did not do keiko with. They might remember and say "I didn't keiko with you..." espeacially if the sensei is a guest from differnet dojo, country, etc., which can be embarrassing.

so, I guess just use your judgement and common sense and put yourself in the senseis shoes! or bogu?

or just keiko with everybody.

thank you,
good night

1/2

25-01-2007, 06:05 PM

After class (after muk song, sp?), some of the senior members approach the sensei and sit in front of him while he does a quick review of what they need to work on. My question is, how do you know if you should go up?

Once, a few senior members went up and one of them encouraged us to go up with them, but the guy next to me said we shouldn't go up since we didn't spar with our sensei. So instead, we packed away our bogu.

Thanks

Mike

I don't know how this works in other countries or other dojos, but here in Norway we have a good two way dialogue with our sensei. The sensei teaches and let us know what we need to work on, and if we are curious about sertain techniques or katas etc, he/she will help us to understand better. I think that it is important for my progress to have such a dialogue with my sensei.

radran

08-02-2007, 06:25 PM

Once, a few senior members went up and one of them encouraged us to go up with them, but the guy next to me said we shouldn't go up since we didn't spar with our sensei. So instead, we packed away our bogu.

why wouldn't you go up? following traditions and all that is all well and good but why should older students only benifit?

our sensei just came for the first time on friday and i went up to him and asked him for some pointers. He spent the last half hour helping me and spent so long he didn't get time for the older poeple who asked, because i needed the help most (being my 3rd lesson).

Also i didn't spare with him (i don;t even have the equipment yet) all he did was ask me to demonstrate to him so he could advise me.

Kyung

13-03-2007, 11:48 PM

My doj is small. I line up with seniors at the end and do the mukseo, sonkyo, then one by one we go up to the master. then sonkyo to the seniors until i get back to my place.

yoda40

23-03-2007, 06:45 AM

After class (after muk song, sp?), some of the senior members approach the sensei and sit in front of him while he does a quick review of what they need to work on. My question is, how do you know if you should go up?

Once, a few senior members went up and one of them encouraged us to go up with them, but the guy next to me said we shouldn't go up since we didn't spar with our sensei. So instead, we packed away our bogu.

Thanks

Mike

Mike - Simple answer no need to go up if you didn't train, however if not training with Sensei becomes a habit, thats a different problem, you would go up and ask for forgiveness and request next time he/she train with you. How do you know what to do? Ask your Sensei after class, he/she will gladly tell you what is expected. Most of all DON'T ASSUME, ASK!

With respect to the other comments, posted, I visit all types of dojo's regardless of the ethic background or focus some are more strict then others, no other pattern, I am more of a traditionalist myself and when I teach tend to be much more firm, but then again, I teach beginners mostly and am expected to - as directed by sensei.

Oni

17-09-2008, 05:39 AM

Always go, even if you don't feel so.

Toecutter

17-09-2008, 07:05 AM

i say always, always, always go to anyone higher rank than you to thank them for keiko.

on the other hand, I would not go to a sensei I did not do keiko with.

I tend to agree with Kenshi, but in general I always go up to the sensei even if I didn't train with them. Sometimes they just say I didn't train with you other times they say I noticed you doing this or fix that. What ever the case it depends on the dojo but I would go out of your way to show appreciation to the sensei or visiting sensei, also talk to the seniors. I've gotten a lot of excellent feed back from senior players.

foundinsea

28-11-2008, 04:52 AM

Toecutter makes a point. At our dojo we always say thank you to all the sensei. You never know what advice they will give and sometimes they may have observed you doing keiko next to them and still have pointers for you. Besides, you're thanking all the sensei not just for doing keiko with you but for taking the time to come to the dojo and teach.

Incidentally in Asia it is considered good manners to say hello and good bye to all your elders. Even if they shoo you away, at least they know you came to say thanks.