3 Acts of Kendo

[taganahan]

was talking to my sensei a few weeks ago and he ended up talking about the 3 diffrent actions you can do in kendo. i just remembered it tonight and thought i might discuss this with all of you. the more opinion i get, the better you and i will understand this.

1. Take Action - to take action means that you're the one initiating the attack. The person who attacks first.
2. React - the kind of person who sits/waits for an opening. Counter-attacks might qualify for this.
3. Be Proactive - hardest one to learn of all three. a person who anticipates an attack and makes an opening for himself. The one that is in control of the match.

my question: how do you develop this sense of being "proactive" especially during keiko or even shiai? which one of these are you using most of the time?

he said, it's the hardest one to learn because you're integrating both no. 1 and 2 together and taking it to a higher level. he also added that it'll make a person's kendo better.

is this just something you learn after x yrs of kendo? not something you learn in a month or two like kote-men uchi.

~taganahan

PS. take the definitions with a dash of salt.

[Landorph]

to simply put it.. it is called seme. To seme your opponents into giving you an oppening.. Not an attack of physical speed or power, but pressure. So you gain control and dominate the match.

this is done through alot of facotrs, like posture, attitude, confidence, ability to strike, and understanding your oponent's strength and weakenesss and utilize such information to your advantage.

[SmellsLikeBogu]

how about the guys that manipulater their opponent.
Make your opponent do the attack you want him to do,
thats even harder :)

[Kenzan]

1. Take Action - to take action means that you're the one initiating the attack. The person who attacks first.
2. React - the kind of person who sits/waits for an opening. Counter-attacks might qualify for this.
3. Be Proactive - hardest one to learn of all three. a person who anticipates an attack and makes an opening for himself. The one that is in control of the match.



You forgot the 4th, most important one.
You can scream:
STOP!......Hammer time!.....
And proceed to do the "Chinese Typewriter."
:D

[Charlie]

Honestly, I think it only comes with time. You can divide a swordsman's career into these three phases.

1. He attacks, often, and aggressively. (Beginning to roughly shodan-nidan.)

2. He's a bit faster. He's as fast as his opponent's, usually, and he's starting to be able to guess what his opponent is going to do, cause his opponent to do something, or is fast enough that he can counter his opponent's movements, even if surprised by them. (nidan, sandan, yondan)

3. He's reading my mind. DAMMIT, HE'S READING MY MIND!!! :D (yondan and up... and up... and up...)

Seriously, I think this is just something that comes with time and practice and is relative. For example, I might be able to elicit HE'S READING MY MIND from a mudansha opponent, but by no means can I do that to my peers.

This reminds me of the story of Chuang Tzu's, about preparing rooster's for fighting. This is not my favorite translation, but:

Chi Hsing-tzu was training gamecocks for the king. After ten days the king asked if they were ready.

"Not yet. They're too haughty and rely on their nerve."

Another ten days and the king asked again.

"Not yet. They still respond to noises and movements."

Another ten days and the king asked again.

"Not yet. They still look around fiercely and are full of spirit."

Another ten days and the king asked again.

"They're close enough. Another cock can crow and they show no sign of change. Look at them from a distance and you'd think they were made of wood. Their virtue is complete. Other cocks won't dare face them, but will turn and run."

http://www.terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu2.html

[Kenzan]

3. He's reading my mind. DAMMIT, HE'S READING MY MIND!!! :D (yondan and up... and up... and up...)


That's why I recommend for all yondan and above matches, my patented "Voice-eliminator-and Anti-U.F.O. abduction tm" Tin-foil cap.
It's stylish, functional, and now comes with ultra Mind-Reader-Blocker technology! (patent pending)

Order yours today!
:D

[Charlie]

Does that go over or under the men? Under, right, so they can't see it? :D

[tango]

my question: how do you develop this sense of being "proactive" especially during keiko or even shiai? which one of these are you using most of the time?

he said, it's the hardest one to learn because you're integrating both no. 1 and 2 together and taking it to a higher level. he also added that it'll make a person's kendo better.

is this just something you learn after x yrs of kendo? not something you learn in a month or two like kote-men uchi.


Speaking of only my own experience, I would say it is not something you learn (like kote-men, or harai-men, or whatever), rather, it's something that you develop, and this development really seems to come only over time and practice.

As with seme, it's not a matter of a teacher explaining to the student how to "do" seme... Student really has to learn and develop his own seme (for lack of better terminology), to find out what works for him, to find out what's effective against the opponent he's facing right now because:
1. what works for one person might not work for another, and
2. what works against one opponent, might not work against another.

I think kendo can be frustratingly simple and complex at the same time.
It seems that when you start out with training, concepts are explained to you using simple and direct terms...
....and over time, you just figure out that the simplicities of kendo can get very deep and complex. And then, when somebody asks you about certain things, all you can do is boil down the very deep and complex items to very simple, uncomplicated, direct terms.
...seems this process just repeats itself over and over

[taganahan]

yargh! so this one can only be developed in due time, as one grows in wisdom and knowledge. i guess the only obstacle i see in learning this is time, but it never is too early to learn it right?

and yes i agree with you guys. i tried doing this last practise but it just ended up me opening up to them like a motodachi does, which wasn't what i'm trying to do. lol.

if only there's a way....

~taganahan

[Neil Gendzwill]

it never is too early to learn it right?Well, actually it is. Whenever I see a shodan guy trying to play that style (lots of pressure to create a chance), it just comes off like he's lazy. You have to go through all the steps.

[MAZ77]

Well, actually it is. Whenever I see a shodan guy trying to play that style (lots of pressure to create a chance), it just comes off like he's lazy. You have to go through all the steps.

That is a really interesting observation and I whole heartedly agree. Even if by some small chance, this shodan guy is actually good at this style, it is atypical at that level and even frowned upon. I think at some point it actually destroys the persons kendo a little up the line.

[enkorat]

A few years ago I had an interesting discussion with one of my senseis. At the time I was training to take my ikkyu examination, and another member of my club who had been training along with me had decided to withdraw from taking the same examination. He had sort of decided rather casually after committing some time before and already training with the intention of taking the exam. He had neglected to inform our mutual sensei of his decision to withdraw, perhaps thinking that I would tell our sensei.

When my sensei inquired about where he had been recently, I mentioned that he had decided to withdraw from testing, and my sensei was taken aback. After a pause, he then told me that this was "very bad in kendo".

He explained that in Kendo's way of thinking and philosophy, that once you committed to a course of action, you carried it through to the end. So it wasn't simply a matter of committing to a single "strike", but was also how you were expected to conduct yourself in the larger picture of kendo, if it was a matter of saying "yes I will be in charge of renting the van for everyone to go to the tournament", backing out of a commitment was equivalent to not having proper "zanshin". He explained that since we were testing outside of our federation, and we had already gone through the channels getting approval from our regional president, backing out at that point was not good.

I think this was the first time that I realized that not only were there kendo expectations within practice, but the expectation, at least from our sensei that we were expected to conduct ourselves mentally along the same lines as the philosophy of kendo, even outside of the dojo.

I've seen the three ways of acting before, and I don't necessarily think that its a linear course, but rather three positive elements I should keep in mind.

For example, the first one is to "take action". What does this mean to me? I sort of view it as a choice between "to take action" and "to be passive", or "to try" or "to not try". A good sort of example that comes to mind is trying to convince beginners that just got into bogu that that its a good idea to compete. Sometimes people get cold feet and I end up having to do an intervention, and one of my points I always tell people that regardless of your opponent, if you "take action" there is always a possibility of a positive outcome (perhaps a win). If you decide not to go out into the ring, there is no possibility of a positive outcome at all (a guaranteed loss). In waza terms, I suppose the best way to summarize my idea is if you don't attack, you may not lose, but you won't likely win either.

The second one is "react". But what does it mean to react? React to what? It of course could mean oji-waza, where one is reacting to a particular waza or technique. But to me "reacting" also means being adaptable and flexible. If the situation within which I'm fighting changes midgame, or I'm fighting a different kind of opponent, I need to be adaptable to the situation and flexible in my plan of action. Taking action alone, for example repeating the same action over and over thinking that at least once it will work or "trying harder" without reacting to a changing situation or taking into account what "works" and what "doesn't work" seems counter-productive.

The third one is "to be proactive". What draws me to this quote is the idea of "the one who is in control". To me, I think its important to keep in mind that any match, any confrontation, any fight for that matter is a question of maintaining control over a situation. Sure one particular element is to "trick" the other person into doing something, but having "lost control" more than several times in kendo and in life in general, to me its a larger picture. This is hardest for me to explain.

I think the best way to explain my position is that there are a multitude of ways one can "lose control". To me, right now the hardest is "losing control" over my own mental focus, mainly due to doubt creeping in at the wrong time. But I've seen situations where the "loss of control" occurs because of a break in emotional control, another is a "loss of control" through loss of control of maai.

I think "seme" is (very) important, but perhaps in what I understand might be a little narrow in interpretation. If I were to answer "is it too early" to learn these things, I don't think so. A lot of what I struggle with in kendo and in larger life centers around these sorts of things. I think for me its hard because it represents a shift in mental attitude, which I think takes longer and is harder to "fix" than simply learning a new set of wazas.

Thats what I think, at least.

[Rob1981]

This puts me in mind of a story I read about an old master who told one of his students about a scroll containing the greatest lesson any swordsman could learn, the student searched for it for many years and when he eventually found it it simply said "cut your opponent before he cuts you". The student wasn't ready to fully absorb the lesson and threw it away.

I think that's from the book of five rings but I'm not sure.

[Bokushingu]

A few years ago I had an interesting discussion with one of my senseis. At the time I was training to take my ikkyu examination, and another member of my club who had been training along with me had decided to withdraw from taking the same examination. He had sort of decided rather casually after committing some time before and already training with the intention of taking the exam. He had neglected to inform our mutual sensei of his decision to withdraw, perhaps thinking that I would tell our sensei.

When my sensei inquired about where he had been recently, I mentioned that he had decided to withdraw from testing, and my sensei was taken aback. After a pause, he then told me that this was "very bad in kendo".

He explained that in Kendo's way of thinking and philosophy, that once you committed to a course of action, you carried it through to the end. So it wasn't simply a matter of committing to a single "strike", but was also how you were expected to conduct yourself in the larger picture of kendo, if it was a matter of saying "yes I will be in charge of renting the van for everyone to go to the tournament", backing out of a commitment was equivalent to not having proper "zanshin". He explained that since we were testing outside of our federation, and we had already gone through the channels getting approval from our regional president, backing out at that point was not good.

I think this was the first time that I realized that not only were there kendo expectations within practice, but the expectation, at least from our sensei that we were expected to conduct ourselves mentally along the same lines as the philosophy of kendo, even outside of the dojo.

This is a very good read, enkorat. we had a few beginners that bought hakama/keiko-gi and wore it to class a few times then they decided to wear sweats a week after that. I told them no going backwards you need to allways wear your uniform in class now. Didn't know how to explain it like how you wrote, but my sensei said he will talk to them.

[Kenshi]

That is a really interesting observation and I whole heartedly agree. Even if by some small chance, this shodan guy is actually good at this style, it is atypical at that level and even frowned upon. I think at some point it actually destroys the persons kendo a little up the line.

This got me thinking about something that I (and we all) went/go through: the almost insistence that you just attack-attack-attack all the time. This is a definite teaching strategy within kendo not only for adult beginners in the west, but for kids in Japan (up until they are young adults).

Im not a positive person in this respect and found it really hard. Im using the past tense, but I still am in this mode with loads of my sempai and the vast majority of my sensei.

Kids can do this easily enought because they dont think too deeply on it, adults however are a lot more resistant to it. "I can see he wants me to hit men, but if I go for it hes going to kaeshi-do me...so..."

A solution to this is to attack your sempai/sensei but experiment on your kohai/with guys same level (after youve taken the 1st ippon that is). Shiai is often a good chance to try new things. As well as this, dont overlook kata... they are an excellent tool to develop these strategies.

In otherwords, the ability comes with maturity in your kendo, but that doesnt mean you have to wait to start developing an interest/experimentation in it.

Kind of like reading a porn mag when your 11.

[bullet08]

my understanding is there is only way 'act' of kendo. that is always initiate the move. even if you are 'reacting', make sure you are pressuring the aite to attack by using seme. therefore, you are still the one initiating the move. or something like that. never become inactive. if i have to add two more acts to this that would be drink beer while sitting down, and drink beer while standing up. there is another one which is drink beer on your back.. but you might need strew for that one.

pete