Kendo....something.

[ahmed61086]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVmTVzz2SOc


I only understood a few things, but it seemed realy funny.

[Oroshi]

Interesting. Did you get what it was about? Want a rough translation? :D

[Kingofmyrrh]

I love the way they're completely unsurprised by this fact... I've only ever seen it happen once personally.

[ahmed61086]

I love the way they're completely unsurprised by this fact... I've only ever seen it happen once personally.

A point being cancelled? It has happened in one of my matches b4. But yeh, Ive only seen it once(twice including the video) as well.

[ahmed61086]

Interesting. Did you get what it was about? Want a rough translation? :D

Sure, I would appreciate it.

[Oroshi]

Sure, I would appreciate it.
Oh joy! :D I need the practice.

Right, just briefly, the juicy bits:
剣道の試合で一本をとった後ガッツポーズをすると取り消しになる
In a kendo shiai, if a player strikes a victory pose after scoring a point, the point will be withdrawn.

According to ZNKR director Matsunaga:
確かに剣道の試合で一本をとった後ガッツポーズをすると取り消しになります。礼儀を重んじる剣道ではガッツ ポーズは相手に対して失礼な行為とみなされるため審判の権限で一本を取り消すことが出来るので す
Undoubtedly, if the player strikes a victory pose in a kendo shiai after the point is awarded, it will be withdrawn. Good etiquette is very important in kendo, and a victory pose is seen as discourteous behaviour towards one's opponent, so the umpires have the authority to withdraw the point.

From the shinpan rules:
試合者に不適切な行為があった場合は、主審が有効打突の宣告をした後でも、審判員は合議の上、その宣告を取 り消すことが出来る。
If a competitor displays inappropriate behaviour, even after the chief umpire has pronounced a valid strike the umpires can, following consultation, withdraw the verdict.

[ahmed61086]

Oh joy! :D I need the practice.

Right, just briefly, the juicy bits:

In a kendo shiai, if a player strikes a victory pose after scoring a point, the point will be withdrawn.

According to ZNKR director Matsunaga:

Undoubtedly, if the player strikes a victory pose in a kendo shiai after the point is awarded, it will be withdrawn. Good etiquette is very important in kendo, and a victory pose is seen as discourteous behaviour towards one's opponent, so the umpires have the authority to withdraw the point.

From the shinpan rules:

If a competitor displays inappropriate behaviour, even after the chief umpire has pronounced a valid strike the umpires can, following consultation, withdraw the verdict.

Thanks so much!

Eventhough I kind of figured that much :smoker: , but what was up with the "game show" parts?

[Kenshi]

Hilarious!

It has happened in one of my matches b4.

Too you by any chance?

but what was up with the "game show" parts?

Its Japan... thats what 80% of tv shows are like.

[Jin509]

the first thing that came to mind while reading Oroshi's translation was "tae kwon do" LOL~

[kim]

Whoa.... I seams a little harsh at first, but after thinking about it the guy did raise his fist in a victory salute. IMO It would be better to see him deducted the point this time so that he and all the rest of us remember that we are supposed to show correct rei-gi at all times to our fellow kendoka. I personally would not like go down the line of punching the air or compleating little victory dances as seen in some other sporting competitions.

[Chaby]

Thanks Oroshi!
Great translation.

[NigelSponge]

Good vid, also if i remember correctly when going back to his spot he went in front of the shimpan, im not sure if the judges were at the ring boundaries making it impossible for him to go around. But if he was able to i would think it would be the more etiquette(ish) thing to do. Is this correct? or is it ok to go infront of the judges after getting a point?

[Dervish]

Victory pose??

Did people ever do that during a Kendo tournament? Were they trying to copy Cloud's sword twirl from Final Fantasy 7?

[Charlie]

Wow, never saw anything like that before.

[Kenzan]

Oh!
That's the "heeeeeeeeeee" show I call it!
Because the buzzers go "heeeeeeeee!"
(Which sort of means: ORLY? I didn't know that.)

It on here in L.A. on Sat. nights.
Good stuff.

[D'Artagnan]

Victory pose??

Did people ever do that during a Kendo tournament? Were they trying to copy Cloud's sword twirl from Final Fantasy 7?


Actually the "Guts Pose" （ガッツポーズ）, from what I'm told, comes from a famous boxer - Guts Ishimatsu - who used to strike that particular 'fist pumping' (oo-err) victory pose quite often.

I've seen it happen in Kendo in the UK once, and nothing was done about it. However, I saw a kid at the European Championships have his point withdrawn for 'celebrating' by strutting and shouting to his team-mates...

[ahmed61086]

Hilarious!



Too you by any chance?



Its Japan... thats what 80% of tv shows are like.


Nope, not to me. What happened was, my aite went for men, but he didn't take center so he recieved a tsuki from me. In my opinion it clearly was not ippon. Two of the shimpan raised their flags, I looked towards the first shimpan and was like "Oh, I expected that from you" then I looked to the second and he looked at my face and saw my mouth hanging wide open in Shock(it was a genuine gesture, I wasn't doing it on purpose). Then he did teh meeting thing, and took away his call, therefore only one judge called the point, so they took away his point. Thats how I saw it. It didn't have to do with any disrespectful stuff though.

I know it sounds retarded, but thats how it went down, I think.

[tgsfg]

That's pretty strict right there. This is a high school tournament no? It was really small and subtle too I think. Having said all that, I'm very glad the shimpans were strict on this matter.

True story:
USKU adult kyu finals. It was 1:1, and I had just gotten an ippon. Next round, my opponent hit my tsuba, and I countered with men. Two shimpans gave him kote and one gave me the men. Right before the head judge yelled out "seung!" (I don't know what that is in Japanese. It means "win"). He pumped one fist over his head and yelled "YEA!" The judges gave him a look, but let it go. I'm still a bit bitter about this whole match, but only because of his pose at the end.

[ahmed61086]

That's pretty strict right there. This is a high school tournament no? It was really small and subtle too I think. Having said all that, I'm very glad the shimpans were strict on this matter.

True story:
USKU adult kyu finals. It was 1:1, and I had just gotten an ippon. Next round, my opponent hit my tsuba, and I countered with men. Two shimpans gave him kote and one gave me the men. Right before the head judge yelled out "seung!" (I don't know what that is in Japanese. It means "win"). He pumped one fist over his head and yelled "YEA!" The judges gave him a look, but let it go. I'm still a bit bitter about this whole match, but only because of his pose at the end.

Personally, if I ever get to the level where I am able to shimpan, I am going to rule the Shiaijo with an iron fist! Im not going to take any prisoners, and any "posing" will be squashed immediately with supreme prejudice.

[xvikingx]

That's pretty strict right there. This is a high school tournament no? It was really small and subtle too I think.

Well those are the rules my friend. Even if you kind of step out of bounds you are still out of bounds, and you will get called for it. Depending on how serious his coach and/or schoolmates are, it’s quite possible this kid may have received a full on beating for losing that point.

[tgsfg]

Well those are the rules my friend. Even if you kind of step out of bounds you are still out of bounds, and you will get called for it. Depending on how serious his coach and/or schoolmates are, it’s quite possible this kid may have received a full on beating for losing that point.

Yea, I'm all for it. I like strict on shiai and on kendo in general. It just seems strict to me because I've seen worse conduct go unpunished several times. You all remember that video of the Las Vegas competition? The guy with long hair doing all sorts of ahole things.

[xvikingx]

You all remember that video of the Las Vegas competition? The guy with long hair doing all sorts of ahole things.
Yes. That was pathetic.

[tgsfg]

Yes. That was pathetic.

Yea. I would love to see that guy's facial expression if a shimpan cancels his point. Better yet, if the shimpan drop kicks him in the face.

[ahmed61086]

Yea. I would love to see that guy's facial expression if a shimpan cancels his point. Better yet, if the shimpan drop kicks him in the face.

Hahaahah, that guy was pretty bad, but I got something special for you guys right here,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Jols-rTdZs


Just watch the end of the video to the the celebration.

[Paburo]

i've seen torikaeshi once but it was not for celebrating on the shiaijo. it was because right after the point was called the guy over (i mean ooooover) relaxed and cut his zanshin and kiai on the fly just for no apparent reason.... obviously this is something only a newbie would do.

the judges called gogi and cancelled the point for lack of zanshin and poor spirit after the cut.

on the other hand, i've seen a couple victory poses within the shiaijo that havent been torikaeshi-ed....

[Chaby]

In one tournament two of the judges raised the flag for kote,and the player to whom was awarded the kote, shook his head as "no it wasn't",and lost the point.
After we asked what happend,he said:
"it was tsuba"
That's his way.

As for the video I agree,tournaments needs to be strict.Can you imagine everybody dancing the Jig right after ippon.
What's next.
A "Baywatch" babe introduction with music?(the eye of the tiger) :-)

[Ignatz]

. . .Even if you kind of step out of bounds you are still out of bounds, and you will get called for it. . . .

That rule is often called incorrectly. You need to step completely out of bounds. In other words, if half of your foot is out there is no hansoku, the whole foot needs to be out. If, on the other hand, you put your hand on the ground out of bounds, hansoku or if your shinai touches the ground out of bounds, hansoku. It is not "breaking the plane" like in football.

If you get knocked down, no hansoku but if you get knocked down and slide across the floor and part of your body goes out, hansoku. (put the breaks on when you are sliding)

At least this is my understanding of the rules.

[Kenzan]

Hahaahah, that guy was pretty bad, but I got something special for you guys right here,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Jols-rTdZs


Just watch the end of the video to the the celebration.

One word.

Zero forward momentum..

Oh wait..that's three words..
:D

Edit:
Can I do better?

Gulp..we;ll see. I have my first Shiai tomorrow.
Videos of shame to be posted!
:D

[xvikingx]

the whole foot needs to be out
I understand that. My point is if you break the rules you will get called on it whether you just kind of pump your fist in celebration or you do the Super Bowl Shuffle.
Ah, the Super Bowel Shuffle.... William Perry moved like an angel.

[xvikingx]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Jols-rTdZs
That whole match was annoying to watch. I bet the reason they didn't call him on it is because the shimpan didn't want to sit through any more of that.

[Ignatz]

That whole match was annoying to watch. I bet the reason they didn't call him on it is because the shimpan didn't want to sit through any more of that.

I would bet with you on that.

[nonamehandle]

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=fEro3z8Xa2w

what is going on at 4:55?

i have not heard of points being taken away for celebrating in the highest levels of kendo competition. i would love to be proven incorrect. personally i would have preferred more decorum from the us kenshi, but a shimpan would need to have several balls of steel to have the guts to take a point away in that situation.

[samurai80]

I don't understand what you're seeing at 4:55. The only thing I can see is right before that, the men might actually have gone to the Japanese, but I'm not gonna tell Chris Yang that.

[nonamehandle]

I don't understand what you're seeing at 4:55. The only thing I can see is right before that, the men might actually have gone to the Japanese, but I'm not gonna tell Chris Yang that.

chris yang celebrating that he got the point. his behaviour was discussed somewhere else as well i think. do i think that celebrating is wrong? not too sure on what position to take, but just pointing out to this thread, that it does happen, in the highest levels of kendo, without any penalties. so to be a little bit skeptical of some assertions that are presented here re: rei in kendo.

[samurai80]

Oh...you mean the little arm pump thing he tried to throw in? Yeh, that aint cool.

[Andrew S]

There is a clause in the ZNKR rules about "posing" and having points deducted for it.

[Winter516]

well i find it fair that the point was revoked as 'arm pumps' sort of.... degrade kendo and turn it to more of a game then a art

[Dervish]

well i find it fair that the point was revoked as 'arm pumps' sort of.... degrade kendo and turn it to more of a game then a art

Certainly. We wouldn't want Kendo to become like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8X6ja9MoHc).

[cruzemi]

Yea, I'm all for it. I like strict on shiai and on kendo in general. It just seems strict to me because I've seen worse conduct go unpunished several times. You all remember that video of the Las Vegas competition? The guy with long hair doing all sorts of ahole things.

never seen the video. care to share?

[Phil-co]

never seen the video. care to share?

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=gLmRK6VZeP8

There you go.

[Kagerou]

His hair alone should count as hansoku. All the women with long hair figured out how to keep theirs from flying about so he should be able to as well. He looks like a predator wannabe.

[Andrew S]

That's just wrong.

[Phil-co]

His hair alone should count as hansoku. All the women with long hair figured out how to keep theirs from flying about so he should be able to as well. He looks like a predator wannabe.

Isn't it at least a safety issue? With all that thick hair flying around you're bound to get caught with your shinai ...