A valid yuko-datotsu?

[Legionario]

I would like to hear a comment from the more experienced people in the forum concerning this video:

http://www.edu.city.kyoto.jp/hp/hiyoshi/movie/01sinjin-yagi.mpg

Can it really be considered a valid yuko-datotsu?

This is the page from where I took it:
http://www.edu.city.kyoto.jp/hp/hiyoshi/htm_jp/club/kendo/01sinjin-josi.htm

According to the official IKF Kendo Shiai and Shinpan Regulations a valid strike (yuko-datotsu) must consist of the following elements;

“SECTION 2- Article 17. Yuko-datotsu is defined as the accurate striking or thrusting made onto Datotsu-bui of the opponent’s Kendo-gu with Shinai at its Datotsu-bu in high spirits and correct posture, being followed by Zanshin.”

Letting alone that being the point scored with an hiki-waza, we are then supposed to see a forward movement at the moment of the impact.

[ben]

I think you are assuming that "zanshin" implies forward movement. It does not. FWIW not the best hiki men I've ever seen, but it's only high school kendo, and everyone there seemed to like it.

b

[Bokushingu]

I was told so long as the feeling is that you are moving forward than it is ok. I'm also told that the judges can tell if you were feeling as though you were moving forward. I don't know because i have not reached the judge level. I have attempted hiki waza at taikai but never received yuko for it but i can admit i did not feel as though i was striking forward.

[MikeW]

In a lot of hiki waza there is a weight transfer and projection of ki that are 'weight forward' commitments, even thought the ultimate effect is to go backwards. In the video even though his body is moving backwards he comes down on his foot with a forward strike using weight transfer and projects his shinai. This is still commitment to attack and projection of ki (IMHO).

[Inner_Silence]

besides in kyu ompetition judges allow everything

[DoctorP]

Looks like a clean hit to me. I see this quite often watching matches with children and teens here. As you age, you are less likely to receive that point though.

[Koban]

Its not really the best Hiki-men ever but it has everything there!
he/she? struck with the hasuji, with proper ki-ken-tai and had good zanshin!

zanshin is showing awarness of your opponent, fighting spirit, control of the situation and being prepared for an attack from your opponent. this means it can go forwards or backwards depending on the waza! Hiki is going backwards so zanshin is going backwards but need to be prepared!

Koban

[Legionario]

Ok. Thanks everybody.

[ZtefaNNN[K]]

Its not really the best Hiki-men ever but it has everything there!
he/she? struck with the hasuji, with proper ki-ken-tai and had good zanshin!

zanshin is showing awarness of your opponent, fighting spirit, control of the situation and being prepared for an attack from your opponent. this means it can go forwards or backwards depending on the waza! Hiki is going backwards so zanshin is going backwards but need to be prepared!

Koban
I think that´s a good response, besides it´s hard to tell from a video alone, a lot comes to circumstances.

[samurai999]

looked and sounded like a good hiki men to me. If i were a good shimpan, i probably wouldn't miss that. In hiki-men, zanshin is your body going backwards with the shinai, in general, over your head at a 45 degree angle to the floor.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You can go back in chudan as well. Just don't do it halfways, ie up to jodan and then back to chudan before you are out of danger.

[TP Mole]

Movement back or forward is surely not the issue with yuko datotsu! If the cutting movement is valid backward movement can be effective - consider the (ko dachi ZNKR) kata where in hiki waza the sword is drawn back through the opponent before taking the kamae (in this case jodan). Good cuts should be scored but sometimes, especially with hiki waza, the weakness is that there is a hit (!), the sword is simply bounced up and the upper body weight is used to give momentum to the backward movement. If there is a cut, momentum comes from the hips and zanshin continues into a good kamae (chudan or jodan) this can be yuko datostu.

[tango]

wow. 2 yr old thread back from the dead.