Jodan for women???? [Archive] - Kendo World Forums

mishamo

30-07-2007, 08:41 AM

gir

30-07-2007, 09:14 AM

I dunno maybe there is a Thread with this theme, but when so i dindnt find it and its sooo important for me....

i wanna start to train Jodan but ...dunno, is there any chance if a women wanna do it? or is this the stupids idea you ever heard??

i have a good physical strain but i m just 173cm ,so not sooo huge....
maybe you can help me ...
is there a chance for me to do it or better let my hands down in chudan no kamae???

will be very happy if you can help me :)

I think if you want to do it speak to your Sensei, I can't for the life of me think of any reason why you can't.. Unless its a rule somewhere that I don't know of? But your Sensei should know for sure... Would be good to see

Kenshi

30-07-2007, 09:36 AM

In Japan its seems to be very popular for women to do jodan nowadays.... I see so many female jodan kenshi its crazy. Go for it.

Lady_Kitsune

30-07-2007, 09:42 AM

I don't see any problem for you to try Jodan. Just one thing, ask your sensei if you are ready.

Rularn

30-07-2007, 10:27 AM

I had a nice reply going but it got erased.

Basically, more women in Japan can do jodan since higher chance they face other women in shiai. Elsewhere, you may face taller people which may make jodan less effective.

Talk with your sensei and give it a try.

gir

30-07-2007, 10:34 AM

I don't think any Female Kendoka in Australia are doing it, well, none I know of and none in the nationals... Kinda strange when you consider how many males are doing it.

Ignatz

30-07-2007, 10:42 AM

Couple of women here do Jodan and do it pretty good.

Kenshi

30-07-2007, 10:45 AM

Right!

If you want to truly learn kendo I think that taking time to learn jodan is mandatory. Whether this is casually over a period of a few years or intensly for a couple... either way, the study of jodan can only increase your knowledge of kendo. Males and females have equal right to that knowledge and height isnt important.

My caveat being that you probably want a good deal of experience in chudan before you move up there.

The problem might be that there is nobody that can really teach it..... and if there are no female role-models that can cause a problem too.

fyi, most people who do jodan over here are active competitors.. they tend to go back into chudan when their career is over. I have lots of ex-jodan people amongst my sempai.

(I am also of the opinion that doing nito before spending a good deal of time in jodan is... premature... but thats a different thread)

nikozamo

30-07-2007, 11:11 AM

you need to do a lot of extra training... its hard, but if you want to do it... will be a pleasure!!!

im trained jodan now by 3 months and i will need a lot of more time, actually i didnt get in the chilean team because i still **** in jodan... BUT i will enter next time!!!

ganbatte!

Ignatz

30-07-2007, 11:26 AM

. . .(I am also of the opinion that doing nito before spending a good deal of time in jodan is... premature... but thats a different thread)

I don't do jodan too much but when I do, it is gyaku jodan so it is very much like when I do nito with daito in my right hand.

I do it that way because of problems with my left hand and arm which is really the only reason I do it at all.

Kenshi

30-07-2007, 11:57 AM

Sometimes it cant be helped... like this guy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eikenkai/777274296/in/set-72157594557594601/).

Lady_Kitsune

30-07-2007, 12:01 PM

Great pictures!!!!

Kenshi

30-07-2007, 12:13 PM

Great pictures!!!!

First time youve looked at them? Loads there (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eikenkai/sets/72157594557594601/).

Lady_Kitsune

30-07-2007, 12:49 PM

Great pictures indeed!

JoonShik

30-07-2007, 01:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoIYnE2PhYA

The final match in the 13th World Kendo Championship. I don't see a reason why females can't do Jodan

Lady_Kitsune

30-07-2007, 01:50 PM

They are really cool!

gir

30-07-2007, 02:02 PM

One armed Kendoka... That never fails to inspire...

mishamo

30-07-2007, 06:10 PM

wow, thank you so much for you concepts...now if i read your posts, of course i will start to train jodan....it will be a hard way but im very intent to make new experience thank you all for your backing ...:)

gir

30-07-2007, 06:17 PM

Good Luck. Let us know what your Sensei says..

mishamo

30-07-2007, 06:38 PM

thank you...yes the best think will be to ask him..but i was a little bit mhhh cagey to ask him cause i didnt want that he make a look on me like im mad but now....i will have a looong talk to him we will see what he is going to say....i let you know what he says...^^

babayaga

30-07-2007, 08:11 PM

i wanna start to train Jodan but ...dunno, is there any chance if a women wanna do it? or is this the stupids idea you ever heard??

OK, I'm just an iaika but I don't understand why someone would *not* train in all the kamae (at least eventually). Sure, it might not be particularly useful against most opponents, but neither are a bunch of the judo throws I've learned. I don't get a pass on learning them just because of my size. I still train in them as best I can, because there *are* people out there who are shorter and lighter than me. It would seem to me to be a good thing to have a well-rounded selection of techniques because one never knows what an opponent will bring.

I'd think it would be included in kata as well. I mean, the chances of me ever pulling off a kata-guruma in competition are nil but I still have to learn kata-guruma for nage-no-kata. The techniques I struggle with most in learning a kata are the ones I don't have a base familarity with.

-Beth

Paburo

30-07-2007, 08:25 PM

mishamo, what is your rank? and where do you train?

i think your height is pretty good for a girl.... but i've been told that the most important feature you must have is a strong and resistant left wrist/arm/hand...

JSchmidt

30-07-2007, 08:25 PM

OK, I'm just an iaika but I don't understand why someone would *not* train in all the kamae

Because it takes time and dedication, which could be spent on improving other areas.
Because it's difficult to find teachers/seniors that can help you out.

mishamo

30-07-2007, 09:06 PM

mishamo, what is your rank? and where do you train?

im just 1dan, make it last year and i train in germany nrw we have some great senseis there.
sometimes some of them fight jodan in shiais but just when they met a nito ryu....my sensei fight nito and before he starts with nito he also make some time jodan in preparation for his left hand....maybe one good case is that in a neighbor town ( ok not so naighbor 2 hours away :disapp: ) there is a club where hp herr is training the one who is in the grman national team and also fight jodan.
...if i started to go there he can give me some aid...or he says go back make your 3 dan and than we talk again....
:confused2

lucy

30-07-2007, 11:59 PM

I'm assuming that you got your shodan in Germany, so you have at least 3 and a half years of experience, probably more, right?

I'm from NRW as well, where do you train?

Ignatz

31-07-2007, 12:11 AM

. . .It would seem to me to be a good thing to have a well-rounded selection of techniques because one never knows what an opponent will bring.. . .

To follow the judo line of thought, in the past I often ran into people who wanted to learn nage but didn't want to take the time to learn how to fall. Or perhaps they didn't want to learn ogoshi because ippon seoinage from your knees is cooler.

In kendo often people who are not even remotely proficient with chudan want to take up jodan or nito because they think it is a) cool and/or b) will make up for their deficiencies in chudan.

They are cool but without a strong understanding of chudan, you are usually really wasting everyone's time.

So, sure, in your multi-decade kendo career, jodan and nito are things you should work on but if your chudan is not there you probably won't be any better with them. Of course, if there is some physical limitation that makes chudan hard or impossible, that is different. You are not doing it because you are unwilling to learn chudan.

nikozamo

31-07-2007, 04:32 AM

good point ignatz. but what happen if someone feels its ''better'' or actually is more easy to play in jodan than chudan? not just in the physical part; also/or in the mental (or spiritual) part of kendo?

in my case is a little like that, and now im just giving some time to jodan practice to know if really i will be a jodan player pemantently or i will not give up, but make 80% chudan in my kendo life.

Lady_Kitsune

31-07-2007, 04:57 AM

I wish i could use Jodan... but I'm too new for trying that yet.

But again for you, mishamo, good luck with your training

JSchmidt

31-07-2007, 05:19 AM

They are cool but without a strong understanding of chudan, you are usually really wasting everyone's time.

I disagree somewhat. My chudan has improved despite mainly using jodan, because you are still doing kendo.
Also, using jodan *will* force the lesson of seme and footwork upon you, as people around you will very quickly adopt to your timing and relatively limited arsenal of techniques. This is the hard lesson from doing jodan and it takes awhile to overcome...but it can be done.
I was a freshly minted nidan when I started and probably shouldn't have*...but I've stuck with it and it has turned out ok.

Jakob

* If someone at my skill level back then came and asked me today if I thought they should do it, I'd say no :)

mishamo

31-07-2007, 05:33 AM

I wish i could use Jodan... but I'm too new for trying that yet.

But again for you, mishamo, good luck with your training

Thank you Lady_Kitsune i hope i make some new experience with jodan and i hope that makes me stronger regardless in which way....maybe just mental maybe physical...:)

manaxpower

31-07-2007, 05:56 AM

I'm not sure what your sensei would say, but from what I've heard from people around me it is an understanding that people should start jodan when you're at least 3 dan. Either way, I feel like shodan is too early to start jodan. I'm nidan and I don't feel ready to start something new already, I still have a lot to learn and a lot to work on. I have a friend who does kendo at another club, and one of the kids there didn't listen to my friend not to start jodan because he wasn't ready. I think you really need good basics to start jodan, and I don't think there really is a need to rush to learn jodan.

But your 170+cm height will work to your advantage, I think.

mishamo

31-07-2007, 06:15 AM

Ignatz

31-07-2007, 07:27 AM

I disagree somewhat. ---followed by good points...

I used the word usually because without it you could have said, I disagree completely.:eek:

My problem is who are you going to play? When I first started nito I only wanted to do it with sensei because I thought it would be a waste of time (selfishly I thought it would waste my time) I started playing the higher ranks and learned from them. Someone pointed out that if I played the lower ranks it might help them so I do.

I still play chudan most of the time (partially because nito is so dang hard) and find that nito either improved my chudan or my chudan improved on it's own or I am imagining the whole thing.

We have two jodan players (one male and one female) and they are getting better every week.

Kenshi

31-07-2007, 09:35 AM

I agree 100% with what Ignatz said and also with what Jakob said.

Just to throw this out there: (in my experience) Most kids who do jodan over here seem to be told to do it by their teachers once they hit high school. "You are tall, do/try jodan" type of thing. At that point the kids are probably only shodan or nidan- but thats not what counts - its the xyrs of kendo they do before that.

Ive never known anyone to go into jodan that is an adult. People who do nito usually start as adults, however (ive never seen a single nito-kid).

For the majority of us waiting until we are 4dan or whatever to try jodan is too long... like Jakob I would say starting at 2dan would be fine as long as you have a teacher and models to look too.

For me, fighting a bad jodan person isnt terribly annoying and it doesnt interfere with my kendo too much. A bad nito person is, however, a blight on the face of mankind. Backyard, gun, hood.

Ignatz

31-07-2007, 10:03 AM

. . .
For me, fighting a bad jodan person isnt terribly annoying and it doesnt interfere with my kendo too much. A bad nito person is, however, a blight on the face of mankind. Backyard, gun, hood.

Bad nito is ugly while good nito is a thing of beauty. If you start out in nito and go to the dark side you will never have beautiful nito kendo because people will avoid you like the plague.

manaxpower

31-07-2007, 10:32 AM

i think sometimes when there is no one that makes something "new" there will be no advance

I don't believe that actually. You don't have to do something "new" to advance. It takes an entire lifetime to perfect your men strike or even a kamae. Taking the steps to perfecting your men may seem repetitive and old, but that is how you advance through your Kendo career.

Ive never known anyone to go into jodan that is an adult.

I do, and I believe he started once he got his 4 Dan. He's in his early 40's, apparently.

A bad nito person is, however, a blight on the face of mankind.

I saw a really bad nito person at a tournament earlier this year. It was just painful to watch, he probably would have done better in chudan.

Kenshi

31-07-2007, 11:34 AM

Bad nito is ugly while good nito is a thing of beauty.

heh heh. Only ever faced 2 people that could do it, and have only seen maybe 2 or 3 more people beyond that who were good. Can wait for a bash with you.....

I do, and I believe he started once he got his 4 Dan. He's in his early 40's, apparently.

Sorry, im talking about in Japan, not elsewhere. Maybe you are too. Just because I have never seen it here doesnt mean it doesnt happen over here!!! But I think I can safely say that its pretty rare.

rainmaker

31-07-2007, 01:59 PM

Where there's a will, there's a way... If you really want to go for Jodan, go for it !!! Make sure you consult with your sensei and do it right... However, you will face that many senseis are anti-jodan.

I personally have started my jodan due to my left knee problem. It is getting worse, so I want to practice Jodan for my future kendo.

Lady_Kitsune

31-07-2007, 02:48 PM

Thank you Lady_Kitsune i hope i make some new experience with jodan and i hope that makes me stronger regardless in which way....maybe just mental maybe physical...:)

Oh is both cos Jodan needs strenght and a clear mind... The best defense in Jodan is attack all the time ;)

nikozamo

31-07-2007, 09:49 PM

...However, you will face that many senseis are anti-jodan...

that happens to me! my japanese sensei and my chilean senseis dont like i doing jodan, just because they dont know how to do it...(the chilean senseis) but i have the support of my friends and my senpais. I do ''my'' kendo and sensei or not they will not say me you cant do it... and they will need to accept it soon or late.

**if sound a little revolutionary.... im always like that... :D

ReKru

31-07-2007, 10:00 PM

maybe one good case is that in a neighbor town ( ok not so naighbor 2 hours away :disapp: ) there is a club where hp herr is training the one who is in the grman national team and also fight jodan.

Little tip: H.P. is smoker and you can find him in the (exclusive :devious: ) smoking areas at tournaments in the Rhein-Main area (3W, Yamashibu, Tengu Cup, Lich etc.) ,to chat a bit about kendo and jodan. :D