Youth and Sports Article, Burn-Out, Longevity

[Charlie]

There was an interesting article in The Wall Street Journal yesterday, I'll try to dig it up, talking about burn-out in youth sports. It said that at a certain point in youth sports the emphasis shifts from enjoying the sport to winning, and those that can't compete with the best of them or meet expectations of parents, coaches and peers for competition burn out and quit the sport.

In other words, they gave the example of a girl who enjoyed swimming. At around the age of nine, other girls she swam with started concentrating on swimming to the extent that they were swimming all year round and focused on winning competitions, and the girl ceased to enjoy swimming and quit. The article said the same thing is observable in gymnastics, baseball, soccer, etc.

I think, personally, that this shows an advantage in kendo, in that kendo is big enough and broad enough to give equal attention to those kenshi that love to compete and win and those kenshi that simply love to do kendo. (I think this must be true even in Japan and Korea or perhaps especially in Japan and Korea, where kenshi can concentrate on being part of the club or group and do their best without feeling they must meet achievement-based goals. In other words, their biggest responsibility is to be a good club member, not to win. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.)

Martial arts in general is like this, in my opinion, and I think all sports can learn something from it. Too often, it seems, parents and coaches do not take the long view of the game; they concentrate on having their children compete at a top level instead of thinking, "Now how do I encourage my kids to enjoy this for the rest of their lives?" That, I think, is the "do" or "Way" view that is an integral part of kendo.

Thoughts?

[Charlie]

Oh! One more thing. The article also said parents can be over-attentive to a child's interest in sports. It gave the example of a guy whose son showed an interest in baseball. So the dad went into hyperdrive, giving the kid all kinds of baseball materials, extra practices - smothering him, basically. The kid started to lose interest. The mom told the dad he was "being a jerk," the dad backed off, and the kid started to like baseball again.

I am encouraged every time I see kids at kendo practice screwing around or shooting baskets after a practice. Shows, I think, a more relaxed atmosphere and letting a kid be a kid. During practice, the kids will be all about kendo. After practice, okay, time to relax a bit and let them read comics and play pro-wrestling.

[Charlie]

Normally, WSJ content is subscriber only. This was in their free section.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118661864741392409.html

All Soccer, All the Time? How
Not to Kill Kids' Love of Sports
August 9, 2007; Page D1
by Sue Shellenbarger

Katie Roper's daughter Ellen likes to play lots of sports -- soccer, basketball, softball and swimming. But even at Ellen's tender age of nine, that's getting hard to do.

Kids in her swim program are dropping other sports to specialize in competitive swimming year-round, and Ellen is having a tough time keeping up. The year-round swimmers tend to beat others badly, says Ms. Roper, of Los Altos, Calif. "I'm sad that soon she'll be discouraged and probably want to quit a sport she loves."

As millions of kids take to fields, courts and rinks this fall, as many as half to two-thirds are destined to quit sports by their teens, largely because they're not having fun, studies show. A trend toward specialization -- pressure for kids to play just one competitive sport year-round -- is one reason, researchers say.

Many kids thrive in competitive year-round programs, learning advanced skills and enjoying expanded opportunities. But the programs can be a bad fit for others, fostering stress and an overemphasis on winning, says a recent focus-group study of 67 school officials, coaches, parents and teens led by Daniel Gould, director of the Institute for the Study of Youth Sports at Michigan State University. Such strains are linked to higher injury risk, reduced motivation and burnout.

For parents who want their kids to embrace sports as a path to lifelong fitness and fun, the trend calls for new vigilance. Here are some early-warning signs that your child may be burning out:
• It's no fun. A child who grows bored, resists practices and games, feigns illness or injury, or retreats to the back of the line in drills, is at high risk of dropping out. Jeffrey L. Brown, a Harvard Medical School psychologist, also cites fatigue, performance worries or a lack of concentration in other activities.


The challenge for parents is to help children hold on to the joy of participating while others are focused primarily on winning. Switching to a community, YMCA or recreational league program can help. But it's usually best to finish the season, says Marty Ewing, an associate professor of kinesiology at Michigan State. Exceptions might include cases when a child is clearly in over her head and can't focus, or is so mismatched with a team that she's at risk of injury.
Work & Family columnist Sue Shellenbarger provides tips for parents to help prevent injury and burnout among young athletes.

• Teammates aren't compatible. Camaraderie is a big source of the fun in sports and its absence can signal trouble. Joy Wyatt's daughter showed early aptitude for gymnastics and worked hard, at age 8, to prepare for her first competition. But when she was forced to sit out with an injury, her teammates were unsupportive and unkind, says Ms. Wyatt of New York. Put off, she decided to quit at the end of season.

• Cheating rears its head. If your child complains about cheating or starts cheating himself, burnout may loom. Blaming a bad call for a loss or error may signal that a child is frustrated, anxious or too focused on winning, Dr. Ewing says. It also may be a clue that you're hovering too much: An in-depth 2006 study of four junior tennis players at North Carolina State University, Raleigh, found parental pressure to win was by far the biggest reason players cited as the cause of cheating.

• Your involvement eclipses your child's. A 2006 Norwegian study of 677 soccer players ages 10 to 14 found children who felt heavy performance pressure from parents and coaches were overconcerned about making mistakes and harsher in their self-criticism.

If you see such emotions in your child, Michael Checchi advises, "take a hard look in the mirror." When Mr. Checchi's son showed early talent for baseball, he immersed him in the sport, enrolling him in off-season training and doing drills at home. But to Mr. Checchi's dismay, his son began at age 13 to lose interest. "The harder I pushed, the more resistance he gave me," recalls the San Ramon, Calif., father. Finally, his wife "told me I was being a jerk," he says. He backed off, and his son's interest in baseball soon reignited.

[Neil Gendzwill]

There was an interesting article in The Wall Street Journal yesterday, I'll try to dig it up, talking about burn-out in youth sports. It said that at a certain point in youth sports the emphasis shifts from enjoying the sport to winning, and those that can't compete with the best of them or meet expectations of parents, coaches and peers for competition burn out and quit the sport.[snip]
Thoughts?
Yes. In other news, water is wet, and the forecast is for it becoming generally colder as we approach December, with a warming trend in March.

[Charlie]

Didn't realize this was old hat, Mr. G! My kids don't do organized sports yet, and it seems when I was a kid that there was plenty of room for the purely recreational sportsman. I was one! Plenty of kids I knew in high school wrestled during wrestling season, played basketball during basketball season, baseball during baseball season, and smoked weed, er, cut grass all summer, and they didn't seem to have uber-attentive sports parents!

[tattooedasshole]

I'm sure that if the money involved in pro sports was in kendo, we would have the same problem. The fact that I can never make millions in kendo takes alot the competative aspects found in sport out of kendo, and makes it more about enjoyment. If, however, one could get a contract as a pro kendoka, make gob amounts of money, the pressure would quickly be on kids to do well so that they can make a career out of it. Maybe get scounted by tallent agents, and so on.
If you couldn't get a baseball contract, I doubt that little league baseball would be half as big as it is, and there certainly wouldn't be half the pressure to do well.

[enkorat]

Something my mom said to me once when she was thinking outloud when I was in high school rings a bell...

"American parents are so..... nice! Its all about the compliment, isn't it? Good job! I'm proud of you! Try better next time! ... heh ..."

As you can guess, I had a more .... traditional upbringing, I suppose...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Actually, Charlie, I find this problem to be getting better, not worse. When I was a kid, you either made the local ball team or you played pickup games with your friends, nothing in-between. Same with hockey. Now they have tiered leagues in most of the sports, so if your kid can't cut it with the top-level athletes, they can still play on a lower tier and have fun. My daughter does this with soccer, she plays on a tier 3 team, is friends with the girls and has fun, win or lose (of course, she prefers winning). But other kids who make the premier league are working much harder, play or practice nearly every day in spring or summer, are expected to play indoor soccer in the winter, have coaches that are really tough on them. Soccer is their life.

[Charlie]

That's good news, Neil! I know conventional, media-driven wisdom says in the U.S. sports-parenting is a major problem but I don't know how much of that is true and how much of that is mild hysteria.

Ken, do Japanese parents address this issue? If I am a Japanese man that loves kendo, how do I pass that on to my kids?*




*"You don't. You work 75 hours a week and live in a company dorm in another town. You only see your kids on Sundays and they fear you, despise you, pity you and hate you." Is that the answer?

[Halcyon]

My kids don't do organized sports yet, and it seems when I was a kid that there was plenty of room for the purely recreational sportsman. I was one!
So, Charlie, what are your thoughts on introducing your kids to kendo?

Even though I don't have kids of my own yet, I've thought about this issue quite a bit, especially as one of the instructors in our dojo and having seen kids come and go over the years. If I have kids, I'm sure I will be tempted to nudge them into kendo, but I've promised myself that I will wait until they tell me that they want to do kendo. And if that never happens, then oh well ... there go my plans for an in-house five-member team. :smiley: Anyway, the point being that if they get into kendo of their own volition, then they will be more likely to stay with it. Then again, kids have a way of foiling even the best laid plans.

[Charlie]

Thoughtful question, Paul, thank you. My kids are quite young so I'm sure they will surprise me, but having said that, I think if you wait for a kid to show initiative towards something besides TV and sweets you may be waiting a long time. I will certainly be encouraging my kids in sports generally and kendo specifically, but I will also respect their desire not to participate (although they will have to finish any seasonal commitment once begun). Be interested to hear Neil's take on this, or anyone else with kids in sports. I have a buddy (who may be lurking?) who has two very active kids and will ask his advice on how he got them interested and kept them interested.

[dukboy123]

I've thought about this a lot too recently. My kids are only two but I'm already worrying if they will enjoy sports, competitive or not. And if they do turn out to like athletics, I'm torn about which way to steer them. Should they do multiple sports and enjoy them all? Just do one sport and really excel? What sports? Conventional stick-and-ball sports, which I really enjoyed as a kid? Wrestling? (the first sport I considered "mine", if you know what I mean) Motorsports, specifically motorcycle riding? (which I still enjoy), Or something unique like Kendo? Can they do it all without becoming overwhelmed? I'm overwhelmed just thinking about the logistics and the expense. And my twins are a boy and girl, thereby expanding the options even more.

And I keep thinking about my experiences, how I wish I had started early in one specific sport and excelled in it. I think, "how far could I have gone if I had started wrestling when I was 5-6 yrs old, like the guys I always saw on the top step of the podium?" Even now, I'm thinking how far I could've come in the Kendo world if I had started earlier than what I did.

Yes, I know I'm all over the place on this issue. Sometimes I just fall back to "I'll just let the whole thing occur naturally and not push the issue..." position and this seems to be the sanest thing. Just let the kids have fun until they really find their niche.

[dukboy123]

Didn't finish my thought :redface:..."until they really find their niche and then let them decide how intense they want to be.".

[Neil Gendzwill]

I had both my kids try kendo and neither of them liked it much. I didn't push the issue. Our approach over the years has been to say "we don't care what activity you choose, but you have to do something physical". My daughter likes sports, my son would slowly become one with the couch if we let him.

My son is playing judo now and has also played softball and soccer. My daughter is an Irish dancer, and plays soccer, basketball and volleyball. We put both of them through swimming lessons until they were safe in the water, and then let them decide when to quit. Both were started in soccer through the local community association quite young (4 or 5) as a good cheap sport and again allowed to decide if they wanted to continue. The other sports were on their own initiative.

My main concern is that my kids are healthy and happy. For health, they've got to do something other than push buttons. For happiness, I believe firmly they have to make their own choices as much as possible, although of course as parents sometimes you have to guide them firmly.

[Halcyon]

I think if you wait for a kid to show initiative towards something besides TV and sweets you may be waiting a long time.
Good point. Hard to compete with. Maybe you could make shinai out of candy cane and have mengane with heads-up video displays.

[MikeW]

I never really enforced any activity rules with my kids. Both have done kendo but neither is really passionate about it. The older one also tried fencing and aikido, but neither was a real draw for her so she doesn't really do any organized sport/activity right now. She does swim and bike and hike and stuff, but not in any kind of serious or scheduled way. My younger daughter is still doing kendo (she is the one that did the Duck Tape thing.. btw we just got the check the other day so she will be getting her own bogu in the near future). The younger one did figure skating and swimming competitively until she hit about 16. She still likes to ice skate and swim but not competitively anymore. She does some other activities but except for kendo nothing that is organized or scheduled. When she was swimming she did not do year round, and it's true that those kids do better as time wears on. But she did not have the desire to do that. We offered her to go into a year round program but she didn't really want to even though she knew it would make her more competitive. She probably would have done more intensive ice skating at least at one point but brother I can tell you that is a rich persons sport and I am not rich..lol. But she won some competitions in both swimming an skating and was always fairly competitive (ie in the top 20% or so at least). All in all she had a good time pretty much but did not have the desire to try to be the best mostly because she had other things that she preferred to do with her life. Now she studies a lot and that combined with friends doesn't allow the time for a life devoted to a sport it seems. I can't complain.

[Charlie]

My kids may prove me wrong, Paul. I mean my oldest is 4 and loves to play, loves to be outside, but all he really thinks about is Thomas, Bob, Lunar Jim, impersonating various animals.

Sigh. I wanna go home now and play with the little guy.

[Paburo]

So, Charlie, what are your thoughts on introducing your kids to kendo?

Even though I don't have kids of my own yet, I've thought about this issue quite a bit, especially as one of the instructors in our dojo and having seen kids come and go over the years. If I have kids, I'm sure I will be tempted to nudge them into kendo, but I've promised myself that I will wait until they tell me that they want to do kendo. And if that never happens, then oh well ... there go my plans for an in-house five-member team. :smiley: Anyway, the point being that if they get into kendo of their own volition, then they will be more likely to stay with it. Then again, kids have a way of foiling even the best laid plans.
since this has turned somewhat into a 'how to introduce our children to kendo and sports' thread i'll share a true story told by my sempai last night about this matter... (as a side note: no, i don't have children yet. i'm too damn young for that! but perhaps in the future if i do have some i would love them to try kendo, yes :D)

we had a girl in our dojo some 4-5 years ago, nidan i think, but she got pregnant and quit. now, some months ago she wanted his 5 year old boy to gain some interest in kendo and make him try it and stuff, but she had this bad idea of introducing/showing him kendo for the first time on the spanish national taikai. looks like the boy got traumatised just walking into some field full of huge grown-ups screaming like crazy lunatics and trying to 'kill' each other.

seems like now whenever someone mentions kendo to him, he says that's some scary stuff and he doesn't even want to try or think about it.

so proud fathers/mothers out there, take note of this. it might come handy... introduce your kids into kendo little by little, for the first time preferably in a very relaxed kids class without angry kendoists nearby! and later when they're ready take them to the battlefield! :D

[slidercrank]

Seems a lot of fathers here have tried to introduce their kids to kendo. Some kids liked it and some didn't.

Do you think the "camaraderie factor" has anything to do with a kid's interest in kendo or not? If the dojo had other kids of the similar age doing kendo and they all got along, then your kid was more apt to stay in it longer to become actually interested in it on his/her own?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Absolutely, and in fact since introducing our kids-only class we've had a lot more success with kids in general. Getting them into bogu is another thing though...

[Charlie]

Getting them into bogu is another thing though...

Why's that? They lose interest?

[Neil Gendzwill]

No, I mean it's just hard to keep kids around long enough to get them into bogu. We only have 1 hour per week so for most kids that's not enough time to get them into bogu within one season. Then they move on to the next thing. Once in bogu, I'm still in a pickle because now I have to manage a couple of kids in bogu which is another category of student.

[Charlie]

Perhaps kendo in North America is not such a kid-friendly thing. In Japan and Korea you can include it as part of the PE curriculum but here it seems you have to be old enough to stay focused, be patient, look after your gear, etc. So maybe over here kendo is really more appropriate to junior-high age kids and up?

Judo, on the other hand, requires less investment and more payoff. Way more kid-friendly. Maybe that will be my plan, start the kids in judo and let them "graduate" to kendo if they want to. I hope, too, they'll join me on the heavy bag and for running and baseball and the like.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Judo is my recommendation for any kid, especially if they are under 10.

[ben]

Judo is my recommendation for any kid, especially if they are under 10.
And then make sure they stop once they hit puberty or they might acquire some lifelong injuries! Aikido is also good for the little ones rolling around.

Neil, you might want to re-set your metric on how long is an appropriate time for kids to train before putting them in bogu. My thinking is, if they're only going to do it for less than 12 months anyway, make sure they get a taste of the whole thing before they quit. It might just be the incentive for them to keep going also. Kids also have a hard time understanding the reasoning for why they don't get to do the cool stuff, like jigeiko and shiai. Adult reasoning is too abstract folr them. And besides, those of us who started young were all guilty of starting for the "wrong" reasons.

I think kids' natural urges to get in and do it all should be indulged (within limits of course), as it often represents the best part of the child: abundant natural curiosity and an amazing ability to absorb new info.

b

[enkorat]

Hey Charlie,

I know that because of our respective dojo environments we are used to dealing with issues pertaining to young adult and adult beginners, and few of us have experience with teaching small children. However, I know that Detroit teaches many children and we both know instructors from there that might have more direct experience with teaching small children, perhaps you might want to make some discrete inquiries?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Neil, you might want to re-set your metric on how long is an appropriate time for kids to train before putting them in bogu.I considered that, but then I've had some kids that I put in early quit on me. I'm not really sure what to do about it. One alternative is to put them all into bogu after a set time, no matter the skill. Say, anyone who comes back for the second term. One practical problem is that I don't think I have enough sets to do that.

[Paburo]

And then make sure they stop once they hit puberty or they might acquire some lifelong injuries! Aikido is also good for the little ones rolling around.

Neil, you might want to re-set your metric on how long is an appropriate time for kids to train before putting them in bogu. My thinking is, if they're only going to do it for less than 12 months anyway, make sure they get a taste of the whole thing before they quit. It might just be the incentive for them to keep going also. Kids also have a hard time understanding the reasoning for why they don't get to do the cool stuff, like jigeiko and shiai. Adult reasoning is too abstract folr them. And besides, those of us who started young were all guilty of starting for the "wrong" reasons.

I think kids' natural urges to get in and do it all should be indulged (within limits of course), as it often represents the best part of the child: abundant natural curiosity and an amazing ability to absorb new info.

b

neil and ben, don't know if this helps or anything, but in our dojo sometimes the kids do kendo competition with 'chambara' foam swords. the same rules as kendo shiai. this way kids have fun, get into a 'here is where we stop excersising alone and actually get to fight and hit another person' type of mentality, and since its foam they dont necessarily need to wear full bogu or bogu at all (if you're short on them).

i think this way the little kids get a taste of what kendo jigeiko/shiai will be in the future in a safe enviroment while they still have a lot of fun.

also, in our kendo demos in primary schools and conventions we usually show kendo stuff between us grown ups, and then in the end we let the kids try kendo 'combat'. we give them our shinai (or a 37 shinai) and we use the chanbara to fight them. this way they can safely hit us with the bamboo since we have the bogu on, and we can hit them safely with the foam. kids have a lot of fun!

if not all of your kids have access to bogu this might be a good way to let them try and feel what a real 'bout' is like and hitting ppl with the shinai every once in a while :D

cheers.

[Charlie]

Hey Charlie,

I know that because of our respective dojo environments we are used to dealing with issues pertaining to young adult and adult beginners, and few of us have experience with teaching small children. However, I know that Detroit teaches many children and we both know instructors from there that might have more direct experience with teaching small children, perhaps you might want to make some discrete inquiries?

Valuable feedback, my friend, thank you! It's got to be sooo much better doing martial arts with other kids than doing martial arts.... with your dad (although we have more than one club member that has flourished this way). So we'll see what fits.

Basically, at some point I am going to offer my children a choice: the bauble, or the sword.... :D

[sainueng]

I don't have kids yet, but the thought has entered my mind.

I once asked the father of the Matsuyama family (currently out in Cleveland) how he got all 3 of his daughters into kendo. That's right, three girls. His response was "Make sure all of their friends are doing kendo." :)

[ben]

I considered that, but then I've had some kids that I put in early quit on me. I'm not really sure what to do about it. One alternative is to put them all into bogu after a set time, no matter the skill. Say, anyone who comes back for the second term. One practical problem is that I don't think I have enough sets to do that.

Well if they quit, at least it was from knowing what kendo had in store, and they can say they had a taste of wearing the armour. You can't prevent them from quitting.

Of course your bogu assets will dictate what you can do.

I like Paburo's idea. The only thing I would worry about is it might give the kids a false sense of what kendo is about. Good for the kids at demos who'll never take up the art, bad for regular students. I can already hear them asking me, "Sensei when are we going to use the foam swords again? They were cool!" Um, never kid. They were just a training tool. "But aren't shinais training tools?" D'oh!

b

[Neil Gendzwill]

No, I don't like the foam swords thing. That will get out of hand in a hurry.

[Rob W.]

Basically, at some point I am going to offer my children a choice: the bauble, or the sword.... :D

CharlieDojo: where you keep practicing or follow your mother into death.

[Charlie]

You should see my deadly baby stroller, Rob!

[WmsMom]

I am not real certain where this thread is meandering at the moment, but in the "for what it's worth category"...
our sons started Kendo on a whim when 3 of their friends (all one family) went to visit a dojo for the first time. After several months our eldest son was the first in bogu. This lad subsequently quit. no announcement, no discussion, just refused to go. Sad because I repeatedly (even 2 years later) hear how he "had the best swing". Slowly but surely the other family dropped, one by one. Of the 5 that started almost 3 years ago, our youngest (now 12, almost 13) is still going and LOVING Kendo. This kid sells home made cookies to pay for his Kendo, tournaments etc. because money has become inordinately tight during this time. He is highly motivated to attend extra practices and travel at un-godly hours of the morning to reach a special practice with a particular sensei. I have been the primary driver (meaning drive the vehicle, not push the kid) in all this and I have learned more than I care to about Kendo, (which lead Tango and Dach-sensei to call me a Kendo-mom) but I still can not tell you why one kid lasts and another leaves. I can tell you for our son it has nothing to do with same age peers. the only kid in the dojo close to his age is uber competative and aloof. Takes every opportunity to "slam" our son verbally. Wm just lets his comments roll of his back. He has become very close to the 2 seniors (Tango and Yasuda-san). We are grateful he continues and support him as much as we can afford. He currently practices 2 times a week for 2 hours each evening, is begging to go to Atlanta for regionals (beyond us $$) but oddly enough he is not overly competative. He seems to do his very best and compete against himself. This is something that can not be taught, but is a personality trait.

[Charlie]

Very valuable post, Mom. Thank you.

[GavinP]

This lad subsequently quit. no announcement, no discussion, just refused to go. Sad because I repeatedly (even 2 years later) hear how he "had the best swing".

I've seen this happen quite a lot with younger people who are fairly gifted at sports, they coast along and get quite good at what they are doing quite fast and then they plateau. It seems they have to put in a lot more work for a lot less gain than the person who was just steadily gaining from the start. They may be better than the person they started with but that other person is still making noticable gains while they aren't. For whatever reason a lot of them quit soon after and you've just lost another promising student.

[Charles Lockhar]

I started my oldest boy at the end of last year, when he was 5. He'd been bugging me to let him start for about a year at that point. I would have been happier to wait until he was 6 or 7, a little stronger, but I figure you better hook them up while they're asking.

At that point he'd been watching me do jodo for years, and then kendo too, so he may very well just have figured that everybody does kendo.

It helps that my club is very kid oriented. A big selling point was probably when they had "goody bags" at our in-house tournament last year. Also, we do a few picnics at the beach, a couple of parties, and are having a camping trip in October.

My 3 year old is definitely interested in starting asap, but since he can't swing a shinai yet... ;o) And my 2 year old runs around the house every day screaming out "kote-men-dooooooo."

Shin, the 6 year old, has picked most of it pretty well. I started him in archery when he was 3, so he's used to the idea of how to handle and treat equipment, and how to take practice seriously enough so that nobody gets hurt.

I had to set some parenting rules though:
#1: practice is not optional. You go to every class whether you feel like it or not, unless your sick. This goes for me too.
#2: practice is not tied to punishment in ANY way. My wife and I had a pretty big argument about this one. She did the "if you don't do X you're not going to kendo..." stuff a couple of times, and we had to have "the talk."
#3: when you're on the floor, the sensei is in charge of your time. If the boy is screwing off, it's up to the sensei to straighten it out, same as for all the other kids (we have four kids who are around 5 or 6 years old).

So far they've worked ok. All the smaller kids have a tendency to start screwing off after a little while, kind of like attention entropy or something. I've seen it in some clubs in Japan as well, so I don't sweat it.

The grandparents bought him bogu back in May, and the sensei slowly introduced it to him (and the other kids at the same time) one piece at a time. A couple weeks ago they all started wearing men, so now they're full on battle ready ;o)

Sorry, probably not worth the paper it's printed on, I just like to participate.

-Charles

[Newbie]

neil and ben, don't know if this helps or anything, but in our dojo sometimes the kids do kendo competition with 'chambara' foam swords. the same rules as kendo shiai. this way kids have fun, get into a 'here is where we stop excersising alone and actually get to fight and hit another person' type of mentality, and since its foam they dont necessarily need to wear full bogu or bogu at all (if you're short on them).

I was actually gonna say the same thing, Neil. There's a dojo in WA I think that uses this but no rules, I think they just have, say ten, twenty minutes or something to beat the crap out of each other after training. Their retention went from keeping a few to only losing a few.

On the subject of introducing kids to kendo, my sempai's daughter's about to start and she's five. Whenever he's giving me training in the backyard before she's gone to bed, she always wants to join in (training to be a ninja, apparently). She loves ninja, pirates, samurai jack, etc. She has her own baby-sized shinai. After a few.. accidents she's not allowed near the kodachi anymore. But very slowly after the last year or so, if she's out there with us, he gently corrects her grip, shows her different kamae, things like that but never pushes it too much or inundates her with too much information. Now rather than being "made to go to kendo" it's a big treat she's looking forward to.

[Jiyoui]

Winning is fun though.

I doubt anyone can complain about that one.

but I can have just as much fun not winning.

*shurg*

the nonchalant college student attitude =D