NANAME Zashi bogu

[ad777]

Hey guys,

Anyone know about this bogu -NANAME Zashi bogu.
Could not find nothing on it.
Thanks

[Neil Gendzwill]

That term refers to a style of stitching in hand-stitched bogu, not a particular make or model.

[JSchmidt]

That term refers to a style of stitching in hand-stitched bogu, not a particular make or model.

Not quite: It's the diagonal stitching that some bogu's have to make the men-dare bend more easily/nicer. I have both hand and machined stitched bogu with naname-zashi.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Thanks for the correction.

[ad777]

Thanks guys

[dwez]

I think this style of stitching looks really cool, but is it only found on more expensive bogu? Not all sellers do it or mention it as a feature so it's often hard to find a decent priced version. I need to store the information for future reference so if anyone knows of a good vendor post a link.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The F23 bogu on sale for $750 or so at bogubag is naname-zashi. It's the one I usually recommend to our beginners who have a little extra money to spend, but it's not what I think of as expensive.

[a.hong]

This set of bogu has naname zashi:
http://www.e-bogu.com/Super_Keiryo_Top_Quality_Machine_Stitched_Bogu_p/woo-ken-bog-tq4lwset--.htm

At $445, I'd hardly think that it is considered expensive.

[R Stroud]

Of course I am biased so don't read this if you want an unbiased opinion. But I will write it as a kenshi not a bogu shop owner, which is mostly right as the wife runs the business...

Regarding bogu the price is unfortunately the focus for most people buying bogu these days. In fact many people simply surf the net, find a good deal and purchase something without any input from their sensei or worse yet not enough understanding of what makes a bogu good or bad.

In my 30 years of experience you get what you pay for with bogu. If the price of one maker's 4mm set is less than someone else's 4mm set you will see differences. Perhaps lower quality materials for the construction, or less padding inside the stitching, or less fit options. We all know that, no body rides for free, and you don't get something for nuthing...

Finding a good quality bogu requires research and effort. You need to actually touch and feel each product to understand the differences, you need your sensei and senpai to show you what is needed and what should be avoided.

Getting a set that will last 20 years with minor problems is not that hard if you know what to look for in quality bogu. My surprise with the recent trend both inside and outside of Japan to look for low cost bogu instead of spending a bit more to get something of higher quality is that ultimately your body pays the price. The lower cost sets will protect less or break down sooner, and allow hard hits to find your soft sensitive body parts inside.

Nothing wrong with getting more substantial equipment after all you are going to be doing kendo for the rest of your life, or maybe that is another thread...

[JSchmidt]

My machine made men is the A-1 men from Kanagawa Hakkado. It's very nice, very light, reasonably cheap, but in an environment where I'm motodachi a lot, it got beaten up.
My hand stitched men, was sourced through private contacts to the "100 Bogu Craftsman Association" in Japan. Completely traditionally made, with no frills whatsoever. It was about £500 ($1000) for the men, including discounts. I don't expect to buy another one for a very long time and I can only echo what Stroud-sensei says.

I went to visit the Sasaki-brothers who made the tsuki-dare. They (2 brothers), only do tsuki-dares and do-mune and have been doing so for 40 years. They in turn learned from their father, who was an apprentice of a master bogu-maker. Just watching them work was amazing. They proceeded to explain the differences between handmade armour made the traditional way and stuff made in China/Korea. (It's a little tricky to explain without having their stuff to compare with).
They also pulled out a complete do, which was to be used by 'someone' at the Kyoto-taikai, which had the small price-tag of $4.500!

For me, it makes a big difference that I know that the armour I'm wearing was made by "someone" and not just an anonymous company. Further that this person was highly trained and skilled in his craft also makes it easier to appreciate the armor and make sure that you take care of it and present it in the neatest way possible.

I'm getting slightly side-tracked here, but I think it's easy to get caught up in 'such and such' a stitching, sharkskin this, embroidery that, rather than getting something that is truly well made for its purpose.

[DCPan]

I think this style of stitching looks really cool, but is it only found on more expensive bogu?

I would say, usually, it is found more often on what would have been otherwise "stiffer" bogu.

For example, eventhough the Mine I wear offers naname-sashi, I was actually recommended not to get it as the futon is already so bendy that adding naname-sashi would be purely cosmetic, without addtional that much more function for the cost.

Conversely, even with naname-sashi, my 1.0bu men's men-flaps are fairly stiff.

So, it if were me, I wouldn't recommend naname-sashi unless you are getting bogu that is 4mm stitch or tighter.

The weird thing is, you can even see naname-sashi on some tare, to have that bend forward effect that you would normally get just by storing the tare in the classic boston bag.

YMMV

[Big One]

Who said good bogu is expensive?
http://cgi.ebay.com/hirotsugu-Kendo-bogu-size-XL-NEW-3mm_W0QQitemZ270154679602QQihZ017QQcategoryZ36282Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


As note, Hirotsugu is the most expensive on Bogubag.

[R Stroud]

Who said good bogu is expensive?
http://cgi.ebay.com/hirotsugu-Kendo-bogu-size-XL-NEW-3mm_W0QQitemZ270154679602QQihZ017QQcategoryZ36282Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


As note, Hirotsugu is the most expensive on Bogubag.

Good bogu is expensive. This set is not the top of the line set from Koei. Simple to spot, aluminum men gane, fiber/plastic doh... This is billed as 3mm, which is machine made not hand made. The Hirotsugu set would be hand made and take months to get as it would be tailored to your exact size

Somebody is pulling a fast one. The bogu described is not Hirotsugu. The Hirotsugu bogu from Koei (sold by Bogubag) is nothing like the description given on the ebay add, however the picture is of a Koei Hirotsugu Bogu. Most likely they took it from this page http://www.bogubag.com/Bogu/Hand_Made/bogu_hand_made.html http://www.bogubag.com/Bogu/Hand_Made/hirotsugu_L.jpg

Sounds like someone it trying to unload some low cost bogu by claiming it came from Bogubag/Koei. The listing is bogus and I would suspect that if someone ordered it they would get something that doesn't even match the descriptioni not to mention an incorrect fit.

[R Stroud]

If it was really a Hirotsugu $6000 USD handmade bogu set, the $400 USD bid looks like a great deal.

[ben]

I posted a question to the seller. He's playing fast-and-loose with the truth IMHO.

b

[dwez]

Of course I am biased so don't read this if you want an unbiased opinion. But I will write it as a kenshi not a bogu shop owner, which is mostly right as the wife runs the business...

Regarding bogu the price is unfortunately the focus for most people buying bogu these days. In fact many people simply surf the net, find a good deal and purchase something without any input from their sensei or worse yet not enough understanding of what makes a bogu good or bad.

In my 30 years of experience you get what you pay for with bogu.

Most of the advice I see on this forum would agree with you. Buy what you can possibly afford if not more to ensure longevity and quality. That certainly should be the case but I still believe in support for those on a budget. So long as people are aware they are buying budget and expect no more than that. Of course if your club has armour to spare then it's always useful but if you have to get something and you are strapped then there should support for that.

My armour wasn't as cheap as you can buy nowadays but it was about $300 12 years ago. Without having the luxury of feeling it there looks to be much better quality bogu at a much lower price available. There are absolutely no frills on my bogu, it probably doesn't fit properly but it affords me enough protection to fence on a weekly basis over it's 3-4 year life. If I was practicing more it may well fell apart I don't know. I get to do kendo in bogu that's the most imprtant thing to me.

Only the kote are a bit weak so I got a wrist protector. They are in fact more padded on the fist than e-bogus 4.5mm version. They may not have real leather covering them but they function.

I wouldn't say you are biased you have great experience of what truly good armour is and how it improves and enhances your kendo. Everyone should take note of those with experience, we wouldn't be doing kendo otherwise. however you certainly would never contemplate using now what I have to use, but then I have no experience of any other bogu so at this moment I have nothing to compare it to.

One day I will be in a position to upgrade and hopefully I will be able to take the advice given and get a quality bogu. My experience is therefore limited but in the mean time I'll make do and be grateful.

[Big One]

Just to clarify,

When I posted the ebay link, It was not a serious one but intended for a laugh.

[mugen no junin]

For example, eventhough the Mine I wear offers naname-sashi, I was actually recommended not to get it as the futon is already so bendy that adding naname-sashi would be purely cosmetic, without addtional that much more function for the cost.

So, it if were me, I wouldn't recommend naname-sashi unless you are getting bogu that is 4mm stitch or tighter.

YMMV

Really? I ordered mine with naname-sashi...do you think it will be the same as a regular stitched men (a parte of the price of course?

[DCPan]

Really? I ordered mine with naname-sashi...do you think it will be the same as a regular stitched men (a parte of the price of course?

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

The naname-sashi will still do what it is designed to do. It's just that for me personally, from an ROI perspective, I'd spent that money on something else.

The analogy would be, you could get young-deerskin palm in your kote vs regular deerskin....young deerskin is better, but is it worth the mark-up to you?

YMMV.

[mugen no junin]

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

The naname-sashi will still do what it is designed to do. It's just that for me personally, from an ROI perspective, I'd spent that money on something else.

The analogy would be, you could get young-deerskin palm in your kote vs regular deerskin....young deerskin is better, but is it worth the mark-up to you?

YMMV.

Excuse my poor english...after reading your post I was thinking if I had made a mistake choosing the naname-sashi, and I wanted to know if, in your opinion, it would be only a waste of money or a waste of money AND a loss of functionality.

After all the money I spent for, I want it "perfect" and so I was a little scared about it.

Now I've understood that probably I could have saved the money without loosing nothing.

Thank you very much, cheers :D