Can previous MA experience be detrimental for new students?

[NoNameKleenex]

Hello all,

After several years of wanting to give Kendo a go, I've finally had the opportunity to sign up for lessons. I've not had a class yet, but am slated to start with this Sunday.

I have a background in Shotokan and Goju-Ryu although I haven't set foot in a dojo for several more years due to work, relocations, and other obligations. I've recently tried to get back into Shotokan but it just didn't hold the fascination for me as it once did.

Just wanted to introduce myself and ask a question that may have been asked before (apologies if this is the case - not great at forum searching), but was wondering for those of you who got into Kendo after being exposed to another legitimate MA, what were the advantages/disadvantages of your previous experience?

Believe me, I have as much disdain for the "self-trained grandmaster 15 y.o. ninja/samurai/karate etc." farts as the majority of KW posts I've seen for the past few weeks.

Just an honest question from an inquiring mind. Sounds like the National Enquirer, doesn't it? :wink:

[JCM]

Welcome!

We have new groups of people coming in avery couple of months. You usually find that people with previous MA experience are better tuned in and they seem to be a lot quicker to figure things out. Some people complain about old habits creeping up (different footwork, etc..) but other than that they tend to do fairly well.

Not to mention the fact that they have a fair idea when it comes to going with the flow of the class, I am talking about reigi as well as general instructions (rotate, etc...)

Hope you enjoy it

[bobdonny]

Shotokan should be of particular benefit, in my own experience anyway

[Neil Gendzwill]

Previous experience is a mixed bag. If you can keep an open mind to the kendo stances and fighting attitudes, then you can use your experience to advantage. Some people have habits that are hard to break and their attitudes don't help. Sounds like your attitude is good though.

On the positive side, people with other experience are used to working hard, understand that boring repetition is part of getting good, and know how to learn by watching and doing.

[NoNameKleenex]

Thanks very much for the quick responses! Much appreciated :)

[Bokushingu]

One more thing I would like to add... You will need to understand Kendo is a life thing: In otherwards you shouldn't have any time or level goals in kendo. When I decided to start, my wife warned me don't start thiniking you will do it fro 5 to 10 years then retire from it, because most people will train their entire life & use it to strengthen and discipline their daily life. I hope that I'm explaining that correctly. :)

[Bruce Mitchell]

What I have seen most frequently is that people's first instructor tends to leave an indelible stamp on that person. This seems to affect how they view martial arts more than how the act physically. Having recently started my 6 year old daughter in martial arts, the advice I give other parents is that it is better to never start than to start with a mediocre teacher. So if you are coming from a decent, traditional, dojo, you should have no problems changing arts, but if you come from a McDojo, better to just quit martial arts altogether and take up a sport.

[Ignatz]

People with training in other martial arts sometimes get very frustrated because the get tuned up by everyone. They start thinking "Well if I use this stance or whatever from my karate/TKD etc training it will be better".
99.99% of the time it isn't.

That being said, I think Neil hit it on the head.

[tango]

FWIW, I agree with Neil -- it's a mixed bag.

one of the things that I've notice over the years with some of our new folks with MA backgrounds is that sometimes they have trouble understanding the concept of just going straight towards/through the opponent. Sometimes, this inclination hides itself until they get into bogu, and they have a tendency to want to circle the opponent.. or they hit and want to go around rather than through..

This is -- after 20 seconds of thought -- the thing that sticks out in my mind with SOME folks with prior MA history..

[Anonymous]

The only benefits I noticed starting kendo after doing wado-ryu for a few years was that by the time I started I was in fairly good shape, and I was pretty used to getting pounded so I didn't get completely flattened by the time I got in bogu. The problems I had were things like getting used to things like footwork etc. but I just followed my sensei's instructions, and just "forgot" about what I learned before while I was on the floor and never really had any problems crossing over.

[NoNameKleenex]

One more thing I would like to add... You will need to understand Kendo is a life thing: In otherwards you shouldn't have any time or level goals in kendo. When I decided to start, my wife warned me don't start thiniking you will do it fro 5 to 10 years then retire from it, because most people will train their entire life & use it to strengthen and discipline their daily life. I hope that I'm explaining that correctly. :)

I believe I understand where you're coming from. I've been looking for an art in which people just don't look at your technique, but your character as well. My wife teases (out of love, she tells me :p ) me about how introspective I get sometimes.


What I have seen most frequently is that people's first instructor tends to leave an indelible stamp on that person. This seems to affect how they view martial arts more than how the act physically. Having recently started my 6 year old daughter in martial arts, the advice I give other parents is that it is better to never start than to start with a mediocre teacher. So if you are coming from a decent, traditional, dojo, you should have no problems changing arts, but if you come from a McDojo, better to just quit martial arts altogether and take up a sport.

I agree. I've had and seen some mediocre instructors - fortunately, I knew I was looking for something "better". I've also had some great instructors, people whom I could trust would not steer their students in the wrong direction. No McDojo's for me - some places just didn't feel "right", and always made sure the dojos I did train at were affiliated with a recognized governing body. Thanks for your input.


People with training in other martial arts sometimes get very frustrated because the get tuned up by everyone. They start thinking "Well if I use this stance or whatever from my karate/TKD etc training it will be better".
99.99% of the time it isn't.

That being said, I think Neil hit it on the head.

I can assure you I am going in with an empty mind - not that there's much to empty lol. I've done a lot of research on Kendo to see if it was something I'd like to try, but I'll be the first one to admit that I know *nothing* about it and wouldn't even think of trying to cross-pollinate two completely different styles. Thank you for the input.

[Neil Gendzwill]

one of the things that I've notice over the years with some of our new folks with MA backgrounds is that sometimes they have trouble understanding the concept of just going straight towards/through the opponent. Sometimes, this inclination hides itself until they get into bogu, and they have a tendency to want to circle the opponent.. or they hit and want to go around rather than through.I didn't want to get too much into specifics but yeah, different arts tend to produce different habits to be broken. Judo guys are too low and flat-footed, counter-punchers don't want to attack, traditional karate-ka can't shake that back stance, etc etc. Like I said, if they have an open mind they can learn the kendo techniques and then use their experience to advantage.

[Paikea]

People with training in other martial arts sometimes get very frustrated because the get tuned up by everyone...Every once in a while, a sensei will ask "what did you do before kendo?". Two asked "how long has it been since you did Judo?" (A: almost thirty years...).

[NoNameKleenex]

Every once in a while, a sensei will ask "what did you do before kendo?". Two asked "how long has it been since you did Judo?" (A: almost thirty years...).

lol on this one. Hopefully I don't end up running around screaming "Osu!!" at the top of my lungs :confused2

Thanks to all for your thoughtful input - I'll be keeping it mind as I get underway.

[Jon Palombi]

Hello all,

Just wanted to ask a question that may have been asked before (apologies if this is the case - not great at forum searching), but was wondering for those of you who got into Kendo after being exposed to another legitimate MA, what were the advantages/disadvantages of your previous experience?

Just an honest question from an inquiring mind. Sounds like the National Enquirer, doesn't it? :wink:

While I have yet to begin formal kendo classes, I have had some experience in this area. I studied tae kwon do for 5 years, as a young man. About a year or so after I earned my first degree black belt, my Master began instructing some of us in gumdo techniques. While I was never tested or ranked in gumdo, I had become fascinated with the way of the sword. Years later, I took up Olympic-style sport fencing. Everything I thought I knew about swordsmanship was WRONG (in regards to European fencing). The stances were opposite, the approach was different, EVERYTHING seemed foreign and awkward. Like Neil said, I had developed habits that kept surfacing. Still, regardless of the challenges, I found that the experiences I had gone through gave me certain advantages. In terms of discipline, slow-and-steady absorption of techniques and a sense for timing and distance, my prior study lent some insight to me. Before too long, the mechanics of the system became second-nature. Several years later, once again, I found myself faced with the same mixed-bag, when I took up the practice of Chinese swordsmanship. Once more, the stances were unfamiliar and at first, awkward. After some time, I found myself adapting just fine to the new system. When I am fortunate enough to find a kendo dojo in my area, I am sure to be faced with a new set of challenges and adjustments. I think you are much more likely to easily find your way. After all, you have practiced Japanese martial arts before and the stances and foot-work will be similar. Good luck with your new pursuit!

Sincerely, Jon Palombi

[Neil Gendzwill]

After all, you have practiced Japanese martial arts before and the stances and foot-work will be similar.Surprisingly not.

[yotsuba]

Would someone murder me if I said my 5 years in the-almost-XMA-almost-chambara-but-not sport of Wushu gave me a pretty nice learning advantage over the other beginners in Iaido?

If yes, then please take solace in the fact that my kendo sensei mopped the floor with me in my first day in bogu practice. And then handed me to the next sempai. And the next sempai and the next sempai and the next sempai and the next--

And that Wushu did not save me from the fury of kyudo senseis who were apalled at how short my attention span was. (Hey, we were meditating for a long time mmk?? :silly: )

In summary, I think it depends on a lot of factors. How similar the arts are, what type of training you recieved, what type of learning atmosphere...

[H.Sandsleth]

Regarding going from shotokan to kendo I'd like to quote what Elmar Schmeisser, a 7th dan and kyoshi in Shotokan (ISOK), stated on another forum: "The linkage (between kendo and shotokan) is deeper and more extensive than perhaps you realize, - the psychology of shotokan is kendo, the tactics in sparring are from kendo, the footwork is from kendo, the training emphasis on ippatsu and kiai, the sanbon/ippon/jiu kumite, the sparring drills (kiri-kaeshi, anyone?), all from kendo. The kata may link to aiki/jujutsu/judo, but the normal kihon and kumite of JKA shotokan are (imho) kendo, through and through."

[NoNameKleenex]

Surprisingly not.

I think a new "target" would accidentally be introduced if somebody suddenly dropped into horse stance during a match :eek:

Even between Shotokan and Goju-Ryu I saw several widely different stances and applications, and they're both unarmed. I can only imagine how different (to me) the footwork will be in Kendo.

[NoNameKleenex]

Regarding going from shotokan to kendo I'd like to quote what Elmar Schmeisser, a 7th dan and kyoshi in Shotokan (ISOK), stated on another forum: "The linkage (between kendo and shotokan) is deeper and more extensive than perhaps you realize, - the psychology of shotokan is kendo, the tactics in sparring are from kendo, the footwork is from kendo, the training emphasis on ippatsu and kiai, the sanbon/ippon/jiu kumite, the sparring drills (kiri-kaeshi, anyone?), all from kendo. The kata may link to aiki/jujutsu/judo, but the normal kihon and kumite of JKA shotokan are (imho) kendo, through and through."

Very interesting . . . I've sat in on a couple of Kendo classes while I was trying to decide if it was something I wanted to try, and noticed that the students would try to drive through their partner after certain strikes. During my time in Shotokan it was very much the same approach, except with very long stances and linear punches and kicks. There was some, but not much, angle work. Goju-Ryu, on the other hand, had tons of angle work. Just my observations :)

[Owen]

after doing kung fu, the only problem i have encountered so far is speed. i am used to going very fast, and now its hard to slow down to learn strikes properly. maybe my need for speed will help me later, but as of now it is a burden.

[Shinsengumi77]

it is better to never start than to start with a mediocre teacher. So if you are coming from a decent, traditional, dojo, you should have no problems changing arts, but if you come from a McDojo, better to just quit martial arts altogether and take up a sport.

Amen to that.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well it's certainly true that Shotokan is karate put through a kendo filter. When Funakoshi first brought it to Japan, they practiced in kendo dojo and picked up a lot from that. The point scoring system and flags and such was from kendo, if I have it correctly. Certainly when I watch Shotokan sparring I don't have much trouble following the reasoning behind the judging. It's definitely a lot more linear than some of the Okinawan karate. The local organisation here is ITKF which is under Nishiyama-sensei, who holds godan in kendo and has an appreciation for it.

Having said all that, I still think you need to just open your mind to the kendo way of doing things. It's different from karate.

[Jon Palombi]

Having said all that, I still think you need to just open your mind to the kendo way of doing things. It's different from karate.

Exactly! Like the man saith, each way has it's principles. True enough, an open-minded student is far more likely to absorb the essence of the martial-practice. Anyone who has spent much time trail-running/ trail-biking, has come to the awareness that constant and unceasing adjustments in weight-distribution, angle and momentum, dictate the quality of the run/ ride. In the same light, an open-minded student can take the inniatitive,and tune themselves to the task. Given, fighting with a sword is another kettle of fish... Thank your lucky stars that you are able to "open yourself" to a new way. The quick-fix or slow-fix, you find on your doorstep, will most likely be your own hesitation, and-or, resistance. Re-invention is perhaps the most sublime of human qualities. Do it! :ko:

[NoNameKleenex]

Having said all that, I still think you need to just open your mind to the kendo way of doing things. It's different from karate.

Don't worry - I'm not going to go in and think to myself "this isn't how I would do this or that", "this isn't how my old dojo would do things", or anything along those lines. I wouldn't learn anything that way.

I'm going in with an empty and open mind, and in my limited experience I've found that starting/learning anything new (MA or otherwise) with preconceptions only slows things down and frustrates people.

I realize that kendo is vastly different from karate, and I hope that I didn't sound as if I was trying to compare the two or anything like that. I guess I was just seeking information on things to look out for or be mindful of.

At any rate, I'm really looking forward to getting into training and taking those baby steps into kendo. Thanks to all for the intelligent discussions so far :)

[Wesley Myers]

I hope your first class went well and you enjoyed Kendo.

I'm going to add my penny's worth here. I started Kendo this year and it has not been easy - to say the least. I had 22 years of WTF TKD training prior to starting Kendo. This has been very hard as I've had to try to "unlearn" what I've learned prior and THEN learn the Kendo.

Kendo, thankfully, is very precise and very exact. Actually, it is this precision with regard to stepping that will improve my TKD.

However, it has been very frustrating. My stepping is out of synch with my hits (we always trained to step first in TKD and then from a strong base to strike; so to strike and finish the step at the same time seems very wrong to me and it's taken a lot to get over it). That said, there is a movement in the WTF 2nd Dan form 'Keumgang' that includes stomp at the same time as a double side face block. When learning this I asked why the stomp and the answer was 'for strength' - so it's the same principle as 'fumikomi'.

Other than that similarity - and that stomp really isn't repeated in anything else we do.

I have a tendency to want to strike the opponent and then immediately turn to face them instead of following through (in WTF TKD competition you do not stop the round after you score a hit - it's like boxing with three 3 min. rounds). Or to strike and then side step immediately and strike again.

Haia-suburi was probably the most difficult – until that is I failed that part on my bogu exam miserably and then was forced to examine the technique. Since I was having so much trouble with stepping and striking at the same time I thought I’d wait on haia-suburi and work on it later. It’s still not easy to do – that’s a technique that can obviously be improved by anyone and everyone over time (just all aspects of Kendo) but I understand it now and when I thought I might have it right I went and asked one of the Sensei’s if he could watch my technique after class and see if I was doing this right and to get feedback.

It has been frustrating - even though I knew when I started it would be very hard. I had always told new students of mine that if they've ever taken anything else (including dancing!) then it would be very hard for them to learn TKD. BUT - they had to know this now as they were starting and not let it overbear them and make them want to quit as they would see others initially surpass them in technique.

Of course knowing something (and even espousing it) doesn't necessarily make it any easier when one has to go through it.

I see others who started at the same time as me progress faster. Yes, it's frustrating. I practice on my own but it's still frustrating and it's very hard to try to overcome what are really little things but are very hard to get over as they are reactions after years of training.

Is it worth it? YES. Unequivocally so! I do wish I had started Kendo earlier (I used to see posters for Kendo around the university campus at the beginning of each term but it conflicted with TKD times.). However, that was not meant to be for whatever reason but it is now.

Anyway, regardless of how hard things may get for you in the future (or for anyone reading this!) just stick with it. The rewards are well worth it.

I have an 'educated eye' and over two decades experience with professionally taught martial arts and from what I've seen in Kendo is fantastic! Just the seminar where other Master Instructor's were present teaching to ensure quality of Kendo was at high levels was incredible to see. In TKD that only happens when you are on the National Teams and only for the pure sport aspect of TKD.

If something is hard for you in Kendo, try to practice it to make it work. Talk to your instructor and ask him/her to help you after/before class with something specific.

Make sure to take the time to ASK before you "think" you know what you are doing and develop some very bad habits or try to "bluff" your way through. That will only set you back.

It’s also been hard to dedicate time with four children (three of whom are 2 months, 18 months and 35 months old) and a wife (who thankfully is giving Kendo a try this year so at least, even if she doesn’t like it, will have a greater understanding of it). My oldest daughter has been training once a week but it’s not her greatest interest – but she is trying – but the class length is hard for her especially when she has homework due the next morning so sometimes we bow out early. I guess that’s a sacrifice I have to make – even though I’d like to stay later. Commuting from the country-side to town doesn’t make it any easier. However, it’s well worth it.

If anyone is really serious about staying with Kendo (or any well-taught martial art) then it shouldn't matter whether or not it takes an extra week, or month or even year to learn something. You are there to improve yourself - not to show off to others. Like they (should) say at the gym - leave your ego at the door. Sure, maybe someone you start with may learn faster than you, but in 10 years can they say they still practice that art?

Do it for yourself and for your spirit and in turn you will be doing it for those around you.

[NoNameKleenex]

I hope your first class went well and you enjoyed Kendo.

I'm going to add my penny's worth here. . . .

Thank you, Wesley, for your thoughtful post! I was actually mistaken about the date of my first class (which happens to be tonight lol). My first session was a mini-bootcamp to gauge the fitness level of us beginners.

Only this morning did I feel somewhat human again and not so wooden (I can sort of take stairs again lol) I didn't realize how poor my cardio is - I must've sounded like a tortured set of bagpipes as I went around the track :confused2

However, it was a good chance to mingle with the senior folks in the dojo before we get down to the nitty gritty, and they seem like a really decent crowd.

I'm still looking forward to tonight as much as I was looking forward to it a while ago (despite still being sore from Sunday). I know that class will be tough and challenging, but I think it'll be worth the sweat. I'm ready to put the time in to learn kendo, and I have a very understanding wife that knows that this is something I've been wanting to do for a few years.

And this is a couple of months late, but congrats on your little ones :)

Thanks again for your input - I enjoyed reading it and will keep it mind.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Bootcamp? Are you in Winterpeg?

[Paikea]

Bootcamp? Are you in Winterpeg?Aw...and I thought Neil was going hard-core.

[NoNameKleenex]

Bootcamp? Are you in Winterpeg?

Yes, I'm in Winterpeg, and the leaves are already turning colours :(

I love winter, but not so much the -40 C or the fact that my bike spends six months in storage lol.

Class last night was good. No blisters, thankfully, but a satisfying burn in my left calf. I guess it's just letting me know I used it lol

[Neil Gendzwill]

Hopefully I'll meet you for the seminar in October if you guys get it organized this year. Is Corie back in town? I think the bootcamp stuff was her idea.

[NoNameKleenex]

Hopefully I'll meet you for the seminar in October if you guys get it organized this year. Is Corie back in town? I think the bootcamp stuff was her idea.

I think she is - I seem to remember somebody pointing her out at the bootcamp session. Not certain, though (and I probably wouldn't recognize her if she were beating me with her shinai . . . I'm horrible with names).

It'd be good to meet. Hopefully the seminar does go ahead, although I think I'll still be fumbling my way through the footwork at that point. Graceful fumbling, though.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well, you'd know her as she'd be the one doing the teaching. Maybe "Namba-sensei" sounds more familiar? The other instructor there is Tom Yamashita.

[Dervish]

Tae Kwon Do was my first martial art, so during my first Kendo class, I was a bit confused regarding the relatively wide stances.

[NoNameKleenex]

Well, you'd know her as she'd be the one doing the teaching. Maybe "Namba-sensei" sounds more familiar? The other instructor there is Tom Yamashita.

I recognize her last name from her zekken (sp?) a couple of weeks ago when I was watching class, but I don't know if she was there last night. Perhaps she was practicing with the folks in bogu - there was a lot going on and I couldn't spend much time watching the others practice.

Mr. Yamashita was teaching last night along with another gentleman (can't remember his name, unfortunately).

[enkorat]

I also had a fairly extensive experience in martial arts before starting kendo, and I agree with Neil, it was a mixed bag.

A lot of the benefit was that compared to when I was a beginner in my first art, I had developed a better understanding of my body and how to control my body, so certain movements, certain ideas were easier to incorporate. I imagine it would be the same if you had come in from an activity with fairly good development of body awareness...

The curriculum in kendo tends to be more standardized, better organized in terms of logical progression, and based off of fundamental movements more than some "tool box" arts that tend to emphasize a diversity of techniques. I did however have to readjust my mindset to "mastering" one element or technique at time, instead of trying to stir multiple pots at the same time.

My biggest difficulty I think was one of attitude. I went from somewhere that was... well... somewhat passive aggressive, very self defense oriented, and very safety conscious, to a very very traditional kendo dojo, where people were crystal clear about what was going to happen, in my eyes brutally aggressive (now I just see it as 'good attitude'), and not at all concerned about going half speed to be 'safe' (why else wear armor?) . Things were... different. It was a difficult transition, and at a certain point I stopped going to kendo because I had not yet changed my attitude about training.

Even after restarting kendo and doing it continuously now for a while, I have only just within the last few months feel like I've finally begun to overcome the passivity and mental hesitiation that was trained into me when I was younger, and to deliver a single waza with reasonable sutemi and conviction.

I don't regret anything, from what I understand of myself I would have never started martial arts or kendo back then because I was a very passive person if the first dojo I was in was like that of my first kendo dojo.

If there is any advice I can give, its that if you're shown something new or different, although its a natural human reaction to reject it out of hand and go back to the familiar, keep an open mind. I've been lucky to have people around me who often say "well give it a shot, maybe its right" I've learned a lot from that...

[Neil Gendzwill]

If the other guy was Japanese, it's probably Taka, forget his last name. I heard he was back in town. Alternately it could be any of several nidan or sandan people that help teach. Anyways, good luck with the Winnipeg crew and hopefully everything comes together for the seminar next month. If not, maybe I'll see you in Saskatoon in March for our seminar. MKC usually rents a couple of big vans and sends a large crew.

[NoNameKleenex]

. . .If there is any advice I can give, its that if you're shown something new or different, although its a natural human reaction to reject it out of hand and go back to the familiar, keep an open mind. I've been lucky to have people around me who often say "well give it a shot, maybe its right" I've learned a lot from that...

Thank you for your thoughts. I always try to keep an open mind, although I'll admit it's harder for some things than others (esp. outside the dojo). I've seen some people miss so much in life because of certain mindsets. I think we all need a nudge once in a while - I certainly have, and I'm sure it'll happen again.


. . . Anyways, good luck with the Winnipeg crew and hopefully everything comes together for the seminar next month. If not, maybe I'll see you in Saskatoon in March for our seminar. MKC usually rents a couple of big vans and sends a large crew.

Thanks, Neil. Sounds good. I've only met a couple of the senior folks, but everyone seems to be very friendly and helpful. I think I'll enjoy training here.

[futabachan]

I trained for about ten years in Tae Kwon Do and Bong Sool, plus a smattering of other (mostly Karate) styles from when I was at various schools or short-lasting jobs. I really loved the little bit of Bong Sool (full contact staff fighting in ersatz bogu cobbled together from Tae Kwon Do and ice hockey equipment) that I was able to do, and the naginata seemed like a compelling art, both because of its nature as a women's art and because it sounded like something that could build on my Bong Sool experience. After all, a naginata is really just a staff with a blade on one end, right?

Well, no. The naginata felt genuinely bizarre for the first few months -- almost the diametric opposite of everything that I had studied up to that point. The biggest adjustment by far was getting out of the push-pull mindset that underpins Karate, TKD, Bong Sool, Okinawan Kobudo, and so forth. And the naginata kamae is neither a back stance nor a horse stance (nor, since I'm in Kendo and Iaido now, is the kamae there a front stance). And instead of settling into a new stance first for foundation, there's ki-ken-tai-ichi. And and and.

But that's the surface -- the real advantage from my previous training is in deeper aspects: strong kiai, finding the inner strength to keep going when exhausted, focus and discipline and attitude toward training, etiquette, kime, metsuke, breathing, kasso teki, and other such aspects. And I know my way around a fight, which also carries over -- distance judgment, shortening my OODA loop or screwing up my opponent's, seizing the initiative, attacking the opponent's spirit and will, and so forth.

So I'd say that prior training -- if you had good prior training, which isn't always the case -- can be a small disadvantage on the surface, and a bigger advantage more fundamentally. YMMV.

[Raindrop]

Oh, the perfect topic for me. I've been doing Shotokan for 2.5 years and I have just recently started a beginners course in Kendo.

There is so much great advice in this topic.

I agree that Shotokan and Kendo seem to have more parallels than one would think. I don't know much about Kendo yet but there are certain things I'm familiar with from Shotokan. For example, the connection between your hip rotation and the angle of your back/left foot. In our Kendo beginners course, the focus so far is on correct footwork, and that both feet have to stay parallel. A lot of people in my course tend to kinda "drag" their left foot on its inner side and rotate it a bit but this prevents you from putting both hips forward. I get that from shotokan and from our "zenkutsu-datchi" where the hips have to be pointing to the front as well. I know... tiny things, but it really helped me :)

My biggest advantages so far are things like etiquette, stamina, kime and coordiantion of my moves. I pick things up quicker because of my shotokan background and so far I have not yet had any troubles with the wrong footwork.

I'm still a beginner in Shotokan as well, only 2nd kyu, and I'm doing both at the same time, so I'm sure there will be times where I'll have to slow down in one to benefit in the other, but this topic gave me good hopes that I'll be able to handle it. :)

[NoNameKleenex]

I actually didn't expect to see any further activity on this thread . . . thanks for your input Raindrop and futabachan.

So far I've been going to class more or less on a regular basis for two months and am starting to feel more comfortable with the footwork and shinai. I've been told a couple of times to stop doing the "karate thing" when we're doing stretching or strength building exercises (and I've been desperately trying to "unlearn" the karate stuff, but it's a challenge even though I haven't practiced karate for some time now).

I've also been told that I don't have a large motion when making a strike, and I think it's due to being conditioned to not telegraph my intentions while free sparring in karate. I understand that the big movement is designed to build proper technique and muscles for speed, but again, I think it's just a mindblock from my karate days to stay small and "hide" my technique in tournament settings.

It's frustrating because I can visualize what I'm supposed to do, and I understand the reasoning, but understanding and actually doing are sometimes very far apart. Apart from that, I love kendo so far. I chalk the frustration up to something that'll feel soooo good to overcome when things finally do start to click.

[Raindrop]

I know what you mean with "the karate thing" lol. The worst was when in my first lesson we bowed to our sparring partners and I said "ooss!" xD I speak a little Japanese so I quickly adapted to "Onegaishimasu" but it was embaressing nonetheless.

I did tell my sensei ahead of time that I have a Shotokan background and he said it wouldn't be a problem. I guess whatever advantages you have over other newbies will be cancelled out by these small struggles to keep those two arts seperate ;)

In the end, the most important part is to do your best, and as you said, keep an open mind. (And videotape your kirikaeshi ;) )

[MartialArtsGirl]

What I have seen most frequently is that people's first instructor tends to leave an indelible stamp on that person. This seems to affect how they view martial arts more than how the act physically. Having recently started my 6 year old daughter in martial arts, the advice I give other parents is that it is better to never start than to start with a mediocre teacher. So if you are coming from a decent, traditional, dojo, you should have no problems changing arts, but if you come from a McDojo, better to just quit martial arts altogether and take up a sport.


Well, my previous MA was not actually a McDojo.... even so, thats only because my previous MA dojo (in Kempo) WAS part of a McDojo but broke off from it a year (or two?) after I started, because the instructors said that the guy (Steven DeMasco) was full of it. (They used to be part of Unisted Studios of Self defense). I did some research and it said that Unisted Studios of Self Defense (along with Steven DeMasco) were all essentially a McDojo franchise.

However, my own teachers who taught me Kempo were amazing; they really cared about their students not only in the dojo, but outside of it too. (I was a student at the time, and there was a rule that if a student wasn't doing well in school because they weren't trying or whatever, then they couldn't test for their next belt) The cost was in the normal range of what a Dojo should be, (and I got to go an unlimted number of times because of that). B/c McDojo's used to be popular in that state/area, many people went to my old Dojo from out of town.

They were not into super duper flashy/showing off stuff and they did not have a massive number of students. (They did have a demo team, which depending on how you look at it could be considered flashy; but the demo team was optional and I don't think that just anyone could be on it. The regular MA stuff was just normal, though.) The place- it was A decent size, but not huge. They often did stuff for people for free- including getting volunteers (other students at the Dojo) to help the younger kids with homework; free movie nights for kids, etc.

I feel like my first experience there really changed my life. It really improved my life a lot.

However, they orginally started as a franchise of a well known McDojo. (Unisted States Studios of Self Defense- which is apparantly the epitomy of McDojos) They were also not traditional at all- very "Americanized".

Since they orginally started out as a McDojo (and after breaking off, they did change some of the things they taught... some quite a bit, others not so much... for example they got rid of some ridiculous moves that had no practical use )...but since thats the case, I have to wonder how much I learned was McDojo and how much not? However, despite my doubts, I do think that they were excellent teachers and what I learned was really good. I used to go at least 6 hours a week, and at one point I got private lessons. I put 150% effort in, and after 4 years I had just gotten my blackbelt. (Which, was fast according to them. Only 7 people were faster than me, in that sense.) It took some people more or less time to earn a belt, depending on how quickly they learned. However, I remember one guy that literally stalled at a belt or two- but seriously, it was becaused he sucked. He REALLY sucked, and he never tried. I think his parents were just pressuring him to do it, I dont think it was what he wanted. Either that or he was just massivly lazy I don't know. (after a period of this, my teachers ended up really going down hard on him...i.e. they MADE SURE he worked hard. :eek: then he disapeared. lol) Actually I think there was at least one other kid like that but he also left, he never even got halfway through the belts.

But me? I'd often work so hard I'd be on the verge of passing out. :D It really changed my life, and I've even visited my teachers a couple times since I stopped going their, just to say hi.

Yet for the first year, they wore the name of a McDojo (which apparntly they now can tell you- that the guy who ran the whole franchise/Dojo was arrogent, and they didnt agree with his buisness practices)

So maybe a McDojo isn't so bad, as long the teachers you train under break off from the McDojo shortly after you join them. :D Maybe it also has more to do with the teacher doing the teaching then anything else.

Just my two cents.