South Korean Hostages

[KO1598]

Has anyone heard about the terms of the release for the SK hostages, the 200 non-combative troops (whatever that means, i thought soldiers fight but w/e) are to be withdrawn and apparently 20 million was paid to the Taliban. How weak can South Korea be, I'm half korean and this is pretty embarrassing. Now that they've given into the Taliban they can't show their face around the Middle East again. And you know what, the Korean hostages deserved whatever fate they should've faced if SK hadn't given into the Taliban. I heard that at the SK airport that they were stopped and told they couldn't go to Afganistan but they threatened to sue so they let them through. And the fact that they traveled without protection makes even more idiotic. If you're gonna be a missionary in a unpacified country you should be appropiately armed for the spreading of the gospel. God never said you couldn't fight.

[xvikingx]

appropiately armed for the spreading of the gospel
YOINK! I'm stealing this little beauty.

[JoonShik]

haha. Well, from what I heard, the Korean government didnt even know they were going, and if they were threatened to sue, it wouldnt matter because there's a war going on in the Mid East and that's all the government has to say to protect the missionaries from going to Afgahnistan.

[tgsfg]

Has anyone heard about the terms of the release for the SK hostages, the 200 non-combative troops (whatever that means, i thought soldiers fight but w/e) are to be withdrawn and apparently 20 million was paid to the Taliban. How weak can South Korea be, I'm half korean and this is pretty embarrassing. Now that they've given into the Taliban they can't show their face around the Middle East again. And you know what, the Korean hostages deserved whatever fate they should've faced if SK hadn't given into the Taliban. I heard that at the SK airport that they were stopped and told they couldn't go to Afganistan but they threatened to sue so they let them through. And the fact that they traveled without protection makes even more idiotic. If you're gonna be a missionary in a unpacified country you should be appropiately armed for the spreading of the gospel. God never said you couldn't fight.

They should've just brought 1,000 armed Crusaders to march through Afghanistan killing anyone that wouldn't convert to Christianity huh?

These people risked their lives to send a message that they believed strongly in. You can judge Christians if you want to, but these people went there risking their lives because they didn't want people going to hell. As far as the missionary and Christians are concerned, they were trying to save the souls while risking their own life.

[Owen]

missionaries are stupid. it isnt ok to go around saying "your religion is wrong. this is the correct one."

religion should be a choice. for a country that has freedom of religion the US sure does have strong christian overtones and influence.

[Onara]

it isnt ok to go around saying "your religion is wrong. this is the correct one."



You think that's a very nice idea, most Islamic countries disagree with you and would kill you if you showed up in person to deliver the message.

[Sutemi]

You think that's a very nice idea, most Islamic countries disagree with you and would kill you if you showed up in person to deliver the message.

There are many countries, beyond the Islamic Middle East, that would do this also. The United States isn't far from such extremism also, especially with this administration. We shouldn't go around throwing rocks out of our glass house, over here.

[Decado]

They should've just brought 1,000 armed Crusaders to march through Afghanistan killing anyone that wouldn't convert to Christianity huh?

These people risked their lives to send a message that they believed strongly in. You can judge Christians if you want to, but these people went there risking their lives because they didn't want people going to hell. As far as the missionary and Christians are concerned, they were trying to save the souls while risking their own life.

Why would they be going to hell? They both believe in the same god although they call him different names.

As far as I am concerned the missionaries should have just been left where they were. They took the risk for their own foolish ideas so it's their problem.

[mingshi]

... these people went there risking their lives because they didn't want people going to hell.

In this case those Koreans were not only risking their own lives but also make their government vulnerable to terrorist whatever demands. They could have all been martyrs by now if they were truly prepared for the "risk". They should study more about the situation and understand what problems they would face when they got into a dangerous zone like this.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but you should be responsible for your actions if you put yourself at risk. Same goes for all these Chinese workers who believed they can find jobs in Iraq/Afghan - some got kidnapped because the local thought they were Japanese...

[Onara]

There are many countries, beyond the Islamic Middle East, that would do this also. The United States isn't far from such extremism also, especially with this administration. .


Yes it is. Very, very far from it. Don't get over excited because of your politics.

[Koki]

I think they are just naive. Kinda like the Bush administration. They thought people would just open their door and welcome them to "spread the message of God."

Only the fools are so sure of themselves.

[ahmed61086]

Some muslim countries ban missionary work. Yet still some people think they can go in and do what they want.

A while back a guy from afganistan converted to christianity and they wanted to have him executed for apostacy. Now why would a christian missionary think that its OK to go into that country and try to convert people to christianity? If they will kill the apostate, what do you think they will do to the missionary?

[ahmed61086]

This is what I found when I searched youtube for video about this situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVRG1NupctE


Apparently more koreans are converting to Islam than the other way around.

[ahmed61086]

Whoops, realy sorry for the trip post. I thought that video had to do with afganistan, when it is actually about Iraq.

My bad.

[KO1598]

They should've just brought 1,000 armed Crusaders to march through Afghanistan killing anyone that wouldn't convert to Christianity huh?

These people risked their lives to send a message that they believed strongly in. You can judge Christians if you want to, but these people went there risking their lives because they didn't want people going to hell. As far as the missionary and Christians are concerned, they were trying to save the souls while risking their own life.


Uh no, they should've hired some private security guards that had some sort of paramilitary experience to protect them and check out the roads before they went. They did risk their life and I appreciate that but theirs a fine line between stupidity and bravery, in this case I think they had 90% bravery and 10% stupidity, but even that 10% is enough to get them killled, remember not all the hostages were released, 2 died. I wonder how they feel about that.

[Sutemi]

Yes it is. Very, very far from it. Don't get over excited because of your politics.

In theory, yes. The constitution outright denies the allowence of any federally-sponsored religion. But given our rhetoric in the international arena, and our government's well-known Christian bias riding along side this administration's incredibly shady practices, do you really think that we have any right to ride the ideological high-ground over any country?

I love the United States completely, but the simple fact that questioning our administration seems to make you unpatriotic nowadays is more than disturbing. Screw politics, we're not making a lot of sense right now as a country.

[Onara]

do you really think that we have any right to ride the ideological high-ground over any country?


Of course. You let hyperbole cloud perception if you can't see how.

[Fudo-Shin]

Of course. You let hyperbole cloud perception if you can't see how.You are the classic 'Frog in the well' Onara.

[Onara]

Yeah, yeah, everyone wants to believe they are on the topside of the well, but...

[tgsfg]

Why would they be going to hell? They both believe in the same god although they call him different names.

As far as I am concerned the missionaries should have just been left where they were. They took the risk for their own foolish ideas so it's their problem.


In this case those Koreans were not only risking their own lives but also make their government vulnerable to terrorist whatever demands. They could have all been martyrs by now if they were truly prepared for the "risk". They should study more about the situation and understand what problems they would face when they got into a dangerous zone like this.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but you should be responsible for your actions if you put yourself at risk. Same goes for all these Chinese workers who believed they can find jobs in Iraq/Afghan - some got kidnapped because the local thought they were Japanese...


Some muslim countries ban missionary work. Yet still some people think they can go in and do what they want.

A while back a guy from afganistan converted to christianity and they wanted to have him executed for apostacy. Now why would a christian missionary think that its OK to go into that country and try to convert people to christianity? If they will kill the apostate, what do you think they will do to the missionary?

Everyone is looking at things from a non-Christian view. Of course all this looks stupid from your points of view. They risked their lives and put their government in a very bad position all for the sake of pushing their "stupid" faith onto other people. At the very least, consider what I said. They went there because they believe that non Christians are going to hell, a fate worse than anything else, so they risk their lives to try and save complete strangers from it. At the very least, they had good heart/intentions.


Why would they be going to hell? They both believe in the same god although they call him different names.
Islam doesn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah God promised; Christians do.

[Decado]

Everyone is looking at things from a non-Christian view. Of course all this looks stupid from your points of view. They risked their lives and put their government in a very bad position all for the sake of pushing their "stupid" faith onto other people. At the very least, consider what I said. They went there because they believe that non Christians are going to hell, a fate worse than anything else, so they risk their lives to try and save complete strangers from it. At the very least, they had good heart/intentions.

Sorry, but I think they were arrogant and stupid. They are convinced their way is the only way and everyone else is wrong. Why didn't they stay in their own country? I'm sure there are lots of people who are non-Christian or non-believers.

Islam doesn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah God promised; Christians do.

As far as I am aware Jesus is considered as one of the prophets in Islam (happy to be corrected on that one) but the god in both religions is the same. But then even different factions of the same religion are happy to fight each other over semantics.



Beyond what I have said above, a person's religion is extremely personal to them and a person should be allowed to practise their religion freely (as long as they don't preach hatred or want to exterminate non-believers). I just wish they would keep it to themselves and not assume other people want to know about it. 'Nuff said!

[Owen]

i think we need mr religions opinion.

[tgsfg]

Sorry, but I think they were arrogant and stupid. They are convinced their way is the only way and everyone else is wrong. Why didn't they stay in their own country? I'm sure there are lots of people who are non-Christian or non-believers.
Of course they think their faith is the correct faith, why else would they believe it? Unfortunately for you, it is part of the Christian faith to spread the word. Long time ago, stupid Christians used to sword to preach, but not anymore right? None of them wanted to force anyone; they just hoped. As for your final comment, I completely agree. I think it's important to "preach" nearby instead of going far away first. I think they decided to go to Afghanistan because lot of those people live and die without hearing about what the Christian faith is about.


As far as I am aware Jesus is considered as one of the prophets in Islam (happy to be corrected on that one) but the god in both religions is the same. But then even different factions of the same religion are happy to fight each other over semantics.
A prophet and a messiah are very different. Brush up on the beliefs of the two religion.


Beyond what I have said above, a person's religion is extremely personal to them and a person should be allowed to practise their religion freely (as long as they don't preach hatred or want to exterminate non-believers). I just wish they would keep it to themselves and not assume other people want to know about it. 'Nuff said!

Like I said, these people had good intentions. To them, though you may not believe it, these people are going to hell and don't know about it. It's almost like stopping someone from committing suicide. You can't see it that way if you don't look at it from the perspective of the missionaries though.

[ahmed61086]

A prophet and a messiah are very different. Brush up on the beliefs of the two religion.





I realy have to disagree with you there. Messiah, in Hebrew, means, "the annoited" or "annointed one". All prophets are "annointed" by God.

Yet, "the messiah" was a title given to Jesus(pbuh) in the scriptures. Many people misunderstand the World messiah because of the Dogma behind it.

In Islam, Jesus's title is Also Messiah, and Isa(jesus) son of Mary, and few others. Technically, all prophets are "annointed ones", but Jesus was the one who was given the title, "annointed".

But, obviously, the difference in belief of what jesus(pbuh) is in Christianity and Islam are totally different, unless you belong to a Unitarian Church. :)



P.S. Some people think Messiah means savior, which is very incorrect.

[KO1598]

whatever it doesnt really matter, wut does matter is that christians believe jesus is the son of God, islam does not,allah does not have a son as far as I'm concerned, and you cant say they're the same, how could they be, christianity was started 600 years before Islam and judaism thousands of years before. The only book that claims all 3 books the torah, bible and qur'an have similar origin is the qur'an. Besides the Qur'an was written down by Muhammad where'es the bible was a compilation of basically a general history of the middle eastern region with teachings in each book written down by different scholars.

[ahmed61086]

whatever it doesnt really matter, wut does matter is that christians believe jesus is the son of God, islam does not,allah does not have a son as far as I'm concerned, and you cant say they're the same, how could they be, christianity was started 600 years before Islam and judaism thousands of years before. The only book that claims all 3 books the torah, bible and qur'an have similar origin is the qur'an. Besides the Qur'an was written down by Muhammad where'es the bible was a compilation of basically a general history of the middle eastern region with teachings in each book written down by different scholars.

I guess you didn't read my post, neh?

All I said was that Messiah and Prophet are similar, when taken linguistically, and not taken from Christian dogma. The jews understand the Torah better than christians, try telling them what Messiah means. There sure as hell wont tell you it means divine person, ect.

You using the word Allah, as if it means something other than God shows me your knowledge of Islam and the Arabic language is deficient. All Arabic Bibles use the Word Allah for God. Or do you think Jesus(pbuh) spoke english? Actually, Jesus(pbuh) used the word, "elloh" for God, which is the hebrew word for Allah.



The only book that claims all three books, the torah bible and qur'an have similar origin is the qur'an


Well, I would disagree in a sense, but pose this question. Where in the whole bible does the bible say the word bible? Nowhere. Where does the bible say new testament, ect. I could give you verses prophecising about Muhammad, in the bible, if you wou would like. And since Muhammad was the vessel in which the Quran was revealed, since the bible prophecied about him it doesn't need to talk about the quran, yet it still does in many verses.




Deuteronomy 18.18

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them everything that I command. Anyone who does not heed the words that the prophet shall speak in my name, I Myself will hold accountable.





ISAIAH 29.12

And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

Hmmm...a prophet who can't read, being delivered a book...



the quran was written by Muhammad


Yeh, a book written by an illiterate man....

I wonder how an illiterate man would write a book the size of the new testament, which would last over 1400 years without being changed, and still being considered the most beutiful and best arabic literature ever written.


There are hundreds of other verses in the Bible I can quote to you and explain, but it would take hours. And you probably dont want me to anyway. Cheers.

[KO1598]

Ok Muhammad didn't write them down, but he recited them to a write who recorded them which is basically the same thing as writing it. I use the word allah to not confuse the christian god with the muslim god since most of us english speakers refer to the christian god as god. i know allah means god in arabic, like sahara means desert in arabic. And as for your theory that Muhammad was the prophesized prophet in the bible thats purely based on opinion and cannot be proved. And your 2 quotes are from 2 different books, for all i know you're just combining 2 different quotes that refer to different things.

[Gessho]

religion should be a choice. for a country that has freedom of religion the US sure does have strong christian overtones and influence.

Probably because most of the people here are Christian as were most of the people before them. Freedom of religion is not freedom FROM religion.

Not that I am Christian but some of my best friends....:smiley:

[ahmed61086]

Ok Muhammad didn't write them down, but he recited them to a write who recorded them which is basically the same thing as writing it. I use the word allah to not confuse the christian god with the muslim god since most of us english speakers refer to the christian god as god. i know allah means god in arabic, like sahara means desert in arabic. And as for your theory that Muhammad was the prophesized prophet in the bible thats purely based on opinion and cannot be proved. And your 2 quotes are from 2 different books, for all i know you're just combining 2 different quotes that refer to different things.

Well, if one is a christian who worships Jesus, then yes, we do worship different Gods. But if one is a christian who worships God/Yahweh, than we worship the same. The God of Abraham.

Well, if you say it can't be proved, than nothing can be proved. But I could prove it, but like I said, I would have to write it all out or paste it. Do you want me to?

Actually both verses are referring to "That prophet".

[KO1598]

And if you forget Owen in the pledge of allegiance the word God is used and on dollar bill it says In God we trust. The founders of America were christian and would have expected that America would remain christian. If they could see into the future and see how many are not christians they prob would've made a rule saying everybody has to be christian. In fact in the 1700's if you didnt go to church and loitered around town and were well known you could get asked by the constable a few questions. The founders of america gave us the benefit of the doubt that we would remain christian.

[KO1598]

Actually both verses are referring to "That prophet".

Wow thank you for clearing that up, you know you didn't give me any proof that they are referring to the same prophet except your own opinion

[ahmed61086]

Wow thank you for clearing that up, you know you didn't give me any proof that they are referring to the same prophet except your own opinion

WOW!

Again your lack of Biblical knowledge seems deficient.


There are many prophecies in the bibles which have names given to them, so that scholars can know which ones identify with another.

Torah scholars refer to these two verses(and others) as prophecies of "that prophet". That is what it is called whenever there is a prophecy coinciding with the prophet which Moses was informed of, ie. "that prophet". For example.



Bible - John 1:20

The chief priests and Levites asked John the Baptist, "If you are not the Christ (Messiah), and not Elijah - are you THAT Prophet?"




When the chief priests and Levites asked John the Baptist who he was, they asked him in a very strange way. First they questioned him as to whether or not he was the anticipated "Messiah" [Christ in Koine Greek]. He was not the "Messiah" that had hoped for. Next they asked if he was the prophet Elijah and again he tells them, "No." Now comes the really strange part. Finally, they asked him if he is "That Prophet?"

And he again said no. So he was John was not the Messiah as we know, not Elijah, and not "that prophet".

Now since John isn't that prophet, and since Jesus cannot be "that prophet" according to Christians, since he is not a prophet in Chritianity. Who is "that prophet"?

[KO1598]

yes indeed, whos that prophet, americas next great reality tv show

[ahmed61086]

yes indeed, whos that prophet, americas next great reality tv show

Dont have an intelligent response, neh?

So you comeback with a joke....

Since you no longer have any response, no point in discussing with you.

Have a day. Peace.

[KO1598]

actually i didn't feel like discussing this any longer since its obivsous we have different views and won't agree on anything. and what do you mean have a day, you know you're gonna read my response, this is the internet, not a debate room. so you cant make it seem as if you're leaving cuz technically you cant.

[Owen]

yeah well my religion can beat up your religion... :D

[KO1598]

oh its ooooooon, its on, i'd like to see your religion try.

[Owen]

oh it'll try, and it'll win. pastafarianism will kick christianity's ass back to before it was created.

[ahmed61086]

actually i didn't feel like discussing this any longer since its obivsous we have different views and won't agree on anything. and what do you mean have a day, you know you're gonna read my response, this is the internet, not a debate room. so you cant make it seem as if you're leaving cuz technically you cant.

I can tell you to have a nice day, without leaving. I just realy want you to have a nice day! :)

[Owen]

actually you just said "have a day"

:D

[verissimus]

oh it'll try, and it'll win. pastafarianism will kick christianity's ass back to before it was created.

Beat it with what? Meatball marinara and a bottle of Lambrusco?

[KO1598]

yeah just wait till i reverse jesus's water into and wine and change your wine into water. and then we'll see your flying spaghetti monster get crucified.

[Owen]

oh yeah? well he'll just touch jeebus with HNA and itll be all over. oh yeah. and all the pirates will kick your ass too. :D

[KO1598]

no need for jesus to worry about pirates, jesus can walk on water, just wait till the pirates are staring down the barrel on a minigun

[Owen]

theyll blast his ass with a cannon. but FSM will just go back in time and stop jeebus from ever being born. take that christianity.

[KO1598]

oh yeah just wait till we tell the roman soldiers theres a baby disguised as a FSM in bethleham

[tgsfg]

I realy have to disagree with you there. Messiah, in Hebrew, means, "the annoited" or "annointed one". All prophets are "annointed" by God.

Yet, "the messiah" was a title given to Jesus(pbuh) in the scriptures. Many people misunderstand the World messiah because of the Dogma behind it.

In Islam, Jesus's title is Also Messiah, and Isa(jesus) son of Mary, and few others. Technically, all prophets are "annointed ones", but Jesus was the one who was given the title, "annointed".

But, obviously, the difference in belief of what jesus(pbuh) is in Christianity and Islam are totally different, unless you belong to a Unitarian Church. :)



P.S. Some people think Messiah means savior, which is very incorrect.

Messiah
1. the promised and expected deliverer of the Jewish people.

Messiah and Christ(Greek) both mean anointed one in their native language, but we say "the Messiah" or "the Christ" to refer to either Jesus Christ for Christians, or the one the Jews are waiting for.

BTW, what is the Muslim view on the Savior issue? Do they believe a savior is coming? or has come? or not at all?

[ahmed61086]

Messiah
1. the promised and expected deliverer of the Jewish people.

Messiah and Christ(Greek) both mean anointed one in their native language, but we say "the Messiah" or "the Christ" to refer to either Jesus Christ for Christians, or the one the Jews are waiting for.

BTW, what is the Muslim view on the Savior issue? Do they believe a savior is coming? or has come? or not at all?

Pm'ed you.