Favourite counter techniques

[Pokie]

Hi guys/gals, so what's your fave counter technique..against any cut ! Any counter out there that have stuck in your mind that you've successfully executed ? Or any counter that you dream of, wishing one day that you can perfect it and make it come out naturally ? If you have please share with us, you might see something new too. As for me, I'm a newbie, 2 months in armour now, only thing I can counter for now are men cuts with kote...ahhh...love that feeling..when they're all charged up...eyes blazing...then mee..koteeeee !!!

[D'Artagnan]

thats quite a hard one actually, i don't really think i have an ultimate favouite,
i think everyone likes 'men-kaeshi-do', but then there is nothing quite like the feeling you get from a well exicuted 'men-debana-kote' and also not forgetting 'kote-nuki-men' which also gives a unique feeling. i don't think i can pick a favourite oji-waza, but if i was to it would be one of these three.

sorry for being a bit vague...


A

[Nishi]

Seme-debana-waza

[Shazzanzzz]

sidestepping to the left then hit kote is the easiest one for me to do, works on almost everyone if i can get them to attack, works when they try for kote or men.

Favorites are men suriage men, men kaeshi do, kote-nuki-men also.

[JSchmidt]

Kote-suriage-men. I don't even have to think about it any longer :)

[mingshi]

All of the Uchi-otoshi ones! Bokuto Kihon #9 is the best! I got quite addicted to that.

[Goomba]

I'm partial to the debana wazas. I like men-debana-kote. It's chock full of buttery goodness.

[Tato]

Kote Nuki Men, as all the members of my dojo know pretty well by know, I'm a bit tall, that helps ;)

The trouble of being addicted to a oji-waza is that we became predictable, so now I try not to use the same one more than a couple of times per session.

Debana IS hard to achieve, but I'll keep on trying.

Cheers

[Marine_Boy]

Pretend to look at something else and make the expression on you face to be either important or confused. When the other person hesitates... Then POW!

Hee Hee :shocked:

[KeijockMuniz]

Kote-Nuki-Men for sure, and uchi otoshi also rules....

[]´s!

[Eldritch Knight]

men-debana-do, or kote-kaeshi-men are my favorites

[KATSUJIN]

ktoe-nuki-men, debana kote, debana men and kaeshi-do( although i not tat good at doing do)....:D

[xvikingx]

I not good so I am not fast enough for oji-waza or debana-waza yet. So at my level my favorite technique (I guess it's not really a technique) would have to be a strong chuudan. I like seeing people skewer themselves on my shinai. That's usually followed by harai-waza and a firm @$$ beating. :ko:

[slidercrank]

I have a huge philosophical issue with the original question and the responses thus far.

What is a "countering technique?" If we are to take the term to be merely the direct English translation of "oji waza," then I suppose any response that is either a nuki or kaeshi waza is ok. And by that definition, a debana waza is not a countering technique. It's your seme that forces your aite to strike. Whatever he does is what you want him to do. By the time his muscle begins to twitch and his shinai to move, you are already prepared to move, mentally and physically. Otherwise, how can your debana men get there faster than his men? Any debana waza should not be thought of as a countering technique if, as I have assumed, a "countering technique" means an oji waza.

However, if by "countering technique" the original poster means to ask what to do when your opponent has taken advantage of your lapse in concertration, weakness in seme, or just plain lack of center, then I don't believe there is any countering technique other than blocking or dodging. You have been caught with your pants down, so to speak. Thus, there's no hope for you to block or dodge and then to counter attack effectively, unless your oppponent is far below you in ability. Any kenshi of your level or superior will have such seme, speed and zanshin in his attack that you will be lucky to just evade it by blocking or dodging, let along trying to execute any waza effectively.

It is my view that even a nuki or kaeshi waza can be executed effectively if and only if you are in full control of your mind, body and opponent. A men-kaeshi-dou does not mean you WAIT until you see a men strike and THEN decide to counter with a kaeshi dou. You will never have time to do that and still have enough maai from your oppoent to cut dou properly.

I feel the latter scenario is what the original question means with his question. If so, then even a nuki or a kaeshi waza should not be an answer to that question.

This is my humble opinion.

[m_french]

I have a huge philosophical issue with the original question and the responses thus far.



This is my humble opinion.
Very well put but I'm not sure humble is the correct word. :beard:

[Neil Gendzwill]

a debana waza is not a countering technique. It's your seme that forces your aite to strike.
It's the same for any oji-waza. I believe that de-kote, kaeshi-doh, suriagi-men or nuki-men are all examples of oji-waza and all require some management of the opponent to really work well.

[mingshi]

What is a "countering technique?" ...
By definition... it has a lot to do with "who initiates the action", which brings up the concept of Sen-sen-no-sen, Sen-no-sen, and Go-no-sen... I think I read it in some kendo books, but anyway this brief version is in google:
http://www.wadokarate.co.uk/sen.htm


debana
One of the kendo books categorized Debana waza into Sen-no-sen (not 100% sure, but anyway)... In the Bokuto Kihon #7, Kote-debana-kote, this waza also belongs to Shikake waza according to AJKF, since you need to show Zanshin at that one (while in all the Oji waza, you don't need to).


It is my view that even a nuki or kaeshi waza can be executed effectively if and only if you are in full control of your mind, body and opponent.
In any case, whether you make your opponent cut first and then counter-cut, or you went "Ooops he's going for Men!!", you KNOW it is coming. IMHO you don't necessary need to control the opponent, but rather control the "situation" at that particular instance. It's probably like at your early stage of doing Kendo Kata, you KNOW all the movements and where to go. When you get better it's not just about movement, but more about pressuring the ai-te at the right time and distance to create the opportunity.


A men-kaeshi-dou does not mean you WAIT until you see a men strike and THEN decide to counter with a kaeshi dou. You will never have time to do that and still have enough maai from your oppoent to cut dou properly.
REALLY?? This is in Bokuto Kihon #8, and to do this one I have to wait... (am I doing it wrong then? hmm)

YMMV

[Neil Gendzwill]

Interesting, a quick google shows some people think of debana-waza as shikake-waza and others think of it as neither oji-waza nor shikake-waza but in it's own category. I guess either way I'm wrong about considering it to be oji-waza.

[Nishi]

You should always have the spirit of attacking even when using counter techniques, but this should'nt confuse shikake from oji...I feel that for the simple purpose of catogorizing these waza at early stages of kendo...the one who physically attacks is using shikake, and the one who chooses a technique to defend is using oji-waza....

Now philosophically speaking, at higher levels of kendo, im told there is no oji-waza(in that sense), you will just respond, shikake and oji are just lines and boundries that will eventually disolve, and debana is early evidence.

[Nishi]

Just had a browse through some of my kendo literature...and in all discussion areas debana-waza is placed in the shikake category...Even in the definitive guide, Hiroshi Ozawa places debana as shikake.

Interesting...

[Chook]

I managed a completely BS cut last week... successfully countered a men cut with a textbook hya-suburi and got a flawless point :D

[tango]

i'm a big fan of suriage waza. men-suriage-men is probably my favorite and i've been working on it for quite a long time now.. just like somebody back on page 1 of this thread, i don't really have to think about it now... BUT.. i'm almost in danger of using it too much.

..must work on other waza.

[olaf]

Slidercrank & other folks,

Very interesting points about the importance of initiating, and controlling the attack in deploying oji-waza even though one is technically "countering", or "reacting" to the opponent.

As for the debate over debana-waza:

"Kendo Fundamentals: vol. 2, Personal Attack & Defense Skills, Training (Keiko)" by the All-Japan Kendo Federation (ZNKR) - to my surprise - lists debana-waza under shikake. Personally I don't exactly see why. You induce the opponent to attack, capitalize on the small window of opportunity that emerges when he breaks his kamae and goes for the point, and score before he does...

Anyway. In answering the original post, I'd vote for men-uchiotoshi-men as my favorite. Now...if only I could do it. :)

[olaf]

Silly me for answering my own question re: debana-waza as shikake. I think the logic is that with debana-waza, you're not physically "countering" any attack.

Issues of seme and "initiating" aside, in all debana-waza, you "terminate/defeat" an opponent's attempt at an attack via some shinai parry motion, and continue to carry out an attack of your own. In short, the opponent attacks, you stop him, and attack yourself, successfully. With debana-waza, since you're effectively "beating" your opponent to the point, there's nothing to "counter".

Make sense, folks?