ZNKR first?

[A. Henriksson]

This may not be the case where you live but in Sweden everyone has told me that in iaido you always should start with ZNKR iaido and then advance to koryu.

Why?
I mean the koryu where around before ZNKR iai. Many generations have managed to learn iai without ZNKR, isn´t that possible anymore? :confused:

And how long should I train before I buy iaito? How long before shinken? Are tozandos cheap iaitos any good ore do I have to buy a more expensive one?

[hamish]

As for learning the ZNKR iai first, the main reason is that initially you will only need ZNKR iai to sit gradings, koryu do not become a required part of the grading syllabus until about shodan or so, from memory. Even then, ZNKR kata still make up the majority of kata you need to pass.

In competition, too, you can do only ZNKR and not do any koryu if you so wish. However, as many sensei are quick to point out, you will not reach a full understanding of iai just from the ZNKR set.

This is the case in Japan, at least, and almost all Japanese sensei would start from ZNKR, and then move into koryu. I'm not aware of any vaild reason otherwise, as people have been doing iai for a lot longer than the ZNKR has been around, as you point out.

Hamish

[A. Henriksson]

what do the koryu think of starting with ZNKR? I know the ZNKR guys think that you have to train koryu when you reach dan level but do all koryu nowadays teach their beginners ZNKR first?
I´ve heard of one guy who has trained MSR without training ZNKR. Isn´t there more guys like him around? Did all koryu say "ok, we can´t train our style anymore until we have learned ZNKR iai" when the ZNKR kata was introduced?
Like they all of a sudden would change traditional training that has been going on for hundreds of years just because the japanese kendo federation thinks that kendoka should start with ZNKR.

Just wondering... Sounds silly to me. (no disrespect to ZNKR iai, I train that myself (as a beginner)).

[hamish]

Not all dojo or koryu are under the umbrella of the ZNKR, of course, but it is by far the largest.

The stated goals of introducing the ZNKR kata are to enable people from diverse styles to train and compete together, and to make a level playing field for grading standards. These are obviously very important benefits to doing the seitei first, or at least for initially weighting beginners' training more towards the seitei than koryu.

Individual sensei may decide not to teach seitei first, but it may be to the detriment of their students' progress as regards gradings and competition performance.

Not that either are the be all and end all, but given Japanese society's obsession with rankings and one's standing it's not surprising.

[chidokan]

Hamish is correct, not all dojos are under the ZNKR, there is the ZNIR as well, which teaches a similar 'set' of basic iaido kata.
Personally I have not practised the ZNKR set for a while and focus on my own koryu, MJER, as there is enough to learn without worrying about the grading sets. Like most of the people I train with, the koryu take precedence.
This beginners set is not necessary to learn, although it does contain a good basic guideline to handling the sword. My own teacher, who was involved with setting this system up, now regrets doing this due to peoples obsession with gradings and competitions. He has also mentioned that the main reason for 'inventing' them was to try to get kendo people interested in iaido before it died out!
You do not have to learn them, it is a personal choice.
I would not buy an iaito until you feel comfortable using a bokken, usually about three months after you start training. Tozando, Meirin iaito etc are o.k. you should pay about £300 (dont know the currency conversion!) for the single blade.
Shinken I would leave for a while, you will have enough trouble trying to do noto properly without worrying about cutting your hand off!:D

Tim

[Kent Enfield]

Originally posted by Hamish
Individual sensei may decide not to teach seitei first, but it may be to the detriment of their students' progress as regards gradings and competition performance.

Odd that you should write that. One of the sensei in my regional federation (part of AUSKF) at least used to start teaching iaido by teaching the Omori Ryu section of MSR before teaching the seitei gata. One man who started studying under him (back when there were only seven seitei gata), is now godan in iaido and won the tournament at last year's AUSKF Iaido Summer Camp.

The being said, his seitei gata does look a lot more like MSR than many others', whose MSR looks like kendo/seitei gata.

[chidokan]

You may be interested to learn that Omori ryu ( seiza no bu) was originally put together to help people learn iaido!

Tim