Elbow & Wrist protectors

[gholam]

How necessary are Elbow or Wrist protectors? Has anyone any experience from them?

[Halcyon]

Depends on what's hurting and how. If nothing is hurting, don't bother.

[Berserker]

Some of the guys at the dojo wear wrist protectors (Either the ones from e-bogu or normal padded paintball protectors) because the constant kote from beginners can really hurt...



But hell, what do I know?? :)

[Anime12478]

I've been having issues from beginners and advanced people alike hitting too hard. It might have something to do with my boney wrists or something though. Some kote strikes still hurt but not as bad as they would without it. I say that if the strikes are hurting you, then get them. If not, then it would just be money wasted on your part. For the elbows, I never used them so there's nothing I can say about that. But getting hit in the elbows are more of a freak accident than a frequent occurance so I'd pass on those.

[Sparv]

But getting hit in the elbows are more of a freak accident than a frequent occurance

I once heard this "waza" being called something witch can be translated by "blue elbow hammerdo" (hammerdo in one word for the Japanese look).

It's part of the "disabling then disarming" ryu, with some tsuki's and kote's variants. The master waza is the tsuki to the balls under the tare.

I think that around one people in ten uses wrist pads at my dojo.

[Sparv]

I was forgetting: that's "shiai-kendo" :wink:

[Alicia]

I have had a problem with hyper extension of my elbow, for the last year or so, which has been quite a nuisance to my kendo, and was progressively getting worse until I started wearing an elbow protector. I think the compression limited the movement a little, which seems to have helped quite a lot, although I don't think it makes any differrence as far as getting hit on the elbow goes. However it is quite difficult to find one that fits well, too tight and it constricts movement too much/cuts off blood supply, too lose and it doesn;t do anything. If you dont have one that fits, you are better off without one I think.

[sminch]

most of the guys who are reasonably new at our dojo wear wrist protection - generally just a kid's size soccer shin pad under the kote. works a treat, cheap as chips.

sminch

[foundinsea]

There are a few different kinds and I wear a wrist and elbow protector occasionally...usually only with beginners or when I'm doing keiko with this rather nasty (but nice) sensei who keeps hitting my elbow when he tries hiki-do. The wrist protector will end up limiting your wrist movement and it can be a rather tight fit getting your hand back into the kote. I've seen some people just use sweat bands and that seems to work fine. The elbow protectors do fit a bit tight, so if you really feel you need one, get one that fits a bit looser. That being said though, I've since stopped using my protectors (can't seem to find them) and just take the pain...it doesn't hurt so much anymore cause I think all the nerve endings are now dead...except when some beginner gets that lucky shot to that nub on the wrist bone...

[Berserker]

I also use a sweat band underneath my kote... It does make a slight difference, but I use it during suburi for what it's made - sweat... :)

[gholam]

I also use a sweat band underneath my kote... It does make a slight difference, but I use it during suburi for what it's made - sweat... :)

I have a couple of those sweat bands too. Using them during suburi of course...(Well, after suburi...)

[gholam]

I was just a bit worried of those beginner do cuts...Perhaps I can try wearing my inline-elbow protectors. If nobody laughed at me (they're a bit puffy and serious looking), I'll live with them.

[dwez]

I always wear an elbow protector on my right arm. There was a cheap pair on ebay and having so many people apologies when they catch my elbow, well it's just one less thing to worry about. I wear a wrist protector also, the one from 9circles.

I see no reason not to wear added protection if it is available. However you may find the inline-elbow protectors my be too much when taking into account all the flexibility needed in your arm movements. You'll only find out after practice though.

[gholam]

I always wear an elbow protector on my right arm. There was a cheap pair on ebay and having so many people apologies when they catch my elbow, well it's just one less thing to worry about. I wear a wrist protector also, the one from 9circles.

I see no reason not to wear added protection if it is available. However you may find the inline-elbow protectors my be too much when taking into account all the flexibility needed in your arm movements. You'll only find out after practice though.

That is true. I should try them on and then decide whether I should buy those from 9circle or not. It's just that delivery cost one always tries to avoid...
By the way, I just saw that you live in Ormskirk. At first glance, I thought it read Ormskrik, which in Swedish would mean "scream of snake". That would be a proper place to shoot a low budget horror movie or have a Halloween party :)

[dwez]

By the way, I just saw that you live in Ormskirk. At first glance, I thought it read Ormskrik, which in Swedish would mean "scream of snake". That would be a proper place to shoot a low budget horror movie or have a Halloween party :)

We did have a very good Hallowe'en party, between 50-60 trick or treaters, actually it was a slow night but we enjoyed it. Apparently Orm was a viking, and he built a kirk [church] here hence Orm's Kirk.

For more info you can try the made up stuff here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ormskirk)

Or the alternatively made up stuff here. (http://www.knowhere.co.uk/4116_goodbad.html)

[Inner_Silence]

I use the following extra protection:

- Custom made men pad. Ive tried the fabric one but it was too hard and stiff, so I kind of made my own with special material. sometimes it still feels that I need better protection for the thinking muscle. there are so little professions in the world in wich that you get paid for thinking, mine is one of those. I got SO used to it that now I just cant practice without my deluxe men pad.

- extra big tsuba, Just cant practice without this either. last year I had my right hand thumb fractured, and without the extra protection in the special tsuba if I get just a little bit hitted in my thumb, for some reason I freak out.

- elbow protector in the right arm, I dont wanna deal with the 80% of do strikes that ends in the elbow

- wrist protector in the right wrist. it isnt a "kote protector" mine just protects the wrist. I know that it doesnt even give a real protection, it is just to feel more secure about the broken thumb episode.

- custom made natural silk chin pad. my skin gets very irritated

I use this even if Im in tournament. I dont use elbow protector in shinsa.

[JSchmidt]

While you can argue the case for wrist padding, hard-shelled elbow protectors should not be necessary, unless you are carrying an injury.
If you are repeatedly getting hit on the elbows, either have a quiet chat with the people doing it ("You keep hitting me on the elbows. Why is that? ") or stop yanking your elbows down to block the do-cuts. (I see that a lot around ikkyu/shodans).

[foundinsea]

I was just a bit worried of those beginner do cuts...Perhaps I can try wearing my inline-elbow protectors. If nobody laughed at me (they're a bit puffy and serious looking), I'll live with them.

The elbow protector I had looked like a knee pad for volleyball. You could maybe just use one of those thin knee pads they have available (like for iaido) and just wear that on your elbow.

[gholam]

We did have a very good Hallowe'en party, between 50-60 trick or treaters, actually it was a slow night but we enjoyed it. Apparently Orm was a viking, and he built a kirk [church] here hence Orm's Kirk.

For more info you can try the made up stuff here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ormskirk)

Or the alternatively made up stuff here. (http://www.knowhere.co.uk/4116_goodbad.html)

That's some cool stuff dwez! In present Swedish, church is spelled kyrka, but orm is still a snake (not a dragon though, since that would be drake)...

[Chaby]

While you can argue the case for wrist padding, hard-shelled elbow protectors should not be necessary, unless you are carrying an injury.

Well U can't argue with any of them (pads),U should do Kendo in manner that feels comfortable doing it!
You can't tell anyone in what way to protect them self.
If there is an injury,mental barrier of pain or the blue-ish-ness factor.
Whatever makes you happy,unless it mess up proper practice of techniques.
Slowing you down does not count.

For the bottom line:
Well-being first anything else later!

[gholam]

- elbow protector in the right arm, I dont wanna deal with the 80% of do strikes that ends in the elbow


If 80% of the do strikes hit the elbow, then I think the inline elbow protectors are relevant indeed. Mine are those with a "cuhsion" and a hard shell on top.
I mean why wait until an injury is occurred, why not wear protection as a preventive precaution. Particularly at the beginners level.

[JSchmidt]

Well U can't argue with any of them (pads),U should do Kendo in manner that feels comfortable doing it!
You can't tell anyone in what way to protect them self.
If there is an injury,mental barrier of pain or the blue-ish-ness factor.
Whatever makes you happy,unless it mess up proper practice of techniques.
Slowing you down does not count.

For the bottom line:
Well-being first anything else later!

Kote,men, do & tsuki are the 4 targets we are supposed to hit in kendo. The elbows are not.
If you are repeatedly getting hit on the elbow, someone is doing something wrong and just padding up is not the solution.
Yes, there will be the odd miss, but that's part of kendo.
Further, if you are wearing hard-shelled elbow protectors, you are also increasing the chance of hurting your opponent in tai-atari, etc.

[emitbrownne]

I have a set of inline hardshell that I "de-shelled". The cushioning is more than enough to take the sting out of the cut. I do not wear them all the time, only if I am recovering from a previous elbow thwack.

If you need the shell to block heavy full force trauma, then you need to be fencing someone else.

But please listen to Jschmidt, you do not want to mask your own faults by being able to drop your elbows and the strike not hurt.

Padding for protection = yep
padding as a crutch for bad kendo = nope

[gholam]

I have a set of inline hardshell that I "de-shelled". The cushioning is more than enough to take the sting out of the cut. I do not wear them all the time, only if I am recovering from a previous elbow thwack.

If you need the shell to block heavy full force trauma, then you need to be fencing someone else.

But please listen to Jschmidt, you do not want to mask your own faults by being able to drop your elbows and the strike not hurt.

Padding for protection = yep
padding as a crutch for bad kendo = nope

That sounds sensible enough to me. I was just worried of beginners (like myself) gitting in to many "odd misses".

[foundinsea]

If you're practicing with other beginners like yourself, I'd worry more about getting smacked in the ribs than the elbow. However, I do have a sensei that uses one of those neoprene arm warmers like you can find in most sport shops. Although you will still likely feel the elbow hit, it will cushion your elbow and provide some protection and of course no bruising as well as being designed to be flexible.

[gholam]

If you're practicing with other beginners like yourself, I'd worry more about getting smacked in the ribs than the elbow. However, I do have a sensei that uses one of those neoprene arm warmers like you can find in most sport shops. Although you will still likely feel the elbow hit, it will cushion your elbow and provide some protection and of course no bruising as well as being designed to be flexible.

I c, OK! I'll bear that in mind.

[gawriele]

I am kinda new to kendo (2-3 months) and I've been wearing bogu for 2 weeks by now. Since that memorable moment I was told to get bogu on for the firt time I've been having permanent pain in my right wrist (along with some nasty bruises). Guys in my dojo are hitting quite hard and there are a lot of novices who are, I guess, mistaking shinai for a woodchopping axe, what makes me really stressed whenever sensei says to train kote. I've heard that reiho tells not to express that something is painful and take another hit without complaining (cause samurai never did, etc.). This is the reason why a lot of people leave training - just after the first keiko in bogu.
Well, I guess I can take it because I really fell in love with this sport (I was a soccer goalie so I kinda know how to handle pain), but I feel I am getting less and less joy from training. Any advice from you people? I've heard that one can use wrist protectors for tennis (these anti-sweat things) or forearm protectors for karate or soccer shin protectors for children (how can you fit these under kote, I do not know honestly...).

[MikeW]

You can loosen the himo that tie your kote on to the right hand to allow for padding. But if you don't use your protector your kote will be a little loose. I have 2 sets of kote and one is set to use a protector with and the other is not. I normally use a wrist pad for practice as I am in the motodachi position most of the time. What I have been using lately is a wrist sweat band wrapped with a wet suit style rubber strip. It does pretty well most of the time. I have used a variety of different wrist protectors over the past few years. I do not use any padding or protectors for shiai or shinsa.

I do not have a problem with elbows getting hit from do strikes typically. Sometimes a rib stinger yes, but not the elbow. Most of the worst rib hits have been form advanced kenshi and not beginners. In my experience beginners do not have the ability to hit the do strike with good strength and they are typically easy to block with the shinai. The worst rib cage injury I had was from a very good kenshi (he is a godan) that is very fast and strong. He just mis-hit a little bit. I was bruised and sore for 2 weeks from that one.

[skilled]

I use the following extra protection:

- Custom made men pad. Ive tried the fabric one but it was too hard and stiff, so I kind of made my own with special material. sometimes it still feels that I need better protection for the thinking muscle. there are so little professions in the world in wich that you get paid for thinking, mine is one of those. I got SO used to it that now I just cant practice without my deluxe men pad.

- extra big tsuba, Just cant practice without this either. last year I had my right hand thumb fractured, and without the extra protection in the special tsuba if I get just a little bit hitted in my thumb, for some reason I freak out.

- elbow protector in the right arm, I dont wanna deal with the 80% of do strikes that ends in the elbow

- wrist protector in the right wrist. it isnt a "kote protector" mine just protects the wrist. I know that it doesnt even give a real protection, it is just to feel more secure about the broken thumb episode.

- custom made natural silk chin pad. my skin gets very irritated

I use this even if Im in tournament. I dont use elbow protector in shinsa.

I agree in preventing injury and that's ok , but if you receive lots of hits in the elbow because of "bad DO" , you are protecting your DO in the wrong way , that happened to me when I started using bogu a long time ago , so my advice is that you must stop DO uchi using your tsuka, I bet you do that to protect DO sometimes , Use the Tsuka to stop DO , and your elbow will not suffer anymore =)

A healthy Elbow is a Happy Elbow =).

[monchichi]

You must all train in some kind of "mortal combat dojo" :)

Never felt the kote is very painful but i never (and i think my mates too) go fullpower on a keiko kote. Training is more about speed and precision after all, and for me it's part of the dojo courtesy. We're not supposed to treat our mates like douchbags. Perhaps i think this way because i train with kids and young women in my dojo.

In a shiai of course I use the strenght i feel necessary for a ippon-kote without worriyng about the pain i may cause. But in Shiai i think we are all so concentrated that we don't feel the pain ( you know, the "i realize in the shower i have a big bruise on my side but can't recall how the hell i did it" effect :ko:).

[braxtonhicks]

I'm attending my first class very soon, and am concerned about wrist and finger injuries, as I play music for a living. I wouldn't be wearing bogu for at least 6 months where I plan to train, but has anyone tried these?

http://www.chibabogu.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=220

Someone else had mentioned in another thread that when you wear bogu that stands out from everyone else's, you're kinda begging for a severe beat down. ???

[emitbrownne]

I'm attending my first class very soon, and am concerned about wrist and finger injuries, as I play music for a living. I wouldn't be wearing bogu for at least 6 months where I plan to train, but has anyone tried these?

http://www.chibabogu.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=220

Someone else had mentioned in another thread that when you wear bogu that stands out from everyone else's, you're kinda begging for a severe beat down. ???

Its not a case of standing out as much as suitability.

They are designed for use with Bokken rather than shinai, and are used in kata. If you look at the hand portion of the glove, it is not as padded as regular kote.

The Kote you have linked too are for wrist/arm cutting, hence the extra padding. Regular kote are designed to protect the fingers and hands.

That said you will still get sore fingers/wrists every now and again from a strong body collision.

[dwez]

I'm attending my first class very soon, and am concerned about wrist and finger injuries, as I play music for a living.

I'm a graphic designer so if my hands/wrists/fingers get mashed then my living would also be in jeopardy, as I imagine would many other kendoka worldwide. As it stands we continue to practice regardless, either because the risk of injury isn't THAT significant or we are extremely stupid and gluttons for punishment.

Absolutely you can be injured doing kendo, it is afterall, a full contact martial art. However most dojo's operate as safely as they can so especially for beginners you should have no worries. See how it is after your first few practices, though you're highly unlikely to be hit for quite a few months.

[ghostdancer]

it should also be noted that it UNLIKELY but possible you might get a tap on the wrist, bearing in mind you and your beginners classmates will be under constant supervision (or should be) this should not happen

explain the situation to the sensei he/she might let you wear conventional Kote from the off


also dont worry about getting a slap for standing out,
that particular thread was all about somebody being foolish and thinking that looking like an advert for Nike trainers or a extra from StarWars would be a cool alternative to fitting in
see the linky http://www.satorido.com/images/bogu_red_5mm.jpg

"severe beatdowns" are not part of the standard teaching methods in any legitimate Dojo i have ever heard about ! (especially for beginners)

well only if you are supposed to know better anyway (joke)

let us know how you get on

[JSchmidt]

I'm attending my first class very soon, and am concerned about wrist and finger injuries, as I play music for a living. I wouldn't be wearing bogu for at least 6 months where I plan to train, but has anyone tried these?

http://www.chibabogu.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=220

Someone else had mentioned in another thread that when you wear bogu that stands out from everyone else's, you're kinda begging for a severe beat down. ???

As mentioned, those kote are for Ona-ha-itto-ryu and not for kendo.

We have a violinist in our dojo and he had a pair of custom kote made, with extra thick padding. He was warned that these would hamper the movement of his wrist (and hence his kendo). Talk to your teacher about it first. There is always a (small) risk for getting finger/wrist injuries.

Dwez, I think it's quite different. We can put up with some discomfort (or work slower, etc) when working on a computer, but musicians have to perform at a very different level and bruising, etc can hamper their ability to do so.

[braxtonhicks]

Dwez, I think it's quite different. We can put up with some discomfort (or work slower, etc) when working on a computer, but musicians have to perform at a very different level and bruising, etc can hamper their ability to do so.


Amen to that. Some of the music I have to play is so technically challenging that it's really hard even with two full functioning hands! When you're typing or designing, you can always hit delete or undo. Not so with live performance. Still, I think the benefits of doing this will probably outweigh the slight chance of injury. Performing music at a high level takes lots of focus and centre, and I think Kendo could only help me in this regard.

Thanks for all your comments guys!

[dwez]

Dwez, I think it's quite different. We can put up with some discomfort (or work slower, etc) when working on a computer, but musicians have to perform at a very different level and bruising, etc can hamper their ability to do so.

Big Wusses, I can't imagine Slipknot ever complaining about a tap on the wrist and I believe they are musicians of the highest order. :smiley:

No, fair point, my keyboard and mouse action is getting progressively slower but I still find myself mentally trying to 'undo' real-life tasks like painting and decorating, how I would achieve that I'm not sure but mentally it happens.

[braxtonhicks]

Big Wusses, I can't imagine Slipknot ever complaining about a tap on the wrist and I believe they are musicians of the highest order. :smiley:

No, fair point, my keyboard and mouse action is getting progressively slower but I still find myself mentally trying to 'undo' real-life tasks like painting and decorating, how I would achieve that I'm not sure but mentally it happens.

Slipknot? I thought we were talking about musicians! :laugh:

No seriously, I play saxophones, flute, and clarinet, for jazz, rock (yes rock on flute and clarinet...I play with a production company that did a note for note show of every Beatles song ever recorded...it was 13 hours long) funk, latin-caribbean stuff and also pit orchestra stuff for musical theatre.

I guess I'll just see how it goes! Thanks for everyone's time.