Hard Brittle Shinais

[Dave Dickey]

The last few shinais I have ordered have extra hard and thick bamboo compared to one I have had for years. they also tend to splinter faster than some others.

Has anyone else experienced this? If so....where can I get ones that are not so hard and brittle?

Thanks

[ShinKenshi]

Where did your get yours from? Do you properly maintain them? What exactly are you doing with them? For some tips on shinai maintenance, watch this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJNAluiOKY). And just out of pure curiosity, what martial arts experience do you have? The reason why I ask is because you list none in your profile.

[JSchmidt]

Read this first (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=293705&postcount=1) before answering.

[Kenzan]

Insane in your face fighting!

LOL

:D

[ShinKenshi]

Read this first (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=293705&postcount=1) before answering.Woah, how'd I miss that! :confused2 I think now I shall refrain from making further comments on this thread.

[Dave Dickey]

Actually you can tell that the pieces are wider and thicker than some others and I am wondering if it because of which country they come from. A friend of mine gets them for me and I get a great deal. We use them for practice in our Western Martial Arts classes.

But I have noticed that the strings break quicker and the bamboo splinters easier because there is no give....

The one I still have from my early days of Kendo is much nicer and more flexible and I have been told it is because it is actually a Japanese one in stead of a Chinese one.....which would tend to make sense....

[Kenzan]

Actually you can tell that the pieces are wider and thicker than some others and I am wondering if it because of which country they come from. A friend of mine gets them for me and I get a great deal. We use them for practice in our Western Martial Arts classes.


You do realize that the design of a Shinai is meant to mimic a certain style of sword and cutting technique? I'm wondering if you are not doing yourself a training disservice in using a Shinai for European style practice.
Right tool for the right job, that sort of thing.



But I have noticed that the strings break quicker and the bamboo splinters easier because there is no give....


This may have to do more with proper maintenance that the material itself.



The one I still have from my early days of Kendo is much nicer and more flexible and I have been told it is because it is actually a Japanese one in stead of a Chinese one.....which would tend to make sense....

Why does it make sense to you?

[tango]

Dave,

could just be a bad batch... it's hard to say for sure what the problem might be unless you knew the supplier.
i've had shinai from several different suppliers.. .some japanese, some korean, some chinese.. they all kinda vary (though not too terribly much) in thickness..

if they dry out (very possible), they can splinter fairly easily..

[Dave Dickey]

Thanks Tango. Yea they do seem dry right out of the box.....

Any suggestions on where to get some good ones?

[tango]

if you've got a local martial arts store that supplies them, obviously you could stop in there and check them out personally...
otherwise, eguchi, e-bogu, e-mudo (which I think is in NJ) are three suppliers right off the top of my head that are pretty reliable.

aside from that, don't know if a dried out shinai can be "restored" with shinai oil or not... i've never tried it. at some point, i guess you get to a point of diminishing returns..
maybe some kind soul around here could comment on that...

[JoDuncan]

Pop the staves in a bath of linseed oil (or whatever), wipe them clean, leave for a while... see if they are still gash.

You will need to oil your shinai although i have gotten away with oiling mine only once or twice in close to two years! I put my shinai success down to the fact that my technique is flawless.... :p

[ShinKenshi]

But I have noticed that the strings break quicker and the bamboo splinters easier because there is no give....Wait, what strings are you talking about? If you're referring to the red strings, those need to come off anyway because they're there just for packaging. If you mean the tsuru (the white string going from the tip to handle) then you're simply abusing the shinai and using it for things that it was never meant to do.

[tango]

Good point, David... didn't think about that on the strings topic...

[Dave Dickey]

I wish to thank those of you who have actually tried to help me with my questions. You are a breath of fresh air here......

[Newbie]

First rule of shinai maitenance - shinai are to be used for kendo only and treated with respect. Not "in your face fighting action" bollocks. That's for peanuts with a brain the size of a flea.

I'm gonna go look at Stuff On My Cat now. Always makes me feel better after dealings with.. people like that.

[Paikea]

Wait, what strings are you talking about? If you're referring to the red strings, those need to come off anyway because they're there just for packaging. If you mean the tsuru (the white string going from the tip to handle) then you're simply abusing the shinai and using it for things that it was never meant to do.The man runs the "Live Steel Fight Academy"...'nuff said. Neil has already shut down two or three spam threads he's tried to start.

[Kagerou]

I put my shinai success down to the fact that my technique is flawless.... :p

cough sputter You sure about that? Maybe you're just not hitting people hard enough :cheeky:

[Dave Dickey]

I just love how people feel free enough on here to belittle and insult someone without ever asking what they are really about. Especially since I have never insulted or belittled anyone on this forum. I certainly hope that it is not representative of the maturity and respect level of the majority of other members here......

[Hank]

I just love how people feel free enough on here to belittle and insult someone without ever asking what they are really about. Especially since I have never insulted or belittled anyone on this forum. I certainly hope that it is not representative of the maturity and respect level of the majority of other members here......Well, this is a kendo forum. What you're doing is not kendo. It's like joining a roofing forum and asking questions about why a certain batch of hammers you bought shatter more easily than others in your throw-hammers-at-a-wall for-profit competition. It's just not right. One should expect ridicule.

[JoDuncan]

David there is a lot of this in MA, not just kendo. We like our art you see, and when someone comes along who wants to use it for entertainments etc it generally doesn't make for a pleasant conversation.

Kendo isn't really a sport (it is budo) and what you (appear to) have had in mind was more a kin to stick fighting which we kendoka don't train for. Have you contacted people like the dog brothers (they run stick fighting competitions) and maybe some practitioners of kali / eskrima may be interested?

Kagerou: Nope, it's definitely due to my awesomeness.... :p

[turboyoshi]

It's just not right. One should expect ridicule.

I disagree. You should be able to point out a person's mistakes without being a jerk about it. You could say something like:

Dave,
You're not using shinai in the way they were designed for, therefore, you should expect them to break and shatter more often. Proper shinai maintenance may prolong their life but you still won't get the durability kendoka can generally expect from their equipment. The solution is to find or design better equipment for your needs, or to budget a larger amount for spare supplies.

By ridiculing others, you show the quality of your own spirit. I understand you don't like the way others may exploit the arts for personal or financial gain. I don't like it either. That's human nature and it's not going to go away. The best way to fight back is with education and making yourself an example worth following.

If you push people away with your anger, you lose the opportunity to educate them.

regards,
sean

[Jiyoui]

I don't know
I've always found people on this forum to be especially rude to people sometimes. Granted it may be for the right reason but sometimes the rudeness is still quite uncalled for even though it might be justified.
One can always blame it on the internet mentality where the idea is that a person can simply hide behind their computer and say things without worrying about retribution, but that's just internet culture all together.
Without diving too much into this, I shall change the topic to the concern at hand.

As said before Dave, shinai's are meant to be used for kendo where strikes aren't as violent sometimes as what you may be using them for. There are often instances in kendo where a kendoka may be hitting improperly thus causing the shinai fail on them, such as splintering etc.
or
a bad batch
or
unreliable source from which you obtained them.

I've always found that my shinais can take quite a beating from the crap I put them through.

I bought mine from e-bogu and kendosho.com(based in korea)

[Hank]

I disagree. You should be able to point out a person's mistakes without being a jerk about it. You could say something like:[snip]I said one should expect ridicule. Walk into a serious hardware store and ask for the best hammer for throwing at a wall (for the throwing-hammers-at-a-wall competition) and I bet half the time you get laughed out of the store. Whether it's deserved or not is debatable.

[Jiyoui]

I said one should expect ridicule. Walk into a serious hardware store and ask for the best hammer for throwing at a wall (for the throwing-hammers-at-a-wall competition) and I bet half the time you get laughed out of the store. Whether it's deserved or not is debatable.

I think there's a distinct difference between a store and a forum though.
I'm pretty sure that hardware store would be happy with a sale and could care less about what the heck they do with the hammer.

In this case, most people fine this to be an insult in the art that they practice thus the hostility.

[Hank]

I think there's a distinct difference between a store and a forum though.
I'm pretty sure that hardware store would be happy with a sale and could care less about what the heck they do with the hammer.

In this case, most people fine this to be an insult in the art that they practice thus the hostility.Hmm, many carpenters, roofers, etc (artisans in general) have a fondness and respect for their tools and would also be insulted by any misuse of them. But, hey, the point is, he is not doing kendo in any form, and in fact may be doing what many people consider "anti-kendo". So, he should expect ridicule.

[JoDuncan]

I don't know
I've always found people on this forum to be especially rude to people sometimes. Granted it may be for the right reason but sometimes the rudeness is still quite uncalled for even though it might be justified.



with that I fully agree.

...apart from when it is funny. :p

[Jiyoui]

Hmm, many carpenters, roofers, etc (artisans in general) have a fondness and respect for their tools and would also be insulted by any misuse of them. But, hey, the point is, he is not doing kendo in any form, and in fact may be doing what many people consider "anti-kendo". So, he should expect ridicule.

touche :smoker:

[tango]

the original poster started off his KW career with a... well, a not-so-great thread.... for which ridicule seems to be fairly par for the course..

however, this thread has nothing to do with that, and so I don't see why his question can't be simply addressed without some kind of bashing.

my 2 cents.

edit to add: had he just created another account with a different email and then posed his question under a new identity, i doubt he would be getting this treatment.

[Dave Dickey]

My questions here about shinai quality was just about that...shinai quality. When we do use the shinais for practice, they take no more abuse then they would against another shinai, a men or kote. But you would not know that because nobody asked.

Having practiced Kendo years ago, I am fully aware of its limits. As far as expecting Japanese shinais to be of better quality, it has been my experience over the years that they were, plain and simple. The Japanese one that I have was a gift from my teacher and has lasted for 20 years.

Just because I briefly talked of something in another post ( my mistake ) does not mean I treat my weapons any different than anyone else. I never said I did. Everyone here assumed I did without ever asking.

I am curious as to how many of you that ridicule and insult me (and somehow justify it) would be congratulated on your behaviour by your sensei in the dojo. How quick you were to judge without all of the facts.

[Jiyoui]

A good first impression is important in a relationship.
In a community so dedicated to it's art, it's painful to have people and come destroy it (I'm not saying that you are), but with the commercialization of martial art no one can be too sure of anything now a days.

I for one would be glad to know more about you if you are willing to share with us.
--
You aren't the first and surly won't be the last.
My apologizes to your initial experiences here.

[Kenzan]

Having practiced Kendo years ago, I am fully aware of its limits.


Could you possibly elaborate on what you mean by, it's "limits?"
You studied Kendo? Marvelous!
May we ask which Dojo and Sensei?



As far as expecting Japanese shinais to be of better quality, it has been my experience over the years that they were, plain and simple.


Better quality in terms of.......?



Just because I briefly talked of something in another post ( my mistake ) does not mean I treat my weapons any different than anyone else. I never said I did. Everyone here assumed I did without ever asking.


In all fairness, I would argue that having one of your first posts linking to "In your face" Live Steel Competitions website under construction doesn't exactly scream credulity in any sword forum?



How quick you were to judge without all of the facts.

Then I present you with the task of presenting some, sir.

[Draglon]

I said one should expect ridicule. Walk into a serious hardware store and ask for the best hammer for throwing at a wall (for the throwing-hammers-at-a-wall competition) and I bet half the time you get laughed out of the store. Whether it's deserved or not is debatable.

They actually have those types of competitions? :eek: To Hell with Kendo, where can I sign up for this!

[Kagerou]

Kagerou: Nope, it's definitely due to my awesomeness.... :p

Uh huh...sure buddy :wink: Let's see your U-tube video of you doing kirikaeshi with a tree and we'll see how "flawless" your technique is. :cheeky:

[dwez]

...apart from when it is funny. :p

I for one feel that the forum is far less rude than it used to be, its far more 'fun'. It may be in part due to people tranferring rudeness to ridicule but I'd much prefer to be a laugher not a hater.

As has been observed most of our rep is coming from 'who wrote the funny' so making jokes at peoples questions is par for the course.

Coming from LARP to kendo I can't preach as to what Mr Dickey or any backyard ninjer chooses to do with bamboo. Quite rightly this thread remains in the shinai section not the flames [where his previous post resides]. Hard brittle shinai is a concern for all kendoka, not just those guys who want to thrash their mates.

I've read in quite a few posts about bogu that they are now structurally weaker than they were perhaps 10 years ago, so Mr Dickey may have a point, shinai's may be weaker. I've also read about Madake shinais and Japanese Madake in particular being superior so that could just be the simple answer he is after.

On the other hand the 'Made in China' thread could be the root of the same question, the first two responses had jokes in, no one accused them of being rude.

[JoDuncan]

Uh huh...sure buddy :wink: Let's see your U-tube video of you doing kirikaeshi with a tree and we'll see how "flawless" your technique is. :cheeky:

Am I being called out!?

If so then I formally point over your shoulder, "Look over there!"
....and run away...

:D

[Kagerou]

Am I being called out!?

If so then I formally point over your shoulder, "Look over there!"
....and run away...

:D

dang...caught by the ol' look over their waza. I bow to your superior skills oh great one :chinese: