Anger management

[Machismo111]

Im curious about all of your philosophies on anger. There seems to be a general stoicism required for Kendo, or at least practiced in it. Lately when I've been getting angry I think about it instead of hit things, like I used to. I still hit things, lol, I just think about it first. I suppose my question's this, since Buddhism is somewhat inlaid into Kendo, should one not get angry and just be peaceful and all that? I've been reading Hagakure lately and many of these stories are just rediculous. A kid steps on some guys foot, that guy gets all pissed off then 2 families commit seppuku. Is that all about honor, or just exaggerated to make a point?

I suppose you could say my honor was insulted today, and of course I got angry...but in my stage of thought before my stage of hitting things, I wondered how I could not be angry at it. I had been shamed and looked down upon by someone I thought was no better than I, seems unjust...Should I find a way to deal with that and just accept others insults, or should I be rightfully angry and attack the person verbally or otherwise? Thanks =)

[frederico]

insults/verbal attacks- if some one insults you, generally speaking.. what is he doing?.. saying nonesense.. if the insult is so ridicule no one will take it as a real thing, just some dumb person with his dumb talking, i dont know why you should be offended if someone says something offensive about you that is compleatly out of realitty. it just doesnt offend me.. crazy people.
in the other hand.. if he says something that really puts you honnor at risk, what you can do better than hit him.. is justify yourself verbally and make sure to everyone he is just a dumb person that doesnt know what he is talking about(and everyone will see his comments like that for a long time).. in a very mature way.. no unecessarly offending him(that will take you to a lower level).. but most insults are just nonsense anyway..

this is the way i think.. everyone can talk.. and say whatever they want, that doesnt make them right. and if you take him seriously he is having power(unless you can tell him to commit seppuku).

going medieval on him(orientally or ocidentally) is not even legal anymore, control you emotions, be superior to him. if you cant.. if you are morally challenged.. then you also dont have honor.. and going medieval on him just acentuates that.

my 2 bad english cents.

[kendomushi]

If the insult/slight or whatever was private, forget it.
If it was public, forget it.
Lashing out generally only plays into the hands and opinion of such a person in the first place. He will just use it to justify his opinion of you to others.
Your actions speak louder than his words. Be true to yourself and show through your actions that he is wrong. Even if he never thinks so, no one else will agree with or listen to him.

If you need to work out your frustrations, try a few hundred surubi with a heavy suburito.

[d3rdson]

In the spirit of making ourselves better today than yesterday, I try hard to not stray from the path to greatness (I hope!). But every now and then, still there are people who just love to stand in your way for no apparent reason other than probably their own amusement.

These negative beings are, included but not limited to, insult lashers. I usually put them into three category:
1. They don't know me, or don't know me well enough
2. They're wise guys
3. Kindergarten probably is too advance for them (and I'm being nice, here! :)

For number 1:
They're strangers to me. I'm a stranger to them. Their presence AND/OR remarks would mean insignificant or nothing altogether to my well being and self progress, and probably likewise. Why care? Next.

Number 2:
I think I know they don't know enough, but apparently, they try to mask their knowledge or lack thereof by saying something they don't really know, about myself. Between The Almighty, myself and them, who has the knowhow better? Instead of getting angry, I should pity them. Next.

Number 3:
I read somewhere that there are people who can't find China in a globe and think "tipping" is it's capitol. Before these people even finish insulting me, I already rest my case.

And as said before, please be VERY aware that so little things accounted for legal these days, so most of the time of course we should avoid physical confrontation, if possible.

Someone said (please forgive my bad, bad memory) that stupidity is something to be cautious about. ESPECIALLY in great numbers. Please bear in mind that mostly people don't want to have anything to do with you when they saw you surrounded by people who want to hurt you physically.

And as I had my share of street fights, things could be very messy. Please remember this when your better half tempting you to lash your own anger.

Peace, everyone.

[Machismo111]

If the insult/slight or whatever was private, forget it.
If it was public, forget it.
Lashing out generally only plays into the hands and opinion of such a person in the first place. He will just use it to justify his opinion of you to others.
Your actions speak louder than his words. Be true to yourself and show through your actions that he is wrong. Even if he never thinks so, no one else will agree with or listen to him.

If you need to work out your frustrations, try a few hundred surubi with a heavy suburito.

The thing I can't stand about just doing nothing when someone insults me is that it makes me look, or at least feel like, Im weak. If someone walks around all the time getting picked on and made fun of and they dont do anything about it, they will definately not be respected. And it's definately not good for their self esteem. How can someone build the confidence it takes to forget an insult when they have none to begin with?

[aru-ma]

The thing I can't stand about just doing nothing when someone insults me is that it makes me look, or at least feel like, Im weak. If someone walks around all the time getting picked on and made fun of and they dont do anything about it, they will definately not be respected. And it's definately not good for their self esteem. How can someone build the confidence it takes to forget an insult when they have none to begin with?

when you're insulted ofcourse you're not going to keep on taking it in, the difficult thing is how and when to react, like you said you will be less respected if you constantly take in insults, there are some insults that you can ignore and there are those that you have to throw back.

All this talk about being calm and patient all the time when someone insult/defame/make fun/berate you isn't doing me any good.

[doubissu]

Lately when I've been getting angry I think about it instead of hit things, like I used to. I still hit things, lol, I just think about it first.

You're not saying if you've been angry during a Kendo practice. If that's the case than you need to talk things over asap with whoever made you feel that way, and with your sempai/instructor to make sure you interpret things correctly and it never happens again. Recently, there's been at least one occasion when anger was openly displayed at our dojo; every time it happens it involves the same individual. That's completely unacceptable and has to be dealt with. It's often due to bad communication (duh).

Eddy

[swrdply400mrela]

The thing I can't stand about just doing nothing when someone insults me is that it makes me look, or at least feel like, Im weak. If someone walks around all the time getting picked on and made fun of and they dont do anything about it, they will definately not be respected. And it's definately not good for their self esteem. How can someone build the confidence it takes to forget an insult when they have none to begin with?

If you do feel weak from their insults, you've pretty much let them succeed. Pick your own battles, but not all of them. Just try to keep your ego in check. The easiest way is to come back with something and a smile.

[tyler]

i agree with the thrust of what people have been writing so far. Also you can think of it in kendo terms. You mentioned buddhism, and I was reminded of a text written by that famous zen guy, the monk Takuan, called (depending on how its translated) 'the unfettered mind'.
In it he talks about how when fighting someone with a sword, your concentration needs to be total. If you were to start paying attention to one certain thing, such as the possible outcome of the fight, or your stance, or your opponents stance, whatever, then you mind becomes distracted or fixed, and can't react immeadiatly to outside circumbstaces such as an attack. If you become angry in the course of a fight or even just in keiko, you get flustered and your concentration wavers. Better to keep calm because you stand a better chance of reacting appropriately.
Don't worry about what some guy says about you. As everyone's been saying so far, people put others down in an ill conceived effort to get up because they feel down themselves. Understand it as that; its not a reflection of your honor, you don't even need to respond. If you really can see it for what it is, then such comments are water off a ducks back, and others watching will see that you could care less. Don't get flustered.

[tyler]

whups i re-read some earlier posts and some people aren't down with not responding for various reasons. I'd say, if you feel as if you should react, then you should. Otherwise you'll feel weaker or wish you had etc.. I think the trick is to understand insults in such a way that you don't even feel that you need to respond. Insults are the mark of low self-asteem, of someone who doesn't feel very good about themselves and is trying to hurt others to make up for it. What looks like bravado and confidence is often the opposite; its a coping mechanism. Of course its easier said than done and we all have difficulty with being insulted, but i try to remind myself why someone would insult me. In a way i feel sorry for them. Anyway, my post is way too long for 2cents so i'll can it now.

[Machismo111]

You're not saying if you've been angry during a Kendo practice.

No, no. As a matter of fact I have my first Kendo lesson today ^_^. This is just in general, more often with video games though. Many of you seem to believe there is a line between serious insults and general insults. While all are insulting, I understand what you mean. Its more the serious insults I would be talking about. How do you throw back that sort of dire insult? Being witty is very nice, but unfortunately Im not witty =X. I tend to accept those sorts of insults for a while then get snap and get very angry. This is a bad thing, I know. Its what leads to postal workers climbing clock towers with uzis :| I have several ways I try to vent my frustrations, but that only seems to work for a while, and Im still grumpy afterwords. Is it just a matter of wisdom that one can deal with insults?

Thank you all for your replies, they have been very interesting to read so far! =)

[Andoy]

Well here's something i recall....does anyone remember the story of Musashi vs. the Yoshioka family? Well, despite beating the head students, Musashi was still mocked and insulted but never let his emotions get the best of him. The point is to just keep your composure no matter how bad things get...only you can determine what kind of person you are and no one else.

[Haggis]

This thread reminds me of the story of Boduken I read awhile ago.

Bokuden was crossing a lake in a rowboat with a group of people. In the boat with them was a tough*looking and arrogant samurai who boasted about how good he was with a sword.

"I am the greatest swordsman," this strong warrior claimed. "nobody can beat me." The passengers eagerly listened to this braggart's endless stories about winning many fights. But Bokuden took no notice and was dozing as if nothing were going on around him. This made the samurai very angry. He came up to Bokuden, shook him and said: "Hey, aren't you listening? Come on! You also carry a pair of swords. Why aren't you joining in on the conversation?"

This made the warrior angrier. "What is your school then?" he asked.

"Mine is known as the school of 'no sword,"' Bokuden responded calmly.

"Why, then, do you carry a sword?" cried the samurai. "To protect myself from wild animals, not to hurt people," Bokuden said.

The braggart became very frustrated and shouted, "Do you really mean that you can fight with no sword? Can you fight me with no sword?"

"Why not?" answered Bokuden calmly. The warrior called out to the boatman to row to the nearest island. Bokuden suggested it would be better to go to the island farthest away because the nearest island had people who might be attracted to the fight and might get hurt. The samurai agreed. The boat headed for the island farther away.

As soon as they came near enough, the samurai jumped off the boat and drew his sword for combat. Bokuden took off his swords and handed them to the boatman. He was about to leave the boat to follow the samurai onto the island when Bokuden suddenly took the long oar from the boatman and, pushing it against the land, gave a hard backstroke to the boat. The boat moved away from the island and out to the sea, leaving the enraged samurai standing on the shore in combat position.

When the boat was safely away from the island so the warrior could not follow, Bokuden said, smiling, "This is my school of 'no sword'."

[Tachi]

Haggis, I think Bruce Lee must have borrowed that story. I think it plays out pretty cool in Enter the Dragon!

[Machismo111]

Haggis, I think Bruce Lee must have borrowed that story. I think it plays out pretty cool in Enter the Dragon!

Exactly what I was going to say! A good story though, and a good lesson =). Always let your opponent get off the boat first!

[kendomushi]

The thing I can't stand about just doing nothing when someone insults me is that it makes me look, or at least feel like, Im weak. If someone walks around all the time getting picked on and made fun of and they dont do anything about it, they will definately not be respected. And it's definately not good for their self esteem. How can someone build the confidence it takes to forget an insult when they have none to begin with?

Sorry if I'm wrong here, but you seem to think that confidence comes from outside you. That it comes from seeing others react to your actions. Nothing could be farther from the truth. That kind of confidence is little more than pride and bravado. Confidence comes from internalization, soul searching, honest evaluation of your own strengths and weaknesses.

I do not suggest you do nothing about being picked on. I suggest you persevere and show through your own actions that you are better than this person claims. Striking back at an insult does not earn any respect either from others of from the self. Beating down the insulter in some way leads to pride, not respect.

No one can give you self esteem. No one can give you confidence. No one gives respect without cause.

Search yourself and find out who you really are. Learn and be comfortable with your own abilities, skills, failings, and limits. Build on the good, work on mitigating, eliminating, or compensating for the bad. Reflect and review on what you do. When you see that over time you are improving, this will help give you self esteem. Knowing that you are better today than last month or last year and you can continue to improve in various ways will give you confidence. Seeing your struggle, your calm, your successes and failures, your patience with yourself and others will earn you the respect of others.

[Fantasia]

When I get insulted I usually just give the person my "And you think that was funny?" look and then make eye contact with several other people nearby who may have heard the remark.

The look is basically a slight smirk with one eyebrow partially raised. Very cool, very calm, with slow and deliberate movements.

It points out immediately to the person how foolish they are and how alone they are in their opinion.

[Eldritch Knight]

Well, the ancient Japanese way to deal with an insult is either by killing the person outright, or by repaying it at a later opportunity. They say "revenge is a dish best served cold" - I would be willing to bet that a Japanese invented a phrase similar to that. Don't be insulted by it (or don't appear to be) because at some point, you will be able to return it with far better clarity.

However, the first point (learned from kendo) is that one should not become angry to begin with. Since you are yourself, you will always be safe within the haven of your mind, and in there, nothing can affect you. The goal of most Oriental arts (all that I've seen, at least) is to make a person one with themselves (and that impenetrable haven) and thus simultaneously oblivious to and in tune with anything external. Its hard to explain in much detail, since its so conceptual and philosophical, but this is the general idea

[Old Warrior]

Insults, another topic about which I have a certain expertise. After 30 years of practicing law I have developed my own methodology for dealing with insults. My Rules are:

Rule 1 - never respond in kind and never accelerate the confrontation.

Rule 2 - ask the speaker if that was his/her idea of appropriate and gentle-personly behavior.

Rule 3 - give a little smile and say "I'm sorry you feel that way".

Rule 4 - exit silently, never taking your peripheral vision off the insulter.

File away the incident in your mind and wait for the day when you will have the opportunity to retaliate in multiples of effect. And then, NEVER, acknowledge that you remembered the initial event. In my line of work I often get to see the same jerks again and again. They never seem to comprehend why I work so hard to bury them; while never showing my anger or giving a hint of what is really motivating me.

[Nishi]

Well i have a simple approach, and an even simpler philosophy...

- First i believe anger is what results when the individual has no/or is inable to create any other options.

- Second i feel that insults are related to the individuals own insecurities (as someone mentioned)

It is best to leave things alone...its a difficult concept to learn, but i think any one serious about kendo should be taking it literally...and that is an immovable mind. Granted you are not born with this, but through kendo we should be striving to live this way...for every zen story you here about a still mind, the concept is -dont allow issues outside you to have adverse effects within you- If you make no efforts to disregard issues others have with themselves, you become like them...your mind is effected by everything...be selective what you expose it to, because it will eventually become its enviroment. Leave petty differences and insults to those who dont understand, and worry about bettering yourself for tommorow.

[moetl]

hello there
im a new poster

i would like to say the follwing concerning this topic:
Machismo111, have you ever watched WHO was insulted by somebody? there are of course exceptions, but what i noticed often was that people who were insulted were not balanced. i know this sounds somewhat strange but theres no better way i could express my feelings about that.

being balanced means that youre not in conflic with you or your environment. i think this links back to buddhism and to the advices "staying calm..". i think people can somehow feel to a certain extend (eg: through body language) how the mental situation of a person is. they act (or react?) because of your apperance.

i know very well how you feel, because i also get very, very angry if someone insults me.

but i have an advice for you (after all..): you can only get angry, because you have the engergy to get angry. and the more energy you have, the angrier you can get. so, my answer to this problem is: get rid of your unused energy!
i do not know what is the best way for you to get rid of your energy but mine was (and is) sports (in particular tae kwon do and kendo)!!!

since you stared kendo (as i read in your post) i hope you'll get rid of your energies soon and be therefore better balanced!

ciao, mötl

[tanueirin]

Since we're on the topic of mushin, this reminds me of a character from a Judge Dee novel (by Robert Van Gulik, if anyone cares) - a master swordsman who has become a vagrant monk in his old age. This scene occurs after the judge thanks him for saving him from a band of robbers:

"Master Gourd threw the sword into a corner. 'I hate weapons.'

'But you handle them with amazing skill! You met your opponent's thrusts so accurately, it seemed as if the points of your swords were joined by an invisible chain!'

'I told you I am only an empty shell,' the old man said testily. 'Being empty, my opponent's fullness flows automatically over into me. I become him, so I do exactly as he does. Fencing with me is like fencing with your own reflection in a mirror. And is just as pointless.' "

What a guy! :cool:

[Stan]

There is a saying in french, "La pluie de vos insultes n'atteint point le parapluie de mon indifference." Translation: "The rain of your insults does not taint the umbrella of my indifference." I love this little saying. Just think of this when somebody is bugging you and smile. They will wonder what you are up to.

Stan

[Koushinkuma]

One concept that I find useful in dealing with insults comes from kendo. That of openings (suki). Also the notion that everyone is your teacher.

Growth comes from dealing with an insulting person in a manner which does not make you feel less. However, sometimes what we perceive as an insult is actually a profound observation of the way we conduct ourselves. We all hate criticism, but sometimes it helps to step outside of ourselves and see us the way others do.

If you have acted stupidly or without regard for others the person is, in a sense, doing you a favor by insulting you. You may learn something if you can acknowledge that it makes you angry, but not act on this anger, but rather internalize what they have said, overcome your ego, and try to become a better person. If after this process you feel that the insult was justified, you can just say, thank you for pointing that out, I wasn't aware of that.

However, if the insult was unjustified or just plain malicious, I have often found that principal of "no resistance" works very well as it gives the person nothing to amplify in their counter-response. That is, if someone criticizes something about you, you simply admit to whatever they are accusing you of, no matter how ludicrous, and then add to it. This will sometimes inject humor into the situation to and therefore diffuse it; sometimes you can playfully turn it on the other person if you're clever. "Jack, you're so ugly your momma wouldn't admit you're her kid." "Yeah I know, your sister told me last night."
Granted it is hard to know what advice to give here since you do not specify what the "insult" was. But most people usually appreciate a little cleverness, plus it shows you are not going to just stand there and take it. I've found that the most hostile person can be turned with a little understanding and slight audaciousness and clever wit. Under no circumstances do I meet hostility with "genuine" anger; this is when you do something you will regret later. Apparent, controlled anger is something different though and can be useful to call someone's bluff; a lot of "bullies" are not used to people standing up to them.