Some more general Kendo questions ^_^;

[Raindrop]

Sorry if I keep asking questions, I thought I'd put them all here in one topic to make it easier... ^_^;

I've had 5 lessons now and so far we only used the sliding step to move forward and when striking (is this "okuriashi"? ; I mean the right food first and swing shinai back and strike when you pull close your left foot). So at the last practice we have now also learned to strike at the same time as your right foot reaches the floor (together with kiai, what is this called again, those 3 at once?).

I have trouble with this one. Granted I've only tried it for 1 lesson, but I find it hard in many aspects. I find it hard when I swing my shinai back, do I swing it back first and then start to step forward fast with my right food and strike? Or do I swing my shinai back while I step forward and then also strike (this means I'd have to be quick).

Another problem is how to plant my foot down flat, you know, so I don't hurt my heel ^_^; I guess I have to keep practicing to get better, I was just wondering if there are any tips as to how to learn this better. When I see my sempais do it, I see how it should look, and in my head I'm thinking what my body needs to do, however I can't really get it right. I try to focus on synchronizing everything (strike, step, kiai) but sometimes I strike first and other times my right foot goes first. Any advice? ^_^; It looks to me a bit as if the body leans a bit forward and when it gets to the point you'd fall over then the right foot plants down and the left quickly follows and then you hopple on... sorry for the weird description but that's what it looks like to me ^_^

so that is one question, about that step/striking thing.

Another question is for my left hand grip. I guess it's because my muscles aren't trained yet but I find it hard to do 100 or more single-left-handed men strikes without loosing grip. The shinai just twists around and my grip turns all wrong and crappy after a while. (I cramp up my thumb and index finger) I try really hard to hold on but at one point I'm scared the shinai is just gonna fall out of my hand or I'm gonna hit wrong and hurt someone. Is there a way I can train this, like grip training or something? I have read somewhere that the "death grip" is also not so good, so I don't want to give myself RSI doing something stupid. I have a power ball rotting away somewhere, are those of any use?

Oh and my last question is somewhat strange, I dunno if I should ask this... Is it common for students to not inquire their senseis dan grade? I was told that we're not asking what grade our sensei is because it's considered "not done" and really rude. I appreciate the reason behind it a lot, I agree with it because it shouldn't matter what grade he is but how his kendo is and what he teaches. However here and on some other website people all post their senseis rank etc (that's why I asked a sempai of mine who then politely told me I shouldn't ask... :redface: I was so embaressed... ) and I'm wondering if this unwritten policy is common or if anyone else has this in their dojo?

So yeah, those are my questions at the moment. Sorry if I keep asking all this stuff, I just always think asking doesn't hurt and how can I learn without asking, right? ^_^

[garyquinn1704]

Ask your sensei/senpai (haha always wanted to get in first with that)

I always try to never leave a practice without asking a question.

I've heard of sensei who force you to ask questions at the end. Either way, try yourself to teach a friend kendo footwork over the phone then pop round to his house to examine the next day. You'll see why everyone tells you to ask sensei/senpai.

I'm about your level and I can't do 100 single-handed men, that kind of hand strength is unnatural unless you're pro golfer/bricklayer/joiner/climber. I guess it'll come. Just wish it'd come sooner though. Check out www.powerballs.com absolutely priceless for the fledgling kendoka

[Raindrop]

Thank you, I know I should ask them but it's kinda hard because once they dismiss us noobs they keep on training for at least anoyther hour and I can't stay till after that because I gotta get home to my family ^_^;

I ask as much as I can before the beginning of the lessons but not many sempais arrive that early because it's us noobs training, so they join in later. There's really not much room for me to ask, that's why I keep posting here to fill my Kendo knowledge hunger ;)

[garyquinn1704]

In that case I'd recommend moving to Glasgow and getting a nice tenement flat. 12foot ceiling and wooden floors. All the home practice you want.

If you like, you can rent my bathtub for £50 per week. I've spent many an hour sleeping in it and it's very comfortable.

[PhilMcLaughlin]

foot work is hard for the first 10 years or so,, after that it gets even harder ;-)

Its something we all struggle with - dont get down about it - you have a long time to study it

in general to make fumi komi ashi (footwork) with ki ken tai ichi (spirit sword body as one) the hands / arms have to move about twice as fast as the feet move, this is hard to get coordinated and youll probably take about a years worth of practise to achieve it reliably. have a bit of patience and faith in your instructors

to practise footwork at home, stand in posture, put your weight on your left foot/leg and step forward in a lunge motion about 50 cm (your lower leg should be as close to vertical as you can get it)

be careful to place the whole foot flat (think of slapping the floor with your foot the way you might slap a table with the flat of your hand), Stop and get stable

then bring the back foot up sharply to regain standing posture. Then make the whole movement without stopping & correct your posture each time

practise 5 or 10 at a time - dont go mad and do loads cos if youre doing it wrong you will program in the wrong movements - get your sempais to check the motion regulalrly

Also with beginners i reccomend they practise moving round the house barefoot using okuri ashi with the weight 50:50 on the balls of the feet (most dont, cant think why not ;-)

However - make sure you stretch a lot if you do this

Using a balance board will help strengthen the lower leg & feet muscles

Left grip is tricky

hold your bokuto, then pick up your shinai - your left hand should be in exactly the same alignment

when you grip the shinai use the 3 fingers with the little finger at the end of the shinai - hold tight with these fingers & loosely with thumb and index finger

A sore thumb is a good indication of wrong grip, probably the base of the thumb is over the tsuka taking the weight - this isnt right

there are loads of ways to teach this - here's a useful tip i picked up

shold your shinai vertically in front of you with your hands in 'blade' and thumb pointing forwards & parallel (so you are gripping the shinai with the web between finger & thumb)

grip the shinai with the three fingers as above & keep the index finger & thumb pointing forwards

curl the index finger over to touch the tip of the thumb (dont change thumb position)

that should be about right

in any case when you cut - keep your thumb pointing at the opponent & this willhelp correct your position

alternatively ask your sensei ;-)

keep at it !

[Raindrop]

Thank you, Phil, you explained it very well cause I understood it all ^_^ !

It's much more clear to me now. And good to hear it's gonna take a while. I guess I'm used to picking things up really fast and then I worry if something doesn't go perfect right away. Thank you! I'll do my best!

[neko]

does no one else think it strange that raindrop is not to ask sensei his/her rank? no one's rank is finished. and if anyone should be forthright with their rank, it should be a sensei.

also, i find 100 left handed suburi too much for a beginner. at best their form is going to suck. remember quality not quantity. at worse, they are going to hurt themselves. this is just my opinion.

[Raindrop]

Well it was 5x twenty but yeah it was quite a lot. I'm used to drills though from karate so it's alright, I just don't want to hurt anyone else by letting go of my shinai ^_^;

About the rank thing, I was told by my sempai that it's simply not done because it comes across as rude and as if all you care about is rank. At my dojo they have the policy you come to do kendo with your fellow kenshi and you do your own kendo and it should not matter what rank someone else is. No worries I'm in a good dojo, several people here and elsewhere have told me my sensei is one of the best in the country :D I was told the higher sempais who are also his friends know his rank but they keep it a secret because that's not what it should be about. I kind of understand why this is, I was just wondering if there were other dojos where it was like that because I've seen so many people here talk about their senseis grade and that's also why I didn't think anything of it when I asked my sempai about it. (Good thing I didn't ask my sensei directly... oh boy that would have been terribble ^_^; )

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's very early days yet, we don't even teach our beginners fumikomi-ashi that early on. The only advice I have for you is that right now, your swing is going to be very slow so the timing you use in suburi (up with the right foot, down with the left) will be different from attacking men with fumikomi. You need to be patient with your feet, they are much faster than your swing now. Don't step forward until your swing is on it's way forward again, a rule of thumb I give my beginners is to step when they see their left hand come back to eye level.

[Raindrop]

Thank you, Neil, that makes a lot of sense! I will try that as soon as I can put weight on my left foot again (nice big open blister there again, whee ^_^; )

Thanks for all the help guys, it does really explain alot! :)

[ReKru]

I was told the higher sempais who are also his friends know his rank but they keep it a secret because that's not what it should be about.

S. Sensei is (as far as I know) rokudan (now your sempai will come and kill me!! :emb: ), but I think his kendo experience probably 'exceeds' his rank.

[Raindrop]

S. Sensei is (as far as I know) rokudan (now your sempai will come and kill me!! :emb: ), but I think his kendo experience probably 'exceeds' his rank.


oh no, now you destroyed the magic!!! xP ;D And yes, from the little bit I have seen of Kendo around the world and have read here or in books, his knowledge of Kendo is very, very huge. The way he teaches is simply awesome. ^_^ So that's why I understand that rank is completely besides the point, in the end, it means nothing. (for the rank-slamming I got shotokan, one more year and I can take my Karate shodan exam... wheee! lol)

[neko]

Well it was 5x twenty but yeah it was quite a lot. I'm used to drills though from karate so it's alright, I just don't want to hurt anyone else by letting go of my shinai ^_^;

choke up on the tsuka. :)




About the rank thing, I was told by my sempai that it's simply not done because it comes across as rude and as if all you care about is rank. At my dojo they have the policy you come to do kendo with your fellow kenshi and you do your own kendo and it should not matter what rank someone else is. No worries I'm in a good dojo, several people here and elsewhere have told me my sensei is one of the best in the country :D I was told the higher sempais who are also his friends know his rank but they keep it a secret because that's not what it should be about. I kind of understand why this is, I was just wondering if there were other dojos where it was like that because I've seen so many people here talk about their senseis grade and that's also why I didn't think anything of it when I asked my sempai about it. (Good thing I didn't ask my sensei directly... oh boy that would have been terribble ^_^; )

i agree also that kendo is not about rank. just like it is not about winning tournaments. but you make it sound like it would be an unforgivable sin or worse yet, an embarrassment. :emb: would it have been so bad if you had asked him? wouldn't it have been better to learn the lesson straight from him? i do not mean to question him, it is admirable his stance on the matter, but i have hard time understanding the consequences. not to mention why he wouldn't welcome the questions. it doesn't mean he has to answer.

[Raindrop]

Ah I don't know, all I know is how my sempai reacted when I asked because they had actually asked the sensei themselves when they were new and that's how they found out. I think it's also just because it's kinda rude for a noobie to ask this, you know, first off. If I'd asked later it probably would have been alright. I'm always overdoing it with the ettiquette and the politeness so maybe I'm making more of it than it is. It's the way I was raised ^_^

Oh and what do you mean by "choke up on the tsuka"? I don't really understand ^_^;

[Raindrop]

I found some time to browse youtube and came across the All Japan Kendo Federation videos. I'm sure they have been posted many times before, but just in case there's anyone else lurking who has the same question as me, the fumi komi ashi is explained here in detail: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=aczQzsifcDk

All those videos are really, really great! Don't mind the funky 80s music ;D It explains everything you could possibly do during beginner's level and it has good slow-mo shots. Good stuff. I should have watched that before asking ^_^;

[enkorat]

Interesting cultural difference.

I think it might be a little forward for a beginner to ask a head sensei of a large dojo what rank they hold. On the other hand I don't really see how a beginner asking a sempai what grade the sensei is rude as well. Its a question that I think shouldn't be kept "secret", just discussed briefly and moved on from there.

Its traditionally the role of some senpai or associate instructor to take the role of "introducer" and to field such questions that curious visitors might have, in my experience.

As often I have served as the "middleman" between visitors and new members, I have often had to field questions regarding my own rank and that of my sensei, and no matter what rank I held at the time I told them immediately.

Most of the time it was a higher ranking person descretely asking before the practice and when I had to make various introductions. In all of the clubs that I practice at, we (middle management) tend to ask visitors their background in order to introduce visitors to the head sensei, with details on where they trained, and for how long, and what rank they hold.

Its considered bad form to have someone just "show up" in the line without the sensei knowing who they are...

I do recall once when I was teaching a group of beginners some kata and in the middle of the whole thing a beginner bluntly asked me my rank, and I looked at him and provided it and moved on. I felt a little put out by it, but I decided it wasn't a big deal and moved on, since he did listen to me a little bit more closely afterward.

Once when I was at the campus recruitment festival, two young men came up to the table and without much prelude one said "I am first degree", and then pointed to his friend and said "so is he". They happened to be Korean, and my reply was "oh that's nice", which if you think about it, was a rather Japanese answer....

Interesting though, as there might be some cultural differences at play here.

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's a weird etiquette thing. A little rude to ask someone their rank directly, but sometimes you have to know so you ask someone else. I know beginners are curious so I put all that stuff up on the website and try to remember to list off the senior people in our club on the first day - "you'll be taught by A-sensei, who is X-dan and B-sensei, who is Y-dan" and so forth.

[neko]

Oh and what do you mean by "choke up on the tsuka"? I don't really understand ^_^;

grip the shinai with the left hand closer to the tsuba instead of down at the end where you would normally grip it. try holding it half way. if that is too easy or still too hard, adjust accordingly.

and i do think it is a bit rude to ask about rank directly or be too forward about it. i always feel a bit embarrassed actually when i ask someone. i usually say, "may i ask your rank?" that way they can tell me or not. and now that i think about it, there are few people i have asked to their face. i usually ask someone else.

[enkorat]

and i do think it is a bit rude to ask about rank directly or be too forward about it. i always feel a bit embarrassed actually when i ask someone. i usually say, "may i ask your rank?" that way they can tell me or not. and now that i think about it, there are few people i have asked to their face. i usually ask someone else.

I agree that I always feel slightly odd asking, but on the other hand we as a martial art don't wear belts, and on top of that we don't wear belts stitched with dan numbers, as some arts do...so by design and by intent we have to ask at some point.

Sometimes when I'm at a state practice or a seminar where there are 6 or 7 dojos represented and I don't know the majority of people and the head instructor says "line up by rank" we all have to go down the line going "nidan? nidan? shodan? shodan?"

I guess my point was more or less twofold with the original post, that a) it shouldn't be a big deal either way, neither something to be brandished about like some arts that I've been in/seen, nor should it be a secret that is whispered about like its a dirty secret, and b) that since the more polite way of asking for a sensei's rank is to ask indirectly, sempais that think they are upholding a sensei's "will" in these sorts of things by keeping it a secret, might not actually be fuffiling their "role" as middle management, as it were.

On the other hand, I've also given the "rank doesn't mean a military hierarchy" talk to some overeager kohai once...

I think rank is as complicated as one makes it, which is why I normally say grade, which seems to me to be a simpler way of describing how things are.

But again, this is how I've come to terms with rank/grades in the locale where I train, where these things have a different cultural meaning than where I first trained, and there are huge differences in the implementation and perception of ranks and grades across cultures and different martial arts systems, so.... I just try to have fun and a good practice.

[Raindrop]

Thank you, Endorat, Neil and Neko for your elaborations! :)

I'm actually so much more impressed by my sensei's age and experience, maybe that's also why I'm so very careful with ettiquette and stuff. I sometimes feel like an elephant in a porcelain shop when I'm in the dojo cause I never know what's appropriate and what's not. It's strange for me because we as beginners don't do that much except the regular bowing; we don't even do seiza and mokuso yet, but on the other hand it feels strange to not at least hold up the dojo ettiquette I know from shotokan. I just don't wanna seem like I'm overdoing it... lol I guess this is something I'll have to figure out as I go along, and bug my sempais about whenever I have a question. ^^

btw, I watched the hachi dan exam from Nat.Geo last night, and wow, I think when you watch that, you understand it's not about the grade at all, eventhough it's actually about a grade... if you know what I mean ^_^