Bokuto / Bokken ?? is there a difference?

[katanakid]

I am just starting out and doing alot of research as far as epuip ie: online stores and bogu shops in my area but i want to know if there is a diff between bokuto and bokken when i wikkipedia'd both it said there wasn't....but i dont wanna seem noobishly noob (even tho i am ):nervous:and show up with the wrong weapon to my next practices maybe i shoud just buy both??? :confused2
any suggestions would be hugely apreciated


Arigatou gozaimasu

oh ya i cant even believe how sweet this forum is:happy:

why did i wait so long to see the light?

[Oroshi]

Bokuto and bokken are for most intents and purposes the same thing.

If you want to get into the details, bokuto means a wooden sword shaped like a katana. Bokken means a wooden sword of any type. However the words are almost always used interchangeably.

Have you been told to buy a bokken by your teacher? Unless you've been told you need one it might be worth waiting and asking if your teacher recommends a particular retailer. There's never any harm in asking.

[Fai]

we had this conversation before, bokken means "woodend sword" while bokutou means "wooden blade"

In chinese terms a sword has 2 edges and if not it will be considered as a blade.

It will all depend if you think its a sword or blade

[JCM]

Have you been told to buy a bokken by your teacher? Unless you've been told you need one it might be worth waiting and asking if your teacher recommends a particular retailer. There's never any harm in asking.


Very true, you might be able to get your gear a bit cheaper too, some clubs are registered officially as sports clubs, depending on the country/region/state they can avail of tax exemption. Don't fprget to ask at the club either, they may have stuff available for sale there

[ScottUK]

Yes, there is a subtle difference between bokuto and bokken. One is a wooden sword and the other is a sword made from wood... ;)

No idea which is which though... :D

[katanakid]

thank you all for your replies

yes i have been told by mt Sensei to purchase one:smiley:

[sirius1906]

In chinese terms a sword has 2 edges and if not it will be considered as a blade.



There is such distinction in Chinese indeed. Bokuto=木刀: 木=wood; 刀 = single edged blade. Bokken=木剣; 剣 = double edged sword.

Japanese use both ken (剣) and to (刀) for katana. But when it comes to double edged blades/swords, I think even the Japanese call it ken (剣) not to (刀).

Anyways, I think it's safe to say, bokuto = bokken.

[mushinman]

one is an older word, bokuto, while the other is newer jap, bokken. lots of other such instances in many languages.

[JoDuncan]

...
Japanese use both ken (剣) and to (刀) for katana. But when it comes to double edged blades/swords, I think even the Japanese call it ken (剣) not to (刀).
...


My Japanese teacher called them bokuto but yeah, no big diff in kendo world.

[ben]

we had this conversation before, bokken means "woodend sword" while bokutou means "wooden blade"

In chinese terms a sword has 2 edges and if not it will be considered as a blade.

It will all depend if you think its a sword or blade

There is a difference in Japanese between the kanji for blade ("ha") 刃 and the kanji for Japanese sword ("tou") 刀. So I don't see bokuto as meaning wooden blade, but just wooden sword.

b

[Fai]

There is a difference in Japanese between the kanji for blade ("ha") 刃 and the kanji for Japanese sword ("tou") 刀. So I don't see bokuto as meaning wooden blade, but just wooden sword.

b

In chinese it means exactly what I wrote ;)

[Andrew S]

I believe the word "katana" is derived from an older form of kataha (片刃), literally "single blade". I'll check my dictionaries to see the relationship between 刀,剣 and 劒 (katana, ken [modern version] and ken [archaic version, in which you can see a small katana making up the right half of the kanji]
Certainly, the Japanese use the word "to-ken" (刀剣) when referring to swords in general. Japanese swords are usually katana or, more generally, Nihon-to. A very small number of Sengoku-Edo period swords were double edged, as were very ancient ones. Incidentally, the sword mentioned in the mytho-historical Kojiki is referred to as a "tsurugi", written with the same kanji for "ken". Also, remember that much Japanese vocabulary is derived from Chinese, so it is quite possible that "kenjutsu" was a Chinese lexical item that made its way into the Japanese language and picked up a slightly different context i.e. the nature of the sword in question.
My two bits worth.

[Oroshi]

I believe the word "katana" is derived from an older form of kataha (片刃), literally "single blade".
You're right.

'Tsurugi' ('ken' in its Sino-Japanese reading) specifically refers to a double-edged sword, but is also a generic word for sword. It's a more elegant word than 'katana' (which is why it's used for kendo, I believe). The word 'tsurugi' is derived from 吊佩, or 'worn hanging from the belt.' The Chinese word for a double-edged sword (jiàn) in its many forms (剣, 劍, 劒, 劔, 剱, 釼... and likely others) was applied later.

Another old word for a sword is 'tachi,' which I'm sure everyone is familiar with. It refers to a long sword slung from the belt. It's usually written 太刀, which is the kanji used for post-Heian curved blades. The alternative spelling 大刀 refers to straight, pre-Heian tachi (also called chokutō, 直刀). The origin of this word is 断ち, or 'cut, sever, kill.'

The term 'kenjutsu' wasn't as widespread in pre-modern Japan as one might think. I remember reading a Karl Friday article in which he states that 'hyōhō' (兵法) was the most common term used during the Edo period, although there were many others, such as 'tōhō' (刀法), 'kenpō' (剣法), 'gekken' (撃剣), 'tōjutsu' (刀術) and so on. It's only in modern times that kenjutsu has (perhaps for aesthetic reasons) become the most commonly used term.

The difference between 'ken/tsurugi' and 'katana/tō' isn't really of significance in Japanese sword arts, largely because there haven't been any double-edged swords used in Japan for over a thousand years. '剣' is more aesthetically pleasing than '刀', so the word has been retained and remains in common usage.

Edit: I'll see if I can hunt down that Karl Friday article again.

[Kenzan]

A better question is:
Can anyone think of any practical application for knowing the difference?
:silly:

[sirius1906]

regarding bokuto and bokken, call it what you want. it is what it is. interesting info on the language though. :)

[Andrew S]

A better question is:
Can anyone think of any practical application for knowing the difference?
:silly:
Getting rep on Kendo World and impressing kendo babes?

[Kenzan]

Getting rep on Kendo World and impressing kendo babes?

Rep..Yeah, sure I'll give you a rep. I respeckt intelligunce.
:)

...But impressing Kendo babes? C'mon now..
:laugh:

[ZealUK]

I have still never heard a Japanese person use the word bokken.

[xvikingx]

I have still never heard a Japanese person use the word bokken.

This reminds me…. A couple of weeks back two HS kids from my dojo and I did a kata embu for an international exchange committee in our town. It’s purpose was to introduce kendo to gaijin scum… Anyways, one of the guys would do kata with me while the other one explained kendo in both English and Japanese. Before hand he wrote his speech in Japanese, I then translated it for him, and we practiced reading it together. When he got to the portion explaining kata he paused and furrowed his brow, then gave me a puzzled look and asked “What’s a bokken?” To which I replied “Uh… a bokuto”
あっ、そうか

[MyrddinWyllt]

A better question is:
Can anyone think of any practical application for knowing the difference?
:silly:

Impressing newbies with your all-expansive knowledge of the arcane details of Kendo.

Or, to just be "that guy"

I had pondered what the difference was, myself, but after hearing people in my club referring to the same wooden sword as both a bokuto and a bokken, I gave up...

[Kenshi]

When he got to the portion explaining kata he paused and furrowed his brow, then gave me a puzzled look and asked “What’s a bokken?” To which I replied “Uh… a bokuto”

I went out with this kendo lassie a few years ago. Here dad is 7dan (mum is 5dan) and sempai to the Miyazakis. She had never heard the term either. I believe she laughed... "you want to take a what with you to the dojo?"


I have still never heard a Japanese person use the word bokken.

It seems that Japanese people are only allowed to use the word when they are not in Japan. Mysterious.

[xvikingx]

I believe she laughed... "you want to take a what with you to the dojo?"

Perhaps she thought you said boke.

[Kenshi]

Perhaps she thought you said boke.

Maybe she missheard me and thought I said flapper.