baduk (igo)..

[bullet08]

after two TIA, and an accident, i'm taking a break from kendo. my docs don't really want me to do kendo or other things i have been doing until the pain in the small of the back is gone.

so, i was sitting at my father in law's house watching korean tv during the thanksgiving holiday, and noticed baduk (igo) game on the tv. it seemed very interesting. i went to local book store and bought only book that was on the subject they had, and started playing go. it kills time rather fast. unlike western chess, or korean/chinese chess, this thing is hard.

anyone play igo?

pete

[JSchmidt]

aunlike western chess, or korean/chinese chess, this thing is hard.


Are you seriously saying that chess is easy??

[JCM]

I sense a geek flame war coming.


RELEASE THE NERDS!!!


Of which I am one :D

[Neil Gendzwill]

Are you seriously saying that chess is easy??Compared to go, yes.

[bullet08]

Are you seriously saying that chess is easy??

yes.. for me it is. i learned to play chess when i was 6. chess makes perfect sense to me. each pieces have defined move. there are 64 squares, and there are limited moves each pieces can make. you can easily see the whole board and take in the picture without too much issues. do i win all the time? no.. but i can give good fight.

korean/chinese chess.. i really didn't play much of that. i know how the pieces move, but i can't take in the whole board. the movements in themselves are not ingrained in my head. i make ton of mistakes and really not good at it. but it still make sense to me as to what the game is all about.

igo on the other hand.. i only started to play about 2 weeks ago. go read about it, and then play some freeware go at your free time.. it will be just.. very confusing. and you will see what i mean. it really doesn't make any sense. but i heard after while it will start to make some sense. the board itself on standard board is 19x19. the pieces are not preset. each side gets 180 stones to start with, but you might not use all of that. concept of capturing the center as in chess isn't there.. rather most traditional method of starting the game starts at the corners.. whole objective is to create most territory on the board. great way to kill time.

pete

[garyquinn1704]

it's been speculated there are more possible finishing positions in Go than atoms in the universe.


Do I get 50p for my useless fact?

[Kenzan]

Did you mean TIA as in Transient Ischemic attack?
:confused2

[Manuka]

anyone play igo?

pete

Yes, I have played on and off for years.
If you are just starting, take a look at the daily puzzles posted on Gobase.org.
Gobase also has a pretty good Joseki (opening move) library online.

Or download the 9x9 game Igowin.

Big difference in philosophy between Chess and Go.
Chess objective is to capture one key piece, and gaining control of territory helps.
In Go objective is to gain most territory, capture piece(s) may help but is not objective of game.

Ishi Press printed a number of Go books in English some years ago.

[cesarekim]

My father in law used to spend hours on go. I remember he once started a "quick" game with his brother that turned into an all out war over the weekend. Was sort of fun to watch both my mother in law and wife turn blue telling both of them to stop and get ready to go to church...

Beware, from what I have seen it is a highly addictive game (a la tetris). I've seen people literally spend their whole weekends in the go (baduk) hall. Personally, I've made it a point not to learn it. I already have too many hobbies that keep me away from the family.

[bullet08]

Did you mean TIA as in Transient Ischemic attack?
:confused2

is that what it stands for? i just call it TIA since that's what the docs call it. they told me it's mini stroke. where my whole left side of body goes numb.. and i need to go to ER. not fun.. not the TIA part, but the ER. well TIA sucks too.

pete

[bullet08]

Yes, I have played on and off for years.
If you are just starting, take a look at the daily puzzles posted on Gobase.org.
Gobase also has a pretty good Joseki (opening move) library online.

Or download the 9x9 game Igowin.

Big difference in philosophy between Chess and Go.
Chess objective is to capture one key piece, and gaining control of territory helps.
In Go objective is to gain most territory, capture piece(s) may help but is not objective of game.

Ishi Press printed a number of Go books in English some years ago.

just got bunch of books from kiseido press which is printing ishi press books now days.

been playing gnu go engine on drago. i have igowin, but i haven't played it yet. drago/gnu go has option for 9x9, 13x13, and also 19x19. not that i'm up to anything beyond 9x9 with hole bunch of handycap.

does gobase.org have problem along with solution on why each moves are made? i found ton of problems on the net, but not many gives solution with reasons behind exactly why certain moves are made. and if they do, they say it in such way that beginner like me can't really understand. i'll check out that site.

like kendo, the go people are telling me to take my ass to the local club to learn.. lol

pete

[JCM]

is that what it stands for? i just call it TIA since that's what the docs call it. they told me it's mini stroke. where my whole left side of body goes numb.. and i need to go to ER. not fun.. not the TIA part, but the ER. well TIA sucks too.

pete

Actually i should have said this above, sorry about the health problems Pete. I hope you get better soon and are able to get back to Kendo.

[cesarekim]

Actually i should have said this above, sorry about the health problems Pete. I hope you get better soon and are able to get back to Kendo.

oops... Me too. My wife would probably hit me for being an insensitive and rude male... Then again, she doesn't bother with excuses anymore anyway.

Get well soon. Fighting!

[ne0r]

I cannot even imagine how that must suck...
I hope you will get better really soon.

And I tried go myself, but then I was a bit too young for it, I think. Now that you say it, I'll try it again xD
(Somehow, sad but true, I am rather bored by chess and go. I don't know why, perhaps because I only played against senior players and so had never the chance to win. But there must be a reason why a lot of people likes it... I'm gonna find it...)
We had a gigantic 19x19 go board at our comic club, but unfortunately it was closed and the board didn't even belong to the club xD (It was lent) xD

But there is the internet.


it's been speculated there are more possible finishing positions in Go than atoms in the universe.
I don't think so... really...

I have to go through this... How about this (I know, it doesn't fit to the rules):
On each field you have a white/black or no stone. So this makes 3^(19x19) different possibilities.
I think there are more atoms xD

[garyquinn1704]

I cannot even imagine how that must suck...
I hope you will get better really soon.

And I tried go myself, but then I was a bit too young for it, I think. Now that you say it, I'll try it again xD
(Somehow, sad but true, I am rather bored by chess and go. I don't know why, perhaps because I only played against senior players and so had never the chance to win. But there must be a reason why a lot of people likes it... I'm gonna find it...)
We had a gigantic 19x19 go board at our comic club, but unfortunately it was closed and the board didn't even belong to the club xD (It was lent) xD

But there is the internet.


I don't think so... really...

I have to go through this... How about this (I know, it doesn't fit to the rules):
On each field you have a white/black or no stone. So this makes 3^(19x19) different possibilities.
I think there are more atoms xD


if each field can have a black white or no stone, possibility is far greater than 19 x 19, even chess has more possibilities than that




far smarter people than us have given this serious consideration.

[JCM]

I cannot even imagine how that must suck...
I hope you will get better really soon.

And I tried go myself, but then I was a bit too young for it, I think. Now that you say it, I'll try it again xD
(Somehow, sad but true, I am rather bored by chess and go. I don't know why, perhaps because I only played against senior players and so had never the chance to win. But there must be a reason why a lot of people likes it... I'm gonna find it...)
We had a gigantic 19x19 go board at our comic club, but unfortunately it was closed and the board didn't even belong to the club xD (It was lent) xD

But there is the internet.


I don't think so... really...

I have to go through this... How about this (I know, it doesn't fit to the rules):
On each field you have a white/black or no stone. So this makes 3^(19x19) different possibilities.
I think there are more atoms xD

Uhm, actually the maths for that would be a bit more complex, you need to consider the peices in relation one another too (if a white is now occupying a black pieces field, the white could now be in one of 19x19 positions, and so on), also that some pieces may be on the board and some not. The maths on it are a bit of a pain.

By the way, I always found it impossible, I can't understand how to play...

Interesting fact: there is a kyu/dan grading system for the game

[JCM]

Sorry for the double post, interesting article on game complexity and some computational analysis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_complexity

[ne0r]

I don't know how to express this in English, but I meant 3 to the power of 19 times 19, that is 3 to the power of 361.

And I calculated a bit, and it seems that this speculation is realistic...
Assuming that earth consisted only of iron atoms, earth would consist of 6.444x10^48 atoms (6.444 times 10 to the power of 48).
(Yeah, the assumption is quite vague xD)

Go is scary.

[Spendius]

Here is a nice wiki on igo, but I'm afraid that to follow discussions one must have reached a certain level. There are some nice start pages though.
http://senseis.xmp.net/

Edit: on this site, some problems, with solutions/explanation/discussions, classified by level. http://www.goproblems.com/

[Neil Gendzwill]

Interesting fact: there is a kyu/dan grading system for the gameYes, and it's different for amateurs and professionals. Last I heard, computers could play only at about a 5 kyu level, maybe they've improved some recently. 5 kyu is an OK hobbyist who plays once in a while. Chess computers can beat anyone.