Dealing with very physical players

[Andoy]

Let's kick this forum into gear!!

Have you ever had to fight someone who was very physical? Someone that pretty much tries to shove you out of the court when in a match? Even if you're in the middle of the court, some people try to bulldoze you right out! Some of them don't even bother trying to hit you with their shinai! You glance at the shimpan...but they're not calling anything.(I'm not saying that the refereeing is bad, it's just that more often than not, that's what pretty much happens....it's a tough position to be in) How would you go about in this match? What adjustments, if necessary, will you apply? I find that this thread mostly applies to non-degree kenshi such as myself because brute force isn't really common in dan levels....it's pretty much mostly skill although there are some dan holders that push as well. Can you guys share your experiences and provide tips on how to deal with something like this?

[Andoy]

Oh, and another thing. I'm talking about EXTREME levels of pushing! When your opponent is on the edge of the court, it makes sense to push him out although while attempting a waza (ex. hiki men) in the process. There are people out there that think that this is sumo and use pretty much their strength and force....rather than their shinai to try and win matches. Having said all this, feel free to respond to the questions on the first post or just post a msg of a similar experience.

[Nishi]

I find that this thread mostly applies to non-degree kenshi such as myself because brute force isn't really common in dan levels....it's pretty much mostly skill although there are some dan holders that push as well. Can you guys share your experiences and provide tips on how to deal with something like this?

Hi there..We just held our nationals in here in the UK where I participated in the Ikkyu-Sandan division. I think (in our tiakai) this is the roughest division. Im not sure why, mabye its due to the amount of young men...who knows.

My first bout started quite rough, lots of pushing. I didnt feel that the attacks made from chudan where really meant to hit me, but to serve as a means to get into tai-atari, so he could countinue roughing. The bout was very scrappy, i was hardly in ai-chudan, and the pushing wasnt even an attempt to push me out of the shiai-jo it was from corner to corner. After about 1 minute he settled down in chudan (probably out of breath) and i scored debana-kote. Then he was really rough!!! His composure went, it got messy (IMO) but i noticed that his pushing was only to try and intimidate me...not to create an opening for himself, and the pushes where straight...i waited until i had some room and an oppurtunity, he pushed hard, and i collapsed my arms and fell back into hiki-men while his momentum was still forward and unbalanced...Point! The bout was over.

I would say..not getting annoyed, and studying his patterns helped me here, and this was a difficlut bout to stay composed as my opponent was British squad member I was already thinking "oh great"..lol!!...theres a few on the squad who fight like this but now all...besides the bout looking rough, I was pleased I stayed composed and took my chances like i'd been trained to, and i think after the kote hit, it was his composure that went.

[Nishi]

...theres a few on the squad who fight like this but now all...

"theres a few on the squad who fight like this but NOT all.

Sorry about the miss print, i wouldnt say this case was extreme either, it was just pushy......

[Andoy]

Wow.....ikkyu to sandan division? That is one of the hardest divisions I've ever heard... and i thought last year's ikkyu to nidan divison at the PNKF taikai in Renton WA was tough....

Thanks for sharing your experience. For a beginner such as myself it is good reference because that's what I pretty much face(most of the time) in the early rounds of non-degree division tournaments...i'm glad it gets a bit better in the latter rounds.

I guess to chip in my 2 cents, I found out from experience that by fighting around the middle of the court helps reduce the tendency of those pushers to push you. I guess most of them realize that if they have to push you from that position, they'll have to push you even more and that means that they'll probably be exposing themselves for a longer period of time. By fighting in the middle of the court, it gives you plenty of room to apply the waza of your choice. And should your opponent ever push, you can quickly side step to direct his momentum to another area. I find that this works for me. It may not for other people.

Oh and one more thing. Someone pmsged me about this earlier but when someone knocks you down to the floor, your opponent is allowed to have one strike (I'm not sure if you can strike more than once though) on you while you're lying the floor. My senseis told me that this was legal and I even saw someone score a point through this on one of the videos I saw( sorry but I forgot which one). So don't ease off until you hear the shimpan say 'yame'!

[Hyaku]

Oh, and another thing. I'm talking about EXTREME levels of pushing! When your opponent is on the edge of the court, it makes sense to push him out although while attempting a waza (ex. hiki men) in the process. There are people out there that think that this is sumo and use pretty much their strength and force....rather than their shinai to try and win matches. Having said all this, feel free to respond to the questions on the first post or just post a msg of a similar experience.

Sounds like you need some shimpan training. It used to be quite extreme here in Japan but has been cleaned up a lot now.

[A P]

I didn't know that you can score when someone is on the ground. :(

Thanxxxxx for telling us that..

Arigatooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[5ro]

I had a similar experience where my opponent kept pushing me. He was pushing just enough to get on my nerves, which he did. After pushing back some, I realized that he was trying to get me tired by forcing me to match his strength. He was much bigger, slower and stronger than me, but he knew I was faster. I think he felt his only chance was to push me around a bit and tire me out. I eventually won the match by scoring on a hiki men and then men uchi.

Since I had never practiced with anyone who pushed so much, I was caught off guard and didn't know what to do at first. So, I got pissed off and began pushing him back. It wasnt until I began to tire a bit that I realized how stupid that was. I was a bit disappointed by the way I reacted at first, but I guess it was a good lesson.

[Curtis]

In Kendo there is a concept of weak against strong and strong against weak. In this case with a person that wants to fight the match as part sumo you have to use it against them. In tsubazeriai when they push you turn on them to the right or left and redirect their force. Redirecting their force also tires them out. Give them just enough resistance to make them work at it. This often leaves them open to attack. I like to turn to the left and using my left-hand drive/push on their right forearm as I move spinning them to an open position for hikimen or kote. Until the person gains sufficient skill and/or figures out that this is not going to benefit them they will continue to do it.