Kendo vs Fencing..... In the paper!

[Matt Molloy]

Hi All,

Didn't expect to see this in the paper this morning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,2249222,00.html

What is it about this question that means that it just won't go away, in whatever guise? Slightly different take on it though this time.

Cheers,

Matt.

[Kapplow]

The question should be which is cooler? I think we all know the answer to that one.

[Sparv]

It's interresting. It can only make more fencers interrested in kendo.

The rmarkon the "balanced arm strength" sounds quite wrong to my ears, I've always been told to use more of left arm than right, and my left forearm is now slighty bigger than my right one.

[MSPaintClock]

It's interresting. It can only make more fencers interrested in kendo.

The rmarkon the "balanced arm strength" sounds quite wrong to my ears, I've always been told to use more of left arm than right, and my left forearm is now slighty bigger than my right one.

Yeah my left arm is developed differently than my right.

[theorganmouse]

What was the context of the article within the paper? As a standalone article it seemed to be a bit vague as to what it hoped to get out of the two and was unwilling to come to a conclusion ( What should you expect from the Groniad)

[Tosa Samurai]

we had a fencer show up at our dojo during one of our kendo practices we are mainly an iai based school but we also teach kendo anyways after he watched us he was saying some nonsense about moving his wrist and such to stab at any point on the body ect. and he never herd of iai so one of our senoir students at the time said what would you do if my hand was on my tsuka here. and he said with your blade put away he replied yes and the fencer said he couldnt see how anything can be done now mind you how funny this was. mainly what im trying to say is he came with a pre composed idea of what he was going to encounter and he doesnt think out side of the box oh well not everyone is cut out for swordsmanship.

[Sparv]

I've got a maybe off-topic question but here it goes:
For those around the forum who know fencers, how many of them have heard about kendo? 1/10, 1/2? The few I know (4 or 5) all knew at least the name and the shinai. It's more than what I knew the first time I showed up at a practice!

oh well not everyone is cut out for swordsmanship.

Same goes for punctuation.
BTW, I just re-read what I wrote before and I'm sorry for the mess with "remark on"!

[Anonymous]

I've honestly never run into a fencer that said either fencing or kendo is better. And the way I see it, its just two different ways of doing pretty much the same thing, and they'll both work well enough.

[Mr. T.]

Yeah my left arm is developed differently than my right.

Are you sure that's kendo related :p

[Kendoka_Han]

Taken from the Website

Stamina

Kendo - matches last for five minutes and entail short, powerful bouts of attack followed by lower-intensity activities such as tsubazeriai, when players' swords are locked together. Less intense than fencing. 3 stars

Fencing - competitions can go on for long periods, and while the bouts are short, they can be fast and furious, with little rest in between - and that demands aerobic and muscular endurance. 4 stars

I am pretty sure that fencing should have got the 3 stars for this, and kendo 6 stars, as it is the most demanding sport I have ever played. I have played australian rules football for a while, and kendo beats it in stamina.

Espicially the 1 hour of constant kirikaeshi / haya - suburi / taurishi geko (sp?) before we go into another 1 hour of pure ji-geiko (sp?).

But what do fencers do for their cross training? Do they do such repetitive cardio training in their 'dojos'?

[Anonymous]

Taken from the Website



I am pretty sure that fencing should have got the 3 stars for this, and kendo 6 stars, as it is the most demanding sport I have ever played. I have played australian rules football for a while, and kendo beats it in stamina.

Espicially the 1 hour of constant kirikaeshi / haya - suburi / taurishi geko (sp?) before we go into another 1 hour of pure ji-geiko (sp?).

But what do fencers do for their cross training? Do they do such repetitive cardio training in their 'dojos'?



You know, I think that really depends on where you're training, and how you train. The kendo dojo I used to go to makes the one I'm going to start attending now look absurdly relaxed and easy... and I'd imagine that the same would happen with different fencing places and athletic programs.

[yoda-waza]

Strength, agility, co-ordination, stamina and power are not all that kendo is about, as we well know. There is no mention in the article about the most fundamental difference between the two. If you've watched the antics of an Olympic fencers you'd know what I mean. For them, it's all about the triumph of scoring against your opponent. "Mental strength and discipline is a key part of the philosophy of kendo." Perhaps it's too much to expect western cultural media to appreciate that the "key" has a keychain. That would be reigi (reiho).

[Matt Molloy]

What was the context of the article within the paper? As a standalone article it seemed to be a bit vague as to what it hoped to get out of the two and was unwilling to come to a conclusion ( What should you expect from the Groniad)

Hi Mouse,

Every week they compare two "seemingly" related sports and give them however many stars for each category so we've had things like Yoga vs Pilates, Football vs Rugby, Nordic Walking (?) vs Cross Country Skiing, etc.

From the reaction of my wife when they did Yoga vs Pilates (she's taught one and practices the other), they weren't too accurate with that one either.

I think it's just a way for the "chattering classes" to try to convince themselves that they're still maintaining their New Year's resolution to do more sport (even if it is just by reading about it).

Cheers,

Matt.

[satsumaruma]

I've honestly never run into a fencer that said either fencing or kendo is better. And the way I see it, its just two different ways of doing pretty much the same thing, and they'll both work well enough.

Agree totally, we have had a few fencers turn up to try kendo and Iaido and while none stayed the distance, they did seem to enjoy it. the only thing they did do, which was natural enough, was to compare and contrast the differences.

Strength, agility, co-ordination, stamina and power are not all that kendo is about, as we well know. There is no mention in the article about the most fundamental difference between the two. If you've watched the antics of an Olympic fencers you'd know what I mean. For them, it's all about the triumph of scoring against your opponent. "Mental strength and discipline is a key part of the philosophy of kendo." Perhaps it's too much to expect western cultural media to appreciate that the "key" has a keychain. That would be reigi (reiho).


Totally agree again.

I would add that you can also watch the antics of judoka - the Olympics has certainly affected the way they approach their martial art.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The major difference between kendo and fencing, near as I can tell, is that it's the rare fencing club that has the time for a recreational player. In most salles once you're done your competitive career, the instructors stop giving you much attention and would just as soon you quit. As a hobby/social activity kendo is the better choice.

[ne0r]

Perhaps that's another reason why the FIK (is that the right abbreviation?) doesn't want kendo to become olympic?
I really hope kendo will still be in another fifty years an activity that everyone can take up, not only the young. That's something that quite scared me off from giving fencing a try: I looked at a picture of the fencing club and it was like there were only children. I had the impression that you don't have a chance in fencing if you don't start soon enough.

[MSPaintClock]

Are you sure that's kendo related :p

Yeah, I was going to make a joke about it too but I remembered that two wrongs don't make a right.

[caboose12321]

The major difference between kendo and fencing, near as I can tell, is that it's the rare fencing club that has the time for a recreational player. In most salles once you're done your competitive career, the instructors stop giving you much attention and would just as soon you quit. As a hobby/social activity kendo is the better choice.

this is complete crap i have fenced for 5 years i have fenced at 4 fencing clubs and they have all had time for recreational players

[imouto]

The major difference between kendo and fencing, near as I can tell, is that it's the rare fencing club that has the time for a recreational player. In most salles once you're done your competitive career, the instructors stop giving you much attention and would just as soon you quit. As a hobby/social activity kendo is the better choice.
Not true.

I've trained at three fencing clubs, one of which takes competition seriously. They all have time for beginners and even run beginners courses. In addition to this, I made it plainly clear that I was not at all interested in competitions.

Though having said that, fencing clubs are much like dojos. Some work, and some don't.

And as for the article itself. It was clearly written by someone with very little knowledge of fencing and kendo.

What is it today with all these fencing vs kendo threads?

[imouto]

I've honestly never run into a fencer that said either fencing or kendo is better. And the way I see it, its just two different ways of doing pretty much the same thing, and they'll both work well enough.
You have now, virtually anyway.

I say kendo is better but that's not to say that I don't enjoy fencing.

Taken from the Website



I am pretty sure that fencing should have got the 3 stars for this, and kendo 6 stars, as it is the most demanding sport I have ever played. I have played australian rules football for a while, and kendo beats it in stamina.

Espicially the 1 hour of constant kirikaeshi / haya - suburi / taurishi geko (sp?) before we go into another 1 hour of pure ji-geiko (sp?).

But what do fencers do for their cross training? Do they do such repetitive cardio training in their 'dojos'?
It sounds like you've got little to no experience in fencing and you're rather quick to judge rather to find out more information.

As for cross training? I'm not entirely sure what that means.

I do know that at the fencing club I go to, we run several laps of the basketball court as a warm up. Stretching to not just maintain flexibility but to improve it. I even took up yoga and pilates at one point for fencing.

Then there's the drills of techniques which at times in my opinion is not emphasised enough.

And then there's time for bouts. I suppose when you walk in you will notice that it's a lot quieter than a kendo dojo but that's not to say that fencing isn't complex. There's a lot going on.

After some bouts, I do feel like I've run a marathon, particularly when I've been against an experienced fencer who took it upon themselves to fence at a point slightly above my level. I do appreciate that as I learn something.

[Masahiro]

someone tell me why when fencers win a bout, they rip off their fencing mask like it's on fire? is it that "hot" and bothersome? or are they worried about the crowd not knowing who poked who? give me a f-ing break! step into a dojo and do some kirikaeshi and then kakarigeiko then tell me who's hotter under that mask, us or them.

[always_learning]

I run up 50 flights of stairs just for a bit of areobic training and that is nothing compared to 1 hour of kendo. I have never run a marathon but watching the noncompetive "bulk" of the runners past my home at the 35KM mark, they looked like I feel after 2 hours of kendo. So personally I think stamina for Kendo keiko needs to be excellent, so I am not sure about the 3 stars. Yet elderly 70's sensei still do pretty amazing kendo, even if they may not be able to run a marathon.

[imouto]

someone tell me why when fencers win a bout, they rip off their fencing mask like it's on fire? is it that "hot" and bothersome? or are they worried about the crowd not knowing who poked who? give me a f-ing break! step into a dojo and do some kirikaeshi and then kakarigeiko then tell me who's hotter under that mask, us or them.
Think of it as a victory lap. Though it's not really considered good sportsmanship to do that.

And yes, it can get hot under the mask. I've now considered wearing a tenugui because of it.

Also, it is grand standing to a large degree because it can be difficult to determine who hit first despite being hooked up to the electric sensors.

[always_learning]

is it that "hot" and bothersome? or are they worried about the crowd not knowing who poked who? give me a f-ing break! step into a dojo and do some kirikaeshi and then kakarigeiko then tell me who's hotter under that mask, us or them.


Summer has arrived in Tokyo and boy do I wish I could rip my men off after a bout - and then soke my steaming head a a bucket of ice water.

[Kenshi]

Beer.　　　　　　　　　　　　　

[xvikingx]

It's great that everyone here likes kendo but when you all gang up and blindly bash fencing you end up being no better than the tool that started all of this. Those who are highly critical of fencing, very much the same as those who are critical of kendo, have little or no knowledge of the art.
someone tell me why when fencers win a bout, they rip off their fencing mask like it's on fire?
This goes back centuries actually, although tearing it off is just being over zealous because of the thrill of victory. In Germany a strict code of honor developed, so that one could not participate in a joust or duel without first presenting proof of nobel descent. When one met another they were expected to raise his visor. Today fencers aren't supposed to tread the strip without with there mask in place. In fact the modern salute is lagacy of this.
You'll find that many aspects of western/ European customs have roots fencings history. Everything from language, handshakes, offering your right arm to a lady, men's clothing buttoning left over right, etc.

[Hanmi]

It's ok to make comparisons with other martial arts, and to discuss the pros and cons, etc., but IMHO, it is improper to belittle other martial arts.


to hold in esteem human courtesy and honour,
to associate with others with sincerity,

[Manuka]

Difference between Fencing and Kendo?
I pay to belong to the Kendo Dojo (not much, it is non-profit)

I got paid for fencing, but it was not enough.
Digging the holes for the posts
Stringing the wire
but the true back killer was nailing the battens

I much prefer Kendo

[Kagerou]

I'll probably get flamed mercilessly for this by the majority of people who posted on this thread but that's ok, knock yourselves out.

Aren't kendo and fencing basically the same thing? Old martial arts altered to a safe form of competition and way of growing as a person.

[Kenzan]

kendo 6 stars, as it is the most demanding sport I have ever played.



That was what, five, six months ago?

[Kenzan]

Aren't kendo and fencing basically the same thing? .

Yes, quite right.

Kendo and Fencing are exactly the same thing.

Interchangeable actually.

Why, sometimes I even forget which is which.


Now, if you'll be so kind as to commit Seppuku on the Veranda, I think that just about wraps it up.

Do use the short Epee' for that purpose won't you?

That's a good lad.

[Kagerou]

Why, sometimes I even forget which is which.




That's just the old age setting in. Don't worry about it...soon you'll be forgetting that you forget everthing. Then life will be pure bliss for you.

[Kenzan]

That's just the old age setting in. Don't worry about it...soon you'll be forgetting that you forget everthing. Then life will be pure bliss for you.

As I continue to deteriorate,
The sum total of my ultimate revenge for all young people,
will culminate in poop form.

Lots of it.