WKC & Olympic

[rainmaker]

I have seen many people disagree about Kendo becomes an official sports in Olympic game.

1)Why is it okay to held a WKC, but it is not okay for Kendo to be at Olympic game?

2)Do you really think Olympic game will commercialize the Kendo spirit? Looking at TaeKwondo, yes. But I don't not think all Olympic sports are commercialized.

3) Will it have more people practicing Kendo if Kendo becomes Olympic sports? Judo population has slightly increased but not much. However, it has increased awareness.

Your thought on this ? I personally do not have any strong opinion on either side. I just want to hear your opinion on this.

[DCPan]

I was under the impression that one of the main concerns is that being in the Olympics would fundamentally change what ippon means as the point systems would have to be adjusted to make it more "audience" friendly.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I have seen many people disagree about Kendo becomes an official sports in Olympic game.

1)Why is it okay to held a WKC, but it is not okay for Kendo to be at Olympic game?
Because there's a staggering amount of money involved in the Olympics, not to mention the recognition of an olympic medal. These two things mean that outside organizations get involved, namely governments.

2)Do you really think Olympic game will commercialize the Kendo spirit? Looking at TaeKwondo, yes. But I don't not think all Olympic sports are commercialized.
Yes.

3) Will it have more people practicing Kendo if Kendo becomes Olympic sports? Of course.

[Charles Lockhar]

Dumb question(s), but in what way would making kendo an Olympic sport improve kendo? Why would there be a need for Olympic kendo if we already have the WKC and that seems to serve well?

-Charles

[rainmaker]

No such thing as dumb question and dumb answers. I just want to hear other people's opinion. How do you know if WKC serve well ? Kendo population seems shrinking and hard to find a good place to practice. If we have more demand in US or international dojo, can we invite or hire more quality teachers from Japan ?



Dumb question(s), but in what way would making kendo an Olympic sport improve kendo? Why would there be a need for Olympic kendo if we already have the WKC and that seems to serve well?

-Charles

[Bokushingu]

Becuse the Olympic Commitee has been involved in a number unethical situations & many countries do not see Commercial Bribery as unethical, Kendo aspects would not be upheld. I prefer the WKC over the Olympics. as a matter of fact, I stopped watchig the olympics a long time ago.
Who needs the Olympics when you have...
1) US Nationals
2) All Japan Championships & All Japan Police championships
3) The European Championships (hope that's named correctly)
4) World Kendo Championships.

[Ralutin]

Becuse the Olympic Commitee has been involved in a number unethical situations & many countries do not see Commercial Bribery as unethical, Kendo aspects would not be upheld. I prefer the WKC over the Olympics. as a matter of fact, I stopped watchig the olympics a long time ago.
Who needs the Olympics when you have...
1) US Nationals
2) All Japan Championships & All Japan Police championships
3) The European Championships (hope that's named correctly)
4) World Kendo Championships.

I agree, except that I still do watch the Olympics, if I happen to be home and there's nothing else to watch on TV.

Add to the above list the Australian Championships and the All Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Kendo Tournament. Is there a Canadian Nationals? I'm pretty sure there's also a Central/South American tournament.

I was fortunate to attend the 2000 WKC in Santa Clara, California and there was an 'Olympics' aura about the whole tournament.

So, yeah, Olympics = bad for kendo. Just attend a national tournament or the WKC and you'll probably get the same feel.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Canadian Nationals is once every 3 years, in the summer before WKC. This year it's the last weekend in June, in Toronto.

[yoda-waza]

I have seen many people disagree about Kendo becomes an official sports in Olympic game.

1)Why is it okay to held a WKC, but it is not okay for Kendo to be at Olympic game?

2)Do you really think Olympic game will commercialize the Kendo spirit? Looking at TaeKwondo, yes. But I don't not think all Olympic sports are commercialized.

3) Will it have more people practicing Kendo if Kendo becomes Olympic sports? Judo population has slightly increased but not much. However, it has increased awareness.

Your thought on this ? I personally do not have any strong opinion on either side. I just want to hear your opinion on this.

Kendo cannot become an Olympic sport by simply carrying over the methodology and structure of the WKC. Becoming an Olympic sport carries with it a lot of baggage, namely the IOC, and kendo as we know it would be modified to fit their requirements and structure, not the FIK. The only potential benefits of kendo becoming an Olympic sport might be broader publicity and the potential upturn in people wanting to practice it. What they would be practicing for, though, may not be what the WKC is like today. There are already some traditionalists who decry "sport" kendo as a marginalization of its spirit - that the emphasis on point-scoring has distanced kendo from the true cultural milieu and universal humanity at its core. Olympic kendo would be even more so. Transforming kendo into an Olympic sport might reduce it to a synthetic shell of show-time performances - like Olympic fencing has become.

[rainmaker]

But we already have such problem not only in WKC but also in any form of kendo tournament, don't we ???

sungmin


Kendo cannot become an Olympic sport by simply carrying over the methodology and structure of the WKC. Becoming an Olympic sport carries with it a lot of baggage, namely the IOC, and kendo as we know it would be modified to fit their requirements and structure, not the FIK. The only potential benefits of kendo becoming an Olympic sport might be broader publicity and the potential upturn in people wanting to practice it. What they would be practicing for, though, may not be what the WKC is like today. There are already some traditionalists who decry "sport" kendo as a marginalization of its spirit - that the emphasis on point-scoring has distanced kendo from the true cultural milieu and universal humanity at its core. Olympic kendo would be even more so. Transforming kendo into an Olympic sport might reduce it to a synthetic shell of show-time performances - like Olympic fencing has become.

[ben]

I'll give you an interesting example of the how pervasive the commercialisation of the Olympics is.

I recently organised to purchase some tatami mats for our state kendo federation to use at competitions. While I was getting quotes I found out an interesting thing. Olympic judo mats are smaller than the standard tatami mat size (which is itself a unit of measurement for rooms in Japan). I'd be willing to bet you can't use anything other than an official Olympic size judo mat for IOC-sanctioned competition. And guess what else? Each mat costs nearly twice as much as the standard size.

There is no conceivable reason for this, other than to make money. The mats are not made to any higher tolerances. It is simply because, once a sport is Olympic, the amount of money available for everything to do with that sport increases hugely. It's like the US defence contractors' rorting schemes of the 1970s, where each rivet in a fighter aircraft was costed as being worth $100.

b

[yoda-waza]

But we already have such problem not only in WKC but also in any form of kendo tournament, don't we ???

sungmin

To a degree, yes, that's what I alluded to, but an Olympic sport is a quantum leap from the sport aspect kendo already has today. Even in the competitions as they exist now, the traditional roots of kendo are evident in the conduct and manners of kendo tournaments worldwide. Many fear that that tenuous tie to the past would go out the window in an Olympic format. Kendo would be all show and no soul. Money would rule and glory would be the goal.

[rainmaker]

I am not disagree with you. I am 40 years old and prefer to stay with budo side. But is it wrong to have sports aspect ? I already see 50% of our students are enjoying sports aspect of Kendo... I think we are giving them an option. If you want sports side, they can do it. But if they want Budo aspect, they can enjoy that too. At this time, we do not have such option at all unless you are living in California and NY.


To a degree, yes, that's what I alluded to, but an Olympic sport is a quantum leap from the sport aspect kendo already has today. Even in the competitions as they exist now, the traditional roots of kendo are evident in the conduct and manners of kendo tournaments worldwide. Many fear that that tenuous tie to the past would go out the window in an Olympic format. Kendo would be all show and no soul. Money would rule and glory would be the goal.

[yoda-waza]

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with kendo taikai. They are fun and challenging events. I simply don't want kendo to lose itself just to become an Olympic sport.

What option can you not have in Florida?

[NigelSponge]

Dumb question(s), but in what way would making kendo an Olympic sport improve kendo? Why would there be a need for Olympic kendo if we already have the WKC and that seems to serve well?

-Charles

Well, for one maybe someone other than those who already do kendo and go LOOKING for the dvd or vids on youtube will see it =P
If those taking part in Olympic kendo value kendo and it's budo aspects then what is everyone so afraid of? Are the Olympic organizers gonna train a pool of kendoka who have no appreciation for the tradition of kendo and will wear fancy olympic bogu and jump up and down when they get ippon? I doubt it, those who will be in the competition are just like the rest of us. Saying that Olympic kendo will destroy it's traditional and ethical values kinda seems like we don't trust our most skilled practitioners to do kendo justice and stay true to what got them to the level they are at. The organizers of the Olympics can do what ever they want, once the match starts its in the kenshi's hands. I still don't have a concrete opinion on the matter honestly. I just think that we sometimes forget who is going to be doing the kendo, US! If the kendo/kumdo community wants to preserve budo within the art i don't see how drastically kendo could be affected from being in the Olympics, and if they don't, we have a much bigger problem than if kendo should be in the Olympics or not =P

[rainmaker]

# of Kendo students. Very hard to recruit students here. I would say Cal, NY, Washington state have big Asian population and always have good # of Kendo population. But here, # goes up and down and Kendo school closes or changes location all the time. Sometimes, you have 2 students to 10 students. Students lose interest easily if you have only one or two students in the class....


Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with kendo taikai. They are fun and challenging events. I simply don't want kendo to lose itself just to become an Olympic sport.

What option can you not have in Florida?

[Kenzan]

So you want Kendo to become an Olympic sport?
Here’s my take on how it would go down:

Men and Women who you have never heard of, never met, never seen train at your Dojo and never will- suddenly pop out of some Corporate sponsored arena to become the world’s perception of what Kendo is.

Forget Seme, toss out Zanshin, throw away Ki-Ken-Tai-Ichi.
Too esoteric.
Too difficult for the T.V. viewer to understand, to boring to follow or care about.

No, at this point it’ll be two people with sticks, seeing who can hit each other the fastest.

The impetus for athletes will be win! Win! WIN!
At any cost.
There will be mega sponsors.
Bogu will be adorned with various seals and advertisements, from McDonald’s to Coca-Cola, to Sony PS3 and Nokia.
Which part of the Bogu will become the prime real estate?
The Do? The Tare?
Which will be the “Quarter panel” vied for by Multinational conglomerates to display and hawk their latest consumer crap?

Do you really want to see a guy in Bogu on your box of Wheaties?

Then you have the Shinpan. Why need three? Does Fencing have three?
For that matter, why stick with the four targets? Why not include any old part of the body as a valid “point?”

As for me, I say no to such madness.
Kendo is too special.
Kendo is too unique.

Kendo is a once in a lifetime opportunity to grow as a person, to learn about yourself, to learn about others, to battle your own demons and explore the depths of your own heart.
To breach the limits of your beliefs, hopes, dreams; and to force you to examine just who you think you are.

Kendo is such a thing that it deserves to be preserved.
It begs to be preserved.
It must be preserved.

Kendo asks of us, it’s practitioners, to keep its traditions alive;
to keep the tenets and foundations of it alive;
in essence, to keep Kendo alive.

Who will do this if not us?
Who is Kendo?
We are Kendo.
All of us.

Kendo promises to us not world fame, or vast fortunes, or even commercial endorsements.

What it gives us is something far more valuable than any of these things.

The things that cannot be measured; the things that cannot be put adequately into words.

All who practice Kendo knows what is meant, but it cannot be described.

The person who’s back straightens.
The person esteeming themselves in the act of esteeming others.
The person who is stopped in learning only by death.
The person who all trusts because they trust themselves.
The person, whose heart one day, grows bigger than the sun.

To me, this is Kendo.

I feel strongly that Kendo must not be sold, or packaged, or labeled, or made into an icon for popular consumption.

While the tools over time may change, at its core,
Kendo set in any other stage would no longer be Kendo;



-but simply some people hitting one another with sticks.

[samurai80]

Too bad I have to spread rep. Almost (if not) poetic, Kenzan. I was almost waiting for the link to a hilarious picture.

[Charles Lockhar]

Well, for one maybe someone other than those who already do kendo and go LOOKING for the dvd or vids on youtube will see it =P

Well, uh, beyond that obvious benefit, uh, wait, what does that do for kendo?

I'm sorry to say that kendo is not interesting to look at unless you do kendo and know what you're looking at. In fact, it's pretty boring to watch unless you do kendo, and know what to look for. And, like, hello, we don't need another boring sport in the Olympics, we already have soccer.

So I just don't see what the benefit would be. The only benefit I can see is that it might get more people into kendo, and I'm not sure if that is really a benefit.

But I don't really know much about the issues, so I could just be absolutely wrong.

-Charles

[nonamehandle]

And, like, hello, we don't need another boring sport in the Olympics, we already have soccer.


HEY!
:eek:

[ben]

I don't think the issue is the kind of people who are doing kendo now, it's the future participants, and the reasons they choose to start kendo, were kendo to become Olympic. Someone who starts kendo because there's the possibility of money in it and a pathway to sporting glory is going to be doing it for different reasons to now. And if, along the way, they are asked to compromise on something--e.g. wearing sponsorship or different coloured dogi for TV--they are more likely to make that compromise to "keep their dream alive", as they say.

Personally I don't think constant growth in anything, be it economics or numbers of people practicing kendo, is intrinsically a good thing. No system can support constant growth indefinitely.

Besides it's a moot point as has been pointed out before. The FIK does not have enough member countries and there are plenty of other sports just ready to throw their legs in the air for the IOC in order to get the big $$$.

b

[Chaby]

...
As for me, I say no to such madness.
Kendo is too special.
Kendo is too unique.

Kendo is a once in a lifetime opportunity to grow as a person, to learn about yourself, to learn about others, to battle your own demons and explore the depths of your own heart.
To breach the limits of your beliefs, hopes, dreams; and to force you to examine just who you think you are.

Kendo is such a thing that it deserves to be preserved.
It begs to be preserved.
It must be preserved.

Kendo asks of us, it’s practitioners, to keep its traditions alive;
to keep the tenets and foundations of it alive;
in essence, to keep Kendo alive.

Who will do this if not us?
Who is Kendo?
We are Kendo.
All of us.

Kendo promises to us not world fame, or vast fortunes, or even commercial endorsements.

What it gives us is something far more valuable than any of these things.

The things that cannot be measured; the things that cannot be put adequately into words.

All who practice Kendo knows what is meant, but it cannot be described.

The person who’s back straightens.
The person esteeming themselves in the act of esteeming others.
The person who is stopped in learning only by death.
The person who all trusts because they trust themselves.
The person, whose heart one day, grows bigger than the sun.

To me, this is Kendo.

I feel strongly that Kendo must not be sold, or packaged, or labeled, or made into an icon for popular consumption.

...


Kenzan!
That was beautiful and very true.
Thank you for sharing that thought, that was one of the most inspiring post I read on this forum.

[Obulco]

I am not disagree with you. I am 40 years old and prefer to stay with budo side. But is it wrong to have sports aspect ? I already see 50% of our students are enjoying sports aspect of Kendo... I think we are giving them an option. If you want sports side, they can do it. But if they want Budo aspect, they can enjoy that too. At this time, we do not have such option at all unless you are living in California and NY.

I understand what you are saying and I sort of sympathize, Rainmaker, but this is precisely the core of the problem. Forms of budo with a sport/competition angle (i.e. Kendo, Judo) always live within the tension of the budo/sport dichotomy. This is fine because, as much as they might be the subjects of contention, they both coexist and keep each other in check. This was still the situation of Judo, say, 40 years ago. However, when they become part of the Olympic Games, this equilibrium is broken and the sport aspects become the main focus, not only because of the individuals more in tuned with this sport side become more prominent, but because part of the control is taken by the Olympic organization. It is a slippery slope and, before you know it, changes are introduced that modify the quality of the instruction, the nature of reiho, or even the goal of training itself.

[Berserker]

So you want Kendo to become an Olympic sport?
Here’s my take on how it would go down:

Men and Women who you have never heard of, never met, never seen train at your Dojo and never will- suddenly pop out of some Corporate sponsored arena to become the world’s perception of what Kendo is.

Forget Seme, toss out Zanshin, throw away Ki-Ken-Tai-Ichi.
Too esoteric.
Too difficult for the T.V. viewer to understand, to boring to follow or care about.

No, at this point it’ll be two people with sticks, seeing who can hit each other the fastest.

The impetus for athletes will be win! Win! WIN!
At any cost.
There will be mega sponsors.
Bogu will be adorned with various seals and advertisements, from McDonald’s to Coca-Cola, to Sony PS3 and Nokia.
Which part of the Bogu will become the prime real estate?
The Do? The Tare?
Which will be the “Quarter panel” vied for by Multinational conglomerates to display and hawk their latest consumer crap?

Do you really want to see a guy in Bogu on your box of Wheaties?

Then you have the Shinpan. Why need three? Does Fencing have three?
For that matter, why stick with the four targets? Why not include any old part of the body as a valid “point?”

As for me, I say no to such madness.
Kendo is too special.
Kendo is too unique.

Kendo is a once in a lifetime opportunity to grow as a person, to learn about yourself, to learn about others, to battle your own demons and explore the depths of your own heart.
To breach the limits of your beliefs, hopes, dreams; and to force you to examine just who you think you are.

Kendo is such a thing that it deserves to be preserved.
It begs to be preserved.
It must be preserved.

Kendo asks of us, it’s practitioners, to keep its traditions alive;
to keep the tenets and foundations of it alive;
in essence, to keep Kendo alive.

Who will do this if not us?
Who is Kendo?
We are Kendo.
All of us.

Kendo promises to us not world fame, or vast fortunes, or even commercial endorsements.

What it gives us is something far more valuable than any of these things.

The things that cannot be measured; the things that cannot be put adequately into words.

All who practice Kendo knows what is meant, but it cannot be described.

The person who’s back straightens.
The person esteeming themselves in the act of esteeming others.
The person who is stopped in learning only by death.
The person who all trusts because they trust themselves.
The person, whose heart one day, grows bigger than the sun.

To me, this is Kendo.

I feel strongly that Kendo must not be sold, or packaged, or labeled, or made into an icon for popular consumption.

While the tools over time may change, at its core,
Kendo set in any other stage would no longer be Kendo;



-but simply some people hitting one another with sticks.


IOU + rep... As soon as the computer says it's time to give you some I will... You summed it up perfectly and I feel exactly the same way...

Cheers mate:)

[Bokushingu]

So you want Kendo to become an Olympic sport?
Here’s my take on how it would go down:

Men and Women who you have never heard of, never met, never seen train at your Dojo and never will- suddenly pop out of some Corporate sponsored arena to become the world’s perception of what Kendo is.

Forget Seme, toss out Zanshin, throw away Ki-Ken-Tai-Ichi.
Too esoteric.
Too difficult for the T.V. viewer to understand, to boring to follow or care about.

No, at this point it’ll be two people with sticks, seeing who can hit each other the fastest.

The impetus for athletes will be win! Win! WIN!
At any cost.
There will be mega sponsors.
Bogu will be adorned with various seals and advertisements, from McDonald’s to Coca-Cola, to Sony PS3 and Nokia.
Which part of the Bogu will become the prime real estate?
The Do? The Tare?
Which will be the “Quarter panel” vied for by Multinational conglomerates to display and hawk their latest consumer crap?

Do you really want to see a guy in Bogu on your box of Wheaties?

Then you have the Shinpan. Why need three? Does Fencing have three?
For that matter, why stick with the four targets? Why not include any old part of the body as a valid “point?”

All I can say is wow! that's freakin' scary! bastardization at it's best. It just shows that Olympic has transformed from what it was meant to be to a money making racket.

The rest of your post was pure poetry and makes me want to get out of my chair and do some suburi!

++Rep, my Brotha'

[Kenzan]

HEY!
:eek:

ROFL

:D
>>

[Theodore]

For me it's the thought of electric shinais and wired bogu.

And then there are the bad manners that go with the whole win at any cost ethos. I quit being a nationally ranked fencing referee (US nationals to the round of 16) after I black carded the top ranked female US saberist who took off her mask and threw it at what she thought was a bad call. You do not want to see that kind of behavior at a kendo bout. Ever.

[mononokifool]

For me it's the thought of electric shinais and wired bogu.

And then there are the bad manners that go with the whole win at any cost ethos. I quit being a nationally ranked fencing referee (US nationals to the round of 16) after I black carded the top ranked female US saberist who took off her mask and threw it at what she thought was a bad call. You do not want to see that kind of behavior at a kendo bout. Ever.

Wow, is she still aloud to compete?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Throwing masks isn't that uncommon in fencing. Just attend any fencing competition to get an idea of how different the atmosphere is compared to kendo.

[ne0r]

I just want to add two things:

1) I don't think anyone would take up kendo to become an olympic athlete, if he's older than ten. I personally am quite interested in fencing but I wouldn't ever think of going to the olympics. But I could imagine that competition would become a more important part of kendo if kendo was to become olympic.
By the way: I talked to a former fencer and she said that you really have to love fencing to stick to it. I don't think anyone really takes up fencing just to go to Olympia.

2) Could someone please explain to me what exactly happened to judo? I somehow cannot imagine that it got so bad; after all, where I come from, karate is a lot more known than judo.


Well, I would like to expand my thoughts on this topic:
I don't think kendo will change as long as the people who stay at / drop out of kendo won't change. So the changes by the IOC/whatever would have to influence the people who stay at kendo. Supposed the IOC introduces electronic scoring to olympic kendo, will that also mean that non-olympic kendo will use electronic scoring? Only if the FIK completely gave away the reins to the IOC. And even then, will electronic scoring change the kenshi that stay? Will kenshi that otherwise would stay now drop out? Kendo would still be "hard", in my opinion.

I don't think it would be so bad as in Kenzan's olympic-kendo-dystopia. But still I like kendo the way it is.

[Karaken]

Not that I am advocating Kendo becoming Olympic sport but there are examples of Sports purely judged by Simpan ( Figure Skating, Diving, Boxing, Gymnastics etc.. ) Of course there are a lot of controversy in those sports but it wouldn't be hard to imagine that Kendo judging be left as such - done by experienced judges. They don't do video replay of boxing do they? As long as simpans are properly qualified and we maintain 3 simpans, I think we can still be safe. Too naive to think it this way?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Judo has become much more heavily sport-oriented since 1964. Did you know that some competitive clubs don't teach breakfalls? The reason is, if you slap the mat during your fall, that's an indication you've been thrown well and the judges are more likely to call the point. So better not to learn the skill at all, less your instinctive breakfall gives your opponent the point. Similarly, some clubs train very little groundwork. Why? Waste of time for competitive judo, the judges stand you up after a short time anyways, just learn to turtle effectively and concentrate on your standing waza.

Competitive players now have to have a blue and a white judogi. Why? Easier to tell them apart on TV. The judges award fractional points for crappy throws. Why? Too hard to get ippon. Easier now - the standard for ippon has dropped.

Etiquette is down the toilet as the Japanese have less and less influence. Hell, we even have a poster in our dojo of Nicholas Gill (one of Canada's top competitors) doing some kind of clenched-fist victory yell after throwing for ippon, and this is produced by Judo Canada as a promotional tool. TV viewers like to see emotional displays of victory. Whatever would they do with the kendo-style bow at the end where you can't tell who won and who lost?

[Miravil]

Personally I prefer WKC than Olympic.

I used to practice Taekwondo and I see my fair share of politics and attitudes shown by the members. I felt ashamed when seeing some of the members showing bad discipline because they want to win and get the sponsorship money/fame. :(

[Sparv]

Not that I am advocating Kendo becoming Olympic sport but there are examples of Sports purely judged by Simpan ( Figure Skating, Diving, Boxing, Gymnastics etc.. ) Of course there are a lot of controversy in those sports but it wouldn't be hard to imagine that Kendo judging be left as such - done by experienced judges. They don't do video replay of boxing do they? As long as simpans are properly qualified and we maintain 3 simpans, I think we can still be safe. Too naive to think it this way?

Yep, too naive. Originally the foil was judged by four assistants plus a head judge. Now it's video, and you can de sure that it didn't improve the sport at all.

[samurai80]

Kendo in the Olympics would be tragic. Kenzan put it best, so I'll let it rest like that. Another problem would be (this is a personal opinion) that I would want shimpan that were Japanese. Probably the same shimpan from the All Japans. I don't think that would fly with the other countries at the Olympics. I know some of you are fencers on here, but if kendo ended up even a fraction of what fencing has become, I'd rather kendo not exsist at all. Where was that clip someone posted where the girls were pumping the arms , screaming as they tossed their mask off, and falling to their knees while celebrating? It was literally the stuff you get punched for doing. "In your face bitch! Woooooo!!!" I'll pass.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Actually the judging in foil is by machine.

[ne0r]

Judo has become much more heavily sport-oriented since 1964. Did you know that some competitive clubs don't teach breakfalls? The reason is, if you slap the mat during your fall, that's an indication you've been thrown well and the judges are more likely to call the point. So better not to learn the skill at all, less your instinctive breakfall gives your opponent the point. Similarly, some clubs train very little groundwork. Why? Waste of time for competitive judo, the judges stand you up after a short time anyways, just learn to turtle effectively and concentrate on your standing waza.

Competitive players now have to have a blue and a white judogi. Why? Easier to tell them apart on TV. The judges award fractional points for crappy throws. Why? Too hard to get ippon. Easier now - the standard for ippon has dropped.

Etiquette is down the toilet as the Japanese have less and less influence. Hell, we even have a poster in our dojo of Nicholas Gill (one of Canada's top competitors) doing some kind of clenched-fist victory yell after throwing for ippon, and this is produced by Judo Canada as a promotional tool. TV viewers like to see emotional displays of victory. Whatever would they do with the kendo-style bow at the end where you can't tell who won and who lost?

Ah, thanks. Didn't know it changed that much.

I've heard of a similar development in TKD: Allegedly one of the administrations of TKD changed the techniques and made them easier; He said it was because they wanted more people to stick with it.

[Kenzan]

Etiquette is down the toilet as the Japanese have less and less influence. Hell, we even have a poster in our dojo of Nicholas Gill (one of Canada's top competitors) doing some kind of clenched-fist victory yell after throwing for ippon, and this is produced by Judo Canada as a promotional tool. TV viewers like to see emotional displays of victory. Whatever would they do with the kendo-style bow at the end where you can't tell who won and who lost?

>>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.rediff.com/sports/2000/sep/judo1.jpg)

[Sparv]

Actually the judging in foil is by machine.

Machine AND video. The criteria for a point are not as simple as with épée: you have to touch without being countered.

[Bokushingu]

I just want to add two things:

1) I don't think anyone would take up kendo to become an olympic athlete, if he's older than ten. I personally am quite interested in fencing but I wouldn't ever think of going to the olympics. But I could imagine that competition would become a more important part of kendo if kendo was to become olympic.
By the way: I talked to a former fencer and she said that you really have to love fencing to stick to it. I don't think anyone really takes up fencing just to go to Olympia.

2) Could someone please explain to me what exactly happened to judo? I somehow cannot imagine that it got so bad; after all, where I come from, karate is a lot more known than judo.


Well, I would like to expand my thoughts on this topic:
I don't think kendo will change as long as the people who stay at / drop out of kendo won't change. So the changes by the IOC/whatever would have to influence the people who stay at kendo. Supposed the IOC introduces electronic scoring to olympic kendo, will that also mean that non-olympic kendo will use electronic scoring? Only if the FIK completely gave away the reins to the IOC. And even then, will electronic scoring change the kenshi that stay? Will kenshi that otherwise would stay now drop out? Kendo would still be "hard", in my opinion.

I don't think it would be so bad as in Kenzan's olympic-kendo-dystopia. But still I like kendo the way it is.

hmm i see what you are saying. the problem is that the purpose of Kendo would be to complex for the IOC to understand. They would take 2 things in consideration when making it a trial sport.
1) International Support--will there be enough teams from various nations
2) Viewer satisfaction--will they get viewer support.

I don't think the FIK could stop the IOC from interpreting Kendo how it wants. They would concentrate on trying to make it where viewers can see a point being made. Your average person could not appreciate a beautiful Ippon unless they have had some kendo training.

IMHO Kendo is just too complex & unique for the Olympics.

[ne0r]

Agreed.

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