SeHyun kote comparison

[nonamehandle]

i had been helped alot by the information on bogu and equipment posted here on the forum (esp. the FAQ by Neil is awesome) so i thought i might contribute just a little as well.
rather than posting pictures of a new kote, i will post pictures of used kote with the pictures of the new kote as well. hopefully this will give another way to evaluate the quality of the kote.
both the new and the used are sehyun kote k-06:


new kote, price is around 200 us dollars and is the top line for machine stitched kote. the stitching is very good (seems even better than the used one) and very solidly made.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25090641@N08/2363236868/


used kote, 5 years old, still original palm though it can use repalming now. with repalming i think it can last for another good 3 years. there are fraying in certain places. the palm is still soft. except for a couple of places, the stitches still hold.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25090641@N08/2362405345/in/photostream/


the kotes side by side. there is a slight difference in the embroidery, but i am pretty certain that they are still the same model: k-06
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25090641@N08/2363237426/in/photostream/


pictures of places where there are fraying on the used kote
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25090641@N08/2362405769/in/photostream/


again
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25090641@N08/2362405961/in/photostream/


and the palm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25090641@N08/2363238064/in/photostream/



i am planning to use the old kote at the university dojo, which means that it will only see about 1 time/wk of use. so it should last me another 3 years at he minimum. i could have kept on using this kote, but because the sempais wanted me to come back to practice with the kohais at the university dojo, i needed a separate set. the new kote i will practice with at the new dojo.

while at sehyun, i also got to examine other bogu parts. i wanted to buy their handmade 1.0 bu kote, its the kote that comes in the bogu set no. 102 (they have a higher priced one, but the difference is really only in the embroidery), but decided to hold off until i could buy the whole set together. i only looked closely at the men and the kote for this set, and i was very impressed in the workmanship and the quality of the product etc. i will probably get this set as my going away present when i leave this place. price is around $2300.

i am also thinking of buying japanese bogu and i would love the opportunity to examine japanese bogu closely to compare products, but do not have ready opportunity (maybe i will take a look at fellow kenshis at the private dojo). and i need to be personally able to tell the difference in quality before i can justify to myself to pay 2-3 times more.

hope this is useful to someone...

[tango]

EXCELLENT!

This is very helpful information to see pics of the original and used stuff side-by-side (same model stuff anyway)..

I've been looking very very hard at Seyhun's 1.5bu and 2.0bu sets, but I'm holding off for a time to save money and a better exchange rate. It's good to have yet another opinion from a KWer that the quality of their bogu seems to be pretty good.


Some of the fraying you noted looks pretty normal to me and is almost identical (to the extent of fraying) that existed on my tozando 4mm kote after about 5 or 6 yrs of use (normally 1x per week practice)..

thanks for this post!

[tango]

mega rep, btw.. unfortunately, i've gotta spread some more around.

[More Porridge]

Is it just me, or does the older kote have more padding on the fist and thumb?

[takuarashi]

yeah, i noticed the thinner padding on the thumb too.

[nonamehandle]

well that is a good question. i don't remember them being different when i had both with me together, but i will double check. they are in separate places now, so it will have to take several days before i can check, but i will get back to you guys.

[j.noh]

I own two pairs, one Sehyun and one Samshin. The Sehyun is 2.5MM Machine and looks huge compared to other Kote I have seen. That said they're a pretty decent pair and protect well against all but the worst right arm dominated new people.

The Samshin one I just recently bought is 1.5Bu and cheaper than the Sehyun's. I was in Korea for 10 days and ended up going from Bogu shop to Bogu shop until I found the 1.5BU handmade for around $200 USD. Less padding than the Sehyun's but protect better. The Sehyun ones do like to pack in the deer hair in the Kera or hand area compared to other Korean or Japanese made Kote. After a few practice's though I have to admit that I regret buying my set from Sehyun. They seem to be generally regarded as overpriced in Korea. Unfortunately Samshin doesn't have a site for N.America. Only Europe.

FWIW.

[nonamehandle]

I own two pairs, one Sehyun and one Samshin. The Sehyun is 2.5MM Machine and looks huge compared to other Kote I have seen. That said they're a pretty decent pair and protect well against all but the worst right arm dominated new people.

The Samshin one I just recently bought is 1.5Bu and cheaper than the Sehyun's. I was in Korea for 10 days and ended up going from Bogu shop to Bogu shop until I found the 1.5BU handmade for around $200 USD. Less padding than the Sehyun's but protect better. The Sehyun ones do like to pack in the deer hair in the Kera or hand area compared to other Korean or Japanese made Kote. After a few practice's though I have to admit that I regret buying my set from Sehyun. They seem to be generally regarded as overpriced in Korea. Unfortunately Samshin doesn't have a site for N.America. Only Europe.

FWIW.

i do agree that sehyun is not the best value for the money. people here in korea complain about the price of sehyun products but nevertheless trust its quality. a week after i bought the new kote, i went to a store called kumdo mall and looked at their handmade kote, which i could have bought for a similar price i paid for the sehyun one...if i knew about this place, that is probably what i would have done. the handmade kote was so much lighter than the sehyun machine made one!

[tango]

perhaps i'm slightly confused, but it seems the 1.5bu from Sehyun, according to their website, is almost US$1000 cheaper than a comparable Japanese set --- all arguments about korean vs. japanese sets aside. at least a few guys around here seem to have been very satisfied with their handstitch sehyun sets... so, is ~US$1200 for a 1.5bu expensive? I suppose that's arguable. .

The ultimate question seems to be --- Do you get what you pay for? If you pay $1200 for a 1.5bu set from Sehyun, are you getting a good 1.5bu set? If you pay $700 for the same quality set from Samshin, then I don't think there's any question what the better deal is. This takes perhaps other things into consideration (do you have more custom options, is customer service ok, etc.).

Quite frankly, I'm really disappointed in the Samshin website (the link provided in one of the earlier posts here) because the english language on the site is absolutely so atrocious as to make me wonder just what I'm looking at. You click on "handmade" and you get taken to a 3MM set.... now... does this mean handstitch 3mm (read: ~1.5bu)? or does it mean "we used a machine by hand to get 3mm"? Or does it mean 3.0bu? I don't know. It's just not that clear to me on the site and I can't really tell from the pictures. Not only that, but that seems to be the only option (or maybe it's one of two options) for "handstitch" bogu.

FWIW, I also think comparing handstitch to machine stitch is really, really difficult to do. I've yet to see a 2mm set (japanese or korean) that was worth the money and better than a 3mm (from some suppliers) or 4mm... and I've seen several 2.0bu (~4mm) sets that looked to be better than any 2mm set. I've used 2.0bu kote once (a 20+yr old pair from my instructor) and they were absolutely wonderful.

[nonamehandle]

The ultimate question seems to be --- Do you get what you pay for? If you pay $1200 for a 1.5bu set from Sehyun, are you getting a good 1.5bu set? If you pay $700 for the same quality set from Samshin...

yes you are right. $1200 from sehyun would be much higher quality than a $700 from samshin. i can't envision how a $700 set from any of the vendors in korea (that you can buy from) can be of the same quality as a $1200 from sehyun...the numbers just do not add up. when i say sehyun is pricey, i mean that it is around 10-20% more than other vendors for the same materials used. the premium you pay with sehyun is with stuff that Tango mentioned: service, customer care, assurance of attention to details, etc.




FWIW, I also think comparing handstitch to machine stitch is really, really difficult to do.
agree. the handmade from kendo mall that i mentioned in the prior post was much lighter than the machine made precisely because it was handmade. however, the detail and care in the stitching and other small details, the sehyun machine made was much better than the kendo mall handmade.


i do agree that sehyun is not the best value for the money.
i feel i should clarify: i meant to say that you can pay around 10-20% less in money than what you pay at sehyun and get a similar product (of course you will have to do the legwork like j.noh did to find a vendor that you trust) elsewhere. i meant to say, "not the best value for the money" in this manner; but i think i should have been more careful in stating that.



Less padding than the Sehyun's but protect better. The Sehyun ones do like to pack in the deer hair in the Kera or hand area compared to other Korean or Japanese made Kote.

just to clarify, having more deer cotton in the hand areas is a good thing right? not sure why this might be considered a negative asset.



After a few practice's though I have to admit that I regret buying my set from Sehyun. They seem to be generally regarded as overpriced in Korea.
yes they are pricier than other vendors, but only by around 10-20 %.

for example, if i bought from samshin a kote comparable to the one pictured here, i think i would have saved around 20 dollars or paid around 20 dollars more, go figure.

[nonamehandle]

I've been looking very very hard at Seyhun's 1.5bu and 2.0bu sets, but I'm holding off for a time to save money and a better exchange rate.

Hey Tango, my opinion, whatever its worth, is to wait an additional 1-2 years and save some more money and buy a set from cheil/jeil. see my other thread with the links to the photos. the price would be around low $2000 with bamboo do, the price for the sehyun is without the bamboo do but with a fibre do. i think this might be a better deal. i had been thinking of the sehyun handmade as well, but am leaning much more towards cheil/jeil...i just will have to increase my trips to the blood and sperm bank :D

the only thing that might be problematic for you is how to go about ordering it and the cost to have it delivered to the states. if you or a friend has a chance to visit korea that would be one way...or if you can find someone in korea and ply them with promises of lotsa lotsa lotsa future beer, that might be another way. :laugh:

[tango]

Waiting another 1-2 years (at least) is definitely in the cards.. I'm in no real rush to buy..

btw, I *am* enjoying the links you're providing.. great pics.

[tango]

noname -- and thanks for your clarfication on the "pricey" aspect of things...

when I hear "pricey" I think of price differences between like, tozando and e-bogu... (or eguchi and e-bogu)...

[nonamehandle]

Is it just me, or does the older kote have more padding on the fist and thumb?


yeah, i noticed the thinner padding on the thumb too.

double checked. the old one seems slightly puffed, but mainly due to the angle of the picture taken, the contrast in color, and the stretching of the leather on the palm part. i squeezed both of the kotes to see if there is a difference and there didn't seem to be any.

[j.noh]

Hey nonamehandle,

Just for clarification. I suppose it sounds funny that I'd complain about "too much deer hair", but when you put a sehyun kote next to a Japanese made Kote, the Sehyun set looks way bigger around the fist portion. So I guess it's not a bad thing, but then again you may not need that much. The whole purpose of having deer hair filling is because the hairs break down (snap in half over and over again) and conform to your hand from what I've been told. Comparing my old and new set, I think it may be too early to tell, but I think i'm slowly coming to the realization that bogu is bogu. Of course it's nice to have a hand made set with a bamboo do, but if it's made correctly, it should protect you against strikes.

Nice looking Kote by the way. If I were you I'd really check out Samshin, they were really helpful and nice when I was in Seoul. I plan on buying a new handmade set in a couple of years as a reward to myself, but they are really high on my list along with moribudo. Next time i'm in Korea (maybe next winter) I'd like to know a few people in Seoul to take me around to practice. Best of luck.