prewar aggressive practices?

[Esben]

Hello

I just got my hands on a book that describes how postwar Kendo was "...reformulated with new rules that forbade some of the more aggressive prewar practices such as throws and chokes".

What exactly were those practices? I'm having difficulty imagining kendoka throwing their shinais at each other and immedietly after jump trying to recover it, only to throw the shinai again. Hehe would be a pretty sight.

Anyone know what kind of practices the book is refering to?

Thanks :-)

[neko kenshi]

I think it was refering to throwing eachother, not the shinai. I imagine it as kendo with a bit of judo or something mixed in. In a few old videos I've seen, a lot of foot sweeps were used too.

[Berserker]

Try searching for a thread that I started called : OLD KENDO VID... Or something in that line...


Im sure you will get a good idea! I hope...

Cheers

[Berserker]

Nevermind... Found it for you!

OLD video clip (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17010&highlight=kendo+video)


:D

[Esben]

Thanks for the link :-)

Looks less elegant but must be pretty difficult

[Moose]

Has anyone got any video of pre war kendo? ( Kendo-You Asked for it was filmed in 1952)

[Berserker]

Has anyone got any video of pre war kendo? ( Kendo-You Asked for it was filmed in 1952)



O.k, do you use foor sweeps in kendo today?
That was a video clip that shows some foot sweeps - thats why I added it...

Sorry, I don't have anything better!

:D

[Moose]

I only asked because I was wondering if the "you asked for it" clip (1952) was a sort of half way house between pre war kendo and todays.

[Berserker]

I only asked because I was wondering if the "you asked for it" clip (1952) was a sort of half way house between pre war kendo and todays.

To be honost, that is as close to the old style kendo as I have seen... But it must have changed even before 1952... Good point...:)

[ne0r]

I have one (if the description is right) from 1940:
click me (http://youtube.com/watch?v=itIVkoHA_vA&feature=related)

Interestingly I have spotted no foot-sweeps or whatever. What doesn't mean that they haven't been practised those days.

[Maku-san]

Ho-leee cow! :eek:

Now THAT (foot sweeps) is one thing I'm glad we don't do anymore! It would be kinda hard going back to work on Monday with bruises all the way up to my bawtucks and having to explain to the boss why I can't sit at my desk. :emb:

"Sorry, Mr. Boss, but I got my butt kicked this weekend" does NOT constitute a viable "sick day" excuse! :smiley:

[hl1978]

Ho-leee cow! :eek:

Now THAT (foot sweeps) is one thing I'm glad we don't do anymore! It would be kinda hard going back to work on Monday with bruises all the way up to my bawtucks and having to explain to the boss why I can't sit at my desk. :emb:


While I have never trained anywhere that does footsweeps (though several in my dojo would go for it), I am in the minority that finds them appealing, probably because I have them done to me in other martial arts.

If you do any sport/MA with a decent amount of contact your body will adjust and you start to bruise less. Perhaps one develops a thicker skin? I guess one could look into the basis behind some of the iron body training to figure out why.

[Lady_Kitsune]

My eye probably is not that expert yet, but from what I saw, even when there is a lot that it does not exist in kendo anymore I still can see in today's kendo the old pre war kendo in so many ways. Thank you for posting this vids, was pretty intresting

[Yonshakujo]

Hello

I just got my hands on a book that describes how postwar Kendo was "...reformulated with new rules that forbade some of the more aggressive prewar practices such as throws and chokes".

What exactly were those practices? I'm having difficulty imagining kendoka throwing their shinais at each other and immedietly after jump trying to recover it, only to throw the shinai again. Hehe would be a pretty sight.

Anyone know what kind of practices the book is refering to?

Thanks :-)

I've been told, in Japan, that prewar, one of the rules was that if you could take your opponent's men, end of story. And some dojo practiced footsweeps, too.

[ben]

I believe that while foot-sweeps and chokes were sanctioned (encouraged) in pre-war kendo, they weren't allowed in pre-war kendo competition. The focus in shiai was still yuko-datotsu. Matches were ippon-shobu, no time limit and no shiaijo.

It should be noted however that "pre-War" kendo refers to kendo of the early Showa era. It had a lot to do with nationalistic fervour and preparing for war. The kendo prior to that (Taisho era), was most probably different again.

I think there's the unspoken idea that "pre-war kendo" refers to all kendo that came before the war, going right back to the sword ban. I don't think this is an accurate assumption.

b

[Frogish]

They teach pre-war kendo at the Japanese culture center here in Chicago. I haven't been there to train, but I plan on it someday... someday :P

[Anonymous]

I'd be a little leery of that, who are the instructors?

[Frogish]

I believe that Ken Pitchford teaches the class.
http://japaneseculturecenter.com/kendo.shtml

[Kenzan]

It sounds to me as of the person who wrote that intro

Does not really understand "Modern Sports Kendo" as he calls it.

I suppose a person interested in taking such a class should include the question:

"Why?"

[hl1978]

It sounds to me as of the person who wrote that intro

Does not really understand "Modern Sports Kendo" as he calls it.

I suppose a person interested in taking such a class should include the question:

"Why?"

I am sure that people find a more "physical" kendo appealing for the same reasons that some people find full contact MMA style training appealing more so than sport point contact rules.

If the connection to the Haga brothers is legitimate (there are other threads here on that topic), I would imagine it would be quite interesting.

[Kenzan]

I am sure that people find a more "physical" kendo appealing for the same reasons that some people find full contact MMA style training appealing more so than sport point contact rules.


In my mind, this isn't really the point of Kendo.
~But to each his/her own I suppose.



If the connection to the Haga brothers is legitimate (there are other threads here on that topic), I would imagine it would be quite interesting.

I admit, I do find the concept interesting, but my question would be, assuming this is a closed organization, i.e., not a part of any wide scale or international federation; how can they test what they have learned unless they interact with a variety of other schools?

I may be quite wrong, but I get the feeling from the description, that this kind of Kendo is being advertised as something more "real" and therefore somehow more superior to currently what is officially recognized worldwide as "Kendo."
And who knows, maybe it is superior.
~ but I've known a few Sensei in my day, and generally when I see verbiage of this nature, it usually means someone may be looking at "brands" of Martial Arts rather than the art itself.

Personally, not for me.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but whenever I hear someone claiming to teach "pre war" kendo stuff I just start thinking of things like this.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=7256335


If you want "pre war" stuff just learn a legit koryu, you'd probably be better off doing that.

[Takezo]

Sorry, but whenever I hear someone claiming to teach "pre war" kendo stuff I just start thinking of things like this.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=7256335


If you want "pre war" stuff just learn a legit koryu, you'd probably be better off doing that.

Why you do this?

Its just not right. And seconded on "instead of ____, learn a koryu". Or maybe the emphasis is "legit" in general, otherwise I'd stay in the nice safe zone of solid Kendo.