Translation help for tare cover

[Chook]

Hi,

I'm gettin a tare cover soon (zekken, right?) and I need to have my name translated because I'm gettin kanji on it. Everyone else in the club owns one like it, but the only Japanese speaker in the club is never there.

My surname is Huisman, which is Dutch for "man of the house". Is this the right way to translate? Can anyone help me out here by giving me the kanji?

Thanks in advance

[Shazzanzzz]

Trust me man... If you write "Man of the house" in kanji, it'll look really stupid to Asain people who read kanji. Just write it in katakana. Just think how stupid it sounds in Englsih, it sounds 100x worse in Chinese or Japanese. I mean, would you write "man of the house" in English on the zekken?
Anyways, us asians never have a strange meaning last name like that, so, it's almost never a problem for us.
Also, when asian people translate western names, we translate it sound based, never meaning based, so, why would you wanna have it translated meaning based.
There were many threads dedicated to this issue on this forum, you should go read it.

[Anjin-san]

I'm not Japanese but I've been studying the language for a while and I know that foreign names/words are always written with a set of phonetic characters called katakana.

If it were me, I'd steer clear of the kanji, it wouldn't really make sense if Yamashita-san came to England and started calling himself Mr.Undermountain (Yama = mountain, shita = under).

Instead, I humbly advise you to use katakana for your zekken. My best guess at spelling Huisman would be (characters seperated by "/") fu/i/su/ma/n. Note that the "fu" character is actually pronounced more like "hu", but by convention it's "fu". Anyone who prints zekken would know which characters to print if you gave them that info.

rei

[xvikingx]

What's with people writing their names in kanji? It is completely stupid. Stop. The whole point of a zekken is to identify yourself while you are in bogu. Why would you write something other than your name?

[Chook]

Well hell, I don't know Japanese - I can't speak it, nor write it. I just assumed that symbols = kanji.

NOW - since that's out of the way, any ideas? Thanks to Anjin-san for the advice.

[xvikingx]

Well hell, I don't know Japanese - I can't speak it, nor write it. I just assumed that symbols = kanji.

NOW - since that's out of the way, any ideas? Thanks to Anjin-san for the advice.

Sorry, what I said was not directed at you specifically. :( Anyways, if you write your name out phonetically, I or somebody else on this forum could help you out. I would make sure you have it written down correctly so that who ever is making your zekken does not screw up. I have seen some funny mess ups.

This is what Anjin-san wrote would look like: フイスマン

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well hell, I don't know Japanese - I can't speak it, nor write it. I just assumed that symbols = kanji.
Understandable mistake on both parts. Japanese is written using three sets of characters, two phonetic and one symbolic. Katakana are phonetic characters used to spell foreign words, hiragana are phonetic characters used to spell Japanese words and kanji are symbolic characters borrowed from Chinese. Each kanji character represents a whole word or concept. Some people seem to feel the need to "translate" their name into kanji. Native Japanese speakers find this amusing.

[Raiza]

What if you have a name that, meaningwise, corresponds to a real Japanese name and you don't room to write the 8 or so katakana for it? I'd stick the romanized real name on the bottom, of course.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You make two columns of characters.

[Craig Jones]

Some people seem to feel the need to "translate" their name into kanji. Native Japanese speakers find this amusing.

When I got my zekken I was told I should have my name in Kanji (and did) as that is what is used for peoples names, but from time to time I get odd reactions from asian people because of this. Most of the time they (especially the older japanese women) react well to my name being in Kanji and that I made the effort to have it translated that way, but occasionally I receive negative reactions. Has anyone else noticed this?

[mingshi]

What's with people writing their names in kanji? It is completely stupid. Stop...
Well said. :D
As a native Chinese-speaker, I sincerely wish all foreigners understand this.

[Yowai]

Glad some foreigners also are aware of the infatuation of foreigners by the asian radical symbols. I find people who tatoo Japanese kanji like "chikara" to their arms to be the pinnacle of ridiculousness. What would be your reaction to people that have tatooed "S T R E N G T H" down the length of an arm?

Instead of writing meaningless Japanese symbols on your zekken, do something that is a thousand times more distinguishing and sew on a nazi symbol.

[hamish]

Craig,

I'm sorry, but I think you'll find that the older Japanese women react well to seeing your name in kanji as it gives them something amusing to tell their friends.

The most common reaction from anyone who trains with you will be 'Yeah, but WTF is his NAME?'

It reminds me of the woman who wanted to put some Chinese characters on a jersey she was knitting as she thought it looked cool and mysterious - but the ones she chose off a Chinese restaurant menu - 'cheap and tasty' weren't exactly appropriate!

Hamish

[amatsuda]

[QUOTE=Yowai]Glad some foreigners also are aware of the infatuation of foreigners by the asian radical symbols. I find people who tatoo Japanese kanji like "chikara" to their arms to be the pinnacle of ridiculousness. What would be your reaction to people that have tatooed "S T R E N G T H" down the length of an arm? QUOTE]

You think Chikara is bad....I've seen on one or two occasions these huge gangster types with all these jail house tattoos and tattood (sp?) tears down the eye and to top it off..... right down the middle of the back are huge Chinese Characters "DON'T TRUST ANYONE"

amatsuda

[Shazzanzzz]

Hehe. I guess people can't help it. Chinese characters look too cool. My roomate has a shirt that says "Sugar Bag" in Chinese and has all these dragons and stuff on the shirt. I mean.... Why would you write "sugar bag" on the shirt? Obviously the person who made the shirt had no idea what the Chinese words meant, or my roomate. He still thinks the characters look cool and still wears the shirt even after i told him about it... Strange...

[sminki]

Hehe. I guess people can't help it. Chinese characters look too cool. My roomate has a shirt that says "Sugar Bag" in Chinese and has all these dragons and stuff on the shirt. I mean.... Why would you write "sugar bag" on the shirt? Obviously the person who made the shirt had no idea what the Chinese words meant, or my roomate. He still thinks the characters look cool and still wears the shirt even after i told him about it... Strange...

I don't know. Chinese characters may look cool but when used to "translate" Western names on zekken, it just looks silly to me. Imagine the reverse and seeing Asian people with surname 金 showing "Gold" on their namepad or better yet, 石田 (Ishida) putting "Rockfield" on his zekken at the WKC. In my opinion, a zekken should display one's name (which IS a proper noun by the way) and people translating their western names into kanji raises too much "yah, but what IS his name?" question which Hamish had addressed.

But I guess it is a personal preference after all...

[xvikingx]

Hehe. I guess people can't help it. Chinese characters look too cool. My roomate has a shirt that says "Sugar Bag" in Chinese and has all these dragons and stuff on the shirt. I mean.... Why would you write "sugar bag" on the shirt? Obviously the person who made the shirt had no idea what the Chinese words meant, or my roomate. He still thinks the characters look cool and still wears the shirt even after i told him about it... Strange...

Same thing here in Japan though. People wear shirts with the stupidest sh!t written on it. Not to mention all the poorly name stores and restaurants. With elections coming up, the new thing is the most inappropriate use of the word manifesto.

[sminki]

Same thing here in Japan though. People wear shirts with the stupidest sh!t written on it. Not to mention all the poorly name stores and restaurants. With elections coming up, the new thing is the most inappropriate use of the word manifesto.

you might want to check out www.engrish.com

[slidercrank]

Well said. :D
As a native Chinese-speaker, I sincerely wish all foreigners understand this.
As a Chinese speaker in America, I am also inclined to agree to this. However, I can't help but wonder about the other side of this coin: what of the East Asians in the English-speaking world who choose to have a western name as the first name, instead of to use the English phonetic spelling of the names they are born with?

I notice this tendency is the most often with Chinese, followed by Koreans and then by Japanese. Perhaps the Mandarin is the most difficult one to spell phonetically with English. Chinese names just sound horrible in English. And there's a bit of racism undercurrent in all of this, as some racial insults are accompanied by mocked pronounciation of Chinese sounds. But couldn't all these justifications be equally valid when used by Westerners for using characters on the zekkens?

I'm not particularly advocating for one side or the other... just thinking out loud...

[Craig Jones]

how is translating an english name (or any foreign name) into kanji any different than translating a japanese name into english? So each kanji character represent a word or phase, so do almost all english names. For example my name 'Craig' means 'a jagged rock outcropping' (i cant remember what Jones means at the monent). When i see someones name written in english (foreign origin or otherwise) i assume it means nothing other than their name. The letters are just sounds that allow use to say their name as that individual is call. Same with Kanji. Sure my name Jones translated into Kanji has some rediculous meaning (City Luck Head - if you can make some sence out of that I love to know what it is), but the bottom line is that the sounds of those characters are MY NAME. Jo N Zu - Jones (or very close to that) and make it easier for japanese people to read my name than just having it in English. Aslo since all japanese people use kanji to write their names why is it so rediculous for a foreigner to want to do the same?

As for Yamashita why is the name Undermountain any less silly in japanese than in english? I personally know a guy with the name of Underhill... would you call him crazy for writting that on his zekken?

I hope I dont come across as being harsh or anything. I just dont understand the whole issue people seem to have with translating a foregin name into kanji. Seems to me like people think only Asian people can have 'kanji'/'traditional chinese' character names...

[slidercrank]

As a Chinese speaker in America, I am also inclined to agree to this. However, I can't help but wonder about the other side of this coin...
Upon further thinking, I think my whole argument is flawed. If a Chinese girl named Mei-Li (beautiful-exquisite) comes to America and calls herself Mary, that will be all right. It's totally not the same as if she goes around saying: "Hi! My name is Beautiful Exquisite." That will be quite ridiculous, and that's more akin to the case of Westerners translating their names into characters.

The example of Yamashita vs Undermountain. Now, without seeing the face, is it possible to know that Mr Undermountain is Japanese and not some English dude? "Mr Yamashita" leaves not doubt as to the nationality of the person. If a Chinese Mr Gao comes here, will people look at him funny when he's addressed as Mr "Tall?"

[Wark 1978]

when i asked my sensei at the junior high school in japan i work at to order me a zekken with the katakana for "prime" (pulaimu), the guy in the shop actually told him it would be better for me to have kanji. with the help of my girlfriend i tried to find some kanji.

my name in english, michael prime, does have meaning. michael meaning "Godlike" (taken from hebrew) and prime meaning "1st, best, superior quality". to put the kanji for "number 1 god" on my zekken would have been ludicrous, even though that is what it means.

maikeru is the japanese way to say and spell michael and i could have used the kanji for "forward kick" which is the same sound. it's ok but it's not my family name. the problem with pulaimu is that there is no "pu" sounding kanji so the nearest would have been "bu". bulaimu using kanji could mean "walking thunder man" or something to do with being a leper.

in the end, common sense prevailed and i got pulaimu in katakana. the main reason is because i am in japan and have very limited japanese ability i wanted to people at my dojo to know i was foreign. that, and it's my name.

xvikingx point about loan words is so true. i can't ever remember hearing the word manifesto so much in england. there is a real craze here for using english loan words particularly in computer software which can be pretty handy though. aparently though the latest craze, according to my japanese teacher, is using french words. that could be me out of a job soon then.

just one final thing. i was at the train station waiting to go to work when i saw a sign advertsing "yurigaoka country club". guess how "country" was spelled.

cheers

[midnightdawn]

I have to agree with everyone that is saying just put it in katakana.

I thought the whole point of a tare cover was to have your name (and possibly dojo) written on it, not to convey what your name actually meant.

[Neil Gendzwill]

how is translating an english name (or any foreign name) into kanji any different than translating a japanese name into english?
It isn't. English is spelled using a phonetic alphabet, and that's how you translate Japanese names: phonetically, as best you can within the limited sounds of english. Same in Japanese - you translate it phonetically, using the phonetic alphabet (katakana), as best you can within the limited sounds of Japanese.


So each kanji character represent a word or phase, so do almost all english names.
No, each english character represents a sound.


As for Yamashita why is the name Undermountain any less silly in japanese than in english? I personally know a guy with the name of Underhill... would you call him crazy for writting that on his zekken?
Yes, because if he uses the kanjii for Yamashita, Japanese people will call him Yamashita-san, not Underhill-san. His name is Underhill, not Yamashita.


Seems to me like people think only Asian people can have 'kanji'/'traditional chinese' character names...
Bingo, got it in one.

[Shazzanzzz]

how is translating an english name (or any foreign name) into kanji any different than translating a japanese name into english? So each kanji character represent a word or phase, so do almost all english names. For example my name 'Craig' means 'a jagged rock outcropping' (i cant remember what Jones means at the monent). When i see someones name written in english (foreign origin or otherwise) i assume it means nothing other than their name. The letters are just sounds that allow use to say their name as that individual is call. Same with Kanji. Sure my name Jones translated into Kanji has some rediculous meaning (City Luck Head - if you can make some sence out of that I love to know what it is), but the bottom line is that the sounds of those characters are MY NAME. Jo N Zu - Jones (or very close to that) and make it easier for japanese people to read my name than just having it in English. Aslo since all japanese people use kanji to write their names why is it so rediculous for a foreigner to want to do the same?

As for Yamashita why is the name Undermountain any less silly in japanese than in english? I personally know a guy with the name of Underhill... would you call him crazy for writting that on his zekken?

I hope I dont come across as being harsh or anything. I just dont understand the whole issue people seem to have with translating a foregin name into kanji. Seems to me like people think only Asian people can have 'kanji'/'traditional chinese' character names...

I do think it's ok if you write your name in kanji if it's sound based, not meaning based. But, that doesn't really make sense in Japanese, because they always write foreign words in katakana, no matter what it iis. So, unless you practice in Taiwan or Hong Kong or something, it is really strange to spell your name in kanji, not because it's just "FOR ASIANS ONLY", but that Japanese write foreign words in Katakana, not kanji, it's that simple. My Japanese teacher, she's Japanese, but her last name isn't Japanese (last name is Younos, doesn't sound western either...), so, she has always spelled it with Katakana, not kanji.

[Hai_hai]

Same argument, different thread.

[kendomushi]

Not all Japanese names are written in kanji, and some of the pronounciations of kanji in names is unique to names only (you don't hear that sound for that character in any other circumstance). Some are written in hiragana, a phonetic system and there is no intrinsic meaning in those cases.

[mingshi]

<rant>

The few posts before this one by the others had provided informative insight. Congrats to those who are enlightened. If you still don't get it, read mine...

First of all many many kanji are pronounced differently in Japanese and Chinese (including Mandarin and the dialectic Cantonese). There is a pattern of which character to be used in Chinese. For instance, anything starts with a B will automatically be translated to 布 (which is Fu in Japanese, Bo in Chinese)... So Bush and Blair ended up having the same first character for their last names.

Though I am pretty sure Bush is Busu and Blair is Burea in Japanese. NO KANJI for them both!! This is how katagana come into place. This is what they are for - to denote a foreign term/name. You hear the sound of it and know what it is refering to.

Once I had a long discussion with a Japanese friend about translation of country names. Take USA for example.アメリカ Amerika is what I see the most, but it can also be written as Beikoku, i.e. 米国 in Japanese Kanji, with Bei meaning Rice. Where as in Chinese the characters are 美国, Mei^3 Guo^2 in Mandarin, Mei^3 Gok^3 in Cantonese. Mei means Beauty.

I don't know how often Beikoku is used, I assume that is for shortening the character space, as I rarely see Amerika being used on newspapers (...yet to watch the TV news... if I am correct Amerika is for oral...).

In any case USA does not literally mean it is a rice-producing country, nor a beautiful country. Okay you can argue about it but why not call it a junkfood nation instead? :D


Sure my name Jones translated into Kanji has some rediculous meaning (City Luck Head - if you can make some sence out of that I love to know what it is), but the bottom line is that the sounds of those characters are MY NAME.

I just dont understand the whole issue people seem to have with translating a foregin name into kanji. Seems to me like people think only Asian people can have 'kanji'/'traditional chinese' character names...

So to answer this question, I would say, go ahead if you think us Kanji-readers are only taking the pronunciation of it. Especially in Chinese if we come across jumble-up Kanji we WILL try to read to their meaning. In many situation it is much easier to know the meaning of a Kanji than to pronounce it - mainly because many of them are iconographic, unlike English where you can pronounce amost everything by guessing from the positions of the vowels and consonants.

I am thinking of to bring my camera around Taikai and take many many photos of other people's Zekken. The working title of this project will be "World's Funniest Zekken" (not to mention some dojo names are quite entertaining as well). -- I have already spotted many interesting ones, ranging from Ikkyu to Nanadan people!!! If I really managed to do this we'll have a mini poll here! Then we will all have a laugh.

<end rant>

P.S. The "why is your name Jenny?" question didn't come up this time. Phew.

[Eldritch Knight]

As a Japanese speaker living in America, I'd have to agree that it is offensive to some Japanese if you write a foreign name using kanji. Perhaps the only time they'd let you pass on that is if you showed true respect for, deference to, and interest in their culture and only then, used the kanji as something like a poetic name, and not as an actual one.

I have an English name, and while I was living in Japan, my host mother (Japanese) gave me kanji for it based on its sounds. My zekken says my name in katakana, but my dougi has it written in kanji with furigana (something akin to a pronunciation guide). You have to keep in mind that they're very sensitive about use of Chinese characters because they're so intrinsicly valuable to the culture and the language. Using Chinese characters flippantly is not just amusing, its also mildly offensive. Even if the kendo shop guy recommends you to have the kanji on the zekken, I would reco against it if only because I understand the weight of the Japanese language to the Japanese and know the ramifications of using kanji without understanding.

[xvikingx]

As a Japanese speaker living in America, I'd have to agree that it is offensive to some Japanese if you write a foreign name using kanji. Perhaps the only time they'd let you pass on that is if you showed true respect for, deference to, and interest in their culture and only then, used the kanji as something like a poetic name, and not as an actual one.

I have an English name, and while I was living in Japan, my host mother (Japanese) gave me kanji for it based on its sounds. My zekken says my name in katakana, but my dougi has it written in kanji with furigana (something akin to a pronunciation guide). You have to keep in mind that they're very sensitive about use of Chinese characters because they're so intrinsicly valuable to the culture and the language. Using Chinese characters flippantly is not just amusing, its also mildly offensive. Even if the kendo shop guy recommends you to have the kanji on the zekken, I would reco against it if only because I understand the weight of the Japanese language to the Japanese and know the ramifications of using kanji without understanding.

I think you are going a little far by saying it is "offensive". And if it SO vauable to this society why is it that 1: so many youth cannot read read or write a lot of kanji and 2: why is gairaigo (foriegn words) slowly replacing Japanese words.

[Yowai]

I think you are going a little far by saying it is "offensive". And if it SO vauable to this society why is it that 1: so many youth cannot read read or write a lot of kanji and 2: why is gairaigo (foriegn words) slowly replacing Japanese words.

Because the "economic aid" from the US didn't necessary come free of strings. They poisoned the youths and culturally assimilated the people to create additional puppets for use in US' future aggressions...

[midnightdawn]

I am thinking of to bring my camera around Taikai and take many many photos of other people's Zekken. The working title of this project will be "World's Funniest Zekken" (not to mention some dojo names are quite entertaining as well). -- I have already spotted many interesting ones, ranging from Ikkyu to Nanadan people!!! If I really managed to do this we'll have a mini poll here! Then we will all have a laugh.



Hah, I will greatly look forward to seeing the results of this project. :laugh:

[tango]

The Southeast U.S. Kendo Federation gave zekken out a few years ago that had at the bottom our names spelled out in English (even the Japanese names) in small letters...
then there was big 'gap' in the middle of the zekken and at the top, were the four letters to abbreviate the southeast federation name in big letters.
so we got em that said:

SEUS

...would have been nice to have seen an 'F' on the end of that, rather than thinking we were playing on Dr. Seuss' kendo team... hahaha...

[xvikingx]

Because the "economic aid" from the US didn't necessary come free of strings. They poisoned the youths and culturally assimilated the people to create additional puppets for use in US' future aggressions...

You sir are an idiot.

[lwegerich]

When I got my zekken I was told I should have my name in Kanji (and did) as that is what is used for peoples names, but from time to time I get odd reactions from asian people because of this. Most of the time they (especially the older japanese women) react well to my name being in Kanji and that I made the effort to have it translated that way, but occasionally I receive negative reactions. Has anyone else noticed this?

I have my name translated in Kanji on my zekken and the reaction from japanese people is positive. They all laugh their butts off because my name in Kanji is very funny. I don't have a problem with it and made friends to a lot of people this way.

Don't take life too serious! ;)

[Eldritch Knight]

I think you are going a little far by saying it is "offensive". And if it SO vauable to this society why is it that 1: so many youth cannot read read or write a lot of kanji and 2: why is gairaigo (foriegn words) slowly replacing Japanese words.


Young people can read a lot of kanji, its simply that they're becoming lazier and losing touch with the Japanese spirit as compared to the older generation, and thus don't keep up with the kanji they needed to survive as compared to the previous generation. The media has picked up on this slack by substituting in foreign words (for a largely Westernizing generation). Its simply the downfall of Japanese civilization and has nothing to do with their pride in kanji (I blame America)

But despite this, many Japanese will take offense at use of their beloved kanji (the 30-somethings, mainly). They're young enough to have worked their butt off to memorize difficult kanji and will be quite pissed at seeing a foreigner who has barely put in an ounce of work use it to identify themselves in a Japanese sport. The 20-somethings are still a bit laid back, and the older generation are too used to foreigners screwing up their language that they're used to it and welcome any people using it.

[Tachi]

many Japanese will take offense at use of their beloved kanji

Let's not forget that kanji is CHINESE...and anyone using it, be it gwailo or nihonjin, is borrowing their "beloved" writing system.

[Eldritch Knight]

Granted. I didn't mean to exclude the Chinese (esp. since Japanese have an admiration/rivalry going on with them). However, since we're talking about a Japanese martial art, I specified.

[lwegerich]

But despite this, many Japanese will take offense at use of their beloved kanji (the 30-somethings, mainly). They're young enough to have worked their butt off to memorize difficult kanji and will be quite pissed at seeing a foreigner who has barely put in an ounce of work use it to identify themselves in a Japanese sport.

Hmm, that's odd. I very much appreciate any japanese training at our dojo who speaks some word of german. And most of them do quite well.

Why don't the people you refer to don't take a zekken with kanji on it worn by a european as a gesture of good will?

We (westerners) are all using japanese terms in Kendo. Are the people you mentioned pissed about that, too?

[mingshi]

I have my name translated in Kanji on my zekken and the reaction from japanese people is positive.
I am sure the next time I see an idiotic Kanji zekken, whether it is along the lines of Thunder Combat, Male Deer, Staying Above Waves, Horse Master, Massive Rock... I'll Juuuuuuuuuuuuuust keep being positive!!! :D


We (westerners) are all using japanese terms in Kendo. Are the people you mentioned pissed about that, too?
If you want a Kendo analogy... I would say it's like calling Men-suke at the end of a practice, or calling Seiza and expect everyone to line-up.

It's a language mis-usage... trying to put words out of context and pretending to look cool. We laugh, not at the meaning, but at the ignorance.

[Raiza]

Thank you, Lars. Thank you.

When I was in Japan and when I'm here in the multicultural milieu that is Canada, conversing to my Chinese and Japanese friends, I have never encountered any resistance whatsoever when I explain what my name means and be able to write it out in 2 simple kanji/Chinese characters. I mean dead-simple, like Rockwell. Many are surprised to know that names in the Western world (I can't speak for any other places, sorry) can have meanings that illustrate concepts just like Chinese or Japanese. The response I get is "Hey, that's really neat!" because not only have I taken the time to research the kanji/Chinese characters, I have shown that, despite our geographic and cultural origins, we're not so different after all.

It's about building bridges between people. That's it.

If you want to read my last name in 8 katakana, it's written down my hakama. The roman alphabetized name is on the bottom of my zekken. Does using kanji/Chinese characters make me think I'm somehow Japanese or Chinese? Absolutely not.

However, I'm a bit more ambivalent to Westerners who have nothing but kanji/Chinese characters on their zekken. My knowledge of kanji/Chinese characters is elementary and I'd look pretty silly looking at their behind to figure out what their last names were spelled in the roman alphabet as they passed by.

[Yowai]

You sir are an idiot.

I may be an idiot, but my arguement is still true.
ad hominem!

[JSchmidt]

I may be an idiot, but my arguement is still true.
ad hominem!

(Thread hijack in progress)

So, the US should just have left Japan alonein it's ruins, creating several generations of poverty, social decline, most likely followed by isolation (again) and a breeding ground for ignorance and hatred similar to the MidEast?. Yeah, right.
Granted, the US almost certainly had other motives in mind than general goodwill (ie, an outpost against the growing communist trend in SE Asia), but it's certainly far better than the alternative.

Jakob

[xvikingx]

(Thread hijack in progress)

So, the US should just have left Japan alonein it's ruins, creating several generations of poverty, social decline, most likely followed by isolation (again) and a breeding ground for ignorance and hatred similar to the MidEast?. Yeah, right.
Granted, the US almost certainly had other motives in mind than general goodwill (ie, an outpost against the growing communist trend in SE Asia), but it's certainly far better than the alternative.

Jakob

Thanks, you saved me some time. :wink: How did it come to this anyway? I thought this thread was about helping was kid with his tare! :confused: Damn you trollin' bastards!

[Yowai]

(Thread hijack in progress)

So, the US should just have left Japan alonein it's ruins, creating several generations of poverty, social decline, most likely followed by isolation (again) and a breeding ground for ignorance and hatred similar to the MidEast?. Yeah, right.
Granted, the US almost certainly had other motives in mind than general goodwill (ie, an outpost against the growing communist trend in SE Asia), but it's certainly far better than the alternative.

Jakob
The US created hatred in the Mideast by paying attention to Israel so I don't follow your point. I hope your not implying that there exists ignorance and hatred outside Israel in the Mideast.

Granted, the alternative was better, considering the US have gotten nukes pointed at Japan (again) by dragging Japan into the US's ill atrocities.

[Shazzanzzz]

lol did you guys get off topic. Hehe.

Anyways, I don't how many times I can say this.... You should always write your name in katakana not because of any reasons other than that Japanese write foreign words, inlcuding names in katakana. Kendo is not Chinese, but Japanese, Chinese write foreign names in Chinese words, Japanese write foreign names in Katakana. What's so hard to grasp? I don't think it's offensive to Japanese in anyway if you write your name in Chinese, but it's just strange because they don't do that.


Quote:
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We (westerners) are all using japanese terms in Kendo. Are the people you mentioned pissed about that, too?
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Yea.... I dunno who posted this. But, if you wanna do thing like how Japanese do it, write things in JAPANESE, which is katakana in this case, not CHINESE.

[Jagaimo]

I don't know. Chinese characters may look cool but when used to "translate" Western names on zekken, it just looks silly to me. Imagine the reverse and seeing Asian people with surname 金 showing "Gold" on their namepad or better yet, 石田 (Ishida) putting "Rockfield" on his zekken at the WKC. In my opinion, a zekken should display one's name (which IS a proper noun by the way) and people translating their western names into kanji raises too much "yah, but what IS his name?" question which Hamish had addressed.

But I guess it is a personal preference after all...
I think those names are kinda cool, but I do understand your arguement.

[Yellow Savage]

how is translating an english name (or any foreign name) into kanji any different than translating a japanese name into english? So each kanji character represent a word or phase, so do almost all english names. For example my name 'Craig' means 'a jagged rock outcropping' (i cant remember what Jones means at the monent). When i see someones name written in english (foreign origin or otherwise) i assume it means nothing other than their name. The letters are just sounds that allow use to say their name as that individual is call. Same with Kanji. Sure my name Jones translated into Kanji has some rediculous meaning (City Luck Head - if you can make some sence out of that I love to know what it is), but the bottom line is that the sounds of those characters are MY NAME. Jo N Zu - Jones (or very close to that) and make it easier for japanese people to read my name than just having it in English. Aslo since all japanese people use kanji to write their names why is it so rediculous for a foreigner to want to do the same?

As for Yamashita why is the name Undermountain any less silly in japanese than in english? I personally know a guy with the name of Underhill... would you call him crazy for writting that on his zekken?

I hope I dont come across as being harsh or anything. I just dont understand the whole issue people seem to have with translating a foregin name into kanji. Seems to me like people think only Asian people can have 'kanji'/'traditional chinese' character names...

You are a typical ignorant white bread moron!!! You obviously have no understanding of how the Kanji writing system works...its not phonetically you dumb $hit so stick to your katakana!

[Eldritch Knight]

Kani have feelings, and unspeakable connotations to them that make them taboo to foreign influence. Its not something that can be explained to a person who doesn't speak Japanese - just take it as fact. I agree with the aforementioned fact that a name is a proper noun - keep it as such. If you have to use a different character set (like Japanese), use katakana only because your name is not Japanese (unless it is). Kanji is off-limits, sorry.

[Craig Jones]

fair enough, I am swayed. perhaps next time i get a zekken, i will have my name translated to katakana. It is also good to see that MOST people on this board can have a decent, intelligent conversation without the use of childish name calling and harsh language...

[Nanbanjin]

fair enough, I am swayed. perhaps next time i get a zekken, i will have my name translated to katakana. It is also good to see that MOST people on this board can have a decent, intelligent conversation without the use of childish name calling and harsh language...

If you have a Western name and want to use a phonetic "Japanese" name you are not restricted to using katakana. I think using Ateji is an acceptible alternative.

For instance, your name "Craig" is クレーグ in katakana, but you can also get almost the same phonetics using kanji. If you are going to do this you should consult a native Japanese speaker you know well. They might be able to find some kanji that have meanings that you like.

For example, Craig (クレーグ) could be written as 久麗具 You are lucky with a name like Craig because it gives you a lot of choices for cool kanji.

I heard of a guy whose surname was Hibbert who used 飛鳩 for his Japanese name.
This is pronounced Hibato in Japanese which is close enough for me and means "flying dove" in Japanese. I think this is quite clever.

My point is that if you are clever about what you are doing you can find a Japanese name that is appropriate in meaning and phonetics.

Make as many zekken with as many interesting versions of your name as you like. Wear a different one at every training session just to confuse people.
A name on you zekken is not something you need to be stuck with for life. I don't think it is good to belittle non-native English speakers for incorrect English usage, and I can only hope that Japanese and Chinese speakers show me the same lattitude when I use kanji.
Let people know who you are by the standard of your kendo. Your kendo should not get better or worse because of your zekken name.

As Shakespeare said "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

Don't get a kanji tattoo though, as this is something that you will definitely be stuck with!!!

[Nanbanjin]

This topic came up somewhere elso so I will add a reply posted there that I think is relevant.

...sorry, but Chinese characters are used phonetically.

A common example is the Japanese phonetic use of Kanji for country names.
Please refer to the following list.

仏蘭西 フランス
英吉利・英国 イギリス
独　逸 ドイツ
伊太利亜・伊太利 イタリア
瑞　西 スイス
西班牙 スペイン
葡萄牙 ポルトガル
白耳義 ベルギー
和蘭・阿蘭陀 オランダ
墺太利 オーストリア
瑞　典 スウェーデン 　
諾　威 ノルウェー 現地名：ノルゲ
芬　蘭 フィンランド 　
丁　抹 デンマーク 　
希　臘 ギリシャ 英語名：グリース
波　蘭 ポーランド
露西亜 ロシア 　
亜米利加・米国 アメリカ 　
加奈陀 カナダ 　
墨西哥 メキシコ 　
玖　馬 キューバ 　
伯剌西爾 ブラジル 　
亜爾然丁 アルゼンチン 　
智　利 チリ 　
秘　露 ペルー 　
埃　及 エジプト 　
印　度 インド 　
比律賓 フィリピン 　
蒙　古 モンゴル 英語名：モンゴリア
泰 タイ 英語名：タイランド
土耳古 トルコ 英語名：ターキ
濠太剌利・豪州 オーストラリア 　
新西蘭 ニュージーランド

I am assuming you actually have some knowledge of the Japanese language and can read the above. If you would like I will include the roman alphabet phonetics.

It is not at all uncommon for Kanji to be used in this way, in Japanese anyway, if not Chinese. This type of usage is called Ate-ji (当て字 ）

My trusty dictionary defines ate-ji as:

[/I]a phonetic equivalent, a substitute [character (kanji)]

Clearly it is OK to use Kanji to spell Western names.

Do you actually have any Japanese language qualifications to back up your prejudice?
More to the point have you ever asked a Japanese person about this.
If you are Japanese have you ever asked another Japanese person about this?

[Eldritch Knight]

Really? I've heard of ateji, but only in the sense of converting something from hiragana to kanji. I've also never seen those country name translations - only katakana. Are you sure that those names are Japanese and not Chinese?

[Nanbanjin]

Really? I've heard of ateji, but only in the sense of converting something from hiragana to kanji. I've also never seen those country name translations - only katakana. Are you sure that those names are Japanese and not Chinese?

Yes, I am sure.

The following site gives an explanation of the usage of ate-ji

http://www.jekai.org/entries/aa/00/nn/aa00nn83.htm

Admittedly you wont find too many "official" christian names in ate-ji, but my point is that the concept is not at all unusual in Japanese.
I have been given ate-ji zekken twice, once by my Japanese intructor and again by a Japanese friend. It annoys my when people who think they know everything about Japan and the Japanese language say that it is "uncool" to use ate-ji on zekken. They are in effect saying that my instructor and friend are uncool and don't know how to use the Japanese language properly.

Go to www.google.co.jp and search for 国名 and 当て字 and you will find many references to the country names I listed.

The following is one example

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~jimita/datugaku/ateji.html

Historically speaking using katakana is using ate-ji indirectly anyway, because katakana was derived from kanji, as was hiragana. The following lists the derivations.

Hiragana Katakana
安 → あ 阿 → ア
以 → い 伊 → イ
宇 → う 宇 → ウ
衣 → え 江 → エ
於 → お 於 → オ

加 → か 加 → カ
幾 → き 幾 → キ
久 → く 久 → ク
計 → け 介 → ケ
己 → こ 己 → コ

左 → さ 散 → サ
之 → し 之 → シ
寸 → す 須 → ス
世 → せ 世 → セ
曽 → そ 曽 → ソ

太 → た 多 → タ
知 → ち 千 → チ
川 → つ 川 → ツ
天 → て 天 → テ
止 → と 止 → ト

奈 → な 奈 → ナ
仁 → に 二 → ニ
奴 → ぬ 奴 → ヌ
祢 → ね 祢 → ネ
乃 → の 乃 → ノ

波 → は 八 → ハ
比 → ひ 比 → ヒ
不 → ふ 不 → フ
部 → へ 部 → ヘ
保 → ほ 保 → ホ

末 → ま 末 → マ
美 → み 三 → ミ
武 → む 牟 → ム
女 → め 女 → メ
毛 → も 毛 → モ

也 → や 也 → ヤ
由 → ゆ 由 → ユ
与 → よ 与 → ヨ

良 → ら 良 → ラ
利 → り 利 → リ
留 → る 流 → ル
礼 → れ 礼 → レ
呂 → ろ 呂 → ロ

和 → わ 和 → ワ
遠 → を 乎 → ヲ
无 → ん 尓 → ン

Maybe there are Japanese people out there who think that Kanji names for us whiteboys is uncool, but I haven't met any yet.
I have had suggestions that a better kanji name could have been chosen for me, but the concept of a kanji name itself seems perfectly acceptable.

[Kirin]

I wonder why chinsese speaking ppl are oppose to this topic.....

They are the ones using 'ateji' for longest time of period.
They use tons of 'ateji' in their newspaper and all other printings.

Like Nanbanji said, they use ateji in country names, persons' names...etc

[Eldritch Knight]

Maybe there are Japanese people out there who think that Kanji names for us whiteboys is uncool, but I haven't met any yet.
I have had suggestions that a better kanji name could have been chosen for me, but the concept of a kanji name itself seems perfectly acceptable.


That post was definetely interesting. Learn something everyday... However, I've yet to meet a Japanese who finds it acceptable for a non-Japanese to use kanji to represent their name. In all official documents and writings, displayed names, company names, etc. they use katakana.

[AlexM]

Those kanji versions of country names were apparently designed in for use in the media mostly. It had to do with the amount of characters printed in newspapers. For instance: フランス (France) turned into to 仏蘭西, which then could be further reduced to just 仏 . Thus saving a whole lot of space in print. Maybe the same can be said for saving space on a zekken.

My opinion is that you should have a legible zekken. Legible for wherever you live of course. I noticed that the team USA and Canada guys, despite having Japanese names, all had zekken written in romaji (of course, they all have many extra zekken apparently). Kanji for foreign names is just so... strange and confusing.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I noticed that the team USA and Canada guys, despite having Japanese names, all had zekken written in romaji (of course, they all have many extra zekken apparently).

I believe that IKF rules for worlds require that competitors be identified by name and country in romaji. Even the Japanese team has romaji along the bottom. You can see this in the pictures on the official site.

I'm going to agree to disagree and bow out of this debate now.

[mingshi]

For instance: フランス (France) turned into to 仏蘭西, which then could be further reduced to just 仏 . Thus saving a whole lot of space in print...
Save space, yes. Correct use, no. :p

You know the Kanji of Fu in Furansu is is the Kanji for Buddha right?

The first Kanji in the "Kanji translation" for Germany means "lone/single"...

and that's the whole agrument about. The chinese characters work a lot with association rather than singlar interpretation.

[Nanbanjin]

Save space, yes. Correct use, no. :p

You know the Kanji of Fu in Furansu is is the Kanji for Buddha right?

The first Kanji in the "Kanji translation" for Germany means "lone/single"...

and that's the whole agrument about. The chinese characters work a lot with association rather than singlar interpretation.
Mingshi,

I really think that the problem here is that the way Chinese people view kanji is different from how Japanese view kanji.
The following is a translation of one of the many Japanese opinions I have received on the topic. I am sure you will find it interesting....
Will include the original Japanese first.

************************************************** ***
************************************************** ***

そんなことありませんよ。中国では外国人の名前も全部漢字表記です。新聞、テレビなどでも
、例えばロシアの大統領プーチンさんは“普京”、アメリカのブッシュさんは“布什”、前
大統領のクリントンさんだったら“克林敦”というふうに。ただしこれらはそれぞれの名前を
中国語読みで当てたものですが。とにかく中国人は命名の名人で、外国から来た物には、原音
に近い音の漢字や、もともとの意味を漢字で置き換えて中国語化しています。そして、これが
正式な名称として登記されたり、新聞やテレビ報道でもごく当たり前に使用されています。
・・・と、いうことで、漢字を使用することに関しては、常識的に考えて、むしろ何ら問題ない
と思いますよ。中国人ってその辺はとても柔軟にしかも賢く思考できる民族なんです。
また、これを日本に置き換えれば、外国の方の姓名を日本語読みの漢字に置き換えることも
決しておかしなことではありませんね。小泉八雲（ラフガデイオ・ハーン）のように完全に
日本名を名乗る手もありますが、ご自分の両親がつけてくれた大切な名前の音声を残しながら
ご自分が情熱をかけて打ち込まれている剣道の国、日本の文字をそれに当てたからといって、
おかしなことだとは思いません。むしろ親しみを覚えますね。
ただし、国際大会等、ゼッケン等に定めが有る場合はそれに従うべきことは言うまでもありません 。

That's not true (that Chinese people are against the use on kanji for western names).
In China names for foreign people are all expressed in Kanji. In newspapers and on the television, for example President Putin of Rusia's name is expressed as "普京", America's Bush becomes "布什", former President Clinton becomes "克林敦"
etc. However in this case the Chinese reading of the character is used. Anyway, Chinese people are famous for making up names, and they use kanji to change words from overseas into Chinese language using both the sound of the characters and also using kanji that express the meaning of the object. This name is registered as the correct name, and is used as something normal in newspapers and television.
So, if you think about it rationally I think there is really is no problem with using kanji (on your zekken).Chinese are a people who are both flexible and clever in this regard.
Also, applying this to Japanese it is not at all strange to use kanji with Japanese readings for names of foreigners. As is the case for 小泉八雲 (Lafcadio Hearn) you can even change your name to a completely Japanese name, and thus while retaining the pronounciation of the name that your parents gave to you while usng Japanese characters. I do not think it is strange for you to represent your name using Japanese kanji which are from the country where the kendo that you are dilligently practicing came from. Doing this moreover helps create a feeling of friendship.

************************************************** *******
************************************************** *******

The above is from a flesh and blood Japanese person.
The problem I have in accepting arguments against using kanji on zekken is that it is often argued that Japanese people are against this type of usage.
This assertion shows the same kind of ignorance that your are accusing us kanji users of. This is what gets on my nerves. The use of kanji per se is something I don't really care that much one way or the other.

The above quote is from a Japanese person.
I hope a Japanese person makes a post for the against argument, or that someone can translate the opinion of a Japanese person as I have done.
Then we will know that some Japansese people are for and some Japanese people are against kanji zekken.
I have a few more real Japanese opinions on this subject to translate if needed.
I enjoy constructive argument so please, argue constructively.

[Kirin]

Nanbanjin -

I am all with you.

However you should consent or refer where you got the quote from.
(I know exactly where you got it hehe Mr. the Don :silly: )
...and I dont know if you intentionaly omited last line, but here goes :

ただし、国際大会等、ゼッケン等に定めが有る場合はそれに従うべきことは言うまでもありません
However in international match or tournament with zekken regulations, you should (must) obey the rule.

as Neil Gendzwill said, there are IKF regulation about zekken.
- Name of country or your organization on top ( horizontal left to right)
- Surname (vertical top to bottom)
- if more than one same surname in the team, one first name letter or intitial on bottom right of surname
(some countries use country flag at center and alpha surname at bottom)
- Surname in alphabet at bottom (horizontal left to right)

[Nanbanjin]

Nanbanjin -

I am all with you.

However you should consent or refer where you got the quote from.
(I know exactly where you got it hehe Mr. the Don :silly: )
...and I dont know if you intentionaly omited last line, but here goes :

ただし、国際大会等、ゼッケン等に定めが有る場合はそれに従うべきことは言うまでもありません
However in international match or tournament with zekken regulations, you should (must) obey the rule.

as Neil Gendzwill said, there are IKF regulation about zekken.
- Name of country or your organization on top ( horizontal left to right)
- Surname (vertical top to bottom)
- if more than one same surname in the team, one first name letter or intitial on bottom right of surname
(some countries use country flag at center and alpha surname at bottom)
- Surname in alphabet at bottom (horizontal left to right)
I agree with this. I think that Japanse players also have to have their names in the Roman alphabet for the World Championships.
If I ever make the World Championships I will certainly get a new zekken made up.

Even for local matches you are meant to wear zekken that display your surname, not your last name, so my zekken is not appropriate for local comps either.

I have made many references to Ichinikai in my posts. I didn't include a link here because I was afraid of inappropriate posts being made to that site.
If you would like I will include the whole thread in Japanese here.
The World Championships argument is not the only one that comes up. But in this case my main concern is to do with the "appropriate" use of the Japanese language and from a linguistic point of view people seem fine with the whole thing.

I agree that "The Don" is a silly handle. It was intended as a tribute to the late Don Bradman, the greatest sports person the world has ever seen (statistically speaking anyway).
If I could turn back time I would choose Gilchrist ( ギルクリスト ) after Adam Girchrist.

What's your handle on Ichinikai?

[Shazzanzzz]

hmm.... Interesting posts by Nanbanjin. But, from what i understand from my Japanese teacher and japanese friends are that Japanese people always use katakana for all western names. You can write it in kanji, but, they just usually don't do that, so, it'll seem strange to them. I think it's kinda because they wouldn't know if it's meaning based or sound based, and using katakana gets rid of that confusion.

I think i've said it before, i think it's alright if it's in kanji and sound based, because meaning based sometimes get your really rediculous stuff. But, if I'm riight that Japanese write all western words in katakana, then, everyone should follow that and write it in katakana.

But, even if you must have kanji, don't write something like "number one god" or "man of the house." It's a little rediculous.

[Nanbanjin]

hmm.... Interesting posts by Nanbanjin. But, from what i understand from my Japanese teacher and japanese friends are that Japanese people always use katakana for all western names. You can write it in kanji, but, they just usually don't do that, so, it'll seem strange to them. I think it's kinda because they wouldn't know if it's meaning based or sound based, and using katakana gets rid of that confusion.

I think i've said it before, i think it's alright if it's in kanji and sound based, because meaning based sometimes get your really rediculous stuff. But, if I'm riight that Japanese write all western words in katakana, then, everyone should follow that and write it in katakana.

But, even if you must have kanji, don't write something like "number one god" or "man of the house." It's a little rediculous.
To Shazzanzzz,

Good work. Go out and ask people if you are unsure of something.
Learn. If you end up having a different opinion to me, let me know. Then I will go out and check my facts and get back to you. Maybe we will end up at the same point eventually.

In regards to the zekken thing I have come the the following conclusion.

1. I have lost the zekken my instructor first gave me so I will have to order a new one using the same kanji.
2. At my current dojo I will continue to use the zekken I have been using for the last seven years. I have checked with my current instructor and he doesn't have a problem with this. Everyone at my club knows who I am so the zekken I use here doesn't really matter much.
3. I need a zekken for competitions so I will order one that is in line with competition regulations in Australia. I think the regulations are as follow.

Dojo name in white horizontal lettering.
Surname written vertically in the centre.
First name written across the bottom in white roman alphabet characters

Unless the regulations specify otherwise I will use kanji for the dojo name, and yes KATAKANA for the surname.
I will avoid the use of kanji for my own name as it obviously upsets some non-Japanese people (as well as some people of possible Japanese descent like Yowai).
I am willing to go out of my way not to upset people even if their getting upset does not seem rational to me.
I will use this last zekken for competitions and seminars.
If you ever train at the my dojo you will probably have to put up with my kanji zekken. Sorry.
I will also use my kanji zekken in Japan because people there don't seem to have a proplem with it.

[Shazzanzzz]

If you ever train at the my dojo you will probably have to put up with my kanji zekken. Sorry.
I will also use my kanji zekken in Japan because people there don't seem to have a proplem with it.

I think you're a little different case than most of the other people on this forum. You seem like you've earned your right to use kanji if you want to. Because, it's obvious you understand the japanese language very well. What make people mad is when some people who has no idea about Japanese culture or the kanji, but, wants to use kanji just because it looks cooler, and come up with the most ridiculous names. I think it also solidifies your right to use your name in kanji, 花束, isn't it? if your sensei (assuming him Japanese or at least asian) gave it to you. It's actually disrespectful, i think, if you don't wear it.

Being Chinese and all, i really don't have any problem against westerners using Chinese characters for their names, preferable sound based. And, frankly, most Japanese people i know don't really care either. But, many times, they see the kanji, but have no idea what it says, because sometimes it's really complicated Chinese words.

[Nanbanjin]

I think you're a little different case than most of the other people on this forum. You seem like you've earned your right to use kanji if you want to. Because, it's obvious you understand the japanese language very well. What make people mad is when some people who has no idea about Japanese culture or the kanji, but, wants to use kanji just because it looks cooler, and come up with the most ridiculous names. I think it also solidifies your right to use your name in kanji, 花束, isn't it? if your sensei (assuming him Japanese or at least asian) gave it to you. It's actually disrespectful, i think, if you don't wear it.

Being Chinese and all, i really don't have any problem against westerners using Chinese characters for their names, preferable sound based. And, frankly, most Japanese people i know don't really care either. But, many times, they see the kanji, but have no idea what it says, because sometimes it's really complicated Chinese words.
"花束" is no good. Japanese people usually use phonetic based kanji.
I don't want Japansese people to call me "Mr. Bunch of Flowers" anyway.
There are also examples of people with a completely Japanese name who still read it with the originaly pronounciation (albeit the Japanified pronounciation) as was the case for 小泉八雲 (Lafcadio Hearn).

I am not sure I would say I have "earned the right" to wear a kanji zekken. I just happened to have a few Japanese acquaintances who wanted me to use kanji.

Character choice is can be a matter of taste for Japanese people as well.
For instance the guy who thought up my second kanji zekken didn't like the kanji my fisrt sensei used.
I was speaking with a lady who gave the example of someone called Claude. A Japanese person had chosen 倉戸 for this guy and she thought this was a silly name ( かわいそうな名前 ). He had gone out and not only made a japanese seal with this name, but had also registered their name with the local authorities. Apparently you can only register your name once in Japan so this guy was stuck.
She said that if only he had used the kanji 蔵人, which is a valid Japanese name with the same phonetic reading and thus the obvious choice, he could have saved himself some embarrassment.

So if you are going to get kanji on your zekken you should probably ask for a few opinions. Like you said, don't just go out and use the first macho looking kanji you find in the dictionary.

Anyway, for the sake of convenience and world peace, I am still thinking of going with a katakana zekken with Romaji for seminars. No disrespect to my Japanese instructor and friend intended.

[clin61285]

Hi, I think this topic is a great one for clearing up any misunderstandings, but I have a different question. Please forgive me if my Japanese is off, I'm still learning.

I'm Chinese, and my last name is 林, pronounced LIN, and it means forest or woods.

In Japanese, I believe the same kanji is pronounced hayan, which also means forest or woods. The word 森林, pronounced SHINRIN, also means forest or woods, I think my character for my name takes the RIN pronunciation, the closest phonetic pronunciation of LIN.

Judging by the way this topic is going, though, and seeing as how my name is a non-Japanese name, I should probably spell my name out in katakana リン, "RIN".

But I'm still curious... is there a precedent for using the same character in Chinese and Japanese? Or will this just cause a bunch of embarrassing confusion? (i.e., people calling me "Hayan-san?")

[Musha]

Hi Clin,

I think 林　is absolutely fine for your Tare. But it is really pronounced (Hayashi) not (hayan) and also (Rin) in Japanese. If your name is Lin, then Rin almost sounds like Lin in a Japanese accent so you are lucky that it does not even need to be changed like say the ng in Ling where the Ng is N in Japanese like Honkon vs Honkong.

But if you are really worried do like I did

Club at the top
Last Name/Kanji name
Last name in Katakana at the bottom :wink:.

[slidercrank]

I'm Chinese, and my last name is 林, pronounced LIN, and it means forest or woods.


If you have a Chinese character for your last name, why use Katakana to spell out its pronounciation? Katakana is for people who spell their names in Roman alphabets.

If your club name tag use Enlish as well, then use "Lin" instead of "Rin." English part of the name tag is supposed to say how your name is pronounced in English. If your club name tag also has a place for kanji or katakana, then of course use your name's kanji character.