Kiai-ing

[bobdonny]

I have a woman in my class that is shy and wont Kiai. She wont even "say" the name of the target when she hits.

Has anyone had any experience similar to this?

Or has anyone any advice on trying to coax it out of her?

She has passed the 5 week intro course and is now in with the full class, which has maybe compounded the issue.

Thanks.

[miss kitty]

hi
i started kendo about 3 weeks ago and i was very shy about kiai.
we had a woman from another club come to pratice, after general pratice
she sparred with our sensei, she was great and her kiai was very powerfull and loud.
watching her gave me the courage to try and kiai louder.

sorry for any bad spelling or incorrect terms :laugh:

[imouto]

I feel silly for suggesting anything given that I've only trained four times in kendo. I don't want to step on any toes or anything.

But what I found of great use was a kiai workshop that was help by a couple of kendokas from my club after a beginners training course. I did have a kiai but I have to admit it was much weaker than what it is now. It was just a group of people who wanted to work on their kiais away from the main group. I didn't think I was affected by the main group but it turns out I was a bit intimidated.

Now I'll kiai every hit unless I'm so engrossed in getting the technique right and I forget which is embarrassing when my sensei is the live target so to speak.

[bobdonny]

excellent advice on both counts, thank ye very much ;)

[babayaga]

I have a woman in my class that is shy and wont Kiai. She wont even "say" the name of the target when she hits.

Speaking as a student, not a teacher:

I've just started atarashii naginata, and I'm having a very hard time with kiai. We don't do it as a rule in judo, and we absolutely don't kiai in my branch of iaido, so kiai is something new for me.

I don't know what's going to help me with kiai when we're just doing cutting exercises up and down the floor. I'm very self-conscious, don't like to shout, have very good breath control anyway, and am too busy trying to move correctly. And I'm not doing a real strike yet (because I'm still learning basics) and the kiai just is not connected. It's fake.

When I actually started to do paired work, though -- then I didn't have nearly so much trouble with kiai. Then it helped me remember where to stop and it's more integrated.

Have you asked her why she's having a hard time with it?

I would make sure she understands why to kiai when doing paired work, but as far as solo work goes, is there a reason why you can't let her work into it?

[absenteekendoka]

It just takes time. Some people are meek, others are just very self concious about "screaming" around other people. Seen it before, and just nurture them along as best you can. Can be a few weeks or a few monthe for some, but people find it on their own over time.

[nodachi]

I would say to remind her that she needs to kiai louder, but don't be pushy because that sometimes makes people feel like they are being singled out and they quit. You could suggest that a loud kiai is needed if she plans on passing an exam or doing well in shiai and hopefully that will help to encourage her to gradually up her volume if those are important to her.

And it is good for someone to make an announcement to everyone in the club to kiai louder during warm ups and suburi. It makes it sound like everyone needs to work on it and not just her. Then when everyone is being loud, it will be more comfortable for the shy ones to get louder too.

[Lady_Kitsune]

Give her some time, is the only thing i can say. never had a problem myself but I even saw men on my class who has the same problem, just need more time. In the meantime you can incourage her telling her come on kiai, I can't hear you... Things like that. Usualy works.

[turboyoshi]

I have a woman in my class that is shy and wont Kiai. She wont even "say" the name of the target when she hits.

Has anyone had any experience similar to this?

Or has anyone any advice on trying to coax it out of her?

She has passed the 5 week intro course and is now in with the full class, which has maybe compounded the issue.


I 2nd the "give her time" comment. There's a young woman in my class who is also like this, hardly makes a sound and she started when I did, last September. She's getting better though, just slowly gaining the confidence to do these things.

I also had a difficult time with kiai, and started a thread on it some time back. Now I hardly even think about it.
I can't remember who mentioned practicing in the car while driving but I do that sometimes and it seems to help get rid of some of that nervousness/shyness too.

sean

[rottunpunk]

i agree with the give it some time point
if you try and force the issue it will only make things work

perhaps point out that she wont score any points if theres no shout though

its not only women that can be shy about kai-ing
satsumaruma had us doing a breathing exercise in iai the other week
the two newish ones were very quiet, and they are big grown men

the first time i did it at a seminar i felt so self concious
but as soon as you realise that everyone else sounds the same its easy to get used to

are there any other females in the club that can encourage her?
if not you could show here some videos of female kendoka

good luck
:p

[bobdonny]

are there any other females in the club that can encourage her?
if not you could show here some videos of female kendoka


Ya thats another problem, my wife is the only other female but she wont be training for the next few months as she is 4 months pregnant. So there is no other women to learn from or to feel more comfortable with...

[Lady_Kitsune]

Ya thats another problem, my wife is the only other female but she wont be training for the next few months as she is 4 months pregnant. So there is no other women to learn from or to feel more comfortable with...


Maybe your wife should go as a teacher to make her feel comfy. I don't mean your wife has to practice, but maybe just showing up on the dojo will make this girl better towards kiai and kendo.

[Codex]

I also agree that it takes time. If I were in this student's shoes, I'd prefer to be allowed the time to get used to the concept without being reminded that my kiai is too soft, etc. That would probably make me more self-conscious, since I'd already know that my kiai is too wimpy, but now I'd know that you're listening and judging. But the idea of a general class reminder sounds good to me (if it's a large class).

I used to find it pretty strange to hear kiai as the more advanced (iaido) students ran through the toho. And when I had to start doing it ... it was one of the most uncomfortable things, and remained that way for a while. Then, in one of the classes, it just happened that there weren't any more junior students than myself, and everyone ended up doing toho for half the practice time. That's when I finally let my inhibitions go. Now, I'm perfectly fine kiai-ing, even if no one around me is doing so. I remember getting too enthusiastic once and attacking the floor during maegiri ....

[Hook]

i can sympathize with the student girl.

i am about to start pursuing kendo lessons and i admit that it is the kiai which has kept me away from pursuing studies in kendo sooner. part of why i studied chinese long fist for so long was because we never yelled, we just moved. my voice is very low for a woman and is so low that people often mistake me for a man when i am talking, even if they are standing right in front of me. some people have even refused to believe that i am a woman just because of my voice, thinking instead that i must just be a very convincing drag queen. it does not help that i am very much a tomboi and rough around the edges. because of this i tend to pitch my voice up a little higher than i like and i tend to speak more quietly than i prefer but i do not really like doing that and definitely cannot do it when i am shouting. it is embarassing and i am very nervous about that first kiai moment. having said that, if i can get over the fear of sounding that damned masculine then i could end up having a very threatening kiai for the same reasons it embarasses me.

so yeah.

i definitely can relate.

[bobdonny]

well after the beginner class she came back for about 3 weeks, the longer she left it the harder it was to kiai... then she stopped coming back.

I guess some things just arent meant for people no matter how hard you try to help them.

[Martch]

Same thing happened at our dojo recently. A guy in his 30s with some aikido experience had one kendo lesson and had such a huge block over kiai that he really didn't think it was for him, but he might try iaido. I said that would be fine, but suggested it might be interesting for him to do enough kendo to get him to the point where he was comfortable with kiai. After all, if you find something difficult that's what you need to confront. I hope he does come back but we've yet to see what he decides. He really did have a big thing about 'shouting', even watching the yudansha doing keikari geiko had him in shock.

[mugen no junin]

I feel silly for suggesting anything given that I've only trained four times in kendo. I don't want to step on any toes or anything.

But what I found of great use was a kiai workshop that was help by a couple of kendokas from my club after a beginners training course. I did have a kiai but I have to admit it was much weaker than what it is now. It was just a group of people who wanted to work on their kiais away from the main group. I didn't think I was affected by the main group but it turns out I was a bit intimidated.

Now I'll kiai every hit unless I'm so engrossed in getting the technique right and I forget which is embarrassing when my sensei is the live target so to speak.


a little OT...what type of exercises did you practise during this workshop? could you explain a little?
thanks in advance :smiley:

[ergo]

hi-

i'm new to this forum, and have had some recent experiences related to this topic.

as i'm 6 months pregnant, i've been mostly working with beginners at the dojo the past few months. i've encountered quiet kiai and no-kiai types, and found a couple of tactics that seem to work well.

we have beginners and senior students practicing separately, but in the same room. when we start working on kiai, i tell the beginner/s that i need to hear them over the kiais coming from their sempai. if they still need to be louder, i then tell them i want the sempai to be able to hear the beginners' kiais. or, i'll have them do a single men, and follow through with correct suri-ashi across the floor, kiai-ing all the way. i will do the exercise myself right next to a quiet beginner, to encourage them, and repeat the exercise until i'm satisfied that they have made some progress. between motivation to impress the sempai and motivation to end the repetition of an onerous exercise, i seem to get an increase in decibles from everyone.

the card i've held in reserve, for the impossible case (and haven't had to use yet) is to work on kiai only. no swing, no footwork, just stand in chudan and kiai. if any one has tried this, i'd be interested to find out if it helped.

[Kenzan]

ya Thats Another Problem, My Wife Is The Only Other Female But She Wont Be Training For The Next Few Months As She Is 4 Months Pregnant.

congratulations!!! You old Fox you!






I wish your wife and the Postman all the happiness in the world.


:D

[tango]

I have a woman in my class that is shy and wont Kiai. She wont even "say" the name of the target when she hits.

Has anyone had any experience similar to this?

every female we've had come through our doors has started out like that.


Or has anyone any advice on trying to coax it out of her?


1. just continual encouragement
2. hopefully you have other females in class that are using some voice and then they can maybe get encouraged by that

[tango]

on a side note, i personally try to be as gentle as possible in encouraging them with something like, "i realize you might be a little embarassed to use your voice, but actually, you stick out more by NOT using your voice...."

sometimes it works.

[dwez]

I always say as a beginner kiai is the only thing they can get right pretty much. I still can't tell if it works. We had some real improvement in kiai after Ozawa Sensei's visit last year. But that was a byproduct of better breathing exercises and holding your kiai for 2, 3 and 4 cuts.

[bobdonny]

well, the beginner introductary classes were in a seperate hall so as provide non distracting teaching - so they couldn't hear their sempei kiai.

It was a beginner class of 6 so unfortunately no other women.

Thanks for your input ergo and good luck with the pregnancy, your about as far along as my missus, lets post and compare pics a little after the day :)

My postman is in fact a woman.... which sounds good until you see and meet her :)

In hindsight I should not have tried anything different with her, any extra help from me (regardless of my intention) only alienated her further in my opinion.

Best to do it with the class as a whole and in the end if she get it great.

My bad.

[Alison2805]

Dont feel bad about it, if she couldnt even SAY the target, I doubt she would have stuck with it anyway.
I had one big old lovely guy help out when I was a beginner. When I was too embaressed to kiai he would stand in front of me and scream this rediculous kiai until I kiaied back. It was the only way to make him stop. Worked for me...
Our sensei also made each person kiai 10 each during hiyasuburi, with everyone else silent. If you werent loud enough everyone had to do it again. That forced people to do it properly.

[emitbrownne]

Our sensei also made each person kiai 10 each during hiyasuburi, with everyone else silent. If you werent loud enough everyone had to do it again. That forced people to do it properly.

We do this for the whole suburi.. and if beginners are in the group, we ask everyone to shout in English. That way the beginners dont need to worry about saying the wrong thing (hopefully they can count to ten).The lack of understanding Japanese has been a quoted reason for no kiai by one beginner

As for Kiai when striking, again we use numbers or just shouting a noise, as beginners will often get befuddled with the terminology.

[imouto]

a little OT...what type of exercises did you practise during this workshop? could you explain a little?
thanks in advance :smiley:

There was just a general yelling exercise.

Then there was girls vs boys. Nothing like the battle of the sexes though you really want to pick the right bunch of students for this otherwise it can backfire badly.

Then there was the kohais vs senpais, as in who was louder.

Then there's the perennial favourite of where one person counts to ten in Japanese for haiyasaburi. And if you're not loud enough, repeat. Again, pick your beginners carefully. I think some senpais out there are unaware or forget that some people are afraid of public speaking and to some people, a kiai is equivalent to public speaking.

But you know, this is all moot point for me. I've just recently lost my kiai.

[Neil Gendzwill]

the card i've held in reserve, for the impossible case (and haven't had to use yet) is to work on kiai only. no swing, no footwork, just stand in chudan and kiai. if any one has tried this, i'd be interested to find out if it helped.We haven't done that, but we use what my sensei calls "kiai exercise". Stand with feet shoulder width apart or wider. Raise the shinai up to jodan and at the same time come up onto the balls of the feet. Pause for a bit, then swing up and out, it should feel like throwing away the shinai, and drop the body down into a partial squat. Not too far down - at most, the thighs could be parallel with the floor but shallower is just fine. Keep the back straight.

The breathing is just like shin-kokyu, ie breath in on the upswing, stop at the top and then out on the cut. Kiai is "ay", rhyme with "say". It's a Canadian drill, eh.

For whatever reason, everyone is good and loud with this drill. I think it's the combination of the body and swing mechanics, the simplified kiai, and the fact that everyone is told this is a "kiai exercise", so the goal is clear. We usually only do 10 repetitions.

We also do the count by yourself thing, but in a little different way. We are warming up in a circle, and each person counts to 10 as we go around the circle. While they are counting, everyone else is still saying "men". The goal is to have the counter be loud enough to be heard over the group.

[babayaga]

hi-

i'm new to this forum

Welcome!


the card i've held in reserve, for the impossible case (and haven't had to use yet) is to work on kiai only. no swing, no footwork, just stand in chudan and kiai. if any one has tried this, i'd be interested to find out if it helped.

Just FYI: If someone told me to do that, I would bow off the deck, leave, and never come back.

I'm not a quitter, but I came hardwired with a brain that makes social situations difficult to negotiate. A certain subset of your quiet folks will have the same difficulties, and this is absolutely the wrong way to handle it. I'd concentrate on building up another area of confidence, and put the kiai on the back burner. What's the rush?

[babayaga]

We also do the count by yourself thing, but in a little different way. We are warming up in a circle, and each person counts to 10 as we go around the circle. While they are counting, everyone else is still saying "men". The goal is to have the counter be loud enough to be heard over the group.

That sounds like a great way to get an introvert used to being loud in a group.

[Persona]

Kiai-ing is one of the things I've been worrying about myself, I'm not exactly that vocal and I'm a little social phobic, my sister joked if the house was on fire I wouldn't shout for help.

I have to agree standing in a line and Kiai-ing would be the most mortifying thing for someone like me who isn't used to shouting in public.

[Inner_Silence]

i wish your wife and the postman all the happiness in the world.


:d

hahahahahahaha!!!!! Lol!!!!

[ratdeau]

With shy people I ask motodachi to shout louder and longer than them. Like that they can try without to ear their voice too much.
I also explain that we do really notice when there isn't kiai, but we do not stress them to much. Everthing come in time.

[Hyarion]

A few cents:

Kiai is pretty hard, especially for self conscious people, and people who have never yelled before in their lives (me). What got me, and the group of beginners I was in, through was:

Just standing and yelling (from the stomach, not the throat) as hard as we could. I always thought it would have been better if every one had been told to close their eyes.

Noticing that if you don't have any kiai you stick out. Badly.

Noticing that everyone else (sempai) does it.

Noticing that it is actually useful. It's a bit of a rush when you first realise that kiai can really pump you up and lessen your fear.

[imouto]

This is going to be a dumb question but I always forget to ask after training or during. I swear sometimes my brain leaves me in a huff when I arrive at the dojo.

Is it okay to have a range of different kiais?

[Hisham]

As long as you don't use the PIKACHUUUUUUUU kiai then testing different sounds is ok IMHO.

[rcheung135]

If you heard your opponent pull a funny kiai, would you laugh?

I'd laugh to intimidate the other person, then teach the guy how to do a REAL kiai. RAWR!

[JByrd]

This is going to be a dumb question but I always forget to ask after training or during. I swear sometimes my brain leaves me in a huff when I arrive at the dojo.

Is it okay to have a range of different kiais?

I would suggest that it isn't so important what vowel/consonant sound you make, as long as it isn't completely silly. What is important is how you produce your yell, and the way it makes you feel. The goal is to build your energy, and concentrate it in the right place.

There are lots of posts in this forum about how to kiai. In summary, produce the sound by pushing out air from deep down in the belly. Try not to constrict your throat. If the kiai is scratchy or screechy sounding, it often means the throat is too tight. Try to sound a clear, piercing, note. My sensei has cautioned me to avoid letting the note gradually fall off in pitch and volume, it sounds weak to trail off in that way. Again, the goal is to build energy and focus it in the right place, not to dissipate it.

Once you finish yelling and refill your lungs, you should feel energy in the form of muscle tautness in your lower abdomen and hips. The chest, shoulders, and arms should be relaxed. If, at the end of your yell, your arms and shoulders are still tense, it means you didn't manage to kiai correctly. Try again! We can't make a fast, powerful, strike unless we start with our energy in the right place.

Once you understand the purpose, and the effect you should get, the sound you make is really up to you (except in kata, where "yah," and "toh," are customary).

[decalcomanie]

the card i've held in reserve, for the impossible case (and haven't had to use yet) is to work on kiai only. no swing, no footwork, just stand in chudan and kiai. if any one has tried this, i'd be interested to find out if it helped.

One of our senpai had us do this. That day we had very few beginners (6) and we happened to be standing in order of kiai-loudness. The two super loud guys on one end made the super shy three on the other end sound pretty bad (haha I happened to be right in the middle), so our senpai told us to stand in chudan and kiai. Subsequently, he told the two loud ones to shush and made the rest of us kiai until we improved slightly. As a person with a high tolerance for mortification, I was only mildly uncomfortable, but I could tell the three shy ones wanted to crawl in a hole....

I think an easier way to do it might be to space the loud folks out among the shy ones and then inform the class that everybody's kiai is too weak. Then maybe proceed with unending suburi until kiai is satisfactory? (or for evil version, endless hayasuburi) In my opinion, having an enthusiastic person next to me and the frustration with endless suburi would eventually draw out a louder kiai even if I'm shy.

[IronWarrior]

I wish there was more training for Kiai, at first I was pretty shy about doing it and to me it sounded too much of a Warcry like you see in Full Metal Jacket, but it's becoming or sounding more Japanese to me now, it's tone is different, I would like it to be a lot louder through, very loud. :P

[ShinKenshi]

I wish there was more training for Kiai, at first I was pretty shy about doing it and to me it sounded too much of a Warcry like you see in Full Metal Jacket, but it's becoming or sounding more Japanese to me now, it's tone is different, I would like it to be a lot louder through, very loud. :PTry this.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaoPNiWnHPs

Use your diaphragm rather than your throat to project your kiai. If you have any friends who are classically trained singers, ask them how they project their voice. If you're hoarse by the end of practice then you're doing it wrong.

This may also be of help.

http://www.kendo-guide.com/KendoGuideCom_Newsletter-kendo_newsletter_017.html

[aboli]

What really helped me was the advanced kendokas who shout much louder and longer than you do. But what could be useful too is alsways smiling, so that she feels at ease and confident, and also suggesting you shout at the same time (1-2-3-SHOUT!) which is fun and easier too =)

Hope all goes well !

[alta]

I'm a kumdo girl but I'd like to weigh in on this. I'm guilty of pitiful kihap and it's something I really struggle with. For me it is a confidence issue. I just can't get over how unnatural it feels to scream my head off at somebody who is a billion times better than me and follow up my primal yell with really ill-performed kumdo. In my head I know the power of my kihap should not and is not at all proportional to my actual skill in kumdo. However, I find that kumdo requires so much of me physically and mentally that I very quickly fall back into default mode which is quiet kihap.

These are some things that have helped:

1) Some people will do the following exercise with me: They kihap and I kihap after them but louder. At first, they kiai relatively quietly and progressively get louder and, obviously, I do the same.

2) Understanding. My weak kihap seems to bother lower ranking students more than the higher ranking people. My "kwanjangnim", for example, intuitively understands that I am not really choosing to defy him or disrespect kumdo... but it is truly a deeply rooted issue that will work itself out with time. He kindly reminds me that my kihap is not powerful enough but does not make me feel ashamed or embarrassed.

3) Competition. Kwanjangnim made me compete in a tournament and now I know why. At first it seemed completely ridiculous. I am very, very low level. I expected to be out within seconds but I hung in there and realized I might have a change at scoring. At one point (I suppose the other girl was very quiet too) one of the judges stopped us and said we were both hitting legit points but they were not counting because we were too quiet. I screamed my head off, scored son-mok and maintained, what I felt, was a natural kihap for the rest of the match. Also, I notice in practice that a more natural kihap seems to emerge when I'm sparring with people at my own level.

Here is what hasn't helped me:

1) Frustration. I was practicing with a mid-level, non black belt. I was doing kihap but, clearly it was too quiet for him. (It was my first week or two in armor. Kihap was the least of my problems.) He looked at me with disgust and was like, "You realize kihap is not optional, right?" This just made me feel like poo. I understand his frustration but... not so helpful.

2) Putting me on the spot. A very well meaning visiting instructor made me do the exercise I mentioned BUT... he made me do it when everybody else was quiet (I have no idea what they were doing) and he told me what to say. Of course I did it, but only out of respect to him. It really just made me uncomfortable and did not particularly help me develop my kihap.

A

[jjcruiser]

This somewhat old thread has been good to read. I'm glad it was brought back from the dead. Lately I have struggled with feeling like my kiai is getting weaker despite my trying to be louder, and I'm frequently hoarse after class. Some good ideas in here.

[ShinKenshi]

1) Some people will do the following exercise with me: They kihap and I kihap after them but louder. At first, they kiai relatively quietly and progressively get louder and, obviously, I do the same.This is something I do with my kohai if I feel their kiai could be much louder and more powerful, especially during jigeiko (sparring). I'll stop, tell them that whenever someone gives a strong kiai, they have to do one better. We separate and I'll kiai at them and if I don't feel they've responded with a good, strong one, I'll kiai again but louder and longer. This usually causes them to get pretty close to matching mine.


2) Understanding. My weak kihap seems to bother lower ranking students more than the higher ranking people. My "kwanjangnim", for example, intuitively understands that I am not really choosing to defy him or disrespect kumdo... but it is truly a deeply rooted issue that will work itself out with time. He kindly reminds me that my kihap is not powerful enough but does not make me feel ashamed or embarrassed.This is how reminders should be given.


3) Competition. Kwanjangnim made me compete in a tournament and now I know why. At first it seemed completely ridiculous. I am very, very low level. I expected to be out within seconds but I hung in there and realized I might have a change at scoring. At one point (I suppose the other girl was very quiet too) one of the judges stopped us and said we were both hitting legit points but they were not counting because we were too quiet. I screamed my head off, scored son-mok and maintained, what I felt, was a natural kihap for the rest of the match. Also, I notice in practice that a more natural kihap seems to emerge when I'm sparring with people at my own level.The more you spar, the more natural it will become.


Here is what hasn't helped me:

1) Frustration. I was practicing with a mid-level, non black belt. I was doing kihap but, clearly it was too quiet for him. (It was my first week or two in armor. Kihap was the least of my problems.) He looked at me with disgust and was like, "You realize kihap is not optional, right?" This just made me feel like poo. I understand his frustration but... not so helpful.Consider the source. If he wasn't dan level yet, then it isn't his place to doll out advice.


2) Putting me on the spot. A very well meaning visiting instructor made me do the exercise I mentioned BUT... he made me do it when everybody else was quiet (I have no idea what they were doing) and he told me what to say. Of course I did it, but only out of respect to him. It really just made me uncomfortable and did not particularly help me develop my kihap.Unfortunately there will be times where you'll have to be on the spot and the only one making noise. Occasionally we'll form lines and practice a couple hundred men strikes and normally two or three senior members will count while every one else kiai's but lately my sensei has started choosing lower level individuals to do the counting. This is to get them used to being on their own and more often than not, it translates to better kiai later on.

Here's something that may help you as well. If where you train you have someone leading warm ups and the rest of you count as a group, try counting as loud as you can. I was taught early on that counting during warm ups is a perfect time to practice your kiai. Of course you won't be doing the same kind as while you're sparring, but it helps you get used to projecting your voice. Eventually you'll be able to produce kiai so loud and powerful you'll hear it echoing off the walls (if you're in a dojo that's conducive to echos that is).

[RC_Kenshi]

Here's something that may help you as well. If where you train you have someone leading warm ups and the rest of you count as a group, try counting as loud as you can. I was taught early on that counting during warm ups is a perfect time to practice your kiai. Of course you won't be doing the same kind as while you're sparring, but it helps you get used to projecting your voice. Eventually you'll be able to produce kiai so loud and powerful you'll hear it echoing off the walls (if you're in a dojo that's conducive to echos that is).

This.

A few years ago we got a new young kenshi, with a very quiet (some might say pitiful) kiai. After months of encouragement one of our sensei tried something new during warmups. Instead of having the senior non-sensei present lead the warmup, he had our young kenshi lead them. At first it was so difficult to hear him that the only way I knew what to do was because we have been doing the same warmups in the same order ever since I joined the dojo. But you know what? Eventually his kiai got louder and stronger. Now it is quite presentable. Could still be better, but far better than he was. In fact, it worked so well, I'm thinking of trying out the same thing with some other newbies that could use the help.

Of course, you could always practice it the way I used to . . . trying to out-kiai my Harley Davidson on the open road . . . at least until that day the bug . . . well, never mind.

RC_Kenshi