Why women wear white?

[Lady_Kitsune]

This question appeard on a facebook group and all the sudden I'm curious, why white? What is the philosophical, theological or nonsensical reason why women wear white and not another colour??????

Just an aside note: I'm not asking if women should wear it or not, my question is why women wear it as a tradition

[Roberto]

Men do wear white too

[chainz]

men wear white when are go-dan or above or high rank sensei

[imnothere]

Mainly of tradition - men wear indigo/blue while women wear white.

Personally, I think because white is the cheapest form of dye. Another word, the men are too stingy to spend money for their daughters/wives?... or maybe they just don't want to spend money that would end up with the female members of the family start beating up the males.:smiley:

[samurai80]

men wear white when are go-dan or above or high rank sensei

I was told something similar, but then the guys from Japan would occasionaly wear white, stating them as "summer gi". I don't see any rule enforced on this, though...I mean, I don't really have a problem with it, but you see a lot of mudansha wearing them. I'll stick with indigo either way. The question still remains. "Why do women wear white?".

[imnothere]

I strongly suspect its the calvinistic attitude in the by-gone age. or mainly just the cost.

remember that daughters are considered to be a liability - so they probably wont spend too much money = cheapest dyed cloth = white.

refer to search in this forum, some people allegedly that American failed to banned kendo and tried to reduce the popularity by having kendoka wearing white. (doesnt work obviously, so thats why alot of people wear white as well)

white in asian culture is a colour of death, of mourning, and of shame(cowardice? white flag?). white could also be used as a colour of inferiority (http://kendo.wikispaces.com/Clothes), or perhaps indigo/blue reflects the more solemn side of kendo, or maybe even that it reflect those of modesty of the kendoka.

[aloe]

white also means purity. Virgin girls beating guys with a stick??
different colored uniforms tell you more about the person whose face you cant see. Dont want a guy beating down a girl or a naturally tall child.

[imnothere]

you just can't really mistake a girl for a guy - you can still see the face through the men and from the high-pitched kiai.

but you are right, it is just for the ease of separeting the male/female for the sensei (who are probably 70 y/o+ and has bad eyesights). after a while it become tradition and noone want to change.

[Fred27]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIxt3Zd6K0k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIxt3Zd6K0k)

It takes style & dignity to get away with all-white :):

http://www.egreenway.com/taichichuan/images/staff67.gif

[Oroshi]

you just can't really mistake a girl for a guy - you can still see the face through the men and from the high-pitched kiai.

but you are right, it is just for the ease of separeting the male/female for the sensei (who are probably 70 y/o+ and has bad eyesights). after a while it become tradition and noone want to change.

Both men and women wear white. My iaido sempai (Japanese) also teaches kendo and he often wears white. I think it's become popular with girls because many of them like how it looks, rather than for any deeper reason.

White kimono are traditionally associated with shinto priests (Kannushi) and the colour represents purity and cleanliness in traditional Japanese culture. I have heard that the colour was popularised in kendo by Nakayama Hakudo and his students. Nakayama sensei was particularly keen on links between shinto and martial arts.

White is also the colour of summer keikogi, at least in iaido. However not everyone follows this reasoning, and some just stick to black all the time.

In certain koryu white is the colour of choice. Hoki-ryu students usually wear white, in my experience. This may be linked to the fact that the imperial guards traditionally wore white. Pure speculation there! I know there are some Hoki-ryu students here so I might be corrected shortly.

[bobdonny]

my wife liked the colour....

[MikeW]

It's interesting how one simple question is asked and pretty much all the replies are" Well I think it's probably..." Does anyone have an actual, based in fact reason that is definite as opposed "well I heard from a second cousin that once knew a guy that lived next to...."

[D'Artagnan]

hmm... I have never actually found an answer to this question.Although both sexes can wear white, and not just dougi and hakama, I know there are a couple of high level (male) sensei in Japan that even have white bougu.

However, What I do find intriguing is that at the Gyokuryuki High School Taikai (annually held in Fukuoka), all of the girls teams HAVE to wear white dougi and hakama. I don't know if that is the case in any other taikai or not(?). But the boys teams can (and do) wear either colour...

[rainmaker]

I have seen or told that

1) High rank sensei
2) Japense emperor Kendo (someone please confirm this ?)
3) Korean National Kendo team ( Korean think white represent pure and has been wearing this for sometime )
4) Some High school boys. ( I have seen some male teams wearing white )
5) Summer practice ( White uniforms are lighter than blue one)

However, I was told that if you are taking test(especially higher rank), you should wear blue uniforms.
Please correct me if any of these are wrong.

[samurai80]

I have seen or told that

1) High rank sensei
2) Japense emperor Kendo (someone please confirm this ?)
3) Korean National Kendo team ( Korean think white represent pure and has been wearing this for sometime )
4) Some High school boys. ( I have seen some male teams wearing white )
5) Summer practice ( White uniforms are lighter than blue one)

However, I was told that if you are taking test(especially higher rank), you should wear blue uniforms.
Please correct me if any of these are wrong.

Yep. These are all the things that I heard.

The question still stands for KW. "Why do women wear white?".

[rainmaker]

Isn't it personal or team's preference ?? They don't have to wear white. I don't think it is tradition either.


Yep. These are all the things that I heard.

The question still stands for KW. "Why do women wear white?".

[mkomoto]

From the viewpoint of a bogu seller, one certain reason is that (most) women are more sensitive about smelly keiko-gi, and maybe about stinking the place up in general, and wash their keiko-gi far more often than men. Both real aizome keiko-gi and synthetic dyed keiko-gi fade and loose their color with repeated water-only washings, and lose it in just a couple of washings if employing laundry soap. Also, even a well-worn washed (and even more so, bleached) white keiko-gi will maintain the appearance of being newer and cleaner than a moderately worn aizome keiko-gi.

[Lady_Kitsune]

From the viewpoint of a bogu seller, one certain reason is that (most) women are more sensitive about smelly keiko-gi, and maybe about stinking the place up in general, and wash their keiko-gi far more often than men. Both real aizome keiko-gi and synthetic dyed keiko-gi fade and loose their color with repeated water-only washings, and lose it in just a couple of washings if employing laundry soap. Also, even a well-worn washed (and even more so, bleached) white keiko-gi will maintain the appearance of being newer and cleaner than a moderately worn aizome keiko-gi.


So you think is just a practical reason?

[mkomoto]

Just one of many possible reasons. It is a practical concern and may be in combination with the other factors that have been forwarded by others in this thread.

[imouto]

From the viewpoint of a bogu seller, one certain reason is that (most) women are more sensitive about smelly keiko-gi, and maybe about stinking the place up in general, and wash their keiko-gi far more often than men. Both real aizome keiko-gi and synthetic dyed keiko-gi fade and loose their color with repeated water-only washings, and lose it in just a couple of washings if employing laundry soap. Also, even a well-worn washed (and even more so, bleached) white keiko-gi will maintain the appearance of being newer and cleaner than a moderately worn aizome keiko-gi.

Why does this post come after I get a blue keiko-gi and hakama???

Why did my brain not think of this reason when ordering???

It so would make washing a much less soon to be traumatic process.

[aloe]

getting smurfed and wearing smelly gi might be a traditional thing.
But why cant we be modern and use polyester/cotton blend, which fades little and washes with your other clothes?

[stephanie dee]

I wear white because I like it.

And my whites are white!!!! :)

[Inner_Silence]

And my whites are white!!!! :)

whatty?
:ponder::ponder:

[Neil Gendzwill]

getting smurfed and wearing smelly gi might be a traditional thing.
But why cant we be modern and use polyester/cotton blend, which fades little and washes with your other clothes?Because it looks like crap?

[samurai80]

Yeh, I'm not big on cleaning out my washing machine every time I wash something kendo-related, but keikogi, and hakama would look stupid if they were polyesther. No offense (seriously) to those who wear the tetron hakama (my sensei does, and so does another yondan Japanese-female at my club) but those look corny too.

P.S. They only wear tetron to practice, but never at tournaments, or testing.

[Henry Jones Jnr]

I wear white now and then too. I had a grading coming up so into the washing machine, went my hakama and Gi, both of which are made of that very heavy cotton. Unfortunately I had failed to check that machine. I then proceeded to pull out my very clean but inappropriate ly coloured hakama and gi ....... in a lovely shade of pink plus my flatmate's RED panties. Like I said I had a grading the next day.....:eek:

[Exia00]

I wear white now and then too. I had a grading coming up so into the washing machine, went my hakama and Gi, both of which are made of that very heavy cotton. Unfortunately I had failed to check that machine. I then proceeded to pull out my very clean but inappropriate ly coloured hakama and gi ....... in a lovely shade of pink plus my flatmate's RED panties. Like I said I had a grading the next day.....:eek:
Lol. omg.


how embarassing. hahah. :O

[imnothere]

I wear white now and then too. I had a grading coming up so into the washing machine, went my hakama and Gi, both of which are made of that very heavy cotton. Unfortunately I had failed to check that machine. I then proceeded to pull out my very clean but inappropriate ly coloured hakama and gi ....... in a lovely shade of pink plus my flatmate's RED panties. Like I said I had a grading the next day.....:eek:

my commiseration to you. i guess the lovely pink doesn't fit the colour of your eyes...

so what happened then? did you goto the grading or did you pretend that you were sick that day?

[kendojive]

because there so pure

[stephanie dee]

because there so pure

Exactly!!!!:laugh:

[Miravil]

I wear white now and then too. I had a grading coming up so into the washing machine, went my hakama and Gi, both of which are made of that very heavy cotton. Unfortunately I had failed to check that machine. I then proceeded to pull out my very clean but inappropriate ly coloured hakama and gi ....... in a lovely shade of pink plus my flatmate's RED panties. Like I said I had a grading the next day.....:eek:

Ladies, this is a good excuse for getting a pink hakama and gi. What do you think :D

[Henry Jones Jnr]

Actually there is a wonderful product on the market called Dye Run remover.
(Highly original name ...yeah I know). The next day all white, bright and shiny, I proceeded with confidence to do my ni dan. As a lovely gentleman who shall remain nameless broke his toe.....literally ( it was hanging there, eeeewwwwwww), yours truely had to deal with it as I was a first aider at the time. Of course I failed but only just. The judging panel were very symphathetic.

[Miravil]

As a lovely gentleman who shall remain nameless broke his toe.....literally ( it was hanging there, eeeewwwwwww), yours truely had to deal with it as I was a first aider at the time. Of course I failed but only just. The judging panel were very symphathetic.

Ouch... Hope no blood stain on your hakama instead. :p

[Henry Jones Jnr]

No way man!. Thats why I have a blood red do. Mind you, with my red and white get up, I did feel rather like a nurse coming to attend said guy with hanging toe. I'm just glad they had heaps of ice.

[Inner_Silence]

most women wear white because white represents cleanliness.. and they want to look clean even after a wild and kinky nights with their sex toy...

_____________________


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

WHATTY??

btw I cheked your website, not very much my style, talk to KENZAN he might be interested....

[bobdonny]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

WHATTY??

btw I cheked your website, not very much my style, talk to KENZAN he might be interested....


You do realise that quoting spam and links to spam makes forums very difficult to moderate, you should email Neil/alex and ask them to remove the link from your quote.

[Inner_Silence]

you are right, I didnt think it that way...
anyway at first I touhgt that she selled carbon fiber shinais....

[Persona]

I read white also represents death in Japan, but I would probably guess it means purity.

[Inner_Silence]

I read white also represents death in Japan, but I would probably guess it means purity.

yes.
as far as I know white represents knowledge, thats why the first grade in karate is white, and the shodan is black, its supossed that in shodan you realize that you know nothing of your art and you start learning...

in kendo I really dont know if its this way, Ive heard that old senseis use white, also girls. but I dont know the reason. personally I dont like the navy blue so I use black gear (even thou Im not supposed to use black) and I also like white and Im thinking on buying a white gear (hakama/keikogi) but only becouse I like the looks of it, I really dont know the whole story. maybe is something "just becouse"

[imouto]

I really dont know the whole story. maybe is something "just becouse"

There's one thing I do know about kendo. "Just because" isn't a reason to do things.

[Badtz-Maru]

I have no clue why women tend to wear white. I have heard a lot of things, but nothing definitive.

I like white though. I like women in white clothes and white Bogu. I used to have a white Gi and Hakama set for myself, but I loan it out now. I might get me a new set from the new Winbogu.

I actually wore an all white track suit at the Nationals. I did it to show how serious I was about my role and I was easy to spot. White is just a nice clean and cool color I think.

[NigelSponge]

Kinda a little theory i have:
I've heard white is supposed to represent no fear, because if you bleed it shows easily, so its like saying "your not gonna make me bleed, so i can wear my freshest threads =D" Which is i guess why generally only high ranking men wear it (not the case these days of course =P ) And I imagine in the early stages of women doing kendo, they were seen as being weak, so to show their strength, courage, etc. they wore the no fear color.

[rcheung135]

Bright lights + whiteness = awesome delicious

[Alison2805]

Kinda a little theory i have:
I've heard white is supposed to represent no fear..

oooh, I like that reason!! Im going to quote that from now on when people ask!

Seriously though, I thought white represented the fact that you were smart enough to use a washing machine... hence why no aussie men wear it.. :laugh:

[Suiken]

It is not a small simple questions that can be answered in one sentence. Anyone wearing white might have an own individual reason or even more than one. A lot of possible reasons have been named here. I would also like to add corporate identity. When I visited the Gyokuryuki in 2004 there was a complete team (males) wearing white because it was the colour of the team.
Perhaps sometimes there is even no real reason but for "I saw it and I liked it". Just I feel, it not very 男らしく but others might think differently.

[cidergeorge]

Our sensei likes all kyu grades in our dojo to wear white as do high schools in Japan I believe. The colour mirrors our level of knowledge and ability of females and males.

[samurai80]

I don't want to jump to conclusions here, but that comes off kinda...sexist sounding. Or maybe wrong sounding. If I'm off for saying so, I apoligize in advance.

[samurai80]

The colour mirrors our level of knowledge and ability of females and males. This is what I'm refering to.

[Kent Enfield]

Our sensei likes all kyu grades in our dojo to wear white as do high schools in Japan I believe. The colour mirrors our level of knowledge and ability of females and males.
I'm going to guess you've not been to Japan then. Some schools have everyone wear blue, some have everyone wear white, and some have boys wear blue and girls wear white. I've not come across one where what one wears is determined by rank, not that anyone would be in high school and a mudansha for long.

[Jordan Lavin]

Personally...I don't think is a real defiant or at least single answer to the question. But if I were you and I wanted to know badly. I'd just go up and start asking women "why do you wear white?" But I'm consider odd anyway so you probably shouldn't listen to me.

[SamuelRiv]

We've got many women in our dojo at the moment, and we're testing out onlinekendo.com as a possible equipment vendor in addition to e-bogu. All-white and all-indigo are the same price at onlinekendo, so I told the female beginners that they should consider getting all-white as it would be easier to clean, but will also squarely mark them as female. I also said I might get an all-white uniform for myself for practice for the easy-clean reason.

But this question is important - what should I as their sempai and equipment manager be recommending (unfortunately we don't have a sensei in the club - the yudansha basically take up officer roles and try to do what they know best, hence my job)? Should I even give them a choice or just order them blue unless they specifically request otherwise? Is it fair for them to have such variety in uniform choice, or to mark their sex so clearly to everyone, in a dojo? I'm just wondering, because if a beginner guy requested all-white I think I'd give him a stern talking-to.

[Kent Enfield]

I told the female beginners that they should consider getting all-white as it would be easier to clean, but will also squarely mark them as female. I also said I might get an all-white uniform for myself for practice for the easy-clean reason.
I have to wonder if you've read this thread. There are men who wear white. It's entirely dependent on dojo fashion. And easier to clean? White uniforms are a lot higher maintenance than indigo, unless you want them to become white with blue highlights.


But this question is important - what should I as their sempai and equipment manager be recommending (unfortunately we don't have a sensei in the club - the yudansha basically take up officer roles and try to do what they know best, hence my job)? Should I even give them a choice or just order them blue unless they specifically request otherwise?
This is just something you as a dojo need to decide. Decide what colors are acceptable then tell people.


Is it fair for them to have such variety in uniform choice, or to mark their sex so clearly to everyone, in a dojo?
This is the second time you've mentioned marking gender. Are the women in your dojo really that hard to tell from men if you don't color code them? :eek:

[Knicky]

Are the women in your dojo really that hard to tell from men if you don't color code them? :eek:

I laughed.

[Big One]

I agree that women should wear pure white, like an angel you know? That is when they are moving in like an angel and hit me on the head, I don't feel so bad and still dreaming afterward. You have no idea what is my feeling when an angel sliding in with a smile, ka-ponk Meeeeeennnnnn, then disappear. What's a sensational floating feeling. It is way better than dope men.:laugh:

[Neil Gendzwill]

Should I even give them a choice or just order them blue unless they specifically request otherwise?We give them a choice, as white is a traditional option for women. We have very seldom had women choose white - most of them want the same gear as the guys.

[SamuelRiv]

Just so we're clear, I have a problem with the idea of gender-marking colors. But I don't necessarily have a problem with people making themselves stand out in the crowd, even when it comes to kendo. So what I'm doing is telling the men that all-white will make them look like an ass (though just a white gi isn't quite as bad, right?) and the women that white will make them stand out and gender-mark them. All such cases are probably something to be avoided for a beginner. On the other hand, when I see a dedicated player who's making a commitment to the sport, I feel like I should be supportive of how they want to express themselves and grow into it (to the limit of embarrassing the team and dojo, of course). This doesn't just apply to uniforms, but colored tsuba/tsuru or do or black-lined men as well.

[Azurewynn]

i just had a thought.. maybe it refers to ying and yang?
... though the colors would be mixed up...
=_= nvm

[futabachan]

Are the women in your dojo really that hard to tell from men if you don't color code them?

I don't know about others, but when someone puts their men on, I can only tell if they're male or female by reading the name on their zekken (if I know them by name) or by listening to their kiai. But why would I care? (During class, at least?)

[Alison2805]

I told the female beginners that they should consider getting all-white as it would be easier to clean, but will also squarely mark them as female. I also said I might get an all-white uniform for myself for practice for the easy-clean reason.


Obviously you have never worn white, or have never had to wash your own clothes in your life. Im guessing its more the latter...

[ReKru]

Obviously you have never worn white, or have never had to wash your own clothes in your life. Im guessing its more the latter...

I do have a white Keikogi for summer practice (although I didn't use it all that much this year, since basically we had no summer :cry: - or a 'perfect german summer', as I like to call it - 10-15 celsius with a light rain :) ).

Can just throw it into the washing machine -after every practice- with other 'heavy duty' stuff and a bit of bleach and it's much easier to keep fresh and clean than the indigo dyed stuff, that looks shabby very fast, if you wash it in the machine.
It's not as spanking brand new as I got it, but it's my 2nd oldest Gi (probably over 5 years now) and the one I use under worst conditions ('sweating like the niagara falls' situations) and for that it still looks quite ok.

I'm not really proud of wearing it - sticking out and all that - but it's a practical solution until there's indigo stuff that you can machine-wash just as easiely.

[Kenshi]

I wear white because I am an unmarried virgin.

Cant wait for the day that i'm allowed to wear indigo, like all the other cool guys and gals in my dojo.

[ReKru]

I wear white because I am an unmarried virgin.

You're sending out all the wrong signals.
You should not cut your mullet:

http://paveldanton6.googlepages.com/Gohatto19992.jpg

or wear a wig:
http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/19626.jpg

to appeal to - both genders equally. :laugh:

[Kenshi]

You should not cut your mullet

Germans talking about mullets and giving out bi-sexual love advice..... I feel like im in a movie...:chinese:

[ReKru]

Germans talking about mullets and giving out bi-sexual love advice..... I feel like im in a movie...:chinese:

The corruption began since we started sharing an office with our british colleagues.

And it's only 10 month - I wonder how far you can fall, if you -say- share an Island with them for centuries. :eek: :laugh:

[Nokori 3byo]

White doesn't strike me as being inherrently innapropriate for men. As Osakajinyan suggested earlier, though, it seems to work better in groups, to instill a sense of solidarity, elan, etc. It's still a team trademark for the Todai kendo-bu, I believe.

I'm guessing they have the skills to back up such a strong visual statement.

[Master Shake]

Obviously you have never worn white, or have never had to wash your own clothes in your life. Im guessing its more the latter...

YES! I would have to agree that people who think a white gi and hakama means an easier time in the laundry are kidding themselves (or yes, don't do their own washing).

I've had 2 sets of white gi and hakama and they do not stay white no matter what you do. (you could bleach but that weakens the fabric).

As far as the summer gi option goes, its not as if white is the only option. There are plenty of nice light weight blue gi on the market these days.

[SamuelRiv]

Alison - I've washed my own clothes since I was 10, thank you very much. For me, whites don't tend to stay bright in general utilitarian washing, but gi and hakama are either hand-washed or washed separately and gently anyway. Either way, I thought the point is not necessarily to look "shiny", but to be able to wash the stuff quickly for practices.

[kendogrl]

Yep. These are all the things that I heard.

The question still stands for KW. "Why do women wear white?".

To blind their opponents with the purest color. It's just like the concept of Orbitz gum. Nice and clean and sparkly. Cause I know not all guys wash their bogu after every practice. So it's only practical to blind them with something clean. :D

Diverting from that anwser,
I prefer not to wear white because I don't want it to be so obvious to a guy Im a girl. I would prefer for him to easily forget that fact and not go easy on me.

As to why white...Im not quite sure. I would assume it's because of the previous anwsers posted. But I have never really looked into it myself.