White Bogu + Male

[Earende]

I've looked around, white seems to be really rare and for females. So, will it be odd for a male to use it?

[D'Artagnan]

I've looked around, white seems to be really rare and for females. So, will it be odd for a male to use it?

yes,


unless you are an 8th dan?

[Kenzan]

There was a gentleman at our last Shiai who was wearing a sort of beige "natural fiber" sort of Bogu, complete with Uwagi and Hakama.
Fairly striking actually.
He also did Nito, so that may be part of his personal style.

[enkorat]

One of the senseis I know also has a white dou bogu set (the rest is blue), and has the natural fiber hakama/keikogi, which he wears on "special occasions".

It is quite cool actually. The dou is getting marked up with a lot of hits though...

At tournaments I occasionally see one or two people who are guys who wear the white/red bogu combo.

It is a bit odd...

[samurai80]

Yeh, I've seen bogu on a guy that was not died (I guess). It kinda looked hardcore...to bad the kendoka wearing it wasn't hardcore. I think there was a video (a long time ago) of some kid (18-21) that was wearing white bogu. While I think it looks cool, I've been conditioned to the unwritten rules of kendo now, so if I saw a guy in white bogu I'd hate on it pretty hard. Well...I'd hate on it if they were less than yondan, or weren't that good. Oh, and for those of you who might read this, and be offended because you have white kote or something...save it. I still think its a silly attempt to stand out from everyone else. "Well I just like it better". Tell it to the judge.

[Obulco]

There was a gentleman at our last Shiai who was wearing a sort of beige "natural fiber" sort of Bogu, complete with Uwagi and Hakama.
Fairly striking actually.
He also did Nito, so that may be part of his personal style.

Yes, I have seen this beige one. The color is similar to the natural cotton of the old Judo-gi. I have been told that some people are allergic to dyes and that is why these models are made available by some companies.

[tango]

There was one guy at the recent Cleveland event (tested for some kyu rank)...

he wore indigo hakama/keiko gi.... and white bogu (complete with red dou).

it was the most odd, out-of-place looking combination I have ever seen.

[Kenzan]

Not to be inflammatory, (and I have a fairly good understanding of why uniformity is promoted), but I'd like to read other's feelings on exactly why they are against different colored Bogu/Keikogi.
~Also, does this feeling also carry over into Tsuba/Tsuru colors?

[tango]

for the record, i don't have any problem with colored bogu or keikogi... as long as it makes sense (to me, at least).
white keikogi/blue hakama - blue bogu --- ok
white keikogi/blue hakama - white bogu -- no
white keikogi/white hakama - blue bogu --- ok
white keikogi/white hakama - white bogi -- ok
blue keikogi/blue hakama - blue bogu --- ok
blue keikogi/white hakama - no (regardless of bogu)


i have a personal problem with some combination of colors that makes me think somebody should give a guy some garanimals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garanimals) or something.

hint: indigo hakama/keikogi in combination with white bogu (red dou) looks like shite.

PS: I am not gay, and I also couldn't care less what color tsuba/tsuru colors are utilized.

[Kenzan]

i have a personal problem with some combination of colors that makes me think somebody should give a guy some garanimals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garanimals) or something.
hint: indigo hakama/keikogi in combination with white bogu (red dou) looks like shite.


So if I understand correctly, you are saying for you, it's about maintaining a standard of aesthetic quality?

[samurai80]

I still think its a silly attempt to stand out from everyone else.

Unless you have the kendo to back it up, the above is how I feel. I don't have too much of a problem with do creativity (as long as it isn't too over the top ie: flames, a dragon with a sword in his claws). I could care less about the tsuba, or the tsuru color either. When it comes to bogu...indigo or white. White should be for women, indigo should be for everybody. Same thing for gi, and hakama. I guess the more relaxed the standards are for uniforms, or bogu, the more I feel like we are distancing ourselves from kendo. I mean, why not go ahead and get Nike to sponsor your do, and get Gatorade to throw a couple of lightining bolts on your men? Yes, I know...big difference between white bogu, and sponsorship ads. My point is, it is another step closer. We let that stuff slide, and 30 years from now people will ask why we can't have white bogu with cherry blossom patterns stitched all over it. Or light-up shinai.

[tango]

So if I understand correctly, you are saying for you, it's about maintaining a standard of aesthetic quality?


yes.

and blue hakama/keikogi with white bogu looks like shite. that's not an opinion, that's just a world fact. :)

[tango]

Or light-up shinai.

oh hells, yes.. that would be cool.

then you can be on team "jedi" or team "sith" .... :)

[nikozamo]

i think white kote is fine for male use.

[R Stroud]

White kote make it hard to see the shinai strike the kote, so are a great "taikai tool".

Regarding white bogu and non-standard colors and/or uniforms, this has been beaten to near death on this forum, but I think it is worth considering that a big part of kendo is about looking correct and looking like the rest of the group. So if you are going to do kendo why try to stand out, rather why not try to stand out by being perfectly attired and perfectly in line with correct manners, etc. Sort of "an officer and a gentlemen meet the karate kid"

But if you want to dress different feel free, just don't complain if you get the cold shoulder or find shinsa to be harder for you.

WOW, I'm at 201 posts and still nothing to say...

[Gessho]

Gotta agree with samurai80 on this one. Unless you are actually good at kendo, stick to the standard kit. People who get colorful early are like artists who try to emulate Picasso before learning the basics of how to paint and draw.

And by good, I mean that you've been doing this for 20+ years and the only people who can hit you are 8th dans and Jesus.

[imnothere]

Agree. Unless you are very good, its like painting a bull-eyes on yourself... with extra flashing lights.

Kendoka is meant to be humble - hence the usual bland colours of blue and black.

[Earende]

I see lots of negative responds and it's mostly: Oh, a different gear, that one's a showoff. So I'll ask this - why are so many, so willing to choose the "He's trying to stand out" reason (Out of multiple reasons.) and where did the rule of "You must be good to wear such and such" came from? Or "if you wear that, you're not humble".

Can anyone explain clearly? Instead of simply stating "Because I said so", which makes it sounds like the issue lies with themselves rather than the one being seen as different.

[imnothere]

Gotta agree with samurai80 on this one. Unless you are actually good at kendo, stick to the standard kit. People who get colorful early are like artists who try to emulate Picasso before learning the basics of how to paint and draw.

And by good, I mean that you've been doing this for 20+ years and the only people who can hit you are 8th dans and Jesus.

I think that Gessho explained it fairly well.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I see lots of negative responds and it's mostly: Oh, a different gear, that one's a showoff. So I'll ask this - why are so many, so willing to choose the "He's trying to stand out" reason (Out of multiple reasons.) and where did the rule of "You must be good to wear such and such" came from? Or "if you wear that, you're not humble".

Can anyone explain clearly? Instead of simply stating "Because I said so", which makes it sounds like the issue lies with themselves rather than the one being seen as different.It's not a rule per se, it's just a part of the culture of kendo. Invariably the people who want to get the flash gear started kendo late and aren't Japanese. They just. don't. get it.

[Paburo]

I see lots of negative responds and it's mostly: Oh, a different gear, that one's a showoff. So I'll ask this - why are so many, so willing to choose the "He's trying to stand out" reason (Out of multiple reasons.) and where did the rule of "You must be good to wear such and such" came from? Or "if you wear that, you're not humble".

Can anyone explain clearly? Instead of simply stating "Because I said so", which makes it sounds like the issue lies with themselves rather than the one being seen as different.
lol. think of a formal event where everyone is wearing black or dark coloured tuxedos and suits and then you suddenly pop up with an 80's baby satin blue colorful tuxedo. do you really want to stand out for your poor taste in clothing and be the clown of the party? :D james bond wouldn't do it! :cool2:

[jjcruiser]

Can anyone explain clearly? Instead of simply stating "Because I said so", which makes it sounds like the issue lies with themselves rather than the one being seen as different.

I'll take a stab at it:

The principles of Kendo via AJKF via Wikipedia:

To mold the mind and body.
To cultivate a vigorous spirit,
And through correct and rigid training,
To strive for improvement in the art of Kendo.
To hold in esteem human courtesy and honor.
To associate with others with sincerity.
And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself.
This will make one be able:
To love his/her country and society.
To contribute to the development of culture
And to promote peace and prosperity among all peoples.

I don't read anything in there which is harmonious with flashy bogu.

There seems to me to be a certain buddist denial of self in most martial arts, and certainly in Kendo, that is not consonant with being individualistic and standing out through the use of non-standard equipment and attire.

Of the martial arts I've seen, it seems to me (so far) that Kendo employs the greatest degree of uniformity of them all. All the same kata, all the same waza, very few, but harmoniously-hierarchical, governing bodies. All the same strikes with very little variation. There are only five stances and only one that is regularly used. I could go on and on and others could much further. But as an answer to the question that I don't mean to be preachy, I think it just boils down to the fact that choosing a non-standard armor or keikogi suggests an individualism that is generally anathema to Kendo.

[R Stroud]

I see lots of negative responds and it's mostly: Oh, a different gear, that one's a showoff. So I'll ask this - why are so many, so willing to choose the "He's trying to stand out" reason (Out of multiple reasons.) and where did the rule of "You must be good to wear such and such" came from? Or "if you wear that, you're not humble".

Can anyone explain clearly? Instead of simply stating "Because I said so", which makes it sounds like the issue lies with themselves rather than the one being seen as different.

In Japanese culture the norm is to not stand out. You can see it clearly in Harajuku where the gang's of Harajuku Girls roam around in similar yet outrageous outfits. When I was young running around Tokyo in the 80's it was common to see a "gang" of Elvis impersonators, etc... So the whole line of reasoning to question having to fit in, and follow the norm/group is very non-Japanese. In Japan if you want to stand out from everyone else you do it in a group.

Also in the US were everyone wants to be an individual, I find it interesting that doing kendo is not unusual enough, but even within kendo there are people who want to stand out within that group.

Kendo is very Japanese. And unless it moves into a pure sports form, where competition rules the behavior of all participants, things like uniforms will be dictated by tradition. I refer all interested to the kotowaza about the nail sticking up and getting pounded back down.

If you want to do kendo you listen to the seniors to understand how to do waza, use the shinai, what the valid targets are, etc and I don't see people question this. If they don't agree, then tend to drift into kenjutsu or something else. But if you don't want to wear the standard uniform why would you question the seniors or authorities defining the standard.

What I have seen in kendo over the years is that if you just follow along for 10-15 years, then ask these kind of question again, you might not see the need to "stand out". After 10-20 years of practice, how you view the whole of kendo will certainly be much different from what you have now.

[H.Sandsleth]

Kendo is budo, the 'martial way'...not the 'I want to show the world my wardrobe way'.

[JKenshi]

lol. think of a formal event where everyone is wearing black or dark coloured tuxedos and suits and then you suddenly pop up with an 80's baby satin blue colorful tuxedo. do you really want to stand out for your poor taste in clothing and be the clown of the party? :D james bond wouldn't do it! :cool2:

Hey! I wore one of those to my prom!

Of course, that was in the 80's. :)

[MAZ77]

lol. think of a formal event where everyone is wearing black or dark coloured tuxedos and suits and then you suddenly pop up with an 80's baby satin blue colorful tuxedo. do you really want to stand out for your poor taste in clothing and be the clown of the party? :D james bond wouldn't do it! :cool2:

I dont think mr furley would have been made fun of.

[nikozamo]

al last... ''color kendo stuff'' for training and ''classic kendo stuff'' for shinsa? :D

[H.Sandsleth]

I think you should try look good both in training and in shinsa, out of respect for the dojo and the people you train with...

[absenteekendoka]

Kendo is budo, the 'martial way'...not the 'I want to show the world my wardrobe way'.

No ones mentioned squirrel suits in the dojo yet. You know how sensitive Kenzan is on the topic.... ;)

[absenteekendoka]

Unless you have the kendo to back it up, the above is how I feel. I don't have too much of a problem with do creativity (as long as it isn't too over the top ie: flames, a dragon with a sword in his claws). I could care less about the tsuba, or the tsuru color either. When it comes to bogu...indigo or white. White should be for women, indigo should be for everybody. Same thing for gi, and hakama. I guess the more relaxed the standards are for uniforms, or bogu, the more I feel like we are distancing ourselves from kendo. I mean, why not go ahead and get Nike to sponsor your do, and get Gatorade to throw a couple of lightining bolts on your men? Yes, I know...big difference between white bogu, and sponsorship ads. My point is, it is another step closer. We let that stuff slide, and 30 years from now people will ask why we can't have white bogu with cherry blossom patterns stitched all over it. Or light-up shinai.

Must spread rep................blah blah...... :)

One millllliooooon points for you sir!

[imnothere]

Squirrel-do - The Path Of The Squirrel Sword Saint.

The path for the deadliest squirrel in the history of the universe to be enlightenment on the sword path, for world domination, and to get his nuts...







:smiley:
p.s. now i really want to meet kenzen in real person.

[Theodore]

The best looking guy at a swanky restaurant is the maitre d' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%C3%AEtre_d%27) (and the reason for that is the fact that he wears a uniform). You wouldn't try to reinvent the tuxedo (and modern attempts to do so are terrible) so why try to redo the kendo uniform?

[Thunder]

The nail that stands out, gets the hammer.

I don't care for bright colors, I would prefer solid black...

[Kenzan]

:smiley:
p.s. now i really want to meet kenzen in real person.

Naturally.
:D

[Badger]

White gis are cheaper. Thats why some people buy them. I think its only a full white kendogi when a high rank.

[Maku-san]

oh hells, yes.. that would be cool.

then you can be on team "jedi" or team "sith" .... :)

*Fwshhhhh....whooooshhhhh....fwwshhhhh....whooooss hhhh*

Tango-san..... I AM YOUR FATHER!!! Join me at my dojo and we will rule Kendo World as Father & Son!!!

Darth Mark :gasmask: