Kendo in High School

[MostOriginal]

Hey everyone. I was wondering if anybody that either goes to high school or works in a high school has kendo there. I'm a junior in high school now and I've been trying to get a kendo club started, but I was told by the assistant principle to create a proposal and that he would consider it. After speaking to my english teacher about this, he told me that if any precedent has been set already it would help me out a lot. The main reason why it might not be ok is because of the physical contact.

So, does anybody have kendo at their schools? If so could you please share how long it has been there for, where you practice, if it is part of the curriculum or just an after school activity, etc. Also, any key points that I should mention in my proposal? Thanks in advance.

[Obulco]

Hey everyone. I was wondering if anybody that either goes to high school or works in a high school has kendo there. I'm a junior in high school now and I've been trying to get a kendo club started, but I was told by the assistant principle to create a proposal and that he would consider it. After speaking to my english teacher about this, he told me that if any precedent has been set already it would help me out a lot. The main reason why it might not be ok is because of the physical contact.

So, does anybody have kendo at their schools? If so could you please share how long it has been there for, where you practice, if it is part of the curriculum or just an after school activity, etc. Also, any key points that I should mention in my proposal? Thanks in advance.

I work for a high school. In the case of Kendo, I prefer to take students interested to my Kendo club which is pretty close to the school. However, I have run at my school a Judo club for the last 12 years. The main issue here was not physical contact as most sports have physical contact anyway. Having an instructor and the proper equipment was the decisive factor in allowing this club to exist.

In our case, it is not an after school activity. It is scheduled into the school day. It is a voluntary activity that students may choose among others.

[MikeW]

Cool! The only high school that has kendo that I knew of in the States is a private school (Summerlin Academy in Bartow FL) and it has kendo as a club sport similar to many of the universities that offer kendo in the States.

Be interested to see if there are other ones floating around.

[MostOriginal]

I work for a high school. In the case of Kendo, I prefer to take students interested to my Kendo club which is pretty close to the school. However, I have run at my school a Judo club for the last 12 years. The main issue here was not physical contact as most sports have physical contact anyway. Having an instructor and the proper equipment was the decisive factor in allowing this club to exist.

In our case, it is not an after school activity. It is scheduled into the school day. It is a voluntary activity that students may choose among others.

Money for equips and such isn't as big an issue as the contact in my school though. They said that since it would only be a club, not a sport (I'm guessing they mean an "official" sport like football), it wouldn't get insurance. Without insurance they really can't risk injuries.

[Kapplow]

Cool! The only high school that has kendo that I knew of in the States is a private school (Summerlin Academy in Bartow FL) and it has kendo as a club sport similar to many of the universities that offer kendo in the States.

Be interested to see if there are other ones floating around.

When I saw Maeda sensei a couple weeks ago he said the high school is building him a REAL dojo. Half kendo, half judo, suspended floors. I can't wait!

[sirius1906]

I don't know if this is a concern but how are you gonna keep the club going after you graduate? If the club is organized by students, you really have to train the junior students to be future officers as the seniors graduate.

I used to practice at a local college club. I don't know if the club is still in existence after their senior club officers left...

[MikeW]

Kapplow, that sounds great. Wish we had a better floor here to practice on.

On another note I may be at a meeting in Orlando in the Fall and if so I hope to rent a car and drive the hour down to Maeda sensei's dojo to practice. I'll see him in Aug in GA but I always like to get some practice in if I can.

*** we now return you to your regularly scheduled KW thread***

[MostOriginal]

I don't know if this is a concern but how are you gonna keep the club going after you graduate? If the club is organized by students, you really have to train the junior students to be future officers as the seniors graduate.

I used to practice at a local college club. I don't know if the club is still in existence after their senior club officers left...

I have some people in mind that could keep it going so, that's not really a concern for me right now. I need it started before anything though.

[Kapplow]

I've been driving down to visit him as much as I can. He's the most amazing sensei. If you attend you his seminars, he takes a DVD recording of the whole thing so you can see what you need to work on. I've never met a more giving, humble, person.. And funny!

Mike if you are ever in the N FL area please come pay us a visit!


Sorry. Back to thread.

[Obulco]

I have some people in mind that could keep it going so, that's not really a concern for me right now. I need it started before anything though.

I think that you need to start by having a Kendo instructor willing to support this activity. Solutions around space, equipment and even insurance can be worked out by schools, but everything has to start with the availability of responsible instruction.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you had the instructor, maybe the insurance issue could be resolved due to AUSKF's coverage.

[MostOriginal]

I could probably have one of the senseis at the dojo I go to come maybe once a week or so, but I don't really want to use up their time too much though.

Also, AUSKF will cover for the insurance if this gets started up? I thought that was only for "official" dojos, not for clubs in schools (even though it would be good for publicity).

[Neil Gendzwill]

I can't speak for AUSKF on the insurance issue, only speculate. Why wouldn't you want to register the club with the AUSKF? Maybe it could easily be done by making it a branch of your existing club or something like that.

[MostOriginal]

That's actually not a bad idea. Some of the kids from my school want to do kendo where I do it, but they can't because its decently far away. The only problem is that the dojo I go to requires $90 for 5 tickets (1 ticket for every day you go) and there are 2 practices a week. If the club was an extension, I don't know if people would want to pay anything for a school club.

[Neil Gendzwill]

So practising twice a week, you're going to be paying over $150/month? Which club is this?

[MostOriginal]

I only go once a week so like 4 times a month, but its not as bad as you'd think. At least I don't consider it bad.

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's definitely on the expensive side. What club was that, again?

[Obulco]

That's actually not a bad idea. Some of the kids from my school want to do kendo where I do it, but they can't because its decently far away. The only problem is that the dojo I go to requires $90 for 5 tickets (1 ticket for every day you go) and there are 2 practices a week. If the club was an extension, I don't know if people would want to pay anything for a school club.

That seems really expensive, but perhaps something could be arranged between your club and the school. Without that kind of support, all I can tell you is that my school would see that kind of after school club as not much more than you with your friends whacking each other with sticks. I am afraid that it would not be approved. There is a lot of good potential in your idea, but there are steps that you need to take in order to make it a reality.

[MostOriginal]

That's why I'm asking for help with this project. I need to get everything organized before I start anything.

To prevent bashing on the dojo I go to, I won't reveal the name as of now. It used to be $70 a month for twice a week, but certain complications required some changes to that. Sorry don't really want to reveal much more specifics since I really don't know the exact details either.

[Kaoru]

That's actually not a bad idea. Some of the kids from my school want to do kendo where I do it, but they can't because its decently far away. The only problem is that the dojo I go to requires $90 for 5 tickets (1 ticket for every day you go) and there are 2 practices a week. If the club was an extension, I don't know if people would want to pay anything for a school club.


That's why I'm asking for help with this project. I need to get everything organized before I start anything.

To prevent bashing on the dojo I go to, I won't reveal the name as of now. It used to be $70 a month for twice a week, but certain complications required some changes to that. Sorry don't really want to reveal much more specifics since I really don't know the exact details either.

I'd like the name of this dojo too, to be sure it's not some McDojo that is ripping you off. That's a ridiculously high fee per month for 8 practices. And, the use of tickets is strange too. Are you and your dojo a member of the AUSKF? This at least, you should answer. If the answer is no, the AUSKF I'm betting, won't provide insurance.

So, why are you afraid of it being bashed, when all we did was ask what dojo it is? If it's AUSKF there should be no fears about this.

Could you please tell us your location? Maybe someone here is in your dojo.

Also, out of idle curiosity, how long have you practiced? :)

Kaoru

[Neil Gendzwill]

Are we at least dealing with an AUSKF dojo here?

[Obulco]

That's why I'm asking for help with this project. I need to get everything organized before I start anything.

To prevent bashing on the dojo I go to, I won't reveal the name as of now. It used to be $70 a month for twice a week, but certain complications required some changes to that. Sorry don't really want to reveal much more specifics since I really don't know the exact details either.

I think that I know which Kendo club you are attending. If I am right, it is definitely a member of the AUSKF.

Anyway, this is what I would recommend to my own students.

1. Find an instructor willing to provide the technical leadership of your school.
2. Find out what are the expectations of your instructor in terms or time, space, membership, insurance and/or compensation.
3. Find out what are exactly your school expectations for an after school club.
4. Write a draft proposal and arrange a meeting between your instructor and the administrator in charge at your school.
5. If they agree in principle, conduct a simple survey to see what number of students you could roughly count on.
6. Make a formal proposal to your school.

I hope you follow through. Good luck.

[MostOriginal]

Eh, getting off topic and is slightly irritating so whatever. I go to the NY Shinbukan in... Edgemont I think, it's part of the AEUSKF. I recently entered the Keio Youth Tournament at the Keio Academy of NY, but I was put into Yushinkan's team for the team matches. I don't like to give out other people's names without their consent so I won't release anybody's names, but the ticket system was implemented around November - December because of some people not being able to come a majority of the month. To be honest, I don't know why they still do the ticketing thing, but it's fine with me.

I've only been practicing for a little over 7 months, but loving every minute of it. :)

[MostOriginal]

I think that I know which Kendo club you are attending. If I am right, it is definitely a member of the AUSKF.

Anyway, this is what I would recommend to my own students.

1. Find an instructor willing to provide the technical leadership of your school.
2. Find out what are the expectations of your instructor in terms or time, space, membership, insurance and/or compensation.
3. Find out what are exactly your school expectations for an after school club.
4. Write a draft proposal and arrange a meeting between your instructor and the administrator in charge at your school.
5. If they agree in principle, conduct a simple survey to see what number of students you could roughly count on.
6. Make a formal proposal to your school.

I hope you follow through. Good luck.

1. If you mean a supervisor at the school, I already have a couple people in mind and if you mean someone that can actually teach, I have a couple people in mind also.
2. Teacher supervisor - can get the information quickly
Sensei - can get information but may take a week or 2.
3. I've already asked the assistant principle about that and some of the more involved teachers and have got that covered for the most part.
4. Already met with the assistant principle (who told me to write a proposal) and I am getting help from English teachers on the proposal (as in how to format and such).
5. Already have a decent amount of reliable students that said they are interested.
6. Same as #4.

Woops didn't mean to double post

[nodachi]

My high school has a club, but it helps that I work there and teach the club. Having an instructor is a huge thing to get it going. It creates stability so that regardless of when people graduate, there is still someone there who is consistent and keeps it going. We also have ties with a local club so that there are higher ups who can check to see that I am leading them in the right direction as I am not officially a sensei.

Not being officially a dojo, we are not affiliated with the AUSKF so the insurance does not come from them.

We've been practicing for a little over a year and a half. At first insurance was a stumbling block because kendo does not count as an "interscholastic activity". However, after checking with whoever, the admin said we would be covered. It may depend from one school to another though.

A proposal for the club as what is kendo, what is a practice like, what's the equipment, and what is the typical risk was required to be written up and approved by the superintendent. They approved and we started. In terms of injuries, we've had only one blister in that whole year and a half so we are beyond significantly safer than any other sport at the school. At first people got shinai, started training, and saved up for stuff on their own. Having a contact with a dojo to get a couple bogu sets to lend for in club use was a huge step forward. However, prior to that, people knew to save up for the next 6 months and those who actually listened were ready to buy when the time came. Others asked parents to set aside money instead of giving birthday presents and saved so that they could pool money together and buy when the time was right.

Out of all the difficulties, get an instructor first, then move to getting school approval, then address equipment issues. They all can be dealt with step by step.

[Obulco]

Yeah. That was the Kendo club I had in mind. All right then; wait and see what your sensei has to say.

One last thing: In the final proposal to the Assistant Principal, try not to spell his title as “principle”. We, assistant principals, do not like that very much and everybody knows that we have a mean nature. :D Good luck again.

[Kaoru]

Eh, getting off topic and is slightly irritating so whatever. I go to the NY Shinbukan in... Edgemont I think, it's part of the AEUSKF. I recently entered the Keio Youth Tournament at the Keio Academy of NY, but I was put into Yushinkan's team for the team matches.


Oh, well that's a relief!! :) I just didn't want you to be taken for a ride, you know? I had that happen to me, and ended up in a McDojo for 5 1/2 months before I got into real kendo. I didn't want you to suffer that fate too. :) And NY... That explains the high cost. The rent for practice space. Very high there, from what I've heard.

Oh, and please don't be irritated. You should be happy we were concerned. Well, I know I was... :)


I don't like to give out other people's names without their consent so I won't release anybody's names, but the ticket system was implemented around November - December because of some people not being able to come a majority of the month. To be honest, I don't know why they still do the ticketing thing, but it's fine with me.Oh, I see. That's an interesting idea. If it works, then that's good.


I've only been practicing for a little over 7 months, but loving every minute of it. :)Awesome! I'm glad you have been sticking with it and that you enjoy it so much. :) I hope you keep at it!

Good luck with your study group and I hope it all works out for you. If not, maybe you and some of your friends who are interested could carpool to the dojo for practice if they want to do kendo?

Oh... Make sure your sensei knows of your plans to start a group if he hasn't yet been told. You will be representing your dojo and you should, imho, get his permission to do this and to teach others since you've been at it less than a year. And, if I was you, I'd not ask anyone to teach your group unless your sensei knows first who you want to ask and approves of it. Whomever teaches will be representing your dojo. Just some things to consider and think about... :)

Seriously though, good luck and have fun!

Kaoru

[MostOriginal]

Yeah, going to ask about it this week. Haven't asked anybody yet so it's all going good for now. Any more suggestions? Thanks for all your help so far everyone. :)

[Toshiro Mifune]

http://bartowhighschool.com/PDFs/Syllabus/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20SYL-Maeda%20Kendo%20Course%20syllabus.pdf

Here is a link to the syllabus of Maeda Sensei's kendo class. It has already been said but it is easier to have a class when the Sensei is a faculty member of the school. But I'm sure there are other classes like this at colleges. GW has a swordsmanship class which covers some kendo and iaido. I would try and find some different syllabus to use as guides for developing your proposal. Also stress the history, cultural, manners and other benefits of practing kendo in your proposal. It might also be good to have your teachers, Senseis and maybe friend's parents or other objective minds to give comments about your proposal before you submit it. Goodluck

[ben]

Thanks for the link to Maeda sensei's syllabus. I teach kendo in a high school (http://www.brunswick.vic.edu.au/index.php/Opportunities-for-Students/Philosophy-of-Kendo.html) and it exists at my school basically because I do. However it would be possible for a student to set up an after school hours club. They would need to be very canny about creating strong links to outside sensei and clubs. They would also need to demonstrate a need for it (i.e. lots of students committing to joining up).

One of my long term goals is to create a kind of high school kendo league, so that students in my city can compete against other schools in kendo. At the moment this dream is a fair way off...

PM me if you want some more in depth info.

b

[MostOriginal]

Although you say to pm you, I think it would benefit more than just me if I asked in this thread, but I'll pm you about specifics later on. Thank you.

Toshiro Mifune >> Thanks for that syllabus, do you think it would be ok if I showed that as an example with my proposal? It would be a good example of kendo in a student environment that already exists outside mine.

ben >> How long has the club been around for and how exactly did you get it approved by your school; as in deciding factors, financing, etc.?

As of now, I was planning on discussing or at least touching the surface of the history, how and what it teaches, benefits to mind and body, cultural aspects, why our school could use this cultural experience, and I was told to put in how it would benefit the entire school body but I guess that would fall under the cultural diffusion part.

[ben]

Well there's a fairly detailed essay appearing in the next Kendo World magazine. Subscribe and you'll find out!

In short, my school has had kendo for about 4 years now. I run a classroom elective and an after school club. It got approved because the school wanted a physical activity that was unique and also had a strong pedagogical base in transmitting values such as respect, perseverance, focus, etc. I came along (as a classroom teacher of Art) and wanted to run kendo subject of some kind. Presto! When everyone's in favour of something, things can move fast. I was teaching kendo less than 6 months after starting at the school.

The school invested in shinai fairly quickly, but we are still using bogu and dogi that was donated to my own club Nanseikan. So the financial side of things can move more slowly. You might need to do your own fundraising.

My biggest tip: make everything as easy as possible for the Principals and School Council. Have a solution ready for every problem: What are the insurance requirements and do you have them covered? What will you do with kids who just want to learn how to bash people up? What do you get for all this training? If it's so great why isn't it an Olympic sport? Being able to easily answer all these (and more) questions will instill confidence in the concept.

And a high-octane demo by some visiting kenshi is always be good for creating extra interest. Remember, none of these people really know what kendo is. Show them.

b

[cidergeorge]

Ben, I am really interested in this as I am looking at doing an Ma along the lines of "martial arts and their impact on behaviour in schools" if I can. I am an English teacher in a comprehensive school, the same as a high school in the states. Do you know of any existing studies in this area?

[Obulco]

Ben, I am really interested in this as I am looking at doing an Ma along the lines of "martial arts and their impact on behaviour in schools" if I can. I am an English teacher in a comprehensive school, the same as a high school in the states. Do you know of any existing studies in this area?


Years ago, when I had to convince my Board of Trustees to continue the program at the school, I used this article and some of the references at the end of the page. Some of the readings are as boring as expected, but at least I could use them to convince them that there is nothing conclusive about MA promoting aggressive behaviors as some members of the my school Board thought at the time!

http://userpages.chorus.net/wrassoc/articles/psychsoc.htm

[cidergeorge]

NIce one Obulco. Much appreciated! Believe me anything will be step away from violence in most British schools now?!?! Three forms of karate are now listed as a module on our phys ed GCSEs (main exams at 16), and boxing and wrestling have been reincorporated as well (although none at a contact level). I am thinking about the constructive, self-disciplining and respect elements.

[Obulco]

NIce one Obulco. Much appreciated! Believe me anything will be step away from violence in most British schools now?!?! Three forms of karate are now listed as a module on our phys ed GCSEs (main exams at 16), and boxing and wrestling have been reincorporated as well (although none at a contact level). I am thinking about the constructive, self-disciplining and respect elements.

I was asked these questions regarding character after the year 10 of the program. At that time, we have had about 200 students who had been part of the Judo club from only 10 weeks to 4 years and the Board wanted to understand the results. My school is in the so-called inner city and we serve the lowest income families of the area. Any program that helps with issues of character and self-discipline is a welcomed addition. What we found is that the great majority of students in the program were among the most respectful students at the school at large. We also found that the longer the students stayed in the program, the most likely they were to be honor roll students.

Now, I used these numbers to protect the existence of the club, but I feel kind of dishonest from a strict intellectual point of view as I have no way to know if those students found and stayed in Judo precisely because they already had in their character the self-discipline and persistence required for the activity.

P.S. How do you do wrestling without contact? :D

[cidergeorge]

P.S. How do you do wrestling without contact? :D[/QUOTE]

A la WWF!? Not really sure though, maybe shadow wrestling?

[Toshiro Mifune]

Although you say to pm you, I think it would benefit more than just me if I asked in this thread, but I'll pm you about specifics later on. Thank you.

Toshiro Mifune >> Thanks for that syllabus, do you think it would be ok if I showed that as an example with my proposal? It would be a good example of kendo in a student environment that already exists outside mine.

ben >> How long has the club been around for and how exactly did you get it approved by your school; as in deciding factors, financing, etc.?

As of now, I was planning on discussing or at least touching the surface of the history, how and what it teaches, benefits to mind and body, cultural aspects, why our school could use this cultural experience, and I was told to put in how it would benefit the entire school body but I guess that would fall under the cultural diffusion part.

Maybe you can email Maeda Sensei to ask for permission but I think he won't have any objections. Maybe he might even write a letter to help further your chances. But I would also mention the US Team's victory over Japan during the last WKC. So they can see the level of kendo is improving everywhere. Maybe even include Chris Yang Sensei's article that was in Kendo Nippon (later translated can be found in the last issue of Kendo World or online at the SCKF homepage).

Goodluck

[MostOriginal]

I had a talk with one of my teachers the other day and he told me that I should probably try to get the club started without physical contact first. So maybe just the basics to begin with to get everyone into form and then create another proposal to get permission to have physical contact. The problem with this is that if I can't get them to approve the contact, I'm screwed. Should I try it this way or should I just create a proposal for the whole deal in one block?

Also, I asked my sensei about the insurance dilemma and he said he would ask Kataoka Sensei (I think) about it, but I'm going to have to ask about that again since I've gotten no word yet.

Toshiro Mifune >> That's a good idea, thanks! I'll try to get on that soon, but still working out the last bit of details before I can really do anything.

[thecolonel]

I work for a high school. In the case of Kendo, I prefer to take students interested to my Kendo club which is pretty close to the school. However, I have run at my school a Judo club for the last 12 years. The main issue here was not physical contact as most sports have physical contact anyway. Having an instructor and the proper equipment was the decisive factor in allowing this club to exist.

In our case, it is not an after school activity. It is scheduled into the school day. It is a voluntary activity that students may choose among others. Summerlin Academy is a public school that has a full time kendo teacher Maeda Sensei. I will be glad to help any sponsor, coach, administrator that wants to get kendo in their school. Check out our website www.summerlinacademy.com look in the multimedia section for a kendo video and there are some news clips of our kendo program. My email is michael.butler@polk-fl.net and I will any questions about our program.

[thecolonel]

Summerlin Academy is a public school that offers Kendo in place of traditional PE classes. I will be glad to give information to anyone interested in getting kendo started in their school. Our website is www.summerlinacademy.com and my email is michael.butler@polk-fl.net.

[NigelSponge]

One thing you will want to be able to show to the school administration is that you have interest of the student body. They want to be sure that their money is going into something that will be appreciated by a large amount of people, so making a petition of people who will join the club if it's created is a good thing to do.
Best of luck!

[andii_kun]

My wife's friend teaches Japanese at Bothell High school. According to the Seattle Times, they offer Kendo as one of the extracurricular activites (after school club?). I think it's really just an informal offshoot of the Japanese club.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/schoolguide/profile.php?results=false&building_id=3106&search=

[bravo22]

You guys are pretty fortunate, the archery club at my high school was disbanded 2 years before I left due to lack of attendance.

It's too bad, I really like archery, and shooting in one's backyard appears to be illegal.

[Const]

Sry for being off topic, but I gonna spend 10 month in the usa from this august on and I wanna continue practicing so I can do my kyu-exam when coming back to Germany. I may not be abled to join the training of a regular club, but I can ask the exchange-organisation to let me go to a school by my choice so I wanted to ask u if anybody can help me finding a kinda list of high schools (outside the big cities) which offer kendo as an after school club. Please send me your suggestions via private mail. I gonna delete this post if I got what I need. I would be happy bout some help. ^_^
Greetings, Const

[Moonrise]

So practising twice a week, you're going to be paying over $150/month? Which club is this?

Yeah... that seems pretty spendy. Where are high school students supposed to get that kind of money?

[jmarsten]

Hey everyone. I was wondering if anybody that either goes to high school or works in a high school has kendo there. I'm a junior in high school now and I've been trying to get a kendo club started, but I was told by the assistant principle to create a proposal and that he would consider it. After speaking to my english teacher about this, he told me that if any precedent has been set already it would help me out a lot. The main reason why it might not be ok is because of the physical contact.

So, does anybody have kendo at their schools? If so could you please share how long it has been there for, where you practice, if it is part of the curriculum or just an after school activity, etc. Also, any key points that I should mention in my proposal? Thanks in advance.

Bothell HS in Bothell WA has had a school program for several years. However the teacher responsible has taken a 1 year leave of absence because her mother is very ill in Japan. One of my students goes to school there and I can ask him to check things out for you. e-mail me at jmarsten@comcast.net and I will put you in contact.

[b8amack]

Question for Ben, though. Do you find that your school, because it's term-based (I'm assuming) has a higher than average rate of people who stick with kendo after the getting-in-bogu-abyss? I wonder if a school setting, which sort of makes continued attendance obligatory, would force a lot of new players to just get over that bogu hump.

[ben]

Good question but difficult to answer quickly. I find I have 100% participation, including wearing bogu, because them's the rules. But conversely I have close to 100% attrition rate at the end of the course when everyone stops. A very few do come to after school training, but not many compared to the numbers I have in the classroom. Every year I teach kendo in the classroom to 150 students.

Some do come back and do the course again the following year, although theoretically they are supposed to be placed in electives they have not done previously. So I suppose it's not quite 100% attrition.

So the "bogu hump" applies a little differently. I do put the kids in bogu much sooner in class than I would ordinarily. Even the after-school club is a little less rigorous than Nanseikan and most other Victorian kendo clubs. I'm aware that a lot of kids are still trying things out and prone to irregular attendance after school, so I want to give them a fair taste of kendo a bit quicker than usual. b