Ancient schools/techniques

[Kojiro1518]

Has anyone here ever given much thought to the schools of kenjutsu that are long since dead? Some of the still existing schools can trace lineage back to the Muromachi period or Eisho period in Japan, but obviously there had to be more. Some styles die out or disappear. Why? Currently my interests lie in trying to resurrect Ganryū. I just don't know exactly how possible this may or may not be, but why not give it a shot? What are your thoughts on why these styles might have died out or what might be done to bring them back and learn from them?

[Kaoru]

Has anyone here ever given much thought to the schools of kenjutsu that are long since dead? Some of the still existing schools can trace lineage back to the Muromachi period or Eisho period in Japan, but obviously there had to be more. Some styles die out or disappear. Why? Currently my interests lie in trying to resurrect Ganryū. I just don't know exactly how possible this may or may not be, but why not give it a shot? What are your thoughts on why these styles might have died out or what might be done to bring them back and learn from them?

You can't resurrect it. You didn't live back then, so it would be impossible since you don't even know what techniques they used and how they did them. Besides, you have no real training to do so, from what you said in another post.
So, if I was you, I wouldn't try. It's best to get real training in an art that is still around. :)

Kaoru

[Mr. T.]

Okee...

School disappear(ed) for several reasons:
1. They got whipped out in battle. Plain and simple, if you sucked at it in the "good old days" you died.
2. Meiji restoration. A huge decline in the interest in JSA.
3. WOII aftermath, see no. 2 + declared illigal by the US for some time.
4. The Soke of a ryu refused to appoint a successor or forgot to appoint one on time (usually that means the end of a ryu, not always).
5. There is simply no one with enough skill to succeed a soke.
6. Some one decided to nuke them.
7. etc.

As you can see, it's not that simple. Loads of factors contributed to the extinction of hundreds (maybe thousands) of ryu. I'm no history buff, so forgive if I forget a couple of factors (the list is endless).

Also, even though the idea is noble, resurrecting a ryu is impossible. Once extinct they are gone forever. Each ryu had many different ideas, secrets, techniques unique to that ryu. They cannot be recreated, not by studying other arts, books, vids or whatever. They are just gone. It's sad, but that's how it works. Sorry. So no more Ganryū.

I would advise you to go and find a dojo with an existing ryu, kendo and iaido are also great. Please give that a thought because resurrecting a ryu is like resurrecting the dead, great in movies but impossible in real life.

[Kojiro1518]

I do understand that fully resurrecting a ryu might be impossible, however it may be possible to find basic techniques which would be an interesting start. To find the roots of Ganryū I can look to Chujo ryū and just keep moving backwards. Though forward is usually a better direction to move. I have nothing against existing ryū though. I would like to learn as many arts as I can. To me there is nothing more important than learning and improving. That is why my interests lie in past styles as well. To learn to use weapons beyond the basic Katana through the use of shinai and bokuto I could learn the use of a kodachi or nodachi. These weapons have their place in various martial arts, but some schools specialize in the use of such weapons. Ganryū = nodachi and Chujo ryū = kodachi. My goal in learning various martial arts has never been to compete or gain titles, but always just to learn. That is why I look into the past.

[Kaoru]

I do understand that fully resurrecting a ryu might be impossible, however it may be possible to find basic techniques which would be an interesting start. To find the roots of Ganryū I can look to Chujo ryū and just keep moving backwards. Though forward is usually a better direction to move. I have nothing against existing ryū though.


You just don't get it do you. :) It is not possible, period. Once a ryu is dead, it is DEAD, as in GONE. The techniques indigenous to the ryu are lost forever. Each ryu has it's own characteristics, and the techniques may be similar, but also can be very different at the same time, and some ryu have stuff another will not. And, when a ryu disappears due to any of the ways Mr. T described, it is also GONE. No matter what you think, there is no way to get a ryu like that, back. Also, you have no legitimate training in any JSA, so that's a good reason right there, not to bother. You won't know one thing from another.

And, did you even read Mr. T's post? He made it clear why it is not possible, more so than I did.


I would like to learn as many arts as I can.

This is the worst thing you can do. When you try to learn too many you will never be able to become good at any. And, you can't self-teach yourself stuff either. You need to pick just one or two arts and focus on them and train in a real dojo and actually work hard and get decent at them.

There's a saying... "Jack of all trades and master of none." It means a person is not very good at any of the many things one gets their hands into, and it is better to pick just one or two things to learn and get good at instead. That's what happens when you spread yourself too thin. You become this.


To me there is nothing more important than learning and improving.


This is true when you are training under a qualified sensei. If not, it is a waste of your time. :)


That is why my interests lie in past styles as well.

You can have an interest in them all you want, as long as you don't go into some fantasy world where you think you can resurrect them and practice them. All you can do is read about them. Sorry.



To learn to use weapons beyond the basic Katana through the use of shinai and bokuto I could learn the use of a kodachi or nodachi. These weapons have their place in various martial arts, but some schools specialize in the use of such weapons. Ganryū = nodachi and Chujo ryū = kodachi. My goal in learning various martial arts has never been to compete or gain titles, but always just to learn. That is why I look into the past.

I think you need to join a real dojo so you can become grounded and realise what these arts really are.

You'll find very quickly that they are a lot harder than you think and they are more complicated, too. And, you'll find out fast that it will take you a life-time just to become half-way decent at just one art.

Kaoru

[Mr. T.]

Although I really don't need (or at least I shouldn't have to) repeat myself and kaoru, here we go... again.


I do understand that fully resurrecting a ryu might be impossible, however it may be possible to find basic techniques which would be an interesting start.

No, it's not possible. It's gone. You cannot recreate something if you do not know what it looks like. Which is the case here. Martial arts evolve, this includes JSA. Swordsmanship today looks very different from the pre Meiji or even pre WWII or even a generation ago. There is nothing to go back to.


To find the roots of Ganryū I can look to Chujo ryū and just keep moving backwards.

I wish it was that simple. But it doesn't work that way. You cannot move backwards because you don't know what it looked like even a generation ago (you weren’t born back then).


Though forward is usually a better direction to move.

Movement, in this case, is always forward. It's called evolution. JSA evolve.


I would like to learn as many arts as I can. To me there is nothing more important than learning and improving.

This means that you will know very little about a lot of things. It will also mean that you will probably won't know enough about any subject to be able to really understand it. At some point you need to make choices and specialize. If you don't understand, wait until college or uni, trust me, then you'll get it what I'm talking about.


To learn to use weapons beyond the basic Katana through the use of shinai and bokuto I could learn the use of a kodachi or nodachi. These weapons have their place in various martial arts, but some schools specialize in the use of such weapons.

There is a good reason for that. You need to specialize at some point to (fully) understand it. Once you've done that, and there is some time left, you might add another "art form". (BTW the katana is anything but "basic")


My goal in learning various martial arts has never been to compete or gain titles, but always just to learn.

Good for you. But understand, you can only learn something if you are willing to take the time to really study it. By hopping from 1 martial art to the next you'll never understand the martial arts you've studied.


That is why I look into the past.

You're looking way to much in the past. Let extinct martial arts stay extinct. They ended up like that for a reason. They'll never return, never. Get yourself into a kendo, iaido and (maybe if you're lucky, 'cause they are rare) a kenjutsu dojo and enjoy. You're only 14, it's not your job to bring back dead arts, it's a waste of time. If you keep trying, at some point in your life you’ll realize that you wasted so much time on getting something back from extinction that cannot be brought back.(damn I sound like some old fart :confused:) Do something useful and/or fun: kendo, basketball, chess, whatever rocks your boat, but trying to resurrect a JSA is not useful. Once a JSA is gone, it's gone. Sorry.

[Ken Morgan]

Curious how would you go about learning Ganryū? Are there old sources out there that describe it's kata? Wood block prints? Anything? If you have something, or know were they are please let me know, I'd love to have a look see.

I understand what you're trying to do, I really do, I love history myself, but as everyone else has stated, what you want to do just isn't really possible.

I've been a student of MJER for 9 years and MSR Jodo for 9 years, I've done some Tanjo and some Niten, and honestly? I barely have a clue. I'm going to be just a student for the next 40 years.

The best you can hope for is to learn a sword art, from a good teacher, and then assuming some old source information exists on Ganryū, you might be able to see what they were getting at. But by that time, you'll realize that its all the same.

Don't collect kata, don't collect schools, everybody does it to some extent, but again, in the end? Its all the same. There are no secret teachings. Once you've been practicing for some years, you can pick up kata pretty quickly. I could make a kata up, but why would I? The 60 or 70 I know would provide me with the answer to any situation.

Best of luck.

[Oroshi]

What's wrong with all the real, extant kenjutsu ryuha? Frankly, this is no different from the anime freaks who try to teach themselves Ruroni Kenshin's style from comics. In fact, it's a step down from that because at least they have something to work from, even if it's a fictional comic book.

Don't waste your time making crap up. Study an extant Japanese sword art for a while and you'll soon realise that what you're proposing is impossible and pointless. Learning an existing sword art is hard enough, let along trying to learn a non-existent one.

[Allan Yee]

Curious how would you go about learning Ganryū? Are there old sources out there that describe it's kata? Wood block prints? Anything? If you have something, or know were they are please let me know, I'd love to have a look see.

Seconded.

Even with documentation it's going to be tough to get it right; easy to get things wrong. For example, I read Go Rin No Sho (五輪書) in my youth (okay, I read a translation). Last year I went to the HyoHo Niten Ichiryu Seminar (http://www.uoguelph.ca/~iaido/iai-nitenseminar.html) in Calgary. There's no way I could have recreated the actual practice with only the book and some exposure to iaido.

And why would one want to resurrect an extinct school anyway? There are plenty of living schools to learn from, and sooner or later you'll get everything from them that you would have expected to find in some obscure (because nobody practices it anymore) old school. Here's an article (http://ejmas.com/pt/ptart_taylor_0802.htm) from Kim Taylor talking about why rare isn't necessarily better.

Allan
Nonetheless, the mystique of antiquities gnaws at me ...

[ScottUK]

I would like to learn as many arts as I can.Congratulations on choosing a path of mediocrity. I suggest you take the next left and choose one thing and study it intently before moving onto something else. I am currently involved in four arts and it is a sodding nightmare to study them all to the same intensity level.


Currently my interests lie in trying to resurrect Ganryū.An interesting (albeit impossible) idea. How far have you got?

[Kagerou]

Congratulations on choosing a path of mediocrity. I suggest you take the next left and choose one thing and study it intently before moving onto something else. I am currently involved in four arts and it is a sodding nightmare to study them all to the same intensity level.


seconded.

Even though I love every art I do I have still prioritized them. We don't have the "luxury" of being paid soldiers who must learn all these wonderful things.

As for resurecting an extinct art....good luck and be sure to post your results on youtube.

[Peter West]

There are some good points on here, and I agree with everything said so far. Here is another perspective:
I practice Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu. After 27 years I feel I have some understanding and a certain breadth of knowledge of the kata. I recently was instructing a seminar at which some students, also students of the MJER attended, but they had a teacher I'd not heard of. They were obviously doing the same kata, but the style was very different. After some discussion we discovered that 4 generations of teachers back, the 2 styles descended from the same source. That's only 4 generations back and already they are considerably different in style. I also look on You Tube and (amongst the competent videos!) I see other variations, also of MJER. How, then, without video evidence could I or someone like me, determine how those kata were performed 100 years ago by the then headmaster, or how that related to the performances a generation before that, and so on.

So we get back to the founder, who was about the same time as Ganryu, and we have 3 main lines descended from that time (MSR, MJER and jushin Ryu), and within each of those a whole spectrum of styles, yet we have no way of knowing how the kata were performed 100 years ago, let alone 400 years ago, and that is with a style that hasn't died out.

What hope do you have for a style that died out 400 years ago?

You would have as much luck trying to resurect the language of a south american tribe that was exterminated by the Spanish invaders at about that same time and who had no written language.

[Ookami7]

Exactly, you have to priotize which arts you do! 2nd most of the source material you will be using and reading from is Japanese,(Some of which will be very old with meanings nuonces that you are not familar with) 3rd its a very specialized field!
4th most people concentrate on koryu that is still being passed on or gendai forms that are taught by experienced and capable instructors! Not everyone has what it takes, time, knowledge, etc to be para trooper, or elite military unit! Same with this. Do you want a sniper trying to clear a minefield or a medic to be one that has to take the 1 shot 1 kill on a mission? 5th, in my opinion its much better to try and learn from those that are experienced here in Japan and in other countries. I am very fortunate to have the guidance of 7th and 8th dan Iaidoka teaching me koryu and sharing advice on how to improve and increase my knowldege of the art! This you will not get from trying to ressurect a dead school that does not have any practioners living still! Anyways good luck, in my opinion your better off studying a current living koryu school. Plus most koryu do include kodachi kata in there circulum!

[Rennis]

This you will not get from trying to ressurect a dead school that does not have any practioners living still!

Another thing to keep in mind with "recreation".
A few years back a certain Japanese individual recreated the extinct grappling portion of a certain ryu that died out 60 some years odd years ago. While he has had some media "success" in publications and such, no serious practitioner I have met here has ever had anything good to say about him, with opinions ranging from "amusing" and "childish" to downright disdain. Recreation only has a prayer of being somehow meaningful in the context it was originally intended when it is carried out by highly experienced practitioners of arts that have direct connections to the material that has been lost. Anything thing else, while possibly being an interesting exercise, is meaningless as being somehow representative of the original lost material and, as a bonus, is a sure-fire way to get yourself looked down upon by the majority of serious practitioners out there.

For what it's worth,
Rennis Buchner

[Kingofmyrrh]

Congratulations on choosing a path of mediocrity. I suggest you take the next left and choose one thing and study it intently before moving onto something else. I am currently involved in four arts and it is a sodding nightmare to study them all to the same intensity level.

An interesting (albeit impossible) idea. How far have you got?

Undoubtedly he has flicked through the pages of "Musashi" by Yoshikawa Eiji. Maybe he's even got as far as watching the trilogy of films! Tsubame gaeshi!

[pgsmith]

Kojiro1518,

I do understand that fully resurrecting a ryu might be impossible, however it may be possible to find basic techniques which would be an interesting start.
This statement shows that you are someone that has no real familiarity with the japanese arts or training methods. You are laboring under a mistaken impression of just what training in a koryu art entails. The vast majority of people are under the mistaken impression that learning a classical art is simply a matter of "learning techniques" and then applying said techniques in appropriate situations. This is NOT how it works. A koryu art is an amalgamation of various training methods which are geared toward teaching a person to respond in a particular manner. The "techniques" which are taught are not intended to be used as such, they are merely training tools to instill the philosophy and movements of the school.

Even if you were to find a "hidden scroll" listing all of the schools kata, without an instructor to correct you, you'd have no idea if you were doing them correctly. Without the background philosophy of the school, which comes from an instructor, you'd have no idea what you were trying to achieve with the school's kata.

Even if you were to totally discount the mental training dictated by a particular ryu, you would be totally missing the ura, or inside philosophy of the various kata. All you would have is the omote, or outside view, and even that would be suspect since the sources are almost non-existent.

I would liken it to an attempt to build a jet engine, when all you have to work from is a poorly made sketch of a picture of a 747. :)

[Masahiro]

what? what am I suppose to do with my "hidden bullshit ryu" maki i found last month? :confused:

[kurisu]

You could always pursue or ask someone involved in Western sword arts, they are all about reviving old styles from books and woodblock prints.

[Anonymous]

You could always pursue or ask someone involved in Western sword arts, they are all about reviving old styles from books and woodblock prints.

And they will also tell you that what they do may somewhat resemble what was done back in the day, but its doubtful that what they're doing now is really all that similar.

[imouto]

You could always pursue or ask someone involved in Western sword arts, they are all about reviving old styles from books and woodblock prints.
I'm involved in fencing. It has a long history but the techniques in it are not about keeping an old style alive. It's undergone a great many changes. While the principles behind technique are the same, it is not about recreating the past.

[kurisu]

I'm involved in fencing. It has a long history but the techniques in it are not about keeping an old style alive. It's undergone a great many changes. While the principles behind technique are the same, it is not about recreating the past.

Ok, let me rephrase, I should have said Historical Western Martial Arts.

Sword Forum Internationals boards are full of posts from guys who reference old books and prints then try to recreate the art from what they see. There are numerous debates and discussions on interpretations of manuals and prints.

To me, it’s no different than grabbing Yagyu Munenori’s Heiho Kadensho off the shelf or Mushashi’s 5 rings, looking at some old pictures and then trying to recreate the style.

The difference here is, if you have a katana in your hand and are trying to do it, you are called a backyard ninja. If you hold a German long sword in your hand, it’s ok and a noble pursuit.

[Wookiesmurf]

I'm guessing kurisu was thinking more along the lines of what people are doing with Fiore Dei Liberi's manuscripts and such, not modern fencing.

Aaand kurisu clarified his own point. :)

[Kenzan]

The difference here is, if you have a katana in your hand and are trying to do it, you are called a backyard ninja. If you hold a German long sword in your hand, it’s ok and a noble pursuit.


I've always found this to be a bit of a curious phenomenon isn't it?
I wonder if it has to do with Japanese fencing schools being perhaps a bit more prolific, established and more organized in the recent past than European Martial Arts schools.
But I could not say for certain.
Bu then again, It could also speak to elevated personal feelings of JSA practitioners.

[kurisu]

I've always found this to be a bit of a curious phenomenon isn't it?
I wonder if it has to do with Japanese fencing schools being perhaps a bit more prolific, established and more organized in the recent past than European Martial Arts schools.
But I could not say for certain.
Bu then again, It could also speak to elevated personal feelings of JSA practitioners.

What I find more amusing is there are 20 some odd year olds out there with schools of thier own that teach this stuff, like this guy:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=17641784

[pgsmith]

The difference here is, if you have a katana in your hand and are trying to do it, you are called a backyard ninja. If you hold a German long sword in your hand, it’s ok and a noble pursuit.
There's a very large difference between the two. First, there were several prominent European instructors that produced "how-to" manuals. Although the manuals are subject to translation assumptions, and the original writers left out a lot of stuff that was assumed to be already known by anyone that would be studying in their school, they are still fairly in-depth with a lot of precise information. The Japanese never did this as there was way too much rivalry between different clans and schools. There is still a large cloak of secrecy over the koryu arts, although it is more transparent than it used to be. Second, the Japanese arts are still in existence. Why in the world would anyone wish to "recreate" something when you can already get actual instruction in it? When talking with serious students of the Western Martial Arts, they all invariably comment on how lucky I am to have a living tradition and instuctors for my training.


What I find more amusing is there are 20 some odd year olds out there with schools of thier own that teach this stuff, like this guy:
What, you think McDojos are only found in the Eastern arts? :)

[Kenzan]

I'd also like to point out that I think it's important to consider certain questions on any sort of Historical "restoration" study:

1. To what level of depth is the person who is spearheading the project qualified to examine, analyze and interpret and contextualize writings from the period?

2. How much of the project relies upon the opinions of just one person, or is it a peer reviewed process by other people qualified to do so?

3. Is the project approached using established scientific methodology, such as the famous team that reconstructed Da vinci's unrealized drawings?

I think it's fair to say that in most cases, the answer to these questions is no, and you'll find far more people playing the weekend warrior for fun and sort of legitimizing themselves by basing what they do on something antiquated. This is not to say that serious Historical groups don't exist because they do in earnest, but what the difference seems to be is that the groups that are considered more legitimate almost universally answer "yes" to the above qualifiers.
I think this is important because as a scholarly endeavor, when we are talking about History, I think it's important to actually learn correctly, rather than making it as we would like it to be.

I assume the same is true with Japanese arts, and perhaps even more so due to the extreme rarity of persons qualified in ANY of the areas listed previously.

In conclusion, with respect to the physical attributes of the various Western Martial Arts as they are reconstructed accurately from Historical texts; the chances of meeting someone who speaks with authority in that they know what they are doing, and have been recognized by a legitimate historical/scientific entity or organization, is vastly overshadowed by the legions of Myspace and Youtube Man-at-Arms "Masters" who claim to be teaching the "real deal."
I would go so far as to double this formula for J.S.A.

That perhaps is the succinct difference of Backyard Ninjas and the rest.

[Kenzan]

Geeze I sound like a blowhard.
Sorry Folks.

[pgsmith]

Geeze I sound like a blowhard.
Bwahahahaha .... Welcome to the dark side ..... :D

[kurisu]

There are some historical western martial arts/artists that I do appreciate, but I have a little bias against them because of things like this:

http://www.thearma.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23547

I’ve also had a few run ins with his followers and other’s who like to discredit Eastern Arts, so of course I like to take shots at them occasionally.

I like what these guys do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sVdx7nzhQ

[Kagerou]

The difference here is, if you have a katana in your hand and are trying to do it, you are called a backyard ninja. If you hold a German long sword in your hand, it’s ok and a noble pursuit.

Well you can't very well call someone doing western sword arts a ninjer can you?

Maybe we should coin a new term....or take a page from Monty Python.

Backyard Knigits! TM

[Ron Beaubien]

Another thing to keep in mind with "recreation".
A few years back a certain Japanese individual recreated the extinct grappling portion of a certain ryu that died out 60 some years odd years ago. While he has had some media "success" in publications and such, no serious practitioner I have met here has ever had anything good to say about him, with opinions ranging from "amusing" and "childish" to downright disdain. Recreation only has a prayer of being somehow meaningful in the context it was originally intended when it is carried out by highly experienced practitioners of arts that have direct connections to the material that has been lost. Anything thing else, while possibly being an interesting exercise, is meaningless as being somehow representative of the original lost material and, as a bonus, is a sure-fire way to get yourself looked down upon by the majority of serious practitioners out there.

Well said, Rennis.

Regards,

Ron Beaubien

[greenwood]

Hi there... I am new to the forum and have heard rumour of a katori shinto ryu school in vancouver. I live in Kelowna... quite a distance away, but I would be willing to travel to study this art. If anyone is aware of a way to contact the sensei of this dojo and could send it to me it would be much appreciated.

Your thanks in advance on this matter.

T. Greenwood
altius369@hotmail.com

[ShinKenshi]

Hi there... I am new to the forum and have heard rumour of a katori shinto ryu school in vancouver. I live in Kelowna... quite a distance away, but I would be willing to travel to study this art. If anyone is aware of a way to contact the sensei of this dojo and could send it to me it would be much appreciated.

Your thanks in advance on this matter.

T. Greenwood
altius369@hotmail.comI thought I heard something about this too but to my knowledge there's only one man who has permission to teach TSKSR and that would be Phil Relnick and I think he's near Seattle, WA if I'm not mistaken. Some info here (http://www.tenshinsho-den-katori-shinto-ryu.org/) and hope it helps.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Hi there... I am new to the forum and have heard rumour of a katori shinto ryu school in vancouver. I live in Kelowna... quite a distance away, but I would be willing to travel to study this art. If anyone is aware of a way to contact the sensei of this dojo and could send it to me it would be much appreciated.I'm not aware of any TSKSR in Vancouver. There's kendo (http://kelownakendo.com/) and Eishin-ryu iaido (http://www.roninjj.com/home.html) right in Kelowna, you might check those out.

[Maro]

There are some historical western martial arts/artists that I do appreciate, but I have a little bias against them because of things like this:

http://www.thearma.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23547



That is quite a strange attitude they have - too many Bruce Lee movies I think, trying to "Dare" someone to come and fight them :confused:

[Zornocology]

maybe they're having trouble because nobody asked Anjin-san or The Great I AM
hahaha

[un hartim]

Gosh! How can I miss this thread? A lot of interesting points are arising.

Firstly, resurrection of an extinct JSA:

Yes, we-know-what-we-are-talking-about, Youtube is a good example of people holding katanas, shinais or bokkens. wearing some kind of hakama and gi, and making an priceless performances. Claiming, of course, they are the definitive evolution of guachi gu ryu. Disgusting.

However, I believe we cannot say if a JSA is dead, it is absolutely gone. I know a JSA which was dead for a number of years, forbidden by the authorities and resurrected. The time:1945-1955. The name: Kendo (does it ring a bell?)

Secondly, Western vs Eastern recreation:

I consider there is a very big difference in the roots of this fashion. I am not interested in practice Europe Old Sword styles, but it was a time in my life that I did my little research to know what going on about it. And my impression was very good. They say a very important part of their art is the actual research: looking for old books, real manuals, visiting libraries and museums. And, apparently it is true. They have my respect and it is honourable, from my point of view, because they try to "save" part of our European heritage. Of course you can find cheaters and liers, but you can find them everywhere. But what I saw it was people who take their swords and studies seriously. Moreover, they, mainly, have a respect both kendo and their practioners, we are some kind of cousins. But they claim that japanese swords it is not "the only ones" and european styles were as good or even better than samurais ones (you can disagree or not, but it is a resanoble statement)

On the other hand, Eastern recreation is based, mainly, in anime? Star Wars? Backyard ninjas? Movies? Kill Bill? Quick money playing with katanas?

[ShinKenshi]

However, I believe we cannot say if a JSA is dead, it is absolutely gone. I know a JSA which was dead for a number of years, forbidden by the authorities and resurrected. The time:1945-1955. The name: Kendo (does it ring a bell?)One fatal flaw in your argument. During that period of time, kendo was banned, not dead. Practitioners were still alive and able to revive it whereas the koryu the original poster wanted to resurect has been dead for generations and, to our knowledge, was not passed on. When people here say a JSA is dead, they mean no successor was chosen, all practitioners of that art have died, and no detailed records of their techniques survived (not that you would be able to reconstruct their techniques from text anyway).

As for eastern vs. western sword art reconstruction, the difference between the two is rather distinct. Western techniques were well documented and these records have survived. JSA were more secretive and few, if any, ever documented their techniques in detail. Additionally, you can't really compare the two in a way that shows both in the best light simultaneously because of the different tactics used, different fighting mentalities, and the sharp contrast of their weapons (no pun intended).

[Kenshi]

Furthermore, kendo was banned, but its practise didnt stop.