gi under hakama?

[pamiro]

why doesnt kendoists wear gi under their hakamas like in aikido for example?

[Andoy]

Pants under hakama? It's because it get's pretty warm and wearing a hakama instead of those 'karate pants' (sorry for my lack of terminology) gives you better ventilation. In fact,traditional kendoka (mainly sensei these days) practice wearing hakama with NOTHING underneath!

[xvikingx]

Yeah besides it being hot enough with just the hakama...

1: Aikido gis do not cover as much as kendo gis, if you were to wear just the hakama in aikido people would see your undies.

2: Aikido involves a lot of flipping action (ukemi); once again the pants will keep your parts private.

3: Last but not least, kendo is not aikido.

[JSchmidt]

Pants under hakama? It's because it get's pretty warm and wearing a hakama instead of those 'karate pants' (sorry for my lack of terminology) gives you better ventilation. In fact,traditional kendoka (mainly sensei these days) practice wearing hakama with NOTHING underneath!
You'll find that it isn't only teachers who practice freedom kendo :)

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143&highlight=freedom

Jakob (Freedom kendo advocate)

[Paul Kerr]

I've practiced aikido for 14 years and kendo for only a couple of months now and I found it VERY strange to not wear dogi pants under my hakama. That, plus not wearing an obi means that I'm still a sartorial disaster :confused:

I don't buy the "too hot" argument though - I sweat lots in aikido and I've never thought of shedding my keks to cool down :grin:

[pamiro]

Pants under hakama? It's because it get's pretty warm and wearing a hakama instead of those 'karate pants' (sorry for my lack of terminology) gives you better ventilation. In fact,traditional kendoka (mainly sensei these days) practice wearing hakama with NOTHING underneath!

i am not asking to wear gi (pants ) instead of the hakama, no need to be a rocket scientist to understand the difference of comfort ...

and i am not trying to compare aikido with kendo! but thanks for the creative answer with 3 very important intellectual points (kendo is not aikido!)
lets get serious ...

the reason why i am asking was ;
as much as i know, i believe that hakama was something that samurai used to wear over their gi to protect themself while horseriding and to hide their feet movement.
as we are trying to follow the tradition, i was wondering why we dont wear the gi under ...

i guess the answer was logical .... HOT!
but this doesnt mean that people who practice aikido have air conditioning systems under their hakama!

[Neil Gendzwill]

I came from the other direction - after practising kendo, I trained aikido for a while. I never got good enough to wear hakama but I found wearing the pants underneath very strange - the combination of zubon, uwagi, obi and then hakama on top must be awfully bulky. I also found all the mysticism associated with the hakama (in that club) a little hard to swallow.

Wouldn't it be more comfy to just wear a pair of close-fitting shorts underneath for modesty and use a iaido-style obi to control the uwagi? That way there wouldn't be a knot.

[pamiro]

hi neil,
i know people who practice aikido with iaido-style obi but with the pants ....
but theres a guy in my aikido dojo who uses a cut pants under(like bermuda shorts)...that looks comfortable !

[GMason]

Coming from a Judo background, never very good, but the knees in the trousers always had a little bit of padding on them as well... Not loads but just a little.

Surely this would be another for wearing them under Hakama, especially the Tetron Hakama which can give you burns on your knees.

No jokes about carpet burns on the knees... please I already thought of that as I wrote the post ;-)

[nox]

i am not asking to wear gi (pants ) instead of the hakama, no need to be a rocket scientist to understand the difference of comfort ...

and i am not trying to compare aikido with kendo! but thanks for the creative answer with 3 very important intellectual points (kendo is not aikido!)
lets get serious ...

the reason why i am asking was ;
as much as i know, i believe that hakama was something that samurai used to wear over their gi to protect themself while horseriding and to hide their feet movement.
as we are trying to follow the tradition, i was wondering why we dont wear the gi under ...

i guess the answer was logical .... HOT!
but this doesnt mean that people who practice aikido have air conditioning systems under their hakama!

if you're going to try use a "tradition" arguement
dogi are actually a fairly recent creation iirc
the "traditional" garb was a kimono, with a kamishimo (heard of this, dunno what it is, assuming similar to haori) and hakama worn over it
for undergarments, most males had a fundoshi and....yea....a fundoshi

like i said, iirc, the whole dogi pants and such thing is actually rather recent
my guess is somewhere round meiji when more western clothing styles became popular in japan, but don't quote me on that
for some reason i think they're linked to Kano but once again, i'm not sure about that
on the flip side it think you should remember aikido actually isn't a traditional martial art in the sense of age and direct link to ancient traditions
its more of a rather recent (in a relative sense) synthesis of older traditional arts. keeping that in mind, aikido likely used what was used during its time, dogi
though in keeping with this current thought path i'm on, in the few pictures i've seen of kodokan judo during Kano's time; they didn't use dogi either

[Hiryu]

As a kendoka, I went to a seminar with Obata Toshishiro, where I was expecting to only do some sword work. If you have never seen this guy cut in person, it's an experience!
Anyway, He also teaches Aikijutsu, and started into some of these techniques and wanted me to try, so.... forgetting that I had no underwear under my Hakama, I proceeded toallow myself to be thrown. (Ugly Visual) But when you go flying Ass over teakettle, your Hakama legs kinda fly open and balloon out. wWith no support, "The Boys" start slamming around in an uncomfortable way.
Needless to say, the women in the class were looking at the ground trying not to laugh too loud...... Gi Pants, dont need em in Kendo.....Underwear, don't need em in kendo, But never fly without em.

[jasmine]

hi,why we dont wear gi under hakama?

That's because it is a tradition in ancient Japan.The kendoka wear nothing under hakama.
So many male(a little femal) kendoka wear nothing under hakama and many female kendoka wear nothing under kendogi now

[kgh]

In Japan you don't see dogi pants worn under a hakama. It seems to be something started "in the west". As for not wearing an obi..that is a sloppy habit of kendoka. :)

as much as i know, i believe that hakama was something that samurai used to wear over their gi to protect themself while horseriding and to hide their feet movement.
as we are trying to follow the tradition, i was wondering why we dont wear the gi under ...

Hakama were not just the dress of samurai. It was the common fashion of the day, just as kimono.(It is important to understand that there are variations, like field haks, which basically look like baggy trousers.). The myth that they were used to hide foot movement is widely spread, but is just that...a myth.

Aidoka started wearing hakama, because Ueshiba did not want people running about in their underwear, which is basically where the current dogi used in karate, judo, etc finds it roots. Later it became important in all arts, because practitioners did not want to ruin their daily clothes, particularly when the daily where of “gents” was a suit.

Sometimes I would love to wear my dogi under my hak in Iaido... Dojo in Japan are generally not heated or air-conditioned. The winters can get pretty brutal, however it is written policy that you only wear hak, kekogi and obi. (Yes underwear are allowed!). Other "optional/acceptable additions are knee pads and tabi.

[Bayushi-Shoju]

You do it because your Sensei Says so...
:ko:

[roar]

I came from the other direction - after practising kendo, I trained aikido for a while. I never got good enough to wear hakama but I found wearing the pants underneath very strange - the combination of zubon, uwagi, obi and then hakama on top must be awfully bulky. I also found all the mysticism associated with the hakama (in that club) a little hard to swallow.

Wouldn't it be more comfy to just wear a pair of close-fitting shorts underneath for modesty and use a iaido-style obi to control the uwagi? That way there wouldn't be a knot.


In aikido-circles the possibility of wearing hakama is humorusly referred to as "little shodan". I can see no good reason for not allowing hakama from day on, even though I think I have heard all the arguments. Just another way of marking hierarchy in budo.
Nobody wears Fundoshi, the traditional loincloth? I tried freeballing in kendo, didnt like it. Wearing pants under the hakama is just too hot, even in our arctic winters. When I did iai in a subzero environment on a concrete floor in a unheated aikidodojo for a whole winter, I used my judopants under.

[Hai_hai]

I like to be very very modest. So in my kendo days, I wore under my hakama, a pair of boxers over a pair of briefs over a pair of thong G-string bikini.

[Shiro]

I wear nothing under my hakama. underwear tends to bother me when I do a tobikomi.
What's wrong wearing it the scottish way? at least a hakama is longer than a kilt..... :p

[Hai_hai]

I wear nothing under my hakama. underwear tends to bother me when I do a tobikomi.
What's wrong wearing it the scottish way? at least a hakama is longer than a kilt..... :p

There's nothing wrong and no one said it was a problem. But, if you make a quick turn and your balls whip around, the consequences are a result of not wearing an athletic supporter.

[ALI G]

There's nothing wrong and no one said it was a problem. But, if you make a quick turn and your balls whip around, the consequences are a result of not wearing an athletic supporter.

In hai_haiz case going free-stylez or wearingz an athleticz zupporter wood not matterz...........he dozent have 2 worryz about da balls whipping aroundz becuz he doeznt have any....

Diz iz getting 2 E-Z.........

[roar]

I like to be very very modest. So in my kendo days, I wore under my hakama, a pair of boxers over a pair of briefs over a pair of thong G-string bikini.

In your kendodays? Last time i saw your name, I think you were just starting kendo. How long did your "good old kendo days" last really? 6 months?

[J. Schitt]

why doesnt kendoists wear gi under their hakamas like in aikido for example?

Try this.

Kendo wear is dereived from formal court wear, ie., the clothes that samurai wore when they were at work.

Other budo developed as defence against weapon bearing Samurai, ie., the arts devloped as a need for farmers to defend thmeselves.

Farmers could not afford expensive hi-tech weapons, such as the sword was at the time.

Farmers wore pants, because they worked in the field.

Samurai wore hakama and kimono style jackets.

J.

[Nanbanjin]

An interesting historical aside.

I have heard that in some (many?) medieval armies knights actually wore nappies because they used to crap themselves during battle.

[aru-ma]

An interesting historical aside.

I have heard that in some (many?) medieval armies knights actually wore nappies because they used to crap themselves during battle.

I think it's for conveniance (sp?) sake so they don't have to run and look for some bush around the corner when they have to go.

[Nanbanjin]

I think it's for conveniance (sp?) sake so they don't have to run and look for some bush around the corner when they have to go.
I'll buy that. Not as an argument for wearing nappies under by hakama though!

[Nanbanjin]

I remember something an instructor from Sydney who will remain nameless once said.
Freeballing in hakama is fine.
The only problem is the drips down your legs after you take a piss.

Only a freeballer knows the feeling :)

[Grautr]

I've practiced aikido for 14 years and kendo for only a couple of months now and I found it VERY strange to not wear dogi pants under my hakama. That, plus not wearing an obi means that I'm still a sartorial disaster :confused:

I don't buy the "too hot" argument though - I sweat lots in aikido and I've never thought of shedding my keks to cool down :grin:

Hi,
Of course the other way to look at it is it will make you sweat more and lose weight faster.

frith

[Grautr]

An interesting historical aside.

I have heard that in some (many?) medieval armies knights actually wore nappies because they used to crap themselves during battle.

Hi,
There is a book called 'War Dogs'. It is about British mercenaries fighting in the Bosnian war. The writer who was a sort of self styled platoon leader out there says that most people have little control over their body functions, no mater what the training, when faced with their own mortality.

be whole,

[aru-ma]

just slightly off topic, I find it very VERY difficult and annoying when I need to go to the bathroom wearing bogu, minus men and kote, especialy when you're waiting for a long time until your shiai starts, which I guess would be easier if you're going comando.

[Nanbanjin]

Hi,
There is a book called 'War Dogs'. It is about British mercenaries fighting in the Bosnian war. The writer who was a sort of self styled platoon leader out there says that most people have little control over their body functions, no mater what the training, when faced with their own mortality.

be whole,
Thanks. Unpleasant business really. I wonder how the Samurai coped.

[Shambler]

Hi,
Of course the other way to look at it is it will make you sweat more and lose weight faster.

frith

Only water weight. It's unhealthy to lose too much weight that way. Plus, you'll gain it back anyway.