Do you use videos to learn?

[The great I AM]

We all know that trying to learn by watching videos and stuff is bad when you first start out right? But as you have progressed, how many people out there start to use videos of shiai and stuff? I was watching a DVD today of an All Japan Taikai from a few years back and saw plenty that I felt was useful to me, so I wondered what other people think.....

Are you effected by watching videos? Does it make you try things differently? If so how? I know for a fact that one of the biggest mainstay techniques in my arsenal, and the one I would say I use most effectively actually came from watching videos, I was never taught it by anyone. Odd right? Does anyone else have anything like this? This technique for me was also helped by watching various different instances of it on a few videos and trying that stuff out and changing it to suit me and my kendo to make it my technique. I know that a couple of other things I've picked up have been stuff I've seen like this too.

Hopefully peeps can see this is a little further down the road than "you can't learn that way, get your arse into the dojo" so I'm interested to see how other people use video (but not your own, other people's!!), and what they look for.

The thing I was watching today was how various different people make their opponenent break their kamae (this is my big thing at the moment) and what they do immediately afterwards. It made the vid a whole lot more intersting for me, all of a sudden, as now it's not simply just a collection of Ippon with some Wow Wow ippon in it.

What about you lot?

[Peter West]

I also use video of myself training (from time to time) so that I can see weaknesses in my posture, bad timing, hesitations and so on.

Maybe twice a year...it's so revealing that if I did it more often I'd probably give up.

[ben]

As I'm not able to do full-on keiko as often as I like, I use anything I can to stay in touch. One of my faves is the Furukawa series on Youtube. I think watching his kendo and allowing it to sink in as a mental template of what I want my kendo to be, is useful.

On a related note, Chiba sensei said an interesting thing on one of his regular trips to Melbourne. He asked why, if we thought his kendo was worth emulating, was no-one doing more to copy his kendo. That got me thinking about how we, as kids, used to imitate the actions of our favourite sporting heroes, not just the actual techniques but the tics, the unique body language. I can't help thinking now that this is how kids learn more quickly and more deeply than most adults: unselfconscious (i.e. 無我) imitation.

And yes, I've gotten waza from watching videos rather than from being taught. I think there's a connection between being able to "see" the waza, the significance of it, and being ready to start applying it in your own kendo.

b

[un hartim]

From my beginner point of view, I like watching videos for these reasons:

a) Review concepts. For instance, kendo kata or similar. It helps me to remember points, I can check as many times as I need things such as posture, footwork... Of course is an overview. It is like doing homework, therefore my sensei and sempais can focus their teaching in "those" things that videos don't show. They don't need waste their time with details such as starting with right foot forward, or you do kote, he does men. They show us how to do that kote properly, but you know where things are coming from...roughly

b) Shiai, taikais... or well. I'm sure that people like The big I am and other high level kendokas, can spot things and learn about what I have not idea at all. And even using slow motion and watching the same movements 100 hundreds time, it's still very blur for me. But, IMO are highly motivating, even if you don't know what's going on, you feel "something" that push you to grab your shinai and keep on practising. I watch those videos for the sake of entertainment and inspiration.

[Suiken]

A few years ago I attended a special shiai training lesson in the Alster Dojo in Hamburg with Robin G. While the shiai-geiko a girl was filming us and after shower we met in the tea room (that dojo really has one!) and watched the video while having dinner together. Robin who has been quite successfull internationally about 10 years ago, could gave a lot of comments that helped me improve a lot and understand the side of the shimpan more. Even today I use every chance to watch videos with kendo practitioners that are more experienced than I, because they can explain and show details I would not have seen by myself.

[H.Sandsleth]

Yes. I look at technical details, how they move etc, and try to pick up things that can be useful for me. When it comes to shiai, I'm particularily looking at "fight management" or what I should call it.

[Suiken]

I should read my posts twice before I post them. Sorry guys (and girls), hope it's still understandable.

[Kapplow]

I stole a hiki waza from the Furukawa videos. The one where he fakes dou and goes into hikimen. I ended up winning an ippon shobu in keiko against a yondan. When we went back to sonkyo I thought we were done and he says, "No no, NIHONME!" hehe won that one too :)(or maybe he let me win).

I remember reading some Kendo OG said, "Steal the Kendo from the other man".

I think it's good to learn from anything we can whether it's videos, books, mitori geiko.

[MikeW]

Previous sensei I have had always encouraged watching video to look at specifics of kendo, but they have also warned that watching shiai kendo many times will do nothing for your shinsa preparation. Often times sensei would make clips or point out clips that had something they specifically wanted to look at. Of course watching your own kendo on video can be quite illuminating (and sometimes quitre deflating) and that is also encouraged.

[michaelm]

The 100 men and 100 kote videos posted earlier were really helpful, especially with the slo-mo replays.
In the Men video in particular, it was interesting to see them create openings, with seme and using the whole body to pressure prior to actually swinging the shinai for the men hit.
For many of the examples, the slo-mo clearly shows that they've already won before they hit.
Seme-uchi is one of the many things I've been stuggling with to move my kendo into the next level. Often times I attack not because I have control or have created an opening, but because I'm impatient or being solely reactive.

+1 on the Furukawa videos, too, especially in regards to maai and footwork.

[Maku-san]

I think videos are the best things to use when doing kendo, whether it is of other kendoka or of yourself in keiko.

Football (American style, that is! :D) teams use video to see how their upcoming opponents react to certain formations. (Yeah, I know about the New England Patriots' super-humongous cluster-bleep...damn them! The NFL shoulda made them give up the Super Bowl win to the Rams! :jaguar:)

Mark :beard:

[shred_lord]

Mitori Geiko.

It would be better to see it in person, but barring that videos have got to be a valid method of mitori geiko surely. Plus, with a video you can rewind and watch the important bit again.

[Wookiesmurf]

I also use video of myself training (from time to time) so that I can see weaknesses in my posture, bad timing, hesitations and so on.

Maybe twice a year...it's so revealing that if I did it more often I'd probably give up.

I hear that. It's a great way to see what you're doing, but not exactly a confidence booster.
I also watch videos of sensei from time to time. Usually not looking at anything in particular (though it happens), just trying to "absorb" the feeling of his technique.

[ShinKenshi]

After practice a couple months ago we all went to one of my dojo-mate's house and watched videos of ourselves having keiko with our sensei. He would point out a few things that really stood out and show us how to correct it. It was a real eye-opener for me and I was able to see little things that I didn't even know I was doing. I think it's great to watch videos of yourself periodically so you can better evaluate your progress and figure out specific things to work on.

[Roberto]

I think videos are the best things to use when doing kendo, whether it is of other kendoka or of yourself in keiko.

Football (American style, that is! :D) teams use video to see how their upcoming opponents react to certain formations. (Yeah, I know about the New England Patriots' super-humongous cluster-bleep...damn them! The NFL shoulda made them give up the Super Bowl win to the Rams! :jaguar:)

Mark :beard:

American football is like European style ;)

[jjcruiser]

The NFL shoulda made them give up the Super Bowl win to the Rams! :jaguar:)

Mark :beard:

"Mark" from Hawaii?

Or....

"Matt" from Hawaii! (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3226465)

[Kagerou]

Mitori Geiko.



I think as long as you realise that a video is no substitute for an actual teacher there's nothing wrong with it.

However, anything you do pick up you should talk about with your sensei. Both to make sure you're interpreting it correctly and to make sure you're at a level where they think it's appropriate for you.

[xvikingx]

I've gotten some ideas from watching videos but I can't say I've actually learned something from a video or that video has been a supplement in my kendo. That medium just may not be helpful for me or perhaps I'm just not at a level wher I can see and then do. I suck.
One thing I'd like to do is periodically (maybe three times a year) video tape myself, to see my form and how I progress.

[jjcruiser]

At my very, very basic level, I'm still just trying to cut properly and not lean over when I get a target in front of me. So instructional videos and tournament videos are fun to watch but not really helpful yet. Maybe when I get better.

OTOH, one video I saw, I think from that cyberdojo place, made a point about fumikomi (to try to use your right leg to pull/draw up the left quicker), and I've found that pretty helpful.

I think video taping our class would be very cool and helpful, but as low person on the totem pole, I think I'll wait for someone else to suggest it.

[Kagerou]

I think video taping our class would be very cool and helpful, but as low person on the totem pole, I think I'll wait for someone else to suggest it.

Why wait? I doubt your sensei would get angry with you. He may say it's too much work and too hard to coordinate but that's another matter.

If you're too embarrassed to ask in front of everyone ask him in private after class. Just don't be surprised if you get put in charge of setting it up ;)

[Zornocology]

I LOVE video as a learning tool. Video of my own classes I find most useful. It's one thing to hear your sensei tell you what you're doing wrong but when you can actually see it, you really understand. Still photos can accompolish this too.

I find videos of others useful too for observing techniques but I still feel that I don't yet know enough to see everything that is going on.

[Geordie Bruiser]

I recently bought a DVD of the All Japans the Miyazaki years.
I have studied it depth and it has given me lots of ideas about how I should be moving and when to really exert pressure
Plus I have started using one of the incredible Oji Waza that he uses, which seems to be working for me too.
So I would say that using video can be very beneficial.

[bobdonny]

I think we should use everything at all possible to learn. Videos are great aswell if you specifically want to learn something otherwise its usually just kendo watching for the craic.

[Charlie]

I certainly do this. Sometimes it's hard to take something away from the viewing that I can use, or I see something I'd like to be able to do and no real idea how to get myself to do it.

I think imitation is an important part of kendo training that we don't do often enough, don't you? I have been encouraging my kohai in this, myself.

[Curtis]

I cannot imagine not using video. And still I just struggle along.

[Zornocology]

I think imitation is an important part of kendo training that we don't do often enough, don't you? I have been encouraging my kohai in this, myself.

yes, absolutely... although, i know myself that sometimes i will imitate a technique i saw performered (usually something i saw done live... not a video) and very quickly be told that i should wait and do that later on... ei// hiki waza

[Toshiro Mifune]

I watch both but mainly in instructional videos I might see or hear something I have never heard of before which helps because people think different. Essentially there might be the same points and same message being conveyed but a different way of achieving or explaining it. Shiai videos maybe there might be a technique I try but now more so I watch it to see what did both the kendoka do to end up having one score a point. They are more advanced and depending on the shiai for their level the goal is to win. My goal is to do good kendo and it would be nice for the result to win. But winning with a basic men, kote, do, etc against a tough opponent is more rewarding then using some new advanced technique that wasn't really mastered yet. Although I wish the would digitally remaster or release on DVD some of the older AJKC before the Miyazaki reign. It is quiet interesting if you see some of those with Nishikawa Sensei, Ishida Sensei and some others. Tapes are ok but the quality is not as good as DVD. But who knows in a couple I will probably be watching kendo on Blu Ray.

[Maku-san]

"Mark" from Hawaii?

Or....

"Matt" from Hawaii! (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3226465)

***ROFLMAO*** :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Dude... you just hit the jackpot with PosRep!!!

Mark from Hawaii :beard: The St. Louis Rams #1 Fan in Hawaii!!!! :D

[kendokawannabe]

I am definitely in the pro-video column. I find it to be a very effective tool as I've progressed in both iaido and kendo. I think it helps me to see myself from my sensei's point of view where I can say "oh that's what your talking about." when I'm given a correction that I might not understand if I can't see it.

[cjjrwe]

We learn in many different ways, watching others is one way, and watching videos is an extension of that. It can complement the dojo time.

[JoDuncan]

I stole a hiki waza from the Furukawa videos........

^Ditto^

I was so happy when I actually pulled off a half decent looking and effective waza!

[JByrd]

I cannot imagine not using video. And still I just struggle along.

I feel the same way. Especially since I was in the hinterlands for such a long time, with few chances to keiko with better players.

We used to record the last part of class, then go to my house afterward and have a video party with beer, soda pop, and snacks. We could easily spend hours watching 20 minutes of video, using frame by frame advance, and focusing on different aspects of our execution. Sometimes I would give everyone a laugh by showing them the video of the awesome and terrifying Mr. Miyazaki giving me a tour of the dojo. I don't think it's THAT funny, but my students seemed to think so.

I have recorded all of the shinsa attempts I've made. I try to get my friends as well, and make copies for them. Sometimes people do the same for me (thanx Gideon!).

I have a precious store of video clips I've taken of my "Kendo heroes," a few teachers whose Kendo I most want to emulate. I watch them over and over and dissect every little thing. Recently I am watching all those vids yet again, focusing on the path their shinai takes through space. Compared to video of me, I can see I have unnecessary movement in my shinai, and poor posture at the transition point between the up and down swing.

I like instructional videos, like those of Mr. Furukawa and Mr. Kobayashi.

I once connected my video camera to my TV, and placed them at a right angle so I could look straight ahead and see my swing from the side in real time. Freaky!

I get the least out of shiai videos. Though they are fun to watch in terms of opportunity creation, the form I see is often not what I'd like to emulate. I load my laptop with Youtube Kendo vids and watch them during down time in planes/airports, etc.

I like to watch videos of my Kendo heroes, or instructional videos, right before I go to the dojo. It sets a clear image in my head about what I want to do in keiko.

[Jordan Lavin]

We can all learn from this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMbTHgnXudI

and I will end my fun for the night.

Anyway videos as tool for learning are helpful should they take up more than 10-15% of how you learn? Probably not.

[Bokushingu]

this is a kewl thread don't know how I missed it. I use video in a different way; it comes from my boxing past. I watch mostly competition videos not to see the form but to see how they won or how they lost. When my trainer started to take on pro-fighters (inorder to keep his gym alive) he had study night for the pros that had sign a contract for a fight. I was fortunate enough to be allowed to come over & listen. he would go over every aspect of the signed opponents fights. My old trainer, Jesse Valdez, believed that you(while an ameatur) needed to study the great fighters to see how they won or lost so you can apply your own style to those situations. He also believed you had to be able to self-analize at the moment: which means without watching a video of yourself you should know when you made a crucial mistake & how you made it, when you missed an oppertunity or didn't capitalize on their mistakes during the match--then use the video of yourself to confirm after the fight. Even if we weren't fighting that day he made it mandatory for us to go to every fight and watch every match, especially someone that fought like a person that gave you problems.

I brought that to kendo. I pretty much just rely on my Sensei' & Sempai to teach me stuff & clean my form. I try to remember how my body felt each moment when doing all types of keiko:Kihon ,kata, Jigeiko, shiai. But i will spend hours watching the best Kendo players in the world play difficult matches. When i go to taikai I try to watch the most competitive divisions(Women's Dan, SanDan-YonDan) & see how they won or lost. I make it a point watch/study my division(Kyu) and the next division up (Shodan-NiDan) for potential people I will have to play in the near future--many in my club do not agree with me watching for that reason. they feel it is not an honorable Kendo way & you should only watch to learn good form or to enjoy. But i just keep it to myself for myself.
I only watch my videos if I lost and want to confirm what I felt. or if there's something that bothers me that I couldn't figure out.

Sometime i wish the really effective players that I watch would remember their matchs. I watch their matches & then when i see them in person i ask them but they usually don't remember much about it...I guess it's just a moment in the past for them. so i have so many question about those matches in my journal that I can't put answers to...

[kendogrl]

I've actually ordered a video because I couldn't get to a dojo. And I will admit it is nothing like having an actual sensei where you can ask question and here the history behind it. Although for the basics and getting the feel of kendo it is helpful. I just wouldn't rely on it. But it is something that is there.

[Unixg0d]

Some of you have the Furuwaka DVDs? i cant find some supplier to purchase it from!

[Abramo]

One aspect I like about videos is that it reminds you of elements you might have forgotten, or even introduces you to things you didn't know existed. I'm talking mostly about the various kinds of waza. Kendo has in fact a veeeeery large array of different techniques and no dojo has time to go over even most of them. Watching them on video gives you an idea of the broader world out there.
It's also great for us who can't actually do real mitori-geiko in the highest-level taikai and dojo world-wide (mostly Japan).

As far as using it as a learning tool, I agree that it's good given you have the proper critical mind to see what you can learn from it and to check with your sensei anything you want to bring from "outside" the dojo.

My own sensei, who's quite a traditional guy keiko-wise, told me videos and books are good to complement your practice. I really wish I could film myself often (or at all, actually). Hopefully I'll be able to do it soon, and film sensei too and use it when I'm away.