ji geiko

[decembersnow6]

hi guys! i am need of your assitance again! whenever my sensei wants me to do ji geiko with my sempais, i always will attack "men", not able to hit it and ended up in taitari(spelling correct?). i will rarely go for kote and almost never for do, it is very awkward to just hit a target over and over again, and my sempai always wait for me to make the first move...... any suggestions? :cyclops:
thanx in advance

[nodachi]

First off, there is nothing wrong with hitting men men men men men... It is your basic waza. Everything comes from it (or just about everything), so why not work on improving it. I've had sensei have me practice only men on them for 15 minutes straight until they were happy with it, sometimes longer.

As for always ending up in Taiatari, you have to force yourself to run through. It is kinda a defensive mechanism for you to want to charge into taiatari because it kinda feels like you will pin up the persons arms so they can't attack you back. Force yourself to run through! It is better kendo and points from taiatari rarely score anyway, at least as beginners, so it's better to avoid being in taiatari anyway. RUN THROUGH! If the opponent doesn't move, plow through, because he should be dead anyway.

Force yourself to try kote or do, although do is the hardest of them all. If your senpai are waiting for you to make the first move, maybe they are leaving an openning for you to attack. Check their kamae, is it off a little? Attack what is open.

Final advice, ji geiko is experimentation time. Try the things you are good at, but force yourself to do something different. Then is the time to go for the waza that you want to try out for the first time. Work them out and learn to use them. It doesn't matter if they go well or not, you can fix them over time.

[Sbres]

"RUN THROUGH! If the opponent doesn't move, plow through, because he should be dead anyway."

I've never thought of it like that as I always end up in taiatari too. Although I can now do the basics ok (I hope) I still tend to end up in taiatari and have nowhere to go. When I try and run through I often feel i'm doing something wrong if I half-clobber the guy or girl i've just attacked with my body (although I know I shouldn't be sorry) because like you said
"he should be dead anyway"

[Neil Gendzwill]

Your sempai are waiting for you because you're a beginner and right now jigeiko shouldn't be much different than kakarigeiko for you.

Terminology: taiatari is the body crash, tsuba-zeriai is the position after the crash when you are tsuka to tsuka.

One reason beginners find themselves in tsuba-zeriai a lot is that when their technique fails, they stop, usually right in front of their opponent. Try to finish your attack the same whether you connect or not. You should be speeding up after the hit, not slowing down. If you properly follow through with your attack, your sempai is likely to let you by.

If you don't go through you have 3 main options. Option #1 is to taiatari and immediately rebound and seperate. Advanced variation on that is to hit something on the way back. Option #2 is to stick around in tsuba-zeriai and look for an opportunity to hit a backwards technique. Option #3 is a mutual truce, where you slowly withdraw from each other. At your level I recommend #1 - just body crash, rebound back to proper distance and try again. Don't try any backward waza just yet.

[Sanjuro]

Neil gives some good advice. I just want to add that if you do try hiki-waza (backwards technique) make sure you clear enough space between you and your opponent before you strike. This is a bad habit I am always watching myself for. It is always tempting to strike as soon as you push away because it is a natural reflex to think that your sempai will strike you before you do. However if you do you will hit your target on the bottom half of the blade...which would not be a valid hit. Also...as everyone in this thread is saying...try some other kihon waza like do and kote. Just remember not to throw technique out the window during jigeiko.

[Shazzanzzz]

what's wrong with just doing men? Everything should start with men and end with men anyways. When I'm doing ji-geiko with someone, or tournament, i always start with attacking men. If you can beat them with just men, why use anything else? If you're a beginner, men is all you should worry about, all other cuts are pointless.

Your sempais wait for you because you're a beginner, so, they want you to attack a lot, don't worry about losing. If they start attacking a lot, you'll have the bad habit of trying to block too much, that's why they don't attack most likely. Just keep going for men over and over and over. When i face someone i know i have no chance of beating, like high ranking senseis, taht's what i do. Because, trying other stuff are useless anyways, so, just do men and show your skills.

[Nanbanjin]

hi guys! i am need of your assitance again! whenever my sensei wants me to do ji geiko with my sempais, i always will attack "men", not able to hit it and ended up in taitari(spelling correct?). i will rarely go for kote and almost never for do, it is very awkward to just hit a target over and over again, and my sempai always wait for me to make the first move...... any suggestions? :cyclops:
thanx in advance
How you play jigeiko will depend a lot on the approach of the moto-dachi.
The Ji in jigeiko comes from jiriki, which means "fundamantal strength" or something thereabouts. Jigeiko is any type of keiko that builds on this.
Jigeiko could be kikikaeshi, uchikomi-geiko, kakari-gaiko, tachiai-geiko, gokaku-gaiko etc. If in your case you are just hitting men and the moto-dachi is happy with that I think that is fine.

I used to mistakenly think that the ji from jigeiko meant "free", but this is incorrect.
"Free sparring" where both opponents attack each other on equal terms as using all their techniques is more correctly called "gokaku-geiko".
In your case I am sure that just men fine.

I have been told that in kendo "men" is everything, and all other techniques are just accessories. So just training men is a great way to improve your kendo.

[Nanbanjin]

[QUOTE=Nanbanjin]
Jigeiko could be kikikaeshi....
QUOTE]
Sorry, I meant kirikaeshi.

[jasmine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by decembersnow6
hi guys! i am need of your assitance again! whenever my sensei wants me to do ji geiko with my sempais, i always will attack "men", not able to hit it and ended up in taitari(spelling correct?). i will rarely go for kote and almost never for do, it is very awkward to just hit a target over and over again, and my sempai always wait for me to make the first move...... any suggestions?
thanx in advance I think

I think it is not bad always hit "men".but maybe ur senpai can change a little sometimes.for example let u hit his kote or do.that is "kote-men"/"men-men"/"kote-do"/"kote-men-do",then u will not feel boring.
on the other hand,plz pay attention use ur power on ur left hand or u can not hit men correctly .And pay more attention on ur leg(moving).
Hitting by leg is better than hitting by hand!!!

[Yowai]

Hitting by leg is better than hitting by hand!!!
Yes! Punching does limited damage. Kicks to the head and groin will drop the opponent quickly.

[Sbres]

So this presents the question:
"When are you ready to move on from men and start doing dou hits etc?"
I know the most obvious answer would be after gaining enough confidence but on a time scale when would you be expected to try other moves?
(I will soon have completed my first year of kendo and and I often try other moves although I still fail regulary when I aim for the kote. My opponents are usually 2 dan High School/University students)

[Shinaido]

Yes! Punching does limited damage. Kicks to the head and groin will drop the opponent quickly.

ROFLMBO

Yowai, are you, by chance, in the field of law?

Jonathan

[ALI G]

Yowai, are you, by chance, in the field of law?

Ders no weyz in da hellz dat puzzy iz 5-0.....

[dh song]

First off, there is nothing wrong with hitting men men men men men... It is your basic waza. Everything comes from it (or just about everything), so why not work on improving it. I've had sensei have me practice only men on them for 15 minutes straight until they were happy with it, sometimes longer.

As for always ending up in Taiatari, you have to force yourself to run through. It is kinda a defensive mechanism for you to want to charge into taiatari because it kinda feels like you will pin up the persons arms so they can't attack you back. Force yourself to run through! It is better kendo and points from taiatari rarely score anyway, at least as beginners, so it's better to avoid being in taiatari anyway. RUN THROUGH! If the opponent doesn't move, plow through, because he should be dead anyway.

Force yourself to try kote or do, although do is the hardest of them all. If your senpai are waiting for you to make the first move, maybe they are leaving an openning for you to attack. Check their kamae, is it off a little? Attack what is open.

Final advice, ji geiko is experimentation time. Try the things you are good at, but force yourself to do something different. Then is the time to go for the waza that you want to try out for the first time. Work them out and learn to use them. It doesn't matter if they go well or not, you can fix them over time.


hey

when u attack men, u stomp with ur right foot for transfering the body weight, right? and after you push yourself with your left leg, ur left leg is straight back as you strike men, right? so at the moment your shinai strikes your target area, only ur right foot should be touching the ground for maximum weight transfer (u stand only with right foot for a brief moment)
AM I right or wrong?

In my dojo, many people don't strike men like I explained above. People in our dojo including the sensei just step/slide forward and stomp with their right foot as they strike the men. I m the only one who's trying to strike men with one leg standing. I tried both methods, and I found that one leg standing method is better. I can strike men with more accuracy and more speed, and if I miss I can go through my opponent easier than when I just step/slide forward.
What should I do? Should I go with flow? since nobody does it in our dojo. Or should I keep practicing in my way?
I am a beginner, just in case if you wanna know.

[Shazzanzzz]

i do the step and slide then stomp like you talked about. THis way, you odn't waste any motions, and the only difrection you're going is straight forward. I never knew this, but, people tell me my left foot does leave the ground when i do attacks, which isn't really a bad thing or good thing, it's just how it is. Everyone's left foot has to leave the ground at some point anyways though, since after the stomp, it'll draw the left foot forward, so, it has to leave the ground.

[Relic]

So this presents the question:
"When are you ready to move on from men and start doing dou hits etc?"

When you have been introduced to a new technique, and feel confident that you can at least hit the target while in motion, you are encouraged to try it out. If in doubt, ask.
Beware that some techniques can be dangerous to experiment with. Particularly tsuki should be avoided for some time. I have seen a couple of beginners try to do some weird things that could have ended real bad. None of them from my own club I might add. ;-)

[lwegerich]

whenever my sensei wants me to do ji geiko with my sempais, i always will attack "men", not able to hit it and ended up in taitari(spelling correct?).

Jigeiko is about finding "openings" in the opponents kamae. This can be done by pure pressure (seme) and confidence or destroying the opponents kamae actively like using harai waza. Combination of both is just fine. ;)

Difficulty when training with higher ranks is, that it is not easy because they have more seme than you and their kamae can't be destroyed that easily. Nevertheless my point can be a clue for you what to look for in the next jigeiko.

Stop worrying thinking like "my men strikes never come through" or stuff like that. If you think this they will never come through. If you want do a short exercise right now. Stand up and think actively about "going backwards" while trying to walk forward. See?

Be confident in your skills how limited they may be. But don't be careless, too. Don't bother of getting hit just bring your technique. There is a saying in Kendo about "throwing yourself away" when attacking. This is the right spirit to do jigeiko.

As others said jigeiko is meant for experimenting with waza, seme and so on.
Try to bring some techniques you practised right before the jigeiko.