Shouting out the targets?

[Dark Protector]

One of the things, that I saw in the kendo club, is that, they had to yell out the targets that they were going to hit. I asked why, the person said it was part of the tecknque. That i understood. But, Why do they do it? Why don't other arts do that, is what i'm trying to ask. Anyone understand the question?


Dark protector

[olaf]

Dark Protector -

Good question indeed. I'm not an expert on other martial arts, but as far as the "shouting" in kendo is concerned:

The shouting is called "kiai". One's kiai is supposed to reflect your spirit, and is central to the notion of "scoring a point" in kendo. A point is only valid if one strikes with proper bodily form, correct shinai movement, and strong kiai. This is to ensure that the strike was not "accidental", that the player truly intended to make the attack, and gave it 101% of his effort in pursuing that point. Hence the target's name is called out as part of the kiai, to reflect proper intent.

Does that make sense? Notions of kiai and "ki-ken-tai-ichi" (I'll let others here explain that) are difficult to grasp, especially at such an early stage in your kendo career. Even for those of us who have been practicing for a while, they're still elusive concepts at best!

Here's an analogy I can draw for you: do you play pool/billiards? If you do (or have seen people doing so), you'll often see players "call" their shots before they make them. They'll say, for instance, "number 9 ball in corner pocket", then proceed to shoot. That way, if another ball gets pocketed, or the 9 goes into another pocket, we'll know the "point" was a fluke and not the intended action of the player.

Your next question will probably be: then why do some players not explicitly kiai/shout out "target names" (ie, kote, men, etc.) but rather just scream like banshees? Indeed, you'll generally notice more advanced players with kiai that aren't exactly target names, but just loud, intimidating sounds. In such cases, the spirit and strong will reflected by their kiai is sufficient to demonstrate their intent in attacking, and there's no need to specifically call out target names. I might add that as you progress in your kendo career, you'll develop a unique, "signature" kiai of your own, and will eventually abandon straight-out calling target names when you play.

A rather long answer, but by all means too short to answer such a complicated question.

Folks, anyone wish to further comment?

[midnightdawn]

tee hee

Since it is my signature, I'll quickly explain what "Ki Ken Tai Ichi" is.
All it is, is a kendo motto of sorts meaning "spirit sword body as one"

This also kind of defines in a way how you score a point in a kendo match. Your kiai, hit and footwork much all be together for it to be considered a point. But in general, though, the entire martial art embodies the idea bringing your spirit, sword and body together as one entity of sorts. (I'ts 4:42 am, so I hope this 2nd paragraph isn't too broken up or confusing. :silly: )

[mystic_kendoka]

in most other martial arts, you get a point for making your opponent fall, and half a point if you make him/her stumble... in other martial arts you dont need to take care of where youre attacking, as long as it has the correct effect

in kendo you get points for hitting the targets, and none of them apart from tsuki, are likely to make an opponent drop to the floor,

also as olaf said, to make sure it wasnt a mistake...

[Dark Protector]

Thanks guys. I understand it now. :)

Dark Protector

[AlexM]

I'd like to point out that I've never been told to "call" out what I was going to hit before doing it. Even as a beginner. We were told to say "kote" or "men" or "dou" but more as a suggestion I think, never as an obligation (or at least they never made it sound like an obligation).

Kiai can be anything: I once made the beginners make barnyard animal sounds because they were as loud as carps... They got louder real fast :D .

[Hai_hai]

One of the things, that I saw in the kendo club, is that, they had to yell out the targets that they were going to hit. I asked why, the person said it was part of the tecknque. That i understood. But, Why do they do it? Why don't other arts do that, is what i'm trying to ask. Anyone understand the question?


Dark protector
Start yelling "Balls!" when kicking your opponent's balls.

[mystic_kendoka]

the above note is retarded and u'll be banned from ur dojo/tournament if u try this

[Hai_hai]

the above note is retarded and u'll be banned from ur dojo/tournament if u try this

Really? Oh my gosh. Thanks for telling me. Now I can win all my future tournaments.

[mystic_kendoka]

ur welcome

[J. Schitt]

One of the things, that I saw in the kendo club, is that, they had to yell out the targets that they were going to hit. I asked why, the person said it was part of the tecknque. That i understood. But, Why do they do it? Why don't other arts do that, is what i'm trying to ask. Anyone understand the question?


By using your kiai and the name of the taget it shows your intention to strike THAT target and not just connect by accident.

J.

[Olddog_newstick]

I might add that as you progress in your kendo career, you'll develop a unique, "signature" kiai of your own, and will eventually abandon straight-out calling target names when you play.




The senior kenshi (4th dan) in our club fights in the above manner.
He never calls his targets and rarely makes any sound at all while he fights.
By sound I mean vocalization of course.

Old dog

[mystic_kendoka]

but doesnt your kiai have to at least resemble the original kiai?

[Rawoo]

omg this is so funny

by shouting out the target's name u are telling whoever is watching the match what u intend to hit, so if u yell MEN and actually hit KOTE then no point.

"balls" LOL
U'd be extremely skilled to score with balls!
:rolleyes:

[Andoru]

Someone who practices at my dojo on Saturdays shout "assssssssss" all the time...so was he trying to hit.... :D

[Rawoo]

I doubt it
some guy in my club usually did "Ssssaaaa......!!!!"
But hey I think "balls" is a good word for kiai, dont believe me try it urself

[ALI G]

I doubt it
some guy in my club usually did "Ssssaaaa......!!!!"
But hey I think "balls" is a good word for kiai, dont believe me try it urself

If youz seyz "ballz"....Iz respondz wid "Youz dontz gotz anyz..."

[yangs]

My sensei says, kiai out the target you going to hit concentrate all resources to that point. So he always ask begginers to kiai so that they could make kikentaichi later.

[Wout]

Someone who practices at my dojo on Saturdays shout "assssssssss" all the time...so was he trying to hit.... :D
THose are the ppl that really try to score something :D

[not-I]

Hmm, i've never heard anyone kiai the target before striking, at least not more that a split-second or two before. Generally, you call out the target (men, kote, do, tsuki) at the same time you strike it. It serves the same purpose as others mentioned, namely showing the judges that you intended that target and didn't just stumble into hitting it. But on a more "esoteric" level, and as the kanji characters for it suggest, your kiai expresses the unity of your spirit in striking.

But there is another kind of kiai that you use while not actually striking a target, which tends to be an incomprehensible sound, generally when you are in kamae with the opponent. It expresses your spirit and determination, and if it is strong, it may also affect the spirit and determination of the opponent.

As mentioned in a previous thread on "kiai", it is essential that your kiai comes from your belly (or more specifically, from your hara) and is not a scream from your throat. One way to test if this is the case is to try katate-men without your armor. As your right hand should be holding your hara, you feel it contract as you strike and release your kiai. If not, you need to develop it. As you learn to do it correctly, you'll probably start feeling sore stomach muscles after practice, along with the rest of your muscles :)

Besides being a Kendoka, I'm also a practicing Zen Buddhist, and I've found that the kind of abdominal breathing practiced in zazen (meditaion) and sutra recitation is exactly the same as what one is looking for in Kendo, and not just while doing kiai. In fact, any kind of discipline that involves abdominal breathing (zen meditation, yoga, professional singing, etc.) will most definately help your Kendo!

Hope this is of interest,
not-I

[lancerwilliams]

I'd like to point out that I've never been told to "call" out what I was going to hit before doing it. Even as a beginner. We were told to say "kote" or "men" or "dou" but more as a suggestion I think, never as an obligation (or at least they never made it sound like an obligation).

Kiai can be anything: I once made the beginners make barnyard animal sounds because they were as loud as carps... They got louder real fast :D .

So you don't actually have to call out "kote", "men", or "dou"?

[mystic_kendoka]

we had some newbies kiaiing they're name, it doesnt matter what you kiai i guess.. as long as it isnt rude...

[not-I]

lol :smiley:

that sounds like Timmy from South Park... "TIMMMMYYYYYYYY"

women's kiai can also be rather disarming, especially when they do the banshee scream!

but again, aside from the "extra" kiai from kamae, unless you're advanced, it's always best to kiai the target name at the same time you strike it.


we had some newbies kiaiing they're name, it doesnt matter what you kiai i guess.. as long as it isnt rude...