Straight Bokken

[GZA]

I went to get my first Bokken, But the only place in my area that sells them is some asian gift store in the mall and the only decent one i could find is straight.

Should i get a curved one online or is this one ok? I hear the point of useing Bokken is to get a feel for the cutting edge of the sword, will the lack of a cruve be a problem or can i wait 6 mounths and get a better one when i put in a order for Bogu?

[xvikingx]

I went to get my first Bokken, But the only place in my area that sells them is some asian gift store in the mall and the only decent one i could find is straight.

Should i get a curved one online or is this one ok? I hear the point of useing Bokken is to get a feel for the cutting edge of the sword, will the lack of a cruve be a problem or can i wait 6 mounths and get a better one when i put in a order for Bogu?

The point of getting a bokken is to do kata. You won't get the feel for the cutting edge of the sword curved or not.
It would be a waste of money. Order a bokken meant for kendo kata online, they are all regulated so there is no need to concern yourself with size and curvature.

[GZA]

ok. Thank You.

[ShinKenshi]

I agree with xvikingx, mall shops never sell quality goods or products meant for our specific needs. Order a bokken from reputable retailers like ebogu (http://www.ebogu.com/), boguzen (http://www.boguzen.com/), or e-mudo (http://www.e-mudo.com/) to name a few. Get a red or white oak bokken as these woods are affordable and are excellent for the periodic contact that is made during kata.

[GZA]

ok. i don't want to put in an order for just one thing, so i'll wait untill i get some bogu or start learning kata (whatever happens first) I have my Keikogi, Hakama and Shinai from E-Bogu so i'll just get it from them.

[xvikingx]

ok. i don't want to put in an order for just one thing, so i'll wait untill i get some bogu or start learning kata (whatever happens first) I have my Keikogi, Hakama and Shinai from E-Bogu so i'll just get it from them.

Seems like the smart thing to do considering most places don't practice kata regularly.

[Malkie_Nek]

It was a little awkward to me first when GZA said "i'll wait untill i get some bogu or start learning kata (whatever happens first)", but then xvikingx clarified that "most places don't practice kata regularly".
Then it occurred to me: why?
I mean, where and when I practiced, keiko were always like that: a little stretching, warm up, some jougeburi and suburi, then kata, then practice some specific waza, then shiai, then kirikaeshi and kakarigeiko. And then beer when it was not week days. :D
How it's been in other dojos?

[MikeW]

One dojo I practice with does kata pretty much every practice, the other one does kata once a month.

[ShinKenshi]

Same, at my dojo we practice kata every Tuesday but occasionally, usually a couple weeks before a tournament, we'll skip kata. I was always taught that without kata, you're doing nothing more than swinging sticks. Without kata, you don't have kendo and you loose a very important aspect in your kendo.

[swyn]

As S sensei from Yamaguchi Japan who does both Iaido and Kendo put it at the Iaido camp in Bryn Mawr PA, Kendo kata has all Kamae required in Kendo/Iaido movements, thus is very important to learn.

Yuko

[xvikingx]

Then it occurred to me: why?

Good question.
In my experience (mostly in Japan) most places don't practice kata regularly. Most of the time it is only done before grading. I would venture to guess that two reasons for this is lack of interest and time. I get the feeling that alot people don't feel a contection between kata and the rest of kendo, it's just something you do for tests. I've been shocked at how many 6-dan+ are not very good at kata or don't really understand it.
Time; perhaps they feel time is better spent on other aspects of kendo. If you only have an hour practice, 10 minutes spent on kata could mean one or two fewer rounds of jigeiko for everyone.
I've recently decided that I am going to participate in the seasonal kata seminars my local federation sets up, because there is not enough kata in my kendo diet.

[xvikingx]

As S sensei from Yamaguchi Japan who does both Iaido and Kendo put it at the Iaido camp in Bryn Mawr PA, Kendo kata has all Kamae required in Kendo/Iaido movements, thus is very important to learn.

Yuko

I don't see it being important in this way. For kendo you really only have chudan, jodan, and nito. And with seitei iai you don't really go into kamae, you draw and cut. Jodan is performed with zanshin at the end of several kata but it's not a kamae you take in order to make a certain cut. Also wakigamae is performed in the 10th kata but it's only transitional.
I just picked up the KW kata book and it has a very interesting bit on the history and philosophy of kata, and break down of each one. It has me re-thinking what I believed to be the purpose.

[Malkie_Nek]

Well, perhaps it's because I've always practiced kata, but, even thought shiai and kata are pretty different, I can't see kendo as a martial art you can perform only with a shinai or only with a bokuto. It's like shiai and kata being the different sides of a same thing.

[RC_Kenshi]

Good question.
In my experience (mostly in Japan) most places don't practice kata regularly. Most of the time it is only done before grading. I would venture to guess that two reasons for this is lack of interest and time. I get the feeling that alot people don't feel a contection between kata and the rest of kendo, it's just something you do for tests. I've been shocked at how many 6-dan+ are not very good at kata or don't really understand it.
Time; perhaps they feel time is better spent on other aspects of kendo. If you only have an hour practice, 10 minutes spent on kata could mean one or two fewer rounds of jigeiko for everyone.

I thing you've pretty much nailed it (at least in my dojo). Frequency and duration of Kata practice seems to ramp up as shinsa approaches, then it's nowhere to be seen for a couple of months aftre the shinsa. Shame too, because I'm of the mindset that says practice a little on a regular basis is much better than a whole lot ever so often.

Also, regular kata practice makes shinsa much less stressful, because you know the gross mechanics, as opposing to cramming in the weeks before the shinsa.

Finally, with regular kata practice you are able to focus on the minutiae that makes the kata look so much better. At least for me, it is much more effective if I can take a few points or adjustments away from a practice session then work on them (both mentally and physically) for a couple of practice sessions, then lather, rinse, repeat - as opposed to being corrected on 20 different things two weeks before a shinsa.

Of course, YMMV.

RC_Kenshi

[Jordan Lavin]

To quickly answer the question of the topic. NEVER buy anything that comes from a mall unless Tozando is bringing a super large power that seems to be like the Best Buy of budo in Japan and bring it here. As far as a actual straight bokuto it pends if the it is a stylized Bokuto like I believe Jigen Ryu styled bokuto are straight.

I agree with the mindset of regular practice but I think the reason lots of sensei do that is that they want to focus on other things and they want to focus on that more than kata because honestly I think kata in kendo have taken a large backseat to Keiko and waza which is due to its modernization and system of grading here in the US. (Please slap me if I'm wrong) I think Kata while are preset movements has a more real feeling to it. You get this air its very different then if your in bogu during Keiko.

[ShinKenshi]

As far as a actual straight bokuto it pends if the it is a stylized Bokuto like I believe Jigen Ryu styled bokuto are straight.Their bokuto are actually large straight sticks, literally.


...honestly I think kata in kendo have taken a large backseat to Keiko and waza which is due to its modernization and system of grading here in the US.I don't think it's because of the grading system since it's pretty much the same everywhere else in the world.


(Please slap me if I'm wrong) I think Kata while are preset movements has a more real feeling to it. You get this air its very different then if your in bogu during Keiko.Because it isn't as dynamic as shinai kendo, you do feel that it's different but if you look past it, you'll find that you can take every single concept from the kata and apply it directly to regular keiko. By focusing on the specific physical movements I feel you miss out on half of the benefits that come from practicing kata. I feel you have to take both the physical movements and the overall concept from each kata to get a clear view of what you are supposed to get out of eack specific kata. This becomes clearer and clearer as you learn more of the subtle details.

[R Stroud]

A comment FWIW on buying not just bokutoh but any equipment. As a student you would be better off asking your sensei for advice about what to buy. There is a relationship in the kendo dojo between the student and the sensei that really starts with the discussion about what gear to purchase. This starts at the first meeting when one asks the sensei what should they buy for the class.

In today's kendo landscape and the easy to use world wide web anyone can instantly purchase bogu, uniforms, shinai, and whatever else strikes their fancy. But in the time before the internet the kendo student actually spoke to their instructor about what gear to buy and this strengthened the relationship.

Many sensei I know have stopped worrying about this and assume that the student will simply figure it out at some point during their start of training. But by removing this step from the beginner's learning process they are missing an excellent chance to a) bond with their sensei, and b) find out important details about the equipment they will need and use in the study of kendo.

So my advice is that new students go to their sensei for not only technical but also gear related help. I understand that many on these forums do not have a sensei, but perhaps they could be motivated to seek out someone that they would like to have as their teacher, and once they locate them make a point to talk with them and ask questions.

Listening to the advice is a useful skill as well, but best left to another thread.

[metabug]

FYI the curvature of the bokken is required in kendo kata #3 as it's used to parry uchitachi's tsuki to shitachi's chest. And buying bokkens from gift shop that might be meant for display purpose only is just a hazard to your own safety.

[Decoy949]

FYI the curvature of the bokken is required in kendo kata #3 as it's used to parry uchitachi's tsuki to shitachi's chest. And buying bokkens from gift shop that might be meant for display purpose only is just a hazard to your own safety.

This is very true. Had a gift shop one that I bought before starting kendo and one day was just playing around with it. Hit my bed, not too hard either, and had it splinter in half with the tip bouncing back past me. Surprising since it was actually thicker than the standard bokken.

[Abramo]

The way I see it, curvature and grip and shape etc. ARE important and they DO intend to bring Kendo closer to its origins with the katana. One may argue that a bokken has nothing to do with a katana, but it's still a much closer connection than the one you get practicing with shinai or tree branches or straight sticks (Jigen ryu aside as I know nothing about it.) The basic mechanics of hasuji, parring etc. can all be quite suficiently grasped by practicing with bokuto.

Some sensei personal view on kata notwithstanding, it IS a part of official Kendo and it IS important. It's not a small part, at that, and I believe that is the view of mainstream Kendo. It's certainly the view of most, if not all, hachidan sensei I've seen visiting here. They all took the trouble of demonstrating Kata in opening and ending cerimonies and giving kata seminars to a bunch of ikkyu-shodan n00bzorz.

I also have to agree that one shouldn't get ANY Kendo equipment from gift shops. I do have a diverging personal experience, though, to be taken as anecdotal evidence. I bought my own bokuto in a gift shop. I returned the first one (beautiful dark wood) because it had a rather large crack, but the second one (lighter wood but still very nice) has been my faithful companion for almost 5 years now, including 3 gradings and many seminars. It's made from a very good Brazilian wood though so not your typical gift shop item.