Tension

[Deco]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

In this subject I need a expirienced kendoka!!

How tense should the nakayui and the tsuru be??

:confused: :confused:

Forgive my question but it´s quite important for the good life of the shinai.

Cheers

Deco

[mystic_kendoka]

im not experienced but, i got a new tsukigawa and the shop owner tied it for me, and the string was i'd say as tight as a guitar string, no idea about the nakayui tho...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Nakayui should be fairly snug but still allow the take to move freely past each other. The tsuru should be fairly tense: it should make a little sound if you pluck it like a guitar string. It should not be so tense that it pulls the shinai crooked. If it makes a high-pitched sound when you pluck it that's probably too tight, should be more of a medium-low sound.

[lwegerich]

How tense should the nakayui and the tsuru be??



There is a simple rule of common sense and safety:

Ii you can pull off the tip (saki-gawa) the cord (tsuru) doesn't have enough tension. Imagine the tip flying off during the hit and one of the bamboo slats goes through your men game.

There was a guy in Germany who died like that around 25 years ago. A loose slat pierced his eyes went into his brain and sent him to heaven (hopefully).

[Shazzanzzz]

There is a simple rule of common sense and safety:

Ii you can pull off the tip (saki-gawa) the cord (tsuru) doesn't have enough tension. Imagine the tip flying off during the hit and one of the bamboo slats goes through your men game.

There was a guy in Germany who died like that around 25 years ago. A loose slat pierced his eyes went into his brain and sent him to heaven (hopefully).

OMG....

Scary, ok, from now on, i'm checking everyone's shinai before i do ji-geiko with them.

[xvikingx]

There was a guy in Germany who died like that around 25 years ago. A loose slat pierced his eyes went into his brain and sent him to heaven (hopefully).

Is it just me or are these questions that should be directed towards someone at your dojo so thing like the above don't happen?

[litige]

a slat pierced his eye?
that's kind of odd since there's a metal tip at the end of the slats, so for one to enter through the mengane and then pierce the eye ( the tip is quite large)
pierce the cristallin (wich is quite tough) and then break the bones, and pierce the brain... Must really have been on purpose...or for a freakshow

[Sir Percy]

Not sure about shinai fracture causing brain damage but a broken foil certainly can. Russian Vladimir Smirnov was the defending World Foil Champion and considered by many to be the world's best and most creative fencer - in any weapon.

In those days safety standards weren't as high as they are now. Thus, in a bout with his friend, the above-mentioned Mathias Behr, Smirnov was using a mask that was too old.

I should say here that a foil is three feet long and flexible, but when it eventually breaks, the spike left in the fencer's hand is one-and-a-half feet long and rigid.

Behr, in one particularly ill-fated thrust, broke his foil on Smirnov's torso and, because he was moving too fast to stop, inadvertently shoved his broken foil through Smirnov's mask, the front of Smirnov's skull, and completely through Smirnov's brain. Behr quickly jerked his weapon out of Smirnov's head, allowing Smirnov, his arm moving on reflex only, to pull his mask off. While blood and brain fluid spilled out of the hole in the Russian's forehead, Behr stared in horror into the eyes of the man he had just killed.

Then the world's greatest fencer collapsed, never to rise again.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The deaths due to shinai weren't due to loose tsuru, but rather broken staves from a strong tsuki. The jagged broken end continued on it's path, ending up slipping between the bars of the mengane and piercing the unfortunate victim through the eye. This happened two times I believe, both in Europe over 20 years ago, unfortunately I don't have any more details than that.

[Will]

a slat pierced his eye?
that's kind of odd since there's a metal tip at the end of the slats, so for one to enter through the mengane and then pierce the eye ( the tip is quite large)
pierce the cristallin (wich is quite tough) and then break the bones, and pierce the brain... Must really have been on purpose...or for a freakshow

From my knowledge of the incident, they implemented the metal tip at the end of the slates because of what happened.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'm not sure what you guys mean by a metal tip? There's no metal tip, just the same old rubber plug thing. At any rate, the incident was caused by a broken stave, so whatever is in the tip wouldn't have helped any.

[aikanaro]

Well, I don´t know if a splinter could kill someone, but my sensei has an injured eye (lost vision partially), due to a shinai broken during geiko... back then when it happened there was no protection for the eyes built into the men, so the splinter hit him in the eye... so better maintain the shinais well oiled, to prevent these accidents as much as possible.

Regarding the proper tension for the tsuru, it should be so that neither saki gawa nor tsuka gawa slip, the tsuru keeps a straight line along the shinai, but not so as to bend it, and the nakayui should be tense enough so it doesn't move up and down the shinai.

By the way, does someone know which is the average "life" for a men, and when is it advisable to change it?

[litige]

:back then when it happened there was no protection for the eyes built into the men:

There is still no protection for the eyes built in the men, but rather the fence is placed and spaced for better protection.

[aikanaro]

I've seen some with a plastic sheet placed between the face and the fence, I think that may be a protection of sorts, at least against a small splinter (maybe not against a broken shinai through the fence... :)

[Budoka 83]

Does anyone know the correct distance between the Sakigawa and Nakayuki?

[mystic_kendoka]

depends on the size of your shinai actually... but about a third... doesnt really matter though.. my teacher said that as you get better, and if u wish to train yourself better u should push the nakayui up, closer to the tip, so that u have a smaller target area on your shinai... so it doesn't really matter, just about a third i would say...

[rfoxmich]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

In this subject I need a expirienced kendoka!!

How tense should the nakayui and the tsuru be??

:confused: :confused:

Forgive my question but it´s quite important for the good life of the shinai.

Cheers

Deco


Tune it to the D below middle C. Use an electronic tuner match it to 1:1000 or else you may have a dangerous shinai!!!!

Seriously, the tsuru should secure the sakigawa to the shinai. The tsuka should not be twistable, neither should the sakigawa. The nakayui should not be easily movable. The shinai should not be 'flattened' by the tension, nore should the take (slats) slide too freely.

RF

[rfoxmich]

a slat pierced his eye?
that's kind of odd since there's a metal tip at the end of the slats, so for one to enter through the mengane and then pierce the eye ( the tip is quite large)
pierce the cristallin (wich is quite tough) and then break the bones, and pierce the brain... Must really have been on purpose...or for a freakshow


Actually no there isn't. Inside the sakigawa is a saki-gomu usually... a rubber stopper like thingy. However on shinai with a worn sakigawa it is possible for a take to punch through the sakigawa and on through the men-gane.

Accidents of this sort are by definition freak events since the take has to point just right to get through the men gane. I believe, however the case that was mentioned was helped along by the fact that the take had broken and the tip was no longer quite so large... but more like a spear.

RF

[mystic_kendoka]

Tune it to the D below middle C. Use an electronic tuner match it to 1:1000 or else you may have a dangerous shinai!!!!

umm.. just wondering... does anybody understand this? im baffled throughout, beginning with the first "D"...

(Feeling dumb...)
- Sungi

[Ryukyu]

umm.. just wondering... does anybody understand this? im baffled throughout, beginning with the first "D"...

(Feeling dumb...)
- Sungi

Don't feel dumb! It's just a joke. :smiley:

[mystic_kendoka]

o ok... phew...