Sun Tzu, Kendo, Budo

[Charlie]

Anyone a fan of Art of War? I've read it in a couple of different translations and have always treasured it. I notice in the literature of budo generally and kendo specifically reference is made to this work often, and with good reason, since it is one of the primary texts of Asian martial arts. Here's a very good site for discussion of this work if you're not aware of it already:

www.sonshi.com (http://sonshi.com/index.html)

Continued in a sec....

[Big One]

I have read it so many times but hard to apply it into the Kendo. I understood the way he talked about war and I can see it related to Kendo. However, I think that getting grip of basics. After that, applying the Sun Tzu theory will be more effective.

[Charlie]

I'm going to be re-reading this but my major take-away from this is that you should be calculating in your approach to a confrontation. I think for budo students, we apply what is written of large scale warfare to small scale fights. So taking Sun Tzu's instruction to heart means that in your confrontation, get as much detail as you can and apply it to your advantage.

In kendo, I tend to think this means to give fore-thought to your opponent and calculate how best to defeat him. There's not a lot to consider in terms of ground or logistics since we always fence in the same conditions - a wood floor. But you can ask yourself useful questions about your opponent and apply them to winning.

Is my opponent tall, average, short?

What waza does he prefer?

Is he fast?

What are his weaknesses?

I think Sun Tzu would have us acquire this kind of knowledge before the match and use it to win. Question for me is, how do we reconcile this with the "mushin" that we are instructed to bring to every match, with the idea that, as many sensei say, "your kendo should be the same no matter who you face."

Do check out that link. There's a lot of study and, most interesting to me, application. I think Sun Tzu can be applied to personal development, skill development, coaching/mentoring (!), and, obviously, competing.

[verissimus]

Question for me is, how do we reconcile this with the "mushin" that we are instructed to bring to every match, with the idea that, as many sensei say, "your kendo should be the same no matter who you face."


Perhaps the way to reconcile the two pertains to the choice of waza one uses against one's opponent, and not how one performs it. I may be talking absolute nonsense here. Feel free to correct me.

[turboyoshi]

Thanks Charlie for the sonshi site. Interesting stuff. I have the Samuel Griffith translation bought before I was even aware of how many different translations there were.

Putting the concern of accuracy aside for the moment, I wonder which author would have the most insight into the meanings behind the original words.

I'm starting to get insights from kendo that never occurred to me during karate, even though my karate sensei discussed many of the same concepts. I'm sure some of this has to do mental maturity but I think a lot of this has to do with taking a completely new approach, the kendo way instead of the karate way.

For any of the translations of this book, if the translators were not students of martial arts themselves, can they really give an insightful translation, as opposed to technically accurate?

Would someone who's studied the sword have better insight than someone who's studied only empty handed arts?

Regarding the book itself, it's still way too difficult for me. It will probably stay shelved for another 10 years. :P

sean

[JSchmidt]

Question for me is, how do we reconcile this with the "mushin" that we are instructed to bring to every match, with the idea that, as many sensei say, "your kendo should be the same no matter who you face."

If both sides kendo is unchanging to the opponents kendo, then you'll end up with 2 people just doing their regardless of the opponent and there's no match. Only who ever manages to land a technique before the other.
'Your kendo' is about how you approach an opponent, how you create openings and how you attack those openings. Now, if a situation requires you to modify one of these, according to the experience you already have (so you remain in control of the situation), isn't it still 'your kendo'.
Where 'your kendo' stops, is when you start doing things that you are not comfortable/experienced in doing, either as a result of a bad decision (yours) or because opponent forces you into doing so.

I also think it's dangerous to translate mushin into 'not thinking'.

[Big One]

Just about the translation.

Even the Chinese admitted that they had a hard time to translate the original "The art of war" into modern Chinese with all of the philosophy attached. If that is the case, I doubt that an English or other language versions can be correctly translated.

[JByrd]

In kendo, I tend to think this means to give fore-thought to your opponent and calculate how best to defeat him. There's not a lot to consider in terms of ground or logistics since we always fence in the same conditions - a wood floor. But you can ask yourself useful questions about your opponent and apply them to winning.


Those points about observing and analyzing the opponent are great. Remember that it also says that we must first know ourselves. All those questions should first be directed inward. If we know our own strengths, we can leverage them as much as possible. If we know our own weaknesses, we can change our training to strengthen those areas, and guard against our opponent's attempts to exploit them. In both cases we become more aware of the true significance of specific qualities (height, speed, aggressiveness, etc.), which helps us understand how best to deal with our opponent.

[sirius1906]

Question for me is, how do we reconcile this with the "mushin" that we are instructed to bring to every match, with the idea that, as many sensei say, "your kendo should be the same no matter who you face."


I think this depends on your own definition of kendo, i.e., how much it is sport vs. how much it is spiritual. If winning is important, of course we would calculate, strategize and so on. If winning is not important, then we would probably do what we always do in practice since it’s natural to us. However, nothing in this world is pure black and white. Often, our definition of kendo falls somewhere between sport and classical. Mushin is what we strive for, but few people can truly achieve “mushin”. Maybe you need to be a monk to do it. Whatever it is, just follow your heart. I wouldn’t over analyze it…unless I am writing a thesis for my hachidan exam. :D

[mingshi]

For any of the translations of this book, if the translators were not students of martial arts themselves, can they really give an insightful translation, as opposed to technically accurate?

AFAIK "The Art of War" is written for military strategies and tactics, not martial arts. So diverting the meaning into martial arts would actually making it not all that accurate.

I'd stay with the manga version...

[sirius1906]

AFAIK "The Art of War" is written for military strategies and tactics, not martial arts. So diverting the meaning into martial arts would actually making it not all that accurate.

I'd stay with the manga version...

so why do those know-it-all wall street businessman quote "the art of war"? i've seen them do it in movies!

[Kenzan]

I've always been rather confused on the whole "know your enemy and know yourself thing."
As other famous philosophers have stated, If truly the only real enemy is yourself, and if in order to defeat yourself, you must know yourself, then, in this case, if all of us really knew ourselves, there would be no need for war, and thusly Sun Tzu would have been out of a job, and would have been forced to work for his brother-in-law's accounting firm.

[sirius1906]

I've always been rather confused on the whole "know your enemy and know yourself thing."
As other famous philosophers have stated, If truly the only real enemy is yourself, and if in order to defeat yourself, you must know yourself, then, in this case, if all of us really knew ourselves, there would be no need for war, and thusly Sun Tzu would have been out of a job, and would have been forced to work for his brother-in-law's accounting firm.

Boy, these philosophy questions are giving me a headache. It's more practical to think about the answer to "does this make me look fat, honey?" The person with the right answer should get a nobel prize.

[Charlie]

Just about the translation. Even the Chinese admitted that they had a hard time to translate the original "The art of war" into modern Chinese with all of the philosophy attached. If that is the case, I doubt that an English or other language versions can be correctly translated.

This is a really good point. I think part of the challenge of reading this book is in also being knowledgeable about what's not being said. I think to really understand everything that's being referenced in the work, one should have a good understanding also of Taoism, Confucianism, the period in which it was written, and other works. One thing the book stresses is to recognize people of quality, strength and wisdom and give them key roles to play. I think what defines that is something that would have been addressed in other works outside Art of War.

Mingshi, allow me a quibble: Unless I'm mistaken, this book has been one that as been studied by kenshi, including koryu kenshi and kendo kenshi, for a long, long time. I believe a variety of martial arts schools in China and Japan have made Art of War part of its curriculum or a good addition to its library. Your thoughts?

Regarding Calculations and mushin:

I appreciate the feedback on this topic. I think it really points out that your kendo should "always be the same" and you should approach a match with a consistent spirit or state of mind, your kendo is a fluid thing. I'll have to chew on this a while but I think I'm saying one's kendo should be consistent, focused, intense, and capable of adjusting to situations.

[Kenzan]

It's more practical to think about the answer to "does this make me look fat, honey?"

Or for some people, "Those people! Over there! They are different from us! Quick! KILL IT!"

BTW: The answer to the question of "Does this make me look fat" is:

"I have an idea, honey! Let's go out for dinner and dancing!"

-Or simply produce a rather large piece of query-deflecting merchandise/jewelry.

I keep about 4 thousand dollars worth in my pocket at all times for just such occasions.

[rfoxmich]

In difficult ground, press on; On hemmed-in ground, use subterfuge; In death ground, fight.

[LarsCW]

"Knowing ones enemy is winning half the battle"

This is one of the famous quotes.

A way to read this is knowing your true enemy, which can be your enemy within, your weaknesses or lack in skill. When you are aware of those then you know that when you're against a more skilled oponent you'll make sure to protect your weaknesses.

Your enemy within, while still fighting another enemy.

So when you read something like this you always need to look further.

The enemy of which the book speaks isn't always physically but it could be different types of factors.

[GZA]

There's not a lot to consider in terms of ground or logistics since we always fence in the same conditions - a wood floor.

But you could still use the same judgement. If your in the middle of the floor, then there is no advantage, If your pressed close to the wall, then you need to make a offensive move and gain advantange, if you have who your sparring near the end of the floor, then it might be best to play defensive, wait for their attack and put them furthur in trouble (given that once you drift to far sensei will probably call you back to the middle) But i think these points are still valid even on an unchanging surface.

[mingshi]

I think to really understand everything that's being referenced in the work, one should have a good understanding also of Taoism, Confucianism, the period in which it was written, and other works.

The Art of War was written around the same time as when Confucius or Lao Zi lived. I'd say the reference or influence from other philosophy(s) is minimal to Sun Tsu's writing.


Mingshi, allow me a quibble: Unless I'm mistaken, this book has been one that as been studied by kenshi, including koryu kenshi and kendo kenshi, for a long, long time. I believe a variety of martial arts schools in China and Japan have made Art of War part of its curriculum or a good addition to its library. Your thoughts?

Not sure about the curriculum for martial arts school part - but it's also studied in literature, businesses and whatever competitive situations. For translation's purpose, it's not appropriate to fill in the translator's own interpretations. Speaking of accuracy (what turboyoshi mentioned).

[enkorat]

Mushin is a difficult concept, I think.

I think to be honest, the straightforward translation of "not thinking", along with others on this thread, is an oversimplification.

I think its important to think of two things. One is that "not thinking" is sort of an end goal, something that happens at a certain moment at a certain time, after a lot of practice. And secondly, "not thinking" is not the same as "not doing".

From what I understand, all of the things that you talk about, being aware and thinking of your opponent, and the strategy, and the kind of opponent the person is, is something you must think about and consider during training.

Then you practice, practice, and practice. All the while you are thinking and adapting to your opponent with equal attention and focus as the rest of your training. And like technical issues, as you practice and practice, it becomes a subconscious skill that you can do faster.

The experience of thinking about it in practicing, and getting more experience then leads to less doubt and surprise. You need to spend less time thinking about it because you've "seen it before", as it were.

But I don't think its going to work if you don't build up the experience library beforehand through practice. If you walk out onto a court and tell yourself "don't think", without the practice and experience that has become ingrained and subconscious, I don't think its going to end well.

[ZealUK]

It's funny that the Japanese seemed to hold Chinese writings on strategy in high regard, but they ended up with a quite different approach to war in the end.

There's a phrase in Japanese which says something like 'it's better to be shattered like a jewel than life life like a roof tile.' This is going on about fighting and dying a glorious death.

The Chinese however seemed to love running away. This would provide an opportunity to fight at another venture, or perhaps avoid conflict.

I was reading in some book recently that this difference may be due to the fact that Japan is a long narrow nation, and provides far less opportunity to escape than the vast area of land in China.

[ZealUK]

Mushin is a difficult concept, I think.

I think to be honest, the straightforward translation of "not thinking", along with others on this thread, is an oversimplification.

I think its important to think of two things. One is that "not thinking" is sort of an end goal, something that happens at a certain moment at a certain time, after a lot of practice. And secondly, "not thinking" is not the same as "not doing".

From what I understand, all of the things that you talk about, being aware and thinking of your opponent, and the strategy, and the kind of opponent the person is, is something you must think about and consider during training.

Then you practice, practice, and practice. All the while you are thinking and adapting to your opponent with equal attention and focus as the rest of your training. And like technical issues, as you practice and practice, it becomes a subconscious skill that you can do faster.

The experience of thinking about it in practicing, and getting more experience then leads to less doubt and surprise. You need to spend less time thinking about it because you've "seen it before", as it were.

But I don't think its going to work if you don't build up the experience library beforehand through practice. If you walk out onto a court and tell yourself "don't think", without the practice and experience that has become ingrained and subconscious, I don't think its going to end well.

I agree. It's just like having a piss.

[ben]

I must admit I've never read Art of War, but I'm sure I've heard snippets second-hand all over the place.

Was it Sun Tzu who said, "When confronting an enemy, always allow them to think they have an avenue of escape. An enemy who is cornered will fight to the death." I like that. It has a lot of uses.

b

[Bokushingu]

I agree with Mingshi. I have not read the Art of War but a number of my BA of BA classes quoted art of war. mainly the classes on globilization, business culture, enviornment, & management. They also studied the movie, "A bridge built too far." Based on the quotes studied in my classes, I feel the Art of war is about large scale adaptation.

I think, charlie, what you are thinking about is tactics. Tactics is about applying your abilities to a given problem. You use tactics daily without even being aware of it. for example, you are driving on the freeway. you need to get off in 3 exits & traffic is heavy & you have a large SUV. Your tactic will be to start moving over one lane per exit. So I can understand when they say, "do your kendo." I feel that adjusting your wazas, seme, timing, speed, & maai is doing your own kendo, and more importantly applying your kendo to a given(dynamic) situation. for example a talented fighter is somone with pretty form that can use it effectively against any opponent. If you go into any boxing gym, you will see the guy that looks freakin' awesome on the heavy bags or shadowboxing, but when they get into the ring, they suck. the same thing in Kendo...there's guy that look pretty & know a lot about kendo, but they can't fight worth a dime.

Coaches. In boxing in every fight you were allowed to have a coach in your corner. The coach, if he is good, should be extremely tactical...with short term strategy(per round) & long term strategy(per fight). when i go to the Team taikai's in my region I notice that the dojos that do well have very effective coaching. coaching for a competitor of anything is paramount, especially the non-tactical players(players that don't know how to apply themselves to a dynamic situation).

[LowFatMat]

There's not a lot to consider in terms of ground or logistics since we always fence in the same conditions - a wood floor.

The sempai I practice with are perfectly happy to let you back into/slam you into walls, pillars and other available 'terrain'. Pays to keep in mind where you are in the dojo, especially with the unparalleled peripheral vision that the men provides.

[GZA]

I must admit I've never read Art of War, but I'm sure I've heard snippets second-hand all over the place.

Was it Sun Tzu who said, "When confronting an enemy, always allow them to think they have an avenue of escape. An enemy who is cornered will fight to the death." I like that. It has a lot of uses.

b

Yeah that was Tzu

[Charlie]

The Art of War was written around the same time as when Confucius or Lao Zi lived. I'd say the reference or influence from other philosophy(s) is minimal to Sun Tsu's writing.

Ah! I'm glad you pointed this out because it was an assumption on my part. I assumed that the religious and ethical background of this work would come from Taoism and Confucianism but if it is concurrent that then that's obviously incorrect. My point, which I think you might agree with, is that the work makes references to specific ancient world ideas about character, religion, the supernatural, politics, law. Without that context, much of the work will be lost. For example, when it talks about "doing the rites" I know this refers to ancient world religious practices but I have only the vaguest idea what it means.

I'll see if I can find it but I know of at least one Kendo World article in which the author, a sensei of some experience, recommends kenshi in particular read Art of War and Go Rin No Sho. Certainly there's translation issues, contextual issues, and the issue of knowing what exactly one's supposed to get out of interacting with these texts, but it seems like a worthwhile pursuit to me.

[Charlie]

Yeah that was Tzu

Or was it the RZA? The GZA? Inspectah Deck? Raekwon the Chef? :chinese:

[Charlie]

I appreciate the thoughts about mushin and tactics. I'm certainly in agreement. Personally, I've never been much of a strategist. Always been very simple in my thinking, tactical but probably short sighted. In fact, at this point in my kendo I am working to simplify and concentrate on some very basic things that are essential to my performance. But, I do like to kick these ideas around.

What do you think of this chapter? (http://sonshi.com/sun6.html)It makes my head hurt.

[GZA]

Or was it the RZA? The GZA? Inspectah Deck? Raekwon the Chef? :chinese:

ol dirty? Method? Ghostface? masta killah? Killha preist?
did we miss any? ^_^

btw...

How about The Book of Five Rings?
I can't seem to get through that book, I just hate Musashi's attitude. Same with Hagakure.

[ZealUK]

I recently read 兵法三十六計 (36 Strategies of Martial Art) and found it pretty interesting.

There are a lot of books about strategy that are hard to find or have not been translated into English. I want to get hold of 兵法奥義書/兵法秘伝書 (Hyoho Okugisho) by Yamamoto Kansuke next.

I like reading all this stuff as theory, but I wouldn't have a clue how to actually apply it if you stuck me in front of an army...

[bullet08]

What do you think of this chapter? (http://sonshi.com/sun6.html)It makes my head hurt.

i think he was sexually repressed and in need of very cheap whole. or beer.

pete

[Shazzanzzz]

I think the key takeaways from Sun Tzu is to
1. make yourself "undefeatable" before you go on the offensive.
2. know your opponent and know yourself
3. Sometimes retreating is not a bad thing. But you have to actually "retreat" not "flee".
4. The best strategy is to defeat the opponent by policy (i would say seme in this case), second is to win by strategy, worst strategy is to win by brute force, although when it comes down to that... you should still be able to do it.

that's all i can think of for now...

For some people and sometimes during kendo... Our focus isn't on winning but accomplish different things. So these things shouldn't apply ALL the time. Sometimes you have to lose to accomplish things you want to accomplish... Like learning how to strike men correctly, finding the right timing, learning how to win by seme instead of strategy, etc etc. Kendo is counter-intuitive in the sense that if you want to ultimately get better many times you need to let yourself lose... I think that's a hurdle that occludes many people. I think that's the difference between budo/kendo and art of war.

[Josh Reyer]

What do you think of this chapter? It makes my head hurt.

I think it's not particularly hard to understand, and is probably the chapter most applicable to kendo. What do you find difficult?


How about The Book of Five Rings?
I can't seem to get through that book, I just hate Musashi's attitude. Same with Hagakure.

That's interesting, because to me Musashi's attitude is quite different from Yamamoto's in Hagakure. Hagakure is well-named, as there are some pearls of wisdom and interest buried by thousands of leaves of tedium. Musashi seems a little full of himself sometimes, but I've always found his take on heiho much more pragmatic than Yamamoto's.

[Charlie]

Shazz, that's a great post. I started a thread on here not long ago that I called "the psychology of winning." I was trying to pin down, from a mental standpoint, what it's like to go into a contest with such confidence that it feels like the whole thing has already been decided and you're just executing the correct path, going through the motions. I thought of Sun Tzu in that, of being undefeatable before you go in.

Josh, when I read that chapter I start out nodding and thinking, Yes, okay, got it. But the more I read it the more my brain gets a feeling of.... I feel like I'm getting last minute advice from a coach before going into a fight and it's too much to keep track of.

GZA: You bring up what I think is a great topic - what books are of interest to students of kendo or students of martial arts generally? I myself have always prized Go Rin No Sho and Hagakure. Hagakure, my English translation, I have read over and over and thumbed it and saved parts and underlined parts. I like Go Rin No Sho, too, but I get a lot less out of it - mostly, especially as my understanding of Musashi and koryu has grown - I read it and think that I'm only seeing one part of it and it will always be incomplete unless I could actually study with the author. Still, there is some text of general interest to people like us.

Thoughts? I've also read but would like to re-read Unfettered Mind by Takuan. Zeal, I've not heard of the texts you're referencing.

[Charlie]

One more thought:

I'm in a place for kendo now where I'm starting to stay very basic and get stronger in my basics. To me, too many ideas about my opponent are distracting. I'm mostly obsessed with my own kendo right now, my men cut, all my bad habits. Thoughts of confusing my enemy, probing him, anticipating his weaknesses or coming up with ways to confuse him, distract me.

[sirius1906]

I recently read 兵法三十六計 (36 Strategies of Martial Art) and found it pretty interesting.



I am the expert on that.
That's why I avoid shiai, keiko, practice, etc. :D

第三十六計, 走為上(計) [#36, retreat/walk away is the best (strategy)]

[GZA]

That's interesting, because to me Musashi's attitude is quite different from Yamamoto's in Hagakure. Hagakure is well-named, as there are some pearls of wisdom and interest buried by thousands of leaves of tedium. Musashi seems a little full of himself sometimes, but I've always found his take on heiho much more pragmatic than Yamamoto's.

Well, With Musashi, I just don't like his attitude, even if i agree with what he is saying, i feel he could have chosen better words.

With Yamamoto, He seems a little full of himself as well. Or maybe i am just looking at him wrong. I remember one part where he said: "It is important to listen carefully when someone is giving his opinion on something. Even though it is worthless." So to me, he is saying everyones opinion is worthless? regardless, blanket policy?? if so, why should i care about your book? Another thing with Hagakure....I just don't find the Samurai code all that capivating. It doesn't help that it was written after the fall of the Shogunite.

[Charlie]

We should consider, GZA, that the code as expressed in Hagakure is one man's view of it, a view that may have been shared by his disciples and clansmen, but a contextual one nonetheless.

What Musashi translation you guys reading? I don't get a sense of arrogance at all. I use the Nihon Services Corporation translation, the 1980s-business-guy one.

[GZA]

Mine is the Shambala press, Thomas Clearey Traslation.

[Shinsengumi77]

It is important to listen carefully when someone is giving his opinion on something. Even though it is worthless." So to me, he is saying everyones opinion is worthless?

I think even though it says that, he means if it may be worthless. I thought about that for a while when I read it too, but it seems to be a statement about being respectful and attentive in any situation. In those days, it was probably a great insult to look bored if someone says something that may be worthless to you (so maybe he's saying "suck it up"?)

My copy of The Art of War is by Shambala press as well, and I feel like it's applicable in some matters, but not in all (like in the case of the differing terrain, as Charlie brought up earlier -we are always on a wood floor).
But in some parts it seems to be in accord with what we learn in Kendo, such as "kill the spirit", "kill the sword" and "kill the technique". Sun Tzu says something similar to use what's at your disposal to unsettle and hurt your opponent at no great expense to you. And the whole, achieve victory before going to battle, rather than go to battle and seek victory. There are many things I think can be applied to martial arts even though they don't deal with battlefield tactics and such (anymore).

And Hagakure is a great resource on the same principles we learn from kendo as well. I mentally scold myself when doing things a certain (negative/ unproductive ) way, when I should be doing them in a way more in accord with the book's passages. It's definitely worth a look, and another, and another.
Here's another question: to anyone who's read Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi, did anyone get a lot out of it? I feel really strange because I did. That story in itself has great teachings about good ways to live life, and most of them seem pretty obvious; I just didn't give them much thought earlier.

Anyways, sorry for the long post.

[G-CHAN]

Thoughts of confusing my enemy, probing him, anticipating his weaknesses or coming up with ways to confuse him,

Hey Charlie....keep working on the basics and let your opponent worry about that stuff. I'm a firm believer in the Keep It Simple Stupid principle.

IMHO if you have a strong men, you're a threat, if your kote is strong, you're a threat, ditto with the doh. Do all 3 with zanshin(start and finish all 3 cuts strong).

Good luck bra, oyasumi:)

[GZA]

you might be good with a strong men, but not as fearfull as someone with a skillfull men

[bobdonny]

I think Sun Tzu would have us acquire this kind of knowledge before the match and use it to win. Question for me is, how do we reconcile this with the "mushin" that we are instructed to bring to every match, with the idea that, as many sensei say, "your kendo should be the same no matter who you face."


My opinion is that we practice kendo and we think about it. Ideally we will practice it so much we can compete "turn it on" with mushin. I think this is the same way, in gigeiko you can afford to think about differences in height , weight, speed technique, but then when you go to ippon shobu or shiai you blank your mind and trust that what you have been practicing will work.

From that point i think you can consoplidate both teachings.

[bobdonny]

One more thought:

I'm in a place for kendo now where I'm starting to stay very basic and get stronger in my basics. To me, too many ideas about my opponent are distracting. I'm mostly obsessed with my own kendo right now, my men cut, all my bad habits. Thoughts of confusing my enemy, probing him, anticipating his weaknesses or coming up with ways to confuse him, distract me.

Does that also limiting your development of seme?

I like to see a balance of both (basics and seme), when one is very strong it can compensate for the other. Young fast kendoka can rely on speed, hachidan can rely on semi etc. have you a seperate plan to work on seme or is it on the backburner for a while?

[Charlie]

Does that also limiting your development of seme?

I like to see a balance of both (basics and seme), when one is very strong it can compensate for the other. Young fast kendoka can rely on speed, hachidan can rely on semi etc. have you a seperate plan to work on seme or is it on the backburner for a while?

Well, my understanding of seme right now is that it will come more naturally the more I stick to basics. I agree completely with G-Chan on emphasizing this.

[bobdonny]

Well, my understanding of seme right now is that it will come more naturally the more I stick to basics. I agree completely with G-Chan on emphasizing this.

OK, well I guess you should keep working on what's working. I'm probably missing a lot as you didn't go into detail but what you describe can be done in your back garden with a uchikomidai... you need an opponent to work on "mind contact". I dont see any reason you cant work on both basics and seme in the dojo, it just depends on your frame of mind and ultimate goals.

[Charlie]

I really appreciate your thoughts. Basically, right now I'm doing better kendo concentrating on the basic cut. I've got a lot of little bad habits and stuff I've been working on for years that needs to start coalescing. Of course I think about my opponent, too, but if I overthink it I get distracted. My mind is usually on maai, hands, feet, hips, sutemi and zanshin.

Come to think of it, that seems very Musashi-like to me. Didn't he make the statement that a warrior is very much like a carpenter - both have their tools and skills and measurements, and spend all of their time taking care of these tools and perfecting these same actions of building?

[ScottUK]

Well, With Musashi, I just don't like his attitude, even if i agree with what he is saying, i feel he could have chosen better words.You're worrying about a warrior's choice of words? Actions, GZA, actions... ;)

[bobdonny]

Of course I think about my opponent, too, but if I overthink it I get distracted. My mind is usually on maai, hands, feet, hips, sutemi and zanshin.

Got ya know charlie, my mistake, your not excluding one in replace of the other, you are doing both with emphasis on basics.
Its actually what we all should do init, do our kendo while trying to improve one small aspect at a time.


Come to think of it, that seems very Musashi-like to me. Didn't he make the statement that a warrior is very much like a carpenter - both have their tools and skills and measurements, and spend all of their time taking care of these tools and perfecting these same actions of building?
Could be, I remember it being along the lines of practice, practice practice. Something about starting to learn how to plane..... dunno

[Charlie]

Here's another question: to anyone who's read Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi, did anyone get a lot out of it? I feel really strange because I did. That story in itself has great teachings about good ways to live life, and most of them seem pretty obvious; I just didn't give them much thought earlier.


I meant to respond to this. I just finished it! Great book. I feel like I got a bit more out of it due to my extra reading about the period and what martial arts may have been like in the period. I particularly loved the dichotomy between Musashi and Sasaki Kojiro - Musashi, the integral person, and Kojiro, the one who is on the surface getting honors and accolades. Smashing book, but one that I think is easy to take some incorrect ideas from (like Musashi practically training himself in the mountains with the birds and trees for instructors).