A thought: I wish I had more Kendoka friends. A sense of belonging.

[shidokurisu]

I practice at the southern Shidogakuin dojo, and don't get me wrong, I really respect and like everyone that I train with, the only thing is, they are so much older than me, that I really feel like I am out of place on a social level. I am 22 years old, and the people that regularly train with me are about 45-60 years old. They are also all about 3-5 dan. I just started training in January, so you can see the gap there also. There is one/two people in my group that are not 1st dan yet, but I don't really hang out with them in person mainly because I commute about an hour south to even get to practice so I don't live near anyone. I really love Kendo, and I do enjoy the personal attachment and growth through it, but I would really love to have some friends my age that I can enjoy Kendo with, go out and eat with, go hang out at their house sometimes etc. Most of my friends don't really look at Kendo as anything interesting, and they just accept it as a crazy hobby of mine.

I guess the age works in a way leaning towards my training because I am always getting very personal kendo training in with high ranked fighters, but sometimes I just wish that some of the people I train with could be newbies too and people I could just see as friends rather than seeing them ALL as sensei and my elders.

How about you? Do you make personal friends with the people at your dojo? Do you keep it just kendo-professional and chit chat at training sessions?

Hope this doesn't sound too 'emo' haha. It was just a thought of mine.

[MikeW]

I have many personal friends at the dojo that I call my home dojo (I actually train at 2 different dojo). The core group at TKI are very friendly and a lot of the people that train there are fun to hang out with. Now I'm not saying they are all best of friends and we do everything together or anything, but we can go for beer after practice or go eat, drive together to tournaments and just talk about kendo and life in person and via email/phone.

[Masahiro]

it's great when you have someone to converse with about what you are going through isn't it? :)

[Ookami7]

For me my dojo state side, I would consider almost everyone regardless of age gap etc as friends. We would hang out after practice, grab a beer etc. I still try to keep in touch and let everyone know what I am doing over here. For my Iaido dojo over here, its harder due to work, time constraint, and language barrier. There are only 2 people at the dojo that speak good English. That being said, I do feel welcomed and part of the dojo. I have made errors before and will continue to, but everyone takes it in stride! That being said I have a good relationship with one of the sensei there, he speaks good English, and is helping to train me up as much as he can before April when he returns to Osaka area. So I have a lot of hard training, but it is worth it. Just try and connect as much as you can. Some times the best thing is to go on tournament or seminar trip with everyone! That helps with the bonding etc. Anyways good luck!

[LarsCW]

This is something that has to grow.

Age doesn't really matter as you also can have a beer with a 45-60 sempai/sensei

What you see with these people is that they look at life in another way, learn from it and take your advantage from it.

[ii_kangae]

I totally get your problem. Being in Japan, there aren't so many young beginers that I can talk to and I get destroyed by old men all the time but...

Unless your sensei and sempai are Japanese, you shouldn't have a problem becoming good friends with them.

Please note, I am not saying that you can't have good relations with a Japanese sensei, just that the culture is different and you will never be able to talk to them w/o using some form of respectful speech (ie Keigo)

I digress... The bottom line is that you should definately join in on the group functions as the after class discussion over beers can be very revealing and will not only improve your kendo but your sense of group belonging.

[JCM]

it's great when you have someone to converse with about what you are going through isn't it? :)

Yes, I guess I am very lucky. In the Dojo we train hard and have minimal or no chatter during training, but this changes as soon as we put the tools down. Is really good to be able to lean on others, share a beer and a laugh and have people who understand what you are working on. Before you know it they have become very close friends and your relationship goes beyond Kendo. I would have had quit without these guys pushing me on.

Shidokurisu, be patient, some other beginner is likely to start at some point, similar age etc.... :)

[rfoxmich]

This brings up a side topic from the other side of that table.
What do people who lead dojos do to help new members feel welcome
and part of the group.

There are two natural barriers I see that develop:
- The separation between those wearing and those not wearing
bogu.
- The feeling that a new guy/gal may have that they don't
want to intrude on existing relationships?

How do you break down those barriers?
What other barriers to belonging exist?

etc. etc.

Ron.

[shidokurisu]

Yeah Ron, I think you are on the right track as far as what I feel. The Bogu part is funny, because I think that is part of it honestly, I JUST got my bogu a few days ago, still haven't had it at practice, but they have been encouraging me to get it. They all poke fun at me saying "oh we can't wait to REALLY invite you into the club" basically saying "Hey Chris, we can't wait to beat the crap outta you when you get your Bogu on." And they also have all been doing Kendo with each other for about 15+ years. And from the earlier posts, it's not that I don't think they are cool, friendly guys, it's probably just the fact of me not doing the 'beer sharing' events yet. The one trip that we have had planned out so far I didn't get to attend, but I am sure when the next one comes around I will. I am sure with time it will strengthen, and I think me moving will be a big help too. I have to travel over an hour to get to the dojo so most of the time when class ends I go straight home considering I have a long drive ahead of me. I'm sure it will happen in time though, I think more of it is wanting another 'newbie' to Kendo, rather than being the only one who isn't so well versed yet.

[kendokamax]

Before doing Kendo I did aikido for 4 months.
One of the reason I did not stick with it was the age difference with most of the other members. Even thought most people were nice I did not really made any friends and I did not have any reasons to go except for aikido itself.

When I started kendo everyone in the club were young and it was really different. I made friends and had fun, it's a bit later on that I really started to like kendo.

[Charles Lockhar]

There's this quote, I think it comes from a Dave Lowry book, something like "A relationship can be beautiful, or comfortable, but not both." I don't necessarily agree, I think you can ride that fine line between the two, but I think often in budo that's the way it is.

I think a lot depends on the persons involved. I'm pretty casual with my teachers, BUT that's only regarding things outside of kendo, when it comes to kendo related stuff, I know where the lines are. And I think I have a pretty good handle on the teacher-student relationship when it comes to budo stuff, even for the odd and sometimes painful stuff.

I have mixed feelings when it comes to friendships and the dojo, the same way I have mixed feelings about the "dating game" in the dojo. I don't go there to make friends, if it happens, that's great, if it never happens, that's ok too*. For people coming to the MA and expecting to gain a set of friends from that, I think that would be tough, depending on the dojo. My dojo is pretty friendly, but it takes time to get through the unofficial "probation period," so that they know you're actually gonna stick around.

-Charles

*YMMV. I grew up in a fairly isolated area in Alaska, didn't have friends till I was about 14 and went to the state boarding school in Alaska. It really shows sometimes in my lack of social skills, and the ability to spend nearly unlimited amounts of time alone in the middle of nowhere.

[imouto]

I train at more than one dojo so bear with me. I will try not to ramble.

At Dojo 1, most of the members are much younger than me, near about 10 years or so. There's some chit chat and jokes thrown about but that's about it. There's a few people my age about as well and we talk outside of the dojo. I've even been drinking with one of them too. I go because there's other beginners there and it doesn't hurt to focus on fundamentals a bit more considering I still mess them up.

At Dojo 2, when I do turn up which admittedly is not often at the moment. I'm the only female and the guys are really easy to get along with. I've no idea how they tolerate me dropping in and then disappearing from the radar. Most of them are also much bigger than me but they're patient with me especially when I keep making the same mistakes over and over despite my brain telling my body to do perfect kendo for a change. (Anyone else with that problem?) It's all training in the dojo but as soon as things are put away, it's jokes and pleasantries.

At Dojo 3, it's 99% kendo, 1% chit chat. Not a bad thing by any means. I do learn quite a bit though if only I can put it to practice. I have learnt that if I do manage to do something really well, it's cyclical like Halley's Comet. I do make apologies for my kendo there. Everyone here is really advanced and I'm forced to really really really focus on my basics. I think I did ok last week.

At my home dojo, (not even sure if that's a correct term but it's the one I officially belong to), it's an older group where I'm one of the youngest members. I sort of hope to organise a get together after our first grading but I keep forgetting to bring it up. Possibly because by the time training is over, my brain is completely wiped of anything that could be of any use.

I'm not suggesting that you go around shopping for a dojo. No good will ever come of that. But there's a commonality in my experience. Everyone has been welcoming and there is that bizarre warming up period before any jovial conversations start. Some places clearly have relationships well defined and it can feel a bit lonely for newbies but bear with it. I mean, after all you're voluntarily practicing an art that allows other people to scream and hit you with a stick, give it time for some friendships to form.

As for welcoming new members, there is one very useful thing you can do when you see newbies.

Go talk to them. Walk away from your circle of friends at the dojo and talk to the newbies. Show some sort of interest in them as a person. It does wonders. And if you've got time introduce them around. Yes, not all newbies stick around but have you thought that they may be giving the club a probation period too? If people don't feel welcomed or a sense of belonging, they're not likely to continue to return.

Surely it can't be too much to expect basic social skills from kendoka?

[Paburo]

When I started kendo everyone in the club were young and it was really different. I made friends and had fun, it's a bit later on that I really started to like kendo.

lol max, so are you saying you did join kendo for all the babes in your club? is this some sort of dirty confession? hehe :silly:

[Paburo]

How about you? Do you make personal friends with the people at your dojo? Do you keep it just kendo-professional and chit chat at training sessions?

oh yesssss. i got a dojo "family" :D i see them 4, sometimes 5 or 6 times a week at keiko and various social events we make on the weekends. i see them more than my own family actually..... when you see ppl this much over the lapse of many years there grows a link and a bond. especially with ppl around your age.

when i got into the dojo i was one of the youngest too. a bit out of place. but soon plenty more ppl around my age got in. so my advise is hang in there. more ppl will join. imo socialising is a big part in kendo or any other sport/MA/activity what you may, but in the meantime you can focus on your basics :D

[braxtonhicks]

At my dojo there are a few barriers for me to connect with people. One is cultural, almost everyone there is Korean and routinely speak in Korean, and even a lot of the class is in Korean. I'm a Canadian white boy of English/Irish descent. Also, in the beginner's class, at least recently, it's been a lot of kids in their teens and lower...I'm 32. Even in the Intermediate class which I'll be joining soon, it's a lot of high-school age kids. In the advanced class...which I have no business going near...it seems like everyone's in their 40's and 50's. However all that being said, it's a great dojo, the sensei's (sabumnim's) really try to work with you no matter what your level, small classes, lots of classes, lots of individual attention. Definitely not a social place to train. At the end of the day though, I guess I'm there to learn, not to hang out with people after.

But man, at some of the hangs with my sempai's and sensei's at another dojo it was pretty cool to hear everything they had to say. I can't lie, I do miss the social aspect (among others) at my previous dojo, which had lots of people my age, a huge mix of cultures, and frequent trips to the watering hole after keiko. Too far to travel for me though.

[Fallen]

When I started Kendo I did so because I was interested in the art, not in making friends, in saying that the people who attend every class I have a fairly strong bond with. As others have said, if you spend enough time with people its only natural your going to bond unless you actually dislike someone. Generally when someone starts there is almost always a period of "probation" as we see many many people start and leave after a short time, we do try and get them involved as soon as possible in drills even if it's just men cuts against someone in armour, but there does seem to be a bogu/non-bogu division, unfortunately that is inevitable. In terms of making friends with people at your own age, I'd suggest attending some competitions once your in armour, even before that go and watch/help with timekeeping, setup or whatever, you'll meet people from your general area and learn alot at the same time.

[Bogu Headache]

Hearing about a "probation period" makes me feel better; I started Kendo last week after a long wait, and felt awkward around the more experienced members. It makes sense if so many new arrivals leave, though, so I guess I'll look forward to carrying on (thought of practice got me through a new job this week).