Swords from Ninecircles

[Takeda]

Has anyone of you out there made some experiences with swords from Ninecircles in the UK? I would be specially interested in the SK-2A with Hi-Ire. My main focus is Iai-do but down the road there might be some Tameshegiri and the sword should be able to handle both to a certain point.

Are these swords far away from a "real" made in Japan shinken? I would go only for the forged version due to weight reasons - not my weight ;-)... It´s not folded that´s what I´m trying to say. The price is a fraction of a japanese manufacture blade but would still tear a big hole in my personal budget.

I would appreciate your advice/recommondations/etc.

Günter

[Loki]

I don't know the quality of their swords, but it looks quite nice.
The fact that this sword is not made of folded steel doesn't really matter or do you want to cut something more resisting than straw? ;-)
Normal forged steel should be hard enough for that use. Sure there are some differences compared to a completely traditional made sword but the (in my opinion) most important step, the yaki-ire, is done the japanese way. The hamon looks good and the all possible fittings too. It's not cheap but a good sword has its price.
That's just my point of view. I hope it helps a bit.

[kgh]

If it applies, I would also suggest asking your instructor, especially in the event you are purchasing a "live" blade. In my experience, most sensei have vendors they regularly use/suggest and can occasionally get you a discount depending on their contacts.

[Takeda]

Many thanks for your replies....
I asked one of our senior sensei and he was more or less of the opinion that only a real japanese made shinken would do the job. He said that "nothing would beat the quality of the japanese swords..." He also mentioned that he was in contact with one of our sensei in the Netherlands who purchased a live blade in the US which was very expensive and a) too heavy b) unbalanced c) too long. He also said that most of the non-japanese blades would be too weak and too unsafe when doing batto-giri resp. tameshegiri.

I think that I can minimize at least the first three points because you can specify the lenght of the blade and out of that more or less the length of the Tsuka and I know that the weight of the forged blade will be appr. 960g which seems to be okay for iai-do too. (My Iai-to has appr. 680g)

As far as the balance goes I think you really have to hold the sword in your own hands to tell if it feels good for you. Ninecircles offers a return-policy - so I can send back the blade in case I´m not happy with it.

To be honest 5000,-- to 7.000,-- EUROS for a new made japanese shinken is simply too much for me. The Ninecircles sword is not cheap but is somehow affordable. I personally think that it would do the job for me. Maybe it will bend (but hopefully not break) when you cut heavier makis but I hope it will be possible to straighten it either with a cut in the opposite direction or with some manual straightening. (Is there already a thread for "how to straighten my bent sword"??)

@Loki: best regards from Bruck an der Mur - I assume you train Kendo in Graz?

[kgh]

If you are looking for an affordable blade for primarily Iaido, but also occasionally doing tameshigiri, you might check out the Steel Iaito from http://www.swordstore.com (http://www.swordstore.com/) (Nosyuiaido).

It is important to understand that the blades used in tameshigiri are often not the swords used in everyday iaido training. Tameshigiri blades are often heavier and have a more prounounced wedge shape (thicker mune). The specifics have a lot to do with a persons taste and their cutting style/ryuha. One tameshigiri blade a sensei let me get a feel for at a shiai was almost straight, rather short and extremely heavy.

Blades for tameshigiri are also (obviously) kept as sharp as possible, which makes them dangerous for iai practice. Shinken used primarily in iai often have the edge slightly "taken off". While not dull, they are less likely to cut you should you make very light contact with one of your soft fleshy bits. This process does not ruin the blade by any means, as the edge can be restored when you want to cut, however you do need to know how to do so.

Also to take into consideration is that tameshigiri can wreak havok on the polish of a blade, which costs a lot to have done (or redone) in the first place.

Finally, yes, you can straighten a blade. How you go about it depends on how badly it has been buggered. The various ways include high tech methods like bending i over your knee or placing the blade over two softwood block and using a soft hammer to pound it straight again. If you have really bent the blade, or worse yet, twisted it, there are tools made specifically for the task of straightening.

All that said, buying an expensive sword for your first live blade is not really a good idea or necessary. You can get blades made just for wacking on stuff for a reasonable price. Part of what helps the price be lower is that they often lack the expensive fittings that accompany highend shinken.

[Takeda]

I also checked their page but the "standard" fittings that I picked brought me up to a price of 1998,-- USD without shipping. The comparable blade at Ninecircles costs about 1.480,-- USD including an extra Bag, a sword-care set and shipping.

Further I saw somewhere in a thread that also the Swordstore steel-iaito are made in China. I don´t know if this is correct but it could be if you just look at the price gap to their shinken.

Sharpening: good point! I checked some webpages about this too. It seems to be rather difficult to properly sharpen or better polish a sword. How do you do this?

Your are absolutely right. That´s why I really tend to buy the blade from Ninecircles. Maybe in ten or fifteen year I have some extra money to spend for a "real" shinken or maybe even an antique katana. But for a start this blade should work fine for me. I don´t actually care about fancy fittings - I like it plain and straight.

[kgh]

Unless you know what you are doing, I honestly would not suggest trying to polish or sharpen a sword, as it is one of the best ways to ruin a blade.

On a different note, I across some interesing information about a blades edge geometry in regards to what you want to cut. (The following is taken from ejmas.com)
-------------------------------
Ohmi sensei then went on to discuss how to appraise a blade. This was definitely not a lecture in sword collecting since the appraisal was concerned with whether or not the blade could withstand the shock of cutting. Various fatal and non fatal kizu (flaws) were outlined. A discussion of edge geometry was next, with the various shapes from "clam shell" (convex) to concave being described and the reason for each. The "clam shell" shape is the strongest edge and is perhaps not as suitable as others for modern cutting materials such as mats and newspaper, but is the only shape that should be used for straw or dry bamboo. A flat blade from shinogi to ha (ridgeline on the side of the blade to the edge) makes for a lighter blade and a better wedge shape to go through wet mats. A concave edge makes for a razor thin cutting surface and is good for single sheets of newsprint or even hanging thread, but is a very weak edge for heavier materials such as straw, dry bamboo or even mats.

[Richie224]

Did you look here?

http://www.eurobogu.net/index.php?continent=europe

or here

http://www.bogubag.com/Swords/swords_intro.html

I think they basically come from the same company in Japan and I believe they are directly shipped to you from there. Bogubag the US annexe and is run by Robert Stroud and is very helpful. Custom Iaito are available.

Eurobogu is obviously based in Europe and the prices include shipping.

[Loki]

Takeda,
you are right. I'm from Allerheiligen i.M. and training Kendo in Graz via USI.
If you are interrested in basics of sword polishing, then I may borrow you the book "The Craft of the Japanese Sword". It gives detailed information about the making of a sword from the first hammer strike to the finished blade resting in its shira-saya. This includes a good chapter about polishing.

[chidokan]

I have two from Nine circles here, one is a lovely sword made in ENGLAND by a guy who lives close to Gloucester, the other an iaito. I wouldnt use the shinken for tameshigiri as it is too nice to risk damaging it. Balance is beautiful, one of the nicest blades I have had.
Be really careful about straightening swords... they are bent because of internal crystalline structure damage, so should be corrected by someone who knows what they are doing Next time they may snap at the same point if you use the same bad technique.....

[another newbie]

Perhaps you might have a look on last legened.

http://www.lastlegend.com/05kat/05kat.htm

...might suit you as you stated you need a reasonable priced blade, not fancy fittings. I have no personal expierience with these swords (I'm rather a rookie), but heard many positive things in various forums... You might also have a look (or chat) with their European dealer, who is based in southern Germany:

http://www.nordavind.net/

Good Luck !!! Niels