利生突き（りしょうづき) or Rishou-zuki

[DCPan]

Hey, can someone translate this?

敵出る頭へ、此方諸手にてシナイを向うへ一文字に延ばせば、向うより自然と突き掛かることあり、これを俗に 利生突き（りしょうづき）という。この業をなすには、始終向うへ追いかぶさるようにして、向うのシナイを押 さえ押さえ込み居て、向うの起こる頭へ出さねば、この突きは無益にて、恐ろし、怖しという此方に心配あって は、とても出来ぬ業なり。

from http://www.shuhari.info/chiba.html

Also, got it from here

http://yoko-ken.hacca.jp/net_doujyou/siryou/014waza.htm

迎突・利生突・出頭突
　　　相手の攻め打ち突に出たところを迎え利かし諸手を伸ばして突く。

[tango]

The EngRish translation that babelfish comes up with is pretty entertaining...

[swyn]

[QUOTE=DCPan;361012]Hey, can someone translate this?

敵出る頭へ、此方諸手にてシナイを向うへ一文字に延ばせば、向うより自然と突き掛かることあり、これを俗に 利生突き（りしょうづき）という。この業をなすには、始終向うへ追いかぶさるようにして、向うのシナイを押 さえ押さえ込み居て、向うの起こる頭へ出さねば、この突きは無益にて、恐ろし、怖しという此方に心配あって は、とても出来ぬ業なり。

QUOTE]

There are a few expressions I'm not completely clear on, but will try...

"as your opponent starts the attack (degashira), you extend your shinai straight ahead with both hands causing your opponent naturally run into your shinai. This is so-called "risho zuki". (Here comes the part harder to translate, anyone can help?) In order to do this waza, you have to keep your shinai on top of the opponents' shinai keeping pressure on top of it, and grasp the very moment your opponent starts the attack. Otherwise it won't work, if there is any fear on your part, you won't be able to do this."

"Oikabusaru" (追いかぶさる) used here to express the pressure to the opponent's shinai is the word I'm having most difficulty with. "ou" is chase, "kabusaru" is hanging over it.

Somewhat old type writing, and unfortunately as a kendo beginner I lack in-depth knowlege.

Yuko

[Halcyon]

(Here comes the part harder to translate, anyone can help?) In order to do this waza, you have to keep your shinai on top of the opponents' shinai keeping pressure on top of it, and grasp the very moment your opponent starts the attack. Otherwise it won't work, if there is any fear on your part, you won't be able to do this."
Actually, that makes perfect sense. Sounds like another word for mukae-zuki.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Kind of an osae-waza, don't you think, Paul? That part about riding on top of aite's shinai on your way in to tsuki.

[Halcyon]

Kind of an osae-waza, don't you think, Paul? That part about riding on top of aite's shinai on your way in to tsuki.
Indeed. I agree.

Personally, I find this to be a very difficult waza because when I try tsuki this way, my opponent tends to move his shiai up a little bit, thereby deflecting my shinai. I reckon I have some kind of "tell" that I'm telegraphing. Must practice more.

The few times where tsuki has worked for me is when I actually lower my kensen off to the side and then come back up.

[Sasayaki]

Kind of an osae-waza, don't you think, Paul? That part about riding on top of aite's shinai on your way in to tsuki.

How exactly do you ride on top of aite's shinai? I've seen it done, but it's something I've never tried or looked into.

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's one of those things I'd have to show you. It's mostly tenouchi.

[slidercrank]

if there is any fear on your part, you won't be able to do this."



I find that to be true in general for all kendo waza's from my limited kendo experience.

[atgm]

I don't know if it's immediately clear to everyone here due to the romanization, but the "zuki" in "rishou-zuki" is actually "dzuki", which is "tsuki"... which makes sense since it's a tsuki technique.

My sensei's been talking about this a bit lately and paying special attention to where our shinai are pointed when we're in chuudan, since they should naturally be in a position to be able to do this. It's harder for the kids, I think, because there are so many people at drastically different heights around now.

[Oroshi]

Actually, that makes perfect sense. Sounds like another word for mukae-zuki.
Late to the thread, but this:


迎突・利生突・出頭突
　　　相手の攻め打ち突に出たところを迎え利かし諸手を伸ばして突く。

Says


Mukae-zuki / Rishō-zuki / Degashira-zuki
When your opponent moves to tsuki, meet his movement, extend both your arms and tsuki.
So yes, it's another word for mukae-zuki.

Of course, until now I'd never heard of mukae-zuki...

[DCPan]

I didn't know that 迎 is the kanji for mukae in mukae-zuki.

Much appreciated!

Honestly though, I never thought of mukae-zuki in the same light as "degashira/debana-zuki".

I always interpreted mukae-zuki as more of the "oh crap he's coming what do I do tsuki" instead of a planned one...guess I'm wrong.

YMMV.

[swyn]

I didn't know that 迎 is the kanji for mukae in mukae-zuki.

Much appreciated!

Honestly though, I never thought of mukae-zuki in the same light as "degashira/debana-zuki".

I always interpreted mukae-zuki as more of the "oh crap he's coming what do I do tsuki" instead of a planned one...guess I'm wrong.

YMMV.

DCPan,

I found an interesting post on some Japanese Kendo Forum as I was searching for alternative words. This guy said he thinks there are two types of mukae-zuki, one is "oh crap he's coming, I have to defend", and the other is aggressive one as described in this thread. It wasn't clear if the word "Risyo-zuki" specifically refers to the aggressive sort, I'll post more info if I find more. (Have to leave soon this a.m. for Kendo training...) Sounds to me that it originated someone's waza (Risyo sounds like someone's name to me), I'd love to find out about it.

The word "Degashira" only means "the moment your opponent starts moving", so I guess it can be used in different context.
"mukaeru" is "to receive", the word is neutral though I feel more passive connotation to it.

Any opinions, other native Japanese speakers?
(As I often find different opinions on words...)

Yuko

[Oroshi]

DCPan,

I found an interesting post on some Japanese Kendo Forum as I was searching for alternative words. This guy said he thinks there are two types of mukae-zuki, one is "oh crap he's coming, I have to defend", and the other is aggressive one as described in this thread. It wasn't clear if the word "Risyo-zuki" specifically refers to the aggressive sort, I'll post more info if I find more. (Have to leave soon this a.m. for Kendo training...) Sounds to me that it originated someone's waza (Risyo sounds like someone's name to me), I'd love to find out about it.
Kōjien time.

利生 is a buddhist word, meaning 仏が衆生を利益（りやく）すること。

In simple terms (i.e. terms which I can understand), it refers to the blessing of the Buddha on all living things. However it's a bit more complex than that: 利益（りやく） means ためになる, so the word actually means something like 'Buddha's use of living things that leads towards an ultimately advantageous goal.' Therefore I think it can refer to 'putting something to one's advantage.' Rishō-zuki seems, on a basic level, to be referring to 'seizing the initiative.'

Any minute now a Buddhist scholar / serious student of Japanese is going to come in and show me that I'm totally wrong.

[swyn]

Kōjien time.

利生 is a buddhist word, meaning 仏が衆生を利益（りやく）すること。

In simple terms (i.e. terms which I can understand), it refers to the blessing of the Buddha on all living things. However it's a bit more complex than that: 利益（りやく） means ためになる, so the word actually means something like 'Buddha's use of living things that leads towards an ultimately advantageous goal.' Therefore I think it can refer to 'putting something to one's advantage.' Rishō-zuki seems, on a basic level, to be referring to 'seizing the initiative.'

Any minute now a Buddhist scholar / serious student of Japanese is going to come in and show me that I'm totally wrong.

Ah, Oroshi, you were quicker than I! I got the answer from a kendo friend in Japan, got all excited & came here! lol

Thanks! It's very interesting, isn't it?

Yuko

[Josh Reyer]

ためになる would mean in this case "to be beneficial". 利益 refers to the grace, benefit, compassion given to people by the Buddhist "gods" because of their prayers or good deeds.

My impression is that, if you are good little kendoka, doing everything right with the right attitude, then this tsuki will fall right into your lap when your opponent moves forward.

[foundinsea]

Can I use this on a tenogui? Seems like good words of wisdom...no?

I'm trying to make some for our club but finding the right words is hard...I kinda like this saying though...