Can't decide which bogu + question

[kozy]

Yes again a "what bogu thread"...

Now the time has come for me to buy my first bogu, but i can't decide which one to buy.

First a general question. Some higher ranking guys/sensei (4. / 5. dan) in my club tell me that smaller stitch width gives better protection because the armor is stiffer/harder and thus you fell less of the impact.
Is that really true? Does stitch width matter more than material?

I limited my choice to a few models:
(all prices complete with shipping and tax)

onlinekendo BM-06 (http://onlinekendo.com/bogu.php?name=(BM-06)_General_4mm_Kendo_Bogu_Armor&kenid=26) (+deer leather palm)

4mm
#6000 cloth
naname men
cow leather (except palm)

cost: ~470€ (~595us$)


onlinekendo BM-02 (http://onlinekendo.com/bogu.php?name=(BM-02)_=Best_Sell=_2mm_Machine_Stitch_kendo_Bogu_Armo r&kenid=21) (+deer leather palm)

2mm
#8000 cloth
cow leather (except palm)

cost: ~500€ (~630us$)


sehyun no.301 (http://eng.sehyun-kumdo.com/sub_detail_product_view.php?code=A&sub_idx=6&p_idx=504&check_mode=&page=1) + kote from no. 240 (http://eng.sehyun-kumdo.com/sub_detail_product_view.php?code=A&sub_idx=6&p_idx=51&check_mode=&page=1) (deer)

3mm
#7000 cloth
naname men
cow leather (except kote)
kote completely deer and #8800

cost: ~520€ (~655us$)

(actually I'm a bit scared from ordering at sehyun because of their bad engrish, already had e-mail contact with them)


Since the price difference is very little it's probably better to go for one one the last two.
Any thoughts / comments?

[tango]

I'd do this for US$700 instead...

4mm from Tozando... bamboo dou and deerskin (not cow leather).

http://www.tozandoshop.com/URLrewrite.asp?404;http://www.tozandoshop.com:80/4_mm_Bogu_Set_p/002-19s.htm

It's about the same 4mm I got almost 10 years ago and it's still going strong...

[Neil Gendzwill]

For that money, I'd also look at Mori MC-38 (http://www.moribudo.co.jp/english/list/).

[kozy]

unfortunately those recommendations are way over my budget, you have to consider shipping and tax (20%) will be added.
the 4mm tozando would cost me ~800€, thats 60% more that the other sets.

can anyone answer my question about the stitching width from my first post?

[JSchmidt]

unfortunately those recommendations are way over my budget, you have to consider shipping and tax (20%) will be added.
the 4mm tozando would cost me ~800€, thats 60% more that the other sets.

can anyone answer my question about the stitching width from my first post?

Did you read the Bogu faq (http://kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11737)?

Yes, in broad terms tighter stitching = better protection, but it depends a lot on quality of the materials and workmanship.

[tango]

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that any 4.dan/5.dan would say that smaller/tighter stitching necessarily and always means the product is better.

I have witnessed people with 2mm bogu from a reputable supplier complain that it doesn't protect as well as thought it would.
I have worn 2mm kote from a reputable supplier and I know first-hand that it didn't protect as well as my 4mm kote from a different reputable supplier.

Some 2mm might be good, but I've yet to see any that were actually better or protected better than a 4mm... or a 3mm for that matter (NOTE: that's just MY experience). I've seen some 3mm that seemed as good as, if not better, than some 4mm. I've seen some 4mm and 5mm that protected better than some 3mm.

Today, it seems that smaller/tighter stitching also does NOT necessarily mean the product is stiffer/harder. I've seen 2mm kote that were quite flimsy because despite the tight stitching, they were simply too thin to offer any significant protection.

This is why I, personally, tend to recommend either no less than a 3mm or 4mm (and I usually lean towards a 4mm) because generally speaking, all the 3mm and 4mm I've seen have good padding without being/feeling overly bulky. In the past, I would shy away from recommending (for adults) 5mm+ because I always thought those things were too bulky and tended to get soft really fast, but today, there seem to be much better quality 5mm+ sets that it's not so much an issue. (That you can pay $600+ for a 6mm somewhere says something, I think).

My 2 cents.

[sirius1906]

Discussions on stitchings earlier: http://kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19061

[mugen no junin]

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that any 4.dan/5.dan would say that smaller/tighter stitching necessarily and always means the product is better.

I have witnessed people with 2mm bogu from a reputable supplier complain that it doesn't protect as well as thought it would.
I have worn 2mm kote from a reputable supplier and I know first-hand that it didn't protect as well as my 4mm kote from a different reputable supplier.

Some 2mm might be good, but I've yet to see any that were actually better or protected better than a 4mm... or a 3mm for that matter (NOTE: that's just MY experience). I've seen some 3mm that seemed as good as, if not better, than some 4mm. I've seen some 4mm and 5mm that protected better than some 3mm.

Today, it seems that smaller/tighter stitching also does NOT necessarily mean the product is stiffer/harder. I've seen 2mm kote that were quite flimsy because despite the tight stitching, they were simply too thin to offer any significant protection.

This is why I, personally, tend to recommend either no less than a 3mm or 4mm (and I usually lean towards a 4mm) because generally speaking, all the 3mm and 4mm I've seen have good padding without being/feeling overly bulky. In the past, I would shy away from recommending (for adults) 5mm+ because I always thought those things were too bulky and tended to get soft really fast, but today, there seem to be much better quality 5mm+ sets that it's not so much an issue. (That you can pay $600+ for a 6mm somewhere says something, I think).

My 2 cents.

My experience as well. consider that the tighter handmade stitching is 1.0 bu that's 3 mm more or less...oh there's that 0.8 bu from tezashi but that's another story...

take a look also to this one. a guy from my dojo got it, it's light, it's flexible and it's protectice and he's very happy with it.

http://onlinekendo.com/bogu.php?name=(BM-04)_Deluxe_4mm_Kendo_Bogu_Armor_Japanese_Material&kenid=22

cheers :smiley:

[Neil Gendzwill]

unfortunately those recommendations are way over my budget, you have to consider shipping and tax (20%) will be added.
the 4mm tozando would cost me ~800€, thats 60% more that the other sets.The MC-38 would come in at around 650€ including a bag and your tax, shipping would put you a little over but not much.

can anyone answer my question about the stitching width from my first post?I have yet to see a set that convinces me 2 mm stitching is necessary or desirable. In my opinion, quality of materials and construction trumps stitch width. At your budget, look for 4 mm or maybe 3 mm machine stitched bogu. And as always, you get what you pay for - trying to shop by saying "I can get 3 mm from this supplier cheaper than 3 mm from that supplier" is misleading.

[kozy]

I think I'm gonna order at sehyun.
I already asked them what measurement they need for do / tare, but they didn't answer that question, maybe they didn't understand it.
Do they only have universal size for do? Anyone already ordered at sehyun and knows that?