reverse sword grip?

[wagrta]

i have often seen where before the noto (resheathing of the sword) the person would do this cool spin to make it in to a reverse grip.......i was just wondering if anyone can teach me this since my sensai have no idea what i'm talking about.....therefore can't teach me. P.S anyone knows what it's called? i have often see it in competitions and people are guarding that technique like it's a dojo secret......



please and thank you
wayne hung,
iaido 2 dan, kendo 2 dan,

[Halcyon]

i have often seen where before the noto (resheathing of the sword) the person would do this cool spin to make it in to a reverse grip.......i was just wondering if anyone can teach me this since my sensai have no idea what i'm talking about.....therefore can't teach me. P.S anyone knows what it's called? i have often see it in competitions and people are guarding that technique like it's a dojo secret......
Surely you're joking. You're talking about gyaku-noto, right?

[chidokan]

what is your ryu? It may not contain this noto....

[Paikea]

Uh-oh...something's not right here. Truth is a better way, Wayne.

[DCPan]

You could always fly to Japan and pick up Sekiguchi Ryu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_oVekEiSBY

[hl1978]

i have often seen where before the noto (resheathing of the sword) the person would do this cool spin to make it in to a reverse grip.......i was just wondering if anyone can teach me this since my sensai have no idea what i'm talking about.....therefore can't teach me. P.S anyone knows what it's called? i have often see it in competitions and people are guarding that technique like it's a dojo secret......



please and thank you
wayne hung,
iaido 2 dan, kendo 2 dan,

In various versions of ukenagashi, you preform noto with a reverse grip with which there is some of a spin, are you refering to that motion?

[Ralutin]

i have often seen where before the noto (resheathing of the sword) the person would do this cool spin to make it in to a reverse grip.......i was just wondering if anyone can teach me this since my sensai have no idea what i'm talking about.....therefore can't teach me. P.S anyone knows what it's called? i have often see it in competitions and people are guarding that technique like it's a dojo secret......



please and thank you
wayne hung,
iaido 2 dan, kendo 2 dan,

If you're 'sensai' has no idea what you're talking about, as far as a reverse grip noto, I question your 'sensai' and dojo/style.

Who is your 'sensai,' what dojo do you practice with and what style do you practice?

[Fukuryu]

I think he's talking about kaiten chiburi.

[DCPan]

I think he's talking about kaiten chiburi.

The TSKSR kaiten chiburi doesn't end up in a reverse grip though...it's just a rotation along the axis of the blade.

[Allan Yee]

i have often seen where before the noto (resheathing of the sword) the person would do this cool spin to make it in to a reverse grip.......i was just wondering if anyone can teach me this since my sensai have no idea what i'm talking about.....therefore can't teach me.


If you're 'sensai' has no idea what you're talking about, as far as a reverse grip noto, I question your 'sensai' and dojo/style.

Perhaps it's the spinning business and not the reverse grip that is confusing his sensei. I'm having difficulty envisioning it also. Something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrBlmD8e00&feature=related), or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00BgFrNEK9Y), or perhaps this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbjFRzvnqc)?

Wayne, can you describe your noto no kamae (is that a word? stance for resheathing?) and in what plane the sword rotates?

Allan
just curious

[GZA]

nice vids you posted.

What is the one when you place the Tsuki in your palm and rotate some crazy way? I hear its a variation of a way onced used on horseback. MJER

[Fukuryu]

The TSKSR kaiten chiburi doesn't end up in a reverse grip though...it's just a rotation along the axis of the blade.

Yep... and then reverse gripped before noto. It's the only serious technique I can think about, otherwise, could be "MMA-tournament-style sword flipping". Oh gosh, I really hope it is not that...

[GZA]

TsuBA not tsuKI...sorry

[DCPan]

Yep... and then reverse gripped before noto. It's the only serious technique I can think about, otherwise, could be "MMA-tournament-style sword flipping". Oh gosh, I really hope it is not that...

I figured that's what you were saying...there's tons of style that has gyaku-noto...but not very many with a chiburi that changes your grip in the process into gyaku noto.

Really, sounds more like Lone Wolf and Cub chiburi to me. What he does in the movie isn't hard to figure out with frame advance....

[satsumaruma]

I think Wagrta may well be referring to Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu and/or Takenouchi Ryu.

From the (very) little i know of these styles both emply a 'spinning' action as a chiburi through the use of the right hand releasing the grip somewhat and spinning the sword through 360 degrees. I did think the right hand took the tsuka in a gyakute fashion before doing noto though. Maybe I am wrong!

[ScottUK]

You're talking about kaiten chiburi, Sats. However, I shall park my good self in a big chair with popcorn and nutritious beverages nonetheless.

[satsumaruma]

You're talking about kaiten chiburi, Sats. However, I shall park my good self in a big chair with popcorn and nutritious beverages nonetheless.


Is that what it is called? Cool

Yes, you do need to maintain that physique somehow - popcorn and full-fat fizzy drinks should just about do it:)

[ScottUK]

Hah! Envy is a terrible thing.

Anyway, enough of that - I'm looking forward to hearing more of Wagrta's ryu...

[swyn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AH2HrLtGCg

this guy does it REALLY fast, you can hardly see what's going on...

[wagrta]

haha sorry i practice musoshinden ryu in taiwan.......and no it's not gyaku noto.....and i'm talking about a spin motion where it looks like 360 degrees like satsumaruma said...... [URL="http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=LcJUvkhw8WU"]http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=LcJUvkhw8WU[/URL yes i know this is gumdo but this is the only thing that i can find a close match to, looking at the second person that was doing cutting right before he does his noto he does that spin thing then his grip turns to reverse...........i don't know my sensai's name in english but this is his chinese name...陳秀俠.......and this is my dojo name also in chinese.....陳秀俠居合道劍道館.....

[DCPan]

I thought he was referring to kill counter 22, 23, and 59 :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zumsNgGqWVY&feature=related

[DCPan]

haha sorry i practice musoshinden ryu in taiwan.......and no it's not gyaku noto.....and i'm talking about a spin motion where it looks like 360 degrees like satsumaruma said...... [URL="http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=LcJUvkhw8WU"]http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=LcJUvkhw8WU[/URL yes i know this is gumdo but this is the only thing that i can find a close match to, looking at the second person that was doing cutting right before he does his noto he does that spin thing then his grip turns to reverse...........i don't know my sensai's name in english but this is his chinese name...陳秀俠.......and this is my dojo name also in chinese.....陳秀俠居合道劍道館.....

Oh that's easy...what happens at 1:19 right?

That's a forward figure 8 into a reverse figure 8 noto.... Anybody who watched Conan the Barbarian can do that one :D

[wagrta]

yea but that's the problem it's not actually like that but just spinning twice...or once ?

[DCPan]

If you're 'sensai' has no idea what you're talking about, as far as a reverse grip noto, I question your 'sensai' and dojo/style.

Who is your 'sensai,' what dojo do you practice with and what style do you practice?


居合道：每週一~五─19:00~21:00
館主介紹 陳秀俠先生
教練介紹 陳秀俠先生
道館簡史
　本館是陳秀俠先生成立的私人居合道館，陳先生就讀於淡水工商(現真理大學)時，隨八段黃共芳老師研習劍道 ，與吳建文老師為前後期同學，後並從其踏入居合道。

　　數年前，原練習處蔡瑞月舞蹈紀念館，不幸遭人焚毀，先生於是闢出自宅一樓供學生練習居合道及劍道。　　 　　
　　先生為人親切熱忱，觀念開明，教學內容除以制定居合及夢想神傳流外，也廣納各派古流，與學生共同參研練 習，故深受輕年學子愛戴，館員也以學生為多。

　　秀俠道館大部份以居合道為主，但也兼教劍道，目前有近二十名國小學生參加，家長都之極熱心支持，表示孩 子學習效果良好，對品性及耐力、體能大有助益。　

I believe his sensei is legit as his sensei is a colleague of Wu sensei who demonstrated at 13th WKC.

[Ookami7]

If your talking about Musoshinden then its not in the waza, its probably Katori Shinto ryu ie diff school. So not very applicable to the ryuha you study. If you want to learn it or figure it out as long as its a legit one go for it. My sensei has drilled into me in regards to kaewaza, first learn the core tech, then you can add the kaewaza, but first and formost always demonstarte the core tech!

[Kim Taylor]

Oh damn

I thought I was going to get in a Bwahahahahahaha

Well what the heck... bwahahahahahaha since I ran the Heidong Gumdo vid again, it's the same mechanism but not the same noto.

I stole a spin to gyaku noto from Don Harvey a bazillion years ago, he made the mistake of showing it to me a second time.

I'll show anyone once, live, no video tape. You get it or not.

Bwahahahahaha

No I won't teach it to anyone, go steal it. It's just flash, no real meaning and it's damned dangerous with a shinken.

Kim Taylor

[Halcyon]

Now that we know what you're talking about, it sheds some light on your first post.

i have often see it in competitions and people are guarding that technique like it's a dojo secret......
A couple of points.
1. Are these iaido competitions you're talking about?
2. I don't think it's that people are "guarding that technique like it's a dojo secret." People aren't teaching it to you because that kind of noto is not a part of any ryuha that I know of. As far as I can tell, it's a move concocted by sword buffs and movie swordsmen. (Anyone feel free to correct me on this if they know of any koryu that does noto this way.)

[Kim Taylor]

(Anyone feel free to correct me on this if they know of any koryu that does noto this way.)

MJER, Bangai Den, variation on Shiho Barai noto.

As I said, same mechanism, just went and tried it and it works for the HDGD double twirly thing.

Kim Taylor

[DCPan]

yea but that's the problem it's not actually like that but just spinning twice...or once ?

*sigh* OK

After the chiburi

Raise so the sword points up, then

do a complete outside 360

do another complete outside 360

on the third time down, roll the tsuka between your hand into reverse grip so when the sword points up again upon completing the third 360, you're reverse gripping

then do kesagiri back-handed

allow the tip go past to point behind you to get in position to noto

very simple huh?

[wagrta]

it's not really iaido competition but is was more of a demo, and i guess freestyle was one of the demo............but anyways i asked some people to teach it to me and they just looked at and smiled ans said no it's our secret...... they probley took it from movies but i got to admit when i first saw that i was like wow that is tight i want to learn that

[wagrta]

P.S. sorry if i confused you guys on the first post i was kinda in a hurry and had written that entire thing on my itouch that's why i did'nt include alot of detail.....

[DCPan]

yea but that's the problem it's not actually like that but just spinning twice...or once ?

Just so you know, the detail is not important...it's just using the momentum of the forward twirl to help you change into the reverse grip cross cut into noto...whether you do figure 8 or outside 360 doesn't change anything, which why I didn't take a good look at the HDGD video the first time.

[Peter West]

MJER, Bangai Den, variation on Shiho Barai noto.

As I said, same mechanism, just went and tried it and it works for the HDGD double twirly thing.

Kim Taylor

At the risk of sounding a purist... would you really use a flashy twirly film effect in Shiho barai?

Kaushakku maybe, but Shiho barai never!!!

[Kim Taylor]

At the risk of sounding a purist... would you really use a flashy twirly film effect in Shiho barai?

Kaushakku maybe, but Shiho barai never!!!

Depends on what dojo one is opening/purifying yes? The local super-samurai-kids academy might be the perfect place for it.

Might not use it in public myself, but it gets pulled out every couple of years to see if the students are awake.


Kaushakku? For the local meat packing plant?

Kim Taylor

[Peter West]

Depends on what dojo one is opening/purifying yes? The local super-samurai-kids academy might be the perfect place for it.

Might not use it in public myself, but it gets pulled out every couple of years to see if the students are awake.


Kaushakku? For the local meat packing plant?

Kim Taylor

I give up. I did my moral duty by responding...

[satsumaruma]

No I won't teach it to anyone, go steal it. It's just flash, no real meaning and it's damned dangerous with a shinken.

Kim Taylor

I would expect that Otake Sensei would disagree with you on that point.

And surely the point of a shinken is that it IS dangerous. No point devising a weapon of war which isn't dangerous.

"Ah thou saucy knave, thou hast assail'd my good name with thine perfidy. I challenge thee to a duel. Wet kippers at dawn it shall be":)


I give up. I did my moral duty by responding...

have you tried being immoral? no more effective but a shit load more fun:ko:

[Peter West]

have you tried being immoral? no more effective but a shit load more fun:ko:

With Kim?.... I dunno

[satsumaruma]

Kim's a ...a.........MAN?

whoopsy

[ScottUK]

I would expect that Otake Sensei would disagree with you on that point.Actually, the thing that Kim is talking about is not the TSKSR chiburi. Lines crossed and all that.

[rottunpunk]

i agree with kim
tim uses that shiho barai to wow the new kids and show them its not as easy as it looks
i dont like it but thats just my opinion, also beacuse i find said noto tricky

also, kaishaku for a twirly noto?
small respectful gyakku noto for us
same as ukenagashi noto but smaller
:p

[Oroshi]

also, kaishaku for a twirly noto?
small respectful gyakku noto for us
same as ukenagashi noto but smaller
:p
Oshita sensei teaches the same.

[Kendoka_Han]

i have often seen where before the noto (resheathing of the sword) the person would do this cool spin to make it in to a reverse grip.......i was just wondering if anyone can teach me this since my sensai have no idea what i'm talking about.....therefore can't teach me. P.S anyone knows what it's called? i have often see it in competitions and people are guarding that technique like it's a dojo secret......



please and thank you
wayne hung,
iaido 2 dan, kendo 2 dan,

Your 2nd Dan in Iaido and 2nd Dan in kendo! Whao....lol

[pgsmith]

Your 2nd Dan in Iaido and 2nd Dan in kendo! Whao....lol
Settle down there kettle! :D

[wagrta]

Your 2nd Dan in Iaido and 2nd Dan in kendo! Whao....lol

yea it's not really something to be happy about the moment i got both my 2 dans i kinda just quit.............then i took up tae kwon do.........yea big change........right now i have forgotten all most of the techniques, right now i might as well start back in kyu

[ScottUK]

I'm assuming these grades are ZNKR ones? If so, you've been practicing for a minimum of 2.5 to 3 years - and you've forgot the techniques?


Settle down there kettle! :DSorry, rep button busted...

[wagrta]

it' not that i forgotten......i remember everything but not at the point of my prime........like i found myself with very sloppy forms and making common mistakes.........it feel like back in kyu where i just started..............