Fighting Spirit

[jmaia]

Hi there,

Forgive me for my ignorance, but Switzerland will be the first European championships I will be participating in, so I was wondering about the Fighting Spirit award. How is it awarded ? What are the criteria ? How does one evaluate 'Fighting Spirit' ? What are your personal views about it, both the Judges' and the Competitors' ?

Ths first time I participated in an international competition was this year in January in Eindhoven (10th Ishido Cup), and I was quite intrigued by the Fighting Spirit award, hence the question.

Thank you and best regards to all,

jm

[Peter West]

The fighting spirit award is awarded purely at the discretion of the referees. There are no fixed criteria. The circumstances will determine. For example if the eventual winner was in a class of his own, way ahead of the standard of the others he might win it. If a highly skilled competitor is knocked out in a nearly round, but with a different draw might have gained a medal, he might win it. If a contestant losses a match that the senior referees think he should have won, and therefore got further, he might win it. If a competitor has an unfortunate moment (loses balance for example) and recovers strongly and without being perturbed by the error, he might win it. If a competitor has a lot of spirit but looses on technical correctness, he might win it. There are so many possibilities. One thing is for sure, you don't prepare and train, then enter the competition hoping or intending to win it.

[rottunpunk]

also wear a zekken else they wont even consider you for it
good luck in the comp
:p

[jmaia]

Thank you for your answer, I got the basic idea about it, now.


One thing is for sure, you don't prepare and train, then enter the competition hoping or intending to win it.

I had already figured that out, and I'm really not worried about winning it or not. I was just curious as to whether there were any specified criteria about it.

By the way, is it an award that is given in Iaido and Jodo competitions worldwide ? Does it get awarded in competitions in Japan as well, for example ? Or is it an 'Europe', or 'western' thing ?

Best regards,

jm

[Peter West]

Thank you for your answer, I got the basic idea about it, now.



I had already figured that out, and I'm really not worried about winning it or not. I was just curious as to whether there were any specified criteria about it.

By the way, is it an award that is given in Iaido and Jodo competitions worldwide ? Does it get awarded in competitions in Japan as well, for example ? Or is it an 'Europe', or 'western' thing ?

Best regards,

jm
No, this is done in Japan too

[Peter West]

also wear a zekken else they wont even consider you for it
good luck in the comp
:p

Absolutely, if the referees don't know who you are, they can't discuss you behind your back.

Every team at the Europeans should have their country's zekken, so it shouldn't be a problem in Switzerland. In national competitions when competitors don't dress correctly (ZNKR rules are clear, and published in English) then the referees cannot consider people they don't know.

[rottunpunk]

znkr rules are expensive to buy
plus im a conservative anarchist

perhaps they should put a dress code on the back of the entry form or something
:p

[jmaia]

The fighting spirit award is awarded purely at the discretion of the referees. There are no fixed criteria. The circumstances will determine. For example if the eventual winner was in a class of his own, way ahead of the standard of the others he might win it. If a highly skilled competitor is knocked out in a nearly round, but with a different draw might have gained a medal, he might win it. If a contestant losses a match that the senior referees think he should have won, and therefore got further, he might win it. If a competitor has an unfortunate moment (loses balance for example) and recovers strongly and without being perturbed by the error, he might win it. If a competitor has a lot of spirit but looses on technical correctness, he might win it.

I wonder if people that get awarded the 'Fighting Spirit' award ever know why they were awarded ?

jm

[Peter West]

I wonder if people that get awarded the 'Fighting Spirit' award ever know why they were awarded ?

jm

The reason is not announced.

[Peter West]

znkr rules are expensive to buy
plus im a conservative anarchist

perhaps they should put a dress code on the back of the entry form or something
:p

I know your are an anarchist, that much is clear, and opposed to progress too, that is evident! However, for anyone who wishes to take part in competition, I don't think £7.00 for a copy of the rules in English is too steep.

Who reads the back of an entry form? Less than read the rule book I suspect.:)

[rottunpunk]

i read entry forms
and for 7.00 i can buy so many lots of sweeties and biscuits :D
:p

EDIT: oi what do you mean im opposed to progress?

[Peter West]

i read entry forms
and for 7.00 i can buy so many lots of sweeties and biscuits :D
:p

of course, how silly of me!

[jmaia]

The reason is not announced.

Cool ! So, the person who wins the award only know that he / she did something really good during the embu but never actually gets to know what it was... :)

Maybe it is a way of teaching... Like making the student look into his / her performance and try and find out what it was that earned him / her the award. Could it be ?

jm

[Peter West]

Cool ! So, the person who wins the award only know that he / she did something really good during the embu but never actually gets to know what it was... :)

Maybe it is a way of teaching... Like making the student look into his / her performance and try and find out what it was that earned him / her the award. Could it be ?

jm

I don't know. I can tell you it feels good to get it. In 2006 I won gold in the European Championships 6th dan section and in 2007 I won bronze and fighting spirit in the same level. It felt much better winning the fighting spirit than the gold. Perhaps because it was awarded by election from the overall performance. I don't know. Andy Watson won one in the 5th Dan section last year too, and he agreed with me at the time that the fighting spirit award meant more to him than the gold medal.

I really can't say why that is.

[satsumaruma]

Perhaps its a nicer trophy.

[Peter West]

Perhaps its a nicer trophy.

It certainly was. That must be it.

[Andy_Watson]

Perhaps its a nicer trophy.

Yep, no doupt about it, it was prettier.

I like to think in my case that the judges were saying "well done, you won and all the time while being a complete raspberry!"

Political correctness earmuffs - ON!

[Suhail_Merchant]

I was bewildered when I won Fighting Spirit at a friendly taikai a couple of years ago - it was during the team event, and I only had one match before I was knocked out (against someone two or three grades above me), so it was also quite unexpected. If I remember right, I clumsily dropped the award when Aoki sensei presented it to me. He thought it was hilarious.


Suhail Merchant

[xvikingx]

A "fighting spirit" award for iaido??? Funny, you'd think one of the criteria for such an award would be some actual fighting!

No, this is done in Japan too
I have never once seen anything of the sort awarded at any of the taikai I've been to.

[Suhail_Merchant]

Didn't stop Haruna sensei winning it at least 60 times: http://www.ifh.ee.ethz.ch/~ballisti/iaido/interview-Haruna.html

[xvikingx]

Didn't stop Haruna sensei winning it at least 60 times: http://www.ifh.ee.ethz.ch/~ballisti/iaido/interview-Haruna.html
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I haven't been to every competition in every region of this country. I know; it's shocking but true. I'm simply suggesting that maybe it's not as common over here as some might think.
He doesn't really go into detail about his fighting spirit award and so we really don't know on basis he was awarded them but simply assume that it's the same as the fighting spirit award that is being discussed in this thread. I have been to taikai where 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are given their awards accordingly and the rest of the people who made the top ten, in every division (mudan through 7dan), received a certificate praising their "fighting spirit". Which is just a colorful of saying "good job for making the top ten", not "you showed such spirit that made you stand out amongst the 100s of other people here".

[Suhail_Merchant]

I have been to taikai where 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are given their awards accordingly and the rest of the people who made the top ten, in every division (mudan through 7dan), received a certificate praising their "fighting spirit". Which is just a colorful of saying "good job for making the top ten", not "you showed such spirit that made you stand out amongst the 100s of other people here".

I see. I'm not familiar with that system. It's not what happens here.

I've only been to a couple of taikai, but I don't recall more than one FS award being presented for any given event. Someone with more experience will be able to tell you more.

"He doesn't really go into detail about his fighting spirit award and so we really don't know on basis he was awarded them but simply assume that it's the same as the fighting spirit award that is being discussed in this thread."

I assume it's the same; the organization is the same. The ZNKR.

[xvikingx]

I should have been more specific. I was just keeping it short like Mr. West.
I've only been to ZNKR events but things vary from region to region, as the local renmei does their own thing within the ZNKR boundries.

[Ookami7]

Yup various regions/ dojo`s do their own things in regards to competitions. My dojo holds a small local competition for the North Western dojos in Tokyo area under the ZNKR . One of the awards usual goes to 5th dan I think, will have to ask about it later. Is a helmet as a trouphy. Looking closer at it this yr and asking some of the senpai, sensei looks like its a reproduction. If its the real deal then probably more just display since its pretty thin metal. Do reg medals/ trouphies etc as well.

[Sasayaki]

I don't know. I can tell you it feels good to get it. In 2006 I won gold in the European Championships 6th dan section and in 2007 I won bronze and fighting spirit in the same level. It felt much better winning the fighting spirit than the gold. Perhaps because it was awarded by election from the overall performance. I don't know. Andy Watson won one in the 5th Dan section last year too, and he agreed with me at the time that the fighting spirit award meant more to him than the gold medal.

I really can't say why that is.

I would guess because the gold represents winning, and the fighting spirit represents that they saw how hard you were trying and how strong your spirit is, which not everyone has even those who win, so it would be a very big honor. Especially to be noticed out of all the others. Kind of seems to add a glow to your step and help inspire you to stay strong and practice hard.

[satsumaruma]

Yep, no doupt about it, it was prettier.

I like to think in my case that the judges were saying "well done, you won and all the time while being a complete raspberry!"

Political correctness earmuffs - ON!

is it politically correct to use the word "muff" in the same sentence as the phrase "politically correct"?:ko: