tenouchi (wringing a towel)

[Davey]

For tenouchi you are supposed to wring a towel out. Here's the question I wanted to ask but I can't find it (yes i used the search function :confused2) How much water are you wringing out of the towel ? How much pressure after the cut?

[khoung]

To simply put it... its more like a twitch

Anything longer than a twitch it becomes a thud rather than a cut if that makes any sense?

[xvikingx]

The "wringing a towel out" is just imagry. If you really performed tenouchi like you were wringing out a towel you'd be over doing it.

[atgm]

It's nothing like wringing a towel for me; I use my arms and wrists to twist a towel. It's a terrible image for me.

The idea is that you're supposed to have a relatively loose grip, with most of the power being in the pinkie and ring fingers of your left hand. The wringing part comes from (I guess) the way your hands are positioned in a proper grip as well as the fact that you're supposed to tighten slightly on impact.

[Exia00]

This is what I heard from my sempai who got told from Chiba sensei, but wringing the the towel is used by smaller kids who don't have the arm strength to tenouchi properly. I can't really explain how to do tenouchi myself, but you should at least look at the other technique of tenouchi.

As far as I know, you grip shinai loosely (with ring and pinky finger) and hten as you cut, grip tightly. There's a good thread on tenouchi if you look on the search function. And I was also told to cut to chin, but tenouchi at the top of the head. Is that right or wrong?

[kendo_bum]

This was what Chiba Sensei said about tenouchi and towel... Go to the part where it says: "Myth: tenouchi is like wringing a wet towel." WRONG!

http://nintai.blogspot.com/2008/08/chiba-sensei.html

[atgm]

This was what Chiba Sensei said about tenouchi and towel...

Thanks for the link! It was a really interesting read.

[Raindrop]

Can someone help me if I'm wrong? What I learned (I never learned the wringing the towel btw) is that you sorta squeeze your hands a tiny fraction before the impact, so that as soon as your shinai touches the target you relax again which makes the shinai bounce back properly by itself. (I'm working on this, can't do it properly yet). I actually learned the same thing in Karate, that the tension moment is very brief. Sort of an explosion but then packed into a really short moment, and very controlled.

At least that's how I interpreted what I was being told ^_^; It would explain why the towel thing doesn't make sense (at least for adults then).

[Kagerou]

This was what Chiba Sensei said about tenouchi and towel... Go to the part where it says: "Myth: tenouchi is like wringing a wet towel." WRONG!

http://nintai.blogspot.com/2008/08/chiba-sensei.html

I like to think of it more like squeezing a cats tail :laugh:

You just have to think about how much pressure you can apply to the little bugger to make it scream but not claw your eyes out....do that and you'll have perfect tenokitteh

[pgsmith]

Hey y'all,
As usual, I gotta throw my two cent's worth in ...
My personal opinion is that the "wringing a tea towel" idea is a crossover from other sword arts, and doesn't apply to kendo.
The late Nakamura Taisaburo sensei of Toyama ryu, Nakamura ryu, Zen Nihon Battodo Renmei, International Battodo Federation, and various other organizations :) used to teach both tenouchi (proper grip) and chakin shibori (wringing a tea towel). Tenouchi was explained as the proper grip on the tsuka. Chakin shibori is the act of bringing the wrists toward each other to keep your hasuji (blade angle relative to sword movement) correct as you cut through the target. Chakin shibori is used to offset the body's tendency to keep your wrists and arms in the most comfortable position rather than properly aligned. It also helps to stop the momentum on a heavy sword.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think it does, Paul. Or at least, it works for me as I understand it, which may be different to your understanding. I think of it as more of a progression towards the final contact. Raise relaxed, cut forward relaxed and then about 2/3 of the way through the total motion start to introduce some tension, elbows moving from open to closed, arms straightening out. As the elbows close and the arms straighten, naturally your grip is going to tighten up, think of the tightening moving from elbows to fingers, and then finally squeezing with the hands. In kendo, this produces an accelerating tip that stops with a good "pop" on the target.

As always with this sort of stuff, much easier if I demonstrate it rather than just explain. Tyler, this is something that comes with a lot of practice. Although we explain it early, we don't expect people to really get it until they have a good bit of experience, and it's something that keeps getting better. Miyaoka-sensei's action on this is better than mine, as he's been practicing it about 20 years longer than me.

[Charles Lockhar]

This was what Chiba Sensei said about tenouchi and towel... Go to the part where it says: "Myth: tenouchi is like wringing a wet towel." WRONG!

http://nintai.blogspot.com/2008/08/chiba-sensei.html


How accurate was the translation of what Chiba sensei was saying? I'm not questioning the accuracy, I'm just asking.

-Charles

[JByrd]

As the elbows close and the arms straighten, naturally your grip is going to tighten up, think of the tightening moving from elbows to fingers, and then finally squeezing with the hands.

Right. As the elbows straighten, the angle between the forearms and sword narrows, so the wrists have to twist slightly to compensate, and allow the correct grip (and correct hasuji) to be maintained.

I was enlightened by the experience of chopping wood with an axe that didn't have a normal oval-shaped handle. Instead, a round iron pipe had been welded to the axe head. Because of the round handle, I lost all sense of the orientation of the axe head when I swung it up overhead. The slightest twist as I swung meant that I couldn't bring the edge down on the log properly. It really hurt to miss, the shock of a bad strike went right through that iron pipe into my hands! In a moment of insight I started using the same kind of tenouchi/shibori I learned in Kendo, and I was able to make every strike correctly. Nobody else could use that axe worth a damn. :)

[Curtis]

If you have a proper grip your wrists twist in naturally when you tighten your little fingers. No need for excess or exaggerated twisting.

[Sasayaki]

You know what I really love, I love how some of you describe tenouchi cause I can see it exactly how you describe. I really think Kendo World Forums should have a media thread showing how you do your tenouchi in a video uploaded to youtube or something. That would be a wonderful resource to go back to and watch some of you who have 15+ experience.

:)

Just a thought

[sirius1906]

Anybody plays ping pong here? Although it's a one handed grip, I think the concept is similar. Tighten the grip at contactloose grip pre and post contact with the ball. Just a thought.

[pgsmith]

I think it does, Paul. Or at least, it works for me as I understand it, which may be different to your understanding. I think of it as more of a progression towards the final contact. Raise relaxed, cut forward relaxed and then about 2/3 of the way through the total motion start to introduce some tension, elbows moving from open to closed, arms straightening out. As the elbows close and the arms straighten, naturally your grip is going to tighten up, think of the tightening moving from elbows to fingers, and then finally squeezing with the hands. In kendo, this produces an accelerating tip that stops with a good "pop" on the target.
Wow, well put Neil. I can picture exactly what you're saying, and I didn't realize that you guys were doing the whole elbows closed thing. Excellent way of describing it by the way. We do it exactly the same way except that we do not relax the grip through the cut. The grip continues to tighten until the sword stops on the other side of the target, which results in a more pronounced wringing motion.

Ha, I learned something new today! :D

[Maradiondo]

Kendo is based on natural movements that we somehow tend to "Forget". Tightening the grip of anything in your hand as it is about to strike another object is your body’s natural way of bracing for the impact. The trick is learning to consciously do it so that you may develop an awareness of said moment. This awareness will make you better understand the strike and you will be able to carry out the rest of the motion in a fluid manner. It will also make you faster in your recovery time since as you learn to control your awareness of the moment you will be able to consciously prepare your next move.

[Davey]

I really appreciate your input everyone. It was just something I kept hearing or reading and couldn't find alot of reference.

[xvikingx]

Anybody plays ping pong here?
I've played beer-pong a couple of times. Does that count?

[Kagerou]

I've played beer-pong a couple of times. Does that count?

Yes but you have to maintain that same level of technical proficiency throughout the game :laugh:

[yoda-waza]

I've played beer-pong a couple of times. Does that count?
That depends on the quantity of beer imbibed and how far away the nearest restroom was. I've heard tenouchi comes in "handy" in suppressing the urge to pee. :laugh: