who is yowai?

[litige]

I just wanted to know who is this guy...
i've read a lot of his posts and....it's always the same thing.
Stupid bla-blas and sarcasm incrusted i-think-i'm-funny phrases.
What's up with this guy?

[Bayushi]

I just wanted to know who is this guy...
i've read a lot of his posts and....it's always the same thing.
Stupid bla-blas and sarcasm incrusted i-think-i'm-funny phrases.
What's up with this guy?


yeah ive noticed the same thing...in 4 days ( only just joined) all ive seen him do is ridicule new or inexperienced people and critisize everything with what he obviously feels are "funny" comments

i personally haven't got time for people like that..

I can get the same treatment elsewhere if I have a need to be ridiculed.

[Katazz]

Some of his comments are pretty funny though...

[Kaoru]

Some of his comments are pretty funny though...

Yeah, I agree. Anyway, to answer your question Litige, he probably does it to get attention, or he's bored, or... who knows? I think he doesn't realise some of his comments aren't nice. He doesn't think first before he posts. If he does, well... :ermm:

Kaoru

["Rojindo"]

As a new person, I myself have encountered these posts and was thus caused to ask myself...

... where are all the moderators?:ninja:

A member who will not reveal anything about themselves is one thing, some of us just don't like the exposure... fine... but to hide behind anonimity only to spew self important remarks is really tiresome.




But diz "whining quitter" doez seemz to bez givin'z de Ali G. somethingz solidz to workz wid (z'truth MON). :chinese:

[Shiro]

The only thing I have to say about it is "GO, ALI G, GO!!!" :D

Learn da quitta a lesson ;)

["Rojindo"]

Ah yes... "QUITTA" ... thats much better. Thank you, Shiro.

I love it! QUITTAAAHHHHHH!

Might make a nice Kiyai.

:evil:

[Shiro]

Ah yes... "QUITTA" ... thats much better. Thank you, Shiro.

I love it! QUITTAAAHHHHHH!

Might make a nice Kiyai.

:evil:

he he ;)

And indeed, it would be a nice kiai :) let's post it every time Yowai gets started :D

[Alex]

Where are all the moderators? Busy trying to make a magazine or two!!

We have been deleting quite a few of Yowai's offensive posts. Maybe 'Yowai' (weak) is an indication of his humour, social skills, or general likeability. Either way, he is very close to being banned altogether.

We get sick of dorks ruining it for everybody else! :dead:

[Fantasia]

Some of his comments are pretty funny though...

True, but it's a sign of a very weak sense of humor when the only way you can be funny is by being mean, cruel, or vicious.

I think people watch too many sitcoms. How else do we learn how to be funny than by watching other peopel who are funny (or are supposed to be)

for example, watch "EVerybody Loves Raymond" sometime. EVERY SINGLE joke is a cruel barb aimed at denigrating somebody else. It's pathetic.

[Nanbanjin]

Where are all the moderators? Busy trying to make a magazine or two!!

We have been deleting quite a few of Yowai's offensive posts. Maybe 'Yowai' (weak) is an indication of his humour, social skills, or general likeability. Either way, he is very close to being banned altogether.

We get sick of dorks ruining it for everybody else! :dead:
Alex,

Thank you for providing us all with this great forum.
I have only discovered your forum recently and have already made over 100 posts.
(BTW, how many posts to you need to get a custom avatar???)

I have been participating in the Ichinikai forum for a few years now. I am sure you know about Ichinikai. People on Ichinikai are generally polite and you rarely come across posts from people who do not seem to have a very genuine interest in kendo.

I was completely unprepared for the amount of abuse and provocation that occurs on this forum. I made the mistake of assuming that people like Yowai were actually serious, and have wasted a good deal of my time arguing with them. I now know better and choose to ignore any such postings.

Stilll, I find being called a "dickhead" and an "idiot" very offensive, especially when I am doing my best to argue a point rationally.

While I have to admit I have found some of Yowai's comments amusing, I for one would not shed a tear if he was banned for good.

Yours,

Peter Strauss
Kendo 4th Dan
Kenshinkai Dojo
Queensland, Australia

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well, we have the odd troll and idiot here but overall I'd say the signal-noise ratio is extremely high compared to other forums. I second the thanks to Alex and Hamish for providing a place for us kendo junkies to dodge work at.

[LNGUYEN]

No body need to argue or go after Yowai. It is Ali G job and I see he is doing it quite well. Go Ali G Go

[Nanbanjin]

Well, we have the odd troll and idiot here but overall I'd say the signal-noise ratio is extremely high compared to other forums. I second the thanks to Alex and Hamish for providing a place for us kendo junkies to dodge work at.
Fair enough.
I am not an expert at this forum thing. I guess I just need to ignore the noise.
I suppose banning people is not that easy anyway. They can always come back with another account.
I am annoyed with myself that I spent so much time last Synday arguing with a mug though.

[Yowai]

Fair enough.
I am not an expert at this forum thing. I guess I just need to ignore the noise.
I suppose banning people is not that easy anyway. They can always come back with another account.
I am annoyed with myself that I spent so much time last Synday arguing with a mug though.

That's because you're incable of reasoning. Keep holding on to your stubborn opinions! You will make an excellent Conservative.

[Shiro]

Indeed, banning Yowai wouldn't help, at least now we all know his name.

[Yowai]

Indeed, banning Yowai wouldn't help, at least now we all know his name.

Don't bother with me. I will be gone near the start of next year. I'm finally going back home!

Waaa waaa. "Trolls" are making me think! I don't like it; they are challenging my conservative views! People can't challenge Kendo tradition! Don't you people realize that the comparably high incidence of the so called "troll" activity on this vbb is a sign of a lack of liberalism in this vbb?

[litige]

People can't challenge Kendo tradition!

are you saying that because you're a master?

[Yowai]

are you saying that because you're a master?

Who's saying what? Do we really need [LITERAL DEVICE] tags?

[litige]

yes we do (aaa for the 10 words or more)

[Shiro]

Don't bother with me. I will be gone near the start of next year. I'm finally going back home!

Waaa waaa. "Trolls" are making me think! I don't like it; they are challenging my conservative views! People can't challenge Kendo tradition! Don't you people realize that the comparably high incidence of the so called "troll" activity on this vbb is a sign of a lack of liberalism in this vbb?

Man, I don't care wether you're on this forum or not, but could you at least try to be constructive?

[Yowai]

Man, I don't care wether you're on this forum or not, but could you at least try to be constructive?

Please elaborate. I am constructive unless the subject is too silly to be an argument.

[ALI G]

are you saying that because you're a master?

Hez a mazta allrightz...a 'maztabetta' that iz......

[ALI G]

Don't bother with me. I will be gone near the start of next year. I'm finally going back home!

Goingz back homez huh? Lemme guezz.....Youz iz goinz backz 2.....


'LUZERVILLE'
Population - Youz

[Nanbanjin]

Don't bother with me. I will be gone near the start of next year. I'm finally going back home!

Waaa waaa. "Trolls" are making me think! I don't like it; they are challenging my conservative views! People can't challenge Kendo tradition! Don't you people realize that the comparably high incidence of the so called "troll" activity on this vbb is a sign of a lack of liberalism in this vbb?
I think you are very intelligent. I really mean that.
You just lack social skills.
Where is home by the way? Don't they have computers there?

[Yowai]

Don't you think accusing me of lacking social skill at the same time as giving me a compliment, reflects negatively on your social skill as well?

Japan. I plan to be very busy. I might even pick up my bogu from my folk's home.

[Koushinkuma]

*BS*

Never met a Japanese this impolite, and heck, I'm married to one. :D

[Rawoo]

feel all that pride and egocentricity in Yowai
Yowai u r a kid, foolish and naive even some kids know when to stop.
If u r a kendo player of a high grade then maybe it's time to start act like one
may god has mercy on ur soul buddy. :down:

[Nanbanjin]

Don't you think accusing me of lacking social skill at the same time as giving me a compliment, reflects negatively on your social skill as well?

Japan. I plan to be very busy. I might even pick up my bogu from my folk's home.
I haven't had too many complaints. The Japanese girl I share a house with tells me I smell, but I think that's more of a personal hygene issue (and prissiness on her part).

You are certainly interesting anyway. Your English is probably better than mine and your Japanese certainly would be. You could contribute a lot to this forum in a constructive way, but you prefer to mock people who have an interest in kendo, but who have no where near the access to resources that you have, given your obvious language skills and knowledge of Japanese and Western (American?) culture.

Are you trying something to achieve something concrete in your posts? What is it that makes you so angry?

I was wondering what your background in kendo is. How long have you trained and where? What grade are you?
Also, I am interested in how your English got so good if you are a native Japanese. Were you raised in the States? Are you just intelligent as I suggested in my previous post?
I have been studying Japanese for fourteen years and don't mind admitting that I am jealous. You would probably kick my arse in kendo as well.

[ALI G]

Don't you think accusing me of lacking social skill at the same time as giving me a compliment, reflects negatively on your social skill as well?

OKz....I wontz givez youz a complimentz.....

You lackz social skillz.

[Yowai]

After highschool and being a ronin for a short period, I decided against being a normal Japanese. I got a bachelor's in Canada, and quickly retreated back home. My interest in Kendo was the work of a high school friend who dragged me to dojos and exams after the typical quitting stage at the end high school. I visited overseas with bogu once, and I didn't enjoy the experience too much. When I flew back the second time for unknowingly the long haul, I didn't bring bogu. Several years later, here I am. 4th dan devoted kendoist meet 3rd dan undevoted slacker. Can I beat you? Probally in the past, but not anymore.
That is as far I am willing to elaborate.

I don't like to concur. Agreeing with people on a discussion forum does not lead to a worthwhile discussion. Prejudice creeps into common sense. That is why I join forums where I face heavy opposition. I'm not angry. I am having fun.

Koushinkuma: Japonophile! Aaaaah!

[Kaoru]

Hi everybody,

I've been reading this thread, and I am surprised by how this is turning out. I think it is cool that intead of bashing Yowai, that everybody is trying to get to know him instead. It is so much nicer to all be friends!

Yeah, Yowai sounds intelligent.


I don't like to concur. Agreeing with people on a discussion forum does not lead to a worthwhile discussion. Prejudice creeps into common sense. That is why I join forums where I face heavy opposition. I'm not angry. I am having fun.

Yowai, you have a point there. As long as you don't go out of your way to mock a person, this is cool. What I love, is a good discussion with different opinions, and you're right... if people all agree, the discussion goes nowhere.

That's a shame you didn't have a good experience in Kendo overseas. Well, maybe you didn't find the right place to enjoy yourself. Each place is different. I'm glad you aren't angry, haha! Better to have fun...

Oh, somebody said that we all now know his name... Where? I didn't see it anywhere. But, that's not our business anyhow... :)

Kaoru

[Koushinkuma]

Actually Yowai, I had no idea my wife was Japanese when I met her in graduate school. I just thought she was beautiful. Being from New Hampshire, I hadn't been exposed to that many people that didn't look so much like me. So instead of an Asian Fetishist or Japanophile, I like to think of myself as a lover of beautiful women. Can you sympathize? :D

[Nanbanjin]

After highschool and being a ronin for a short period, I decided against being a normal Japanese. I got a bachelor's in Canada, and quickly retreated back home. My interest in Kendo was the work of a high school friend who dragged me to dojos and exams after the typical quitting stage at the end high school. I visited overseas with bogu once, and I didn't enjoy the experience too much. When I flew back the second time for unknowingly the long haul, I didn't bring bogu. Several years later, here I am. 4th dan devoted kendoist meet 3rd dan undevoted slacker. Can I beat you? Probally in the past, but not anymore.
That is as far I am willing to elaborate.

I don't like to concur. Agreeing with people on a discussion forum does not lead to a worthwhile discussion. Prejudice creeps into common sense. That is why I join forums where I face heavy opposition. I'm not angry. I am having fun.

Koushinkuma: Japonophile! Aaaaah!
Arguing for argument's sake is as pointless as agreeing for agreement's sake.
Also, prejudice is as likely to creep into arguments as agreements, so I don't think your justification is valid here. Having fun is a more compelling argument. I don't see that much fun in all of your posts, but "each to his own" as my grandmother used to say.

I am sorry you didn't enjoy the kendo you played overseas. Third dan can be a tricky grade to be when you travel overseas. A Japanese person who has third dan might not get all the respect they deserve outside of Japan. Fourth dans seem to get treated with a lot more respect for some reason.

I might be a fourth dan, but I find it hard to shake the feeling that what I play is "something approximating kendo" rather than kendo. I think back to the way the kids played kendo at the high school I went to in Japan, and I can't reconcile the difference between that and what I do now. I guess the reason I train now is so I can bridge this gap.

Because of the above I am a little careful to tell Japanese people "how to play" kendo. I speak Japanese and people tell me I do it well, but I don't think I would never try to tell a Japanese person how to speak Japanese, not even a child. I guess my attitude to kendo is similar. I will always have too much to learn.

Anyway, I hope you get back into kendo. One of the things I like about kendo is that it is relatively easy to get back into after a long absence. I have had gaps in training extending to years but have always found people welcoming when I have had the urge for some more kendo. I train about three times a week now so I guess that makes me fairly dedicated at the moment at least. There are many interesting and worthwhile things in life besides kendo so I don't think that not training for a while makes you a "slacker".

By the way, if marrying a Japanese person makes you a Japanophile, and you don't like Japanophiles, you might find it hard to find a wife you are happy being with.

I might pick up on some of your posts in the future. I don't think I would be able to do as good a job as Ali G so I might leave the work up to him.

Thanks for your reply anyway!

[Neil Gendzwill]

I might be a fourth dan, but I find it hard to shake the feeling that what I play is "something approximating kendo" rather than kendo. I think back to the way the kids played kendo at the high school I went to in Japan, and I can't reconcile the difference between that and what I do now. I guess the reason I train now is so I can bridge this gap.

Really? Why on earth would you want to play like a Japanese high school student? For one thing, that style isn't suited to an adult physique and it's a really good way to get injured as an adult. For another, it's a style that's not all that interesting in the long run.

[Nanbanjin]

To Yowai,

Before you accuse me of telling you how to speak Japanese over the zekken issue, that was more a case of balancing your opinion against the opinions of other Japanese people I know. I respect your arguments as a native Japanese speaker. Anyway, my new katakana/romaji zekken is in the pipeline.

[Nanbanjin]

Really? Why on earth would you want to play like a Japanese high school student? For one thing, that style isn't suited to an adult physique and it's a really good way to get injured as an adult. For another, it's a style that's not all that interesting in the long run.
Just because Wayne Rooney was only sixteen when he joined Everton I don't think that adult soccer players wouldn't have a lot to learn from his game.

A lot of high school students play mature kendo. I guess you are referring to high school kendo as kendo that relies on speed and repetitive techniques rather than reading the opponent. Not all high school students play like that.
I found the skill level of high school students in Japan to be very high, and it is the skill that I am interested in, not the style of play.

There is an eight year old Japanese kid at my current dojo who plays much more natural kendo than I do. I would be a fool to think I don't have anything to learn from him just because he is a child.

[Yowai]

Actually Yowai, I had no idea my wife was Japanese when I met her in graduate school. I just thought she was beautiful. Being from New Hampshire, I hadn't been exposed to that many people that didn't look so much like me. So instead of an Asian Fetishist or Japanophile, I like to think of myself as a lover of beautiful women. Can you sympathize? :D

I wasn't referring to your marriage. I was referring to your statement that I can't be Japanese because I am too rude. That statement would imply that you believe Japanese people are more polite than other nationalities which signals a distorted view of reality.

Cue Confound? Bah; her ban is a real misfortune.

[Neil Gendzwill]

There is an eight year old Japanese kid at my current dojo who plays much more natural kendo than I do. I would be a fool to think I don't have anything to learn from him just because he is a child.
You probably don't have much to learn from him. There's certain things he can do that you just can't and that natural movement is one of them. There's a book out entitled something like "Why Michael Jordan Can't Hit". IIRC MJ hit about .225 in semi-pro ball, which is pretty darn good, but not anywhere near what would have been possible had he started young. The theory is that when you're a kid and learning physical activities, you are actually building neural pathways to support those activities. After 18, it's just a learned process. You can be good, but never as good as if you started as a child. It's like a specialty-built piece of hardware vs a general purpose computer with programming. Us late starters can get not bad, but we'll always be missing a certain something in the grace and precision with which we can move.

I must confess I've never played with top high school players, just a number of guys who used to play high school and college. Every single one of them hit light, ducked a lot and was completely shocked when my sensei refused to twitch a flag for any of their "points". Many of them were returning to kendo after a few years absence, and my sensei had the job of trying to switch their kendo to adult kendo. That sort of progression from kids kendo through to adult kendo normally occurs as they move through the college program. For those of us in North America starting late, it's the style we learn right away.

[Kaoru]

Hi Neil,

What do you mean by kids Kendo and adult Kendo? What's the difference? What do the kids do, and what do the adults do?

Domo arigato.

Kaoru

[Neil Gendzwill]

This is the way I understand kendoka are developed. Colin please correct me here if I have my facts wrong.

In Japan, most people start as kids, early in grade school, sometimes before. They practice hard and learn basics but the instruction (as I understand it) is not too terribly focussed on fine details, more on enthusiasm, energy, competition. As they move into high school, the emphasis is strongly on winning competitions. They rely a lot on speed and reflexes, jump in from far distances, duck and bob to avoid points, and tap their way to victory. If they continue on into college, at that stage the coaches take the athletic base and ring smarts they've built in high school, and start to fix their kendo. They need to make it straight and more refined, moving more towards the sort of kendo that most of us outside of Japan learn from the start. You can't jump in from outside and tag the kote of a good mature player - he is centred, ready and will see it coming a mile away, no matter how fast. At this stage they need to change their game and understand more mental things. Of course in college their is still a lot of athleticism and you still need that speed. After college things move more towards the ideals.

If you stop at any point along the way, your kendo is incomplete. This is where we see some of them - they've played a lot in high school, quit for various reasons (no time, not fun anymore are two most common) and then are in Canada and want to play recreationally. Once they shake the rust off, they're very very quick, lots of ring sense, move well and take your kote in a heartbeat - but it's "nanken", not related to the real sword, not mature kendo. It's also the sort of style that will result in injuries in older people, particularily achilles tendon tears. I've seen that first hand, and it ain't pretty.

Now if Nanbanjin has seen high school players who play the way his path is headed, ie what he needs to pass godan, I'd like to hear it. I've seen a couple of older teens in Canada that played that way but they came through a different system.

[Yowai]

...hit light, ducked a lot ...

Welcome to competitive Kendo. I can't comment on a Japanese college experience, but high school Kendo is just as you described it. Playing "good Kendo" as evaluated by old people is the last thing on a student's mind. "I'd rather win in tournaments in front of my friends."

An opponent with a strong centre is a bother? That would be the sign that the head isn't being bent or bobbed enough. Is that "bad" Kendo? Maybe. Or maybe someone needs to clearly define bad/good/comepetitive/shinsa/old Kendo and pick, with a reason, which one is the "ideal Kendo."

[Nanbanjin]

You probably don't have much to learn from him. There's certain things he can do that you just can't and that natural movement is one of them. There's a book out entitled something like "Why Michael Jordan Can't Hit". IIRC MJ hit about .225 in semi-pro ball, which is pretty darn good, but not anywhere near what would have been possible had he started young. The theory is that when you're a kid and learning physical activities, you are actually building neural pathways to support those activities. After 18, it's just a learned process. You can be good, but never as good as if you started as a child. It's like a specialty-built piece of hardware vs a general purpose computer with programming. Us late starters can get not bad, but we'll always be missing a certain something in the grace and precision with which we can move.

I must confess I've never played with top high school players, just a number of guys who used to play high school and college. Every single one of them hit light, ducked a lot and was completely shocked when my sensei refused to twitch a flag for any of their "points". Many of them were returning to kendo after a few years absence, and my sensei had the job of trying to switch their kendo to adult kendo. That sort of progression from kids kendo through to adult kendo normally occurs as they move through the college program. For those of us in North America starting late, it's the style we learn right away.
I sort of understand your argument about physical development, but I don't see how it relates to Micheal Jordan. Michael Jordan played baseball, not basketball in his childhood. He played pitcher and shortstop (whatever that is) and I assume his training would have included a fair bit of batting practice. He was named 'Mr. Baseball' for North Carolina in 1975.
MJ only started playing basketball seriously in senior hear at high school.
If only he had started basketball at an earlier age, he might have been even better than the best player of all time!
Michael was well into his thirties when he took up baseball, so don't you think it is stretching things a little to suggest with any confidence that the reason he didn't have the best batting average in the league was because of the way his neural pathways developed when he was a child?
Would you use the same argument if you but MJ in kendo armour now at age 40 and he hadn't become world champion in five years?
Maybe he just had the wrong physique. I don't know that much about baseball, but good batsmen in cricket are not always terribly tall. Don Bradman was the best batsman of all time and he was only about 173cm tall. Maybe he was just too old and his body wasn't up to it. An ageing body is something I can relate to more readily than talk of neural pathways etc.
Having started kendo at sixteen, does that mean I can be as good at kendo as Michael Jordan was at basketball?

Arguments like this always sound a little like prejudice dressed up with science to me. I can see how they would be popular with people who started sport at an early age and want to exclude late starters, and also people who were never really good at any sport but like to think back and say "if only my dad had made me play golf at the right age I would have been able to play like Tiger Woods".
For me, I like to be inspired by what grabs my attention. Theories that try to tell me that I can't do something I want to do because I am too old, young, big, small, western etc. can stay on the bookshelf as far as I am concerned. If I am in danger of hurting myself I am happy to be my own guinea pig. If you are right and I am held back because of my neural pathways or whatever, I won't die wondering.

Got to go and visit my cousin in hospital. Will probably add some more about "High School Kendo" later.

[Nanbanjin]

Come to think of my first instructor only started kendo at university. That would make him eighteen when he started. He wasn't missing anything when it came to "poise and grace" as far as I could tell.

The next time a high school student comes to train with you, try saying to yourself "here is a person who might have trained six days a week for the last ten years. Maybe they know something about playing kendo that I don't know and I might have something to learn from them."
The kendo of anybody from Japan who is third dan or less often seems to be arbitrarily dismissed outside of Japan. Just because a Japanese instructor has said that there is a difference between high school kendo and "mature" kendo this is used as some kind of justification for what I personally feel to be blatant rudeness.

I don't buy the argument that there is any major fault with high school kendo. I think that high school students play quick kendo with light techniques is because they are skilfull enough to be able to. I am inclined to believe that the reasons we in the west don't play like that is because kendo here tends to attract people who are not terribly well coordinated. So we go on and on about how light cuts wouldn't be effective in "real battle" and other stomach turning nonsense. We read "The book of five rings" and "Hagakure" and like to think that this makes our kendo better than that of someone who hasn't. We learn nito and jodan and think that this makes up for the fact that our kendo is basically pretty shoddy.
There are of course exceptions. Not all Japanese have great kendo and not all non Japanese people suck.

Given all this I don't mind training outside of Japan. I guess I am happy as long as somebody is kind enough to stand in front of me and provide a target.

I don't give grading much thought. I haven't rushed to where I am now and I have a few years at my current grade to wait. I probably wont think about grading until about a week before the event, when I suddenly realise I have to relearn all the kata I have forgotten over the past three of four years since the last time. If I never make godan it I wont lose too much sleep.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Come to think of my first instructor only started kendo at university. That would make him eighteen when he started. He wasn't missing anything when it came to "poise and grace" as far as I could tell.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule. However my experience has been that those who start in childhood have an advantage over those who start in adulthood. If they are Japanese, they also have the advantage of a well-ingrained development system. Asking why Japanese people are better at kendo than everyone else is like asking why Canadians are better at hockey - it comes down to systematic development from an early age, finding the best talent in a wide pool and nurturing it early.


The kendo of anybody from Japan who is third dan or less often seems to be arbitrarily dismissed outside of Japan.
I don't know about dismissed, necessarily. It's an important stage in the development of their kendo and clearly the Japanese have a lot of success in promoting that style of play at that point in the career. However when I see my instructor who is in his early 50s routinely pick apart such people, you begin to suspect that there is more to this than just fast waza. Which is why I'm still playing at 42 - I can still improve, despite my deteriorating body.


So we go on and on about how light cuts wouldn't be effective in "real battle" and other stomach turning nonsense.
Well, I get my opinions on these matters from my instructors, who are mostly Japanese-born and trained (or nisei and trained under Japanese instructors). Kendo in Canada, unlike Australia and some other countries, is strongly Japanese-influenced and controlled. My sensei isn't looking for a bludgeoning cut, he's looking for a cut that would cut. If you as the recipient don't feel anything, the cut is not enough. Furthermore, if you have made an opening for yourself, you will have time to cut correctly. OTOH if the only point you ever make is dekote-duck-run, perhaps it's time to examine why you can't hit men. If kendo is only high-speed tag, it gets boring pretty quickly I think.


If I never make godan it I wont lose too much sleep.
Fair enough, but consider this: the upcoming rank is a target for you, a goal in your training, giving you certain things to work towards. It makes me think, "I want to be able to do this" or "I want my kamae to look like this" and try to do those things in my everyday training. Helps you avoid being stagnant. Helps your students, too because the higher you get the more those thoughts tend towards "I want my basics to be perfect".

[Nanbanjin]

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. However my experience has been that those who start in childhood have an advantage over those who start in adulthood. If they are Japanese, they also have the advantage of a well-ingrained development system. Asking why Japanese people are better at kendo than everyone else is like asking why Canadians are better at hockey - it comes down to systematic development from an early age, finding the best talent in a wide pool and nurturing it early.

That's pretty well common sense. But I don't use this as an excuse for saying "I've got nothing to learn from this person because they are just a natural". That type of attitude is for losers.



I don't know about dismissed, necessarily. It's an important stage in the development of their kendo and clearly the Japanese have a lot of success in promoting that style of play at that point in the career. However when I see my instructor who is in his early 50s routinely pick apart such people, you begin to suspect that there is more to this than just fast waza. Which is why I'm still playing at 42 - I can still improve, despite my deteriorating body.

It is probably safe to say that the person who is being picked apart by a fifty year old has a brain. They can probably work out themselves that their kendo needs to develop without havng it forced down their throat. Most high school kendo players play, as Yowai noted, to win competitions in front of their friends. However most of them will have been told on countless occasions when they were training in Japan that kendo is not all about winning competitions.
As you have said the kendo that these kids play is a part of their development. Why not respect this kendo for what it is and let it develop naturally? What I dislike is terms like "High school kendo is not real kendo" or "you play high school kendo". This is far too general to be constructive, and often sounds to me like a way of knocking them down. These kids are growing and their kendo will grow if allowed.


...Kendo in Canada, unlike Australia and some other countries, is strongly Japanese-influenced and controlled....

Please try to be more explicit when you want to say that you think that kendo in Canada is better than in other countries. That is what you are trying to say here right?

Japanese instructors often like putting high school kids in their place too. Some of them are a little rude about this, others are constructive. I never want to act in a way that is rude just to copy a Japanese person, whatever grade they might be.


Fair enough, but consider this: the upcoming rank is a target for you, a goal in your training, giving you certain things to work towards. It makes me think, "I want to be able to do this" or "I want my kamae to look like this" and try to do those things in my everyday training. Helps you avoid being stagnant. Helps your students, too because the higher you get the more those thoughts tend towards "I want my basics to be perfect".

If I didn't have concrete goals that I felt I was slowly achieving I wouldn't enjoy kendo, and then I would stop training. I am always rethinking my goals and finding new things to work on. For me this makes kendo more than just mindless exercise, or playing Jedi Knights or Samurais and Ninjas. I think I am fairly honest about my kendo, and if that doesn't carry me through then so be it.

By the way, I made two posts last night but I think you only read the second.

[Neil Gendzwill]

That's pretty well common sense. But I don't use this as an excuse for saying "I've got nothing to learn from this person because they are just a natural". That type of attitude is for losers.
True, and if I've implied that there's absolutely nothing to learn from high school kendo players, I'm sorry. For one thing you can test your centred old-guy kamae against their tricky waza, and if it doesn't hold up figure out why. After all if it's supposed to be better you ought to be able to defend against the kids, ne?


Please try to be more explicit when you want to say that you think that kendo in Canada is better than in other countries. That is what you are trying to say here right?
Nope, that was a response to your assertion that non-Japanese people have certain attitudes towards high school kendo, as in "I can't do it, therefore it's bad". I know what's bad and good about the high schoolers, and I know why what I'm doing and learning is better for me. And as I've said, all my opinions on this and other matters kendo is based on my instruction by Japanese instructors.


By the way, I made two posts last night but I think you only read the second.
Didn't bother addressing the first, it was basically a dismissal of my reference. I didn't say that because you're disadvantaged starting older you should quit, just that it is interesting to note that there is some theory out there as to why you are disadvantaged. You can start late and be stubborn and do not so badly, too.

[Nanbanjin]

Didn't bother addressing the first, it was basically a dismissal of my reference.....
I was hoping for an elaboration of your reference. I thought that you might have something interesting to say. Most interestingly, how does it relate to Michael Jordan? If you are going to introduce a theory at least try to back it up a little.


I didn't say that because you're disadvantaged starting older you should quit

Where did I suggest that you said this?

[Neil Gendzwill]

I was hoping for an elaboration of your reference. I thought that you might have something interesting to say. Most interestingly, how does it relate to Michael Jordan? If you are going to introduce a theory at least try to back it up a little.
I must sheepishly admit to not having read the book, only the paraphrased theory of it. I think the theory holds some water though: I think there's a definite difference in people's kendo after X years of practice if you compare them when X started at say, 10 to when X started at 20. Admittedly I don't have a huge sample to back that up, so I'm perfectly willing to let that argument lie.


Where did I suggest that you said this?
Right around when you said this: Theories that try to tell me that I can't do something I want to do because I am too old, young, big, small, western etc. can stay on the bookshelf as far as I am concerned. If I am in danger of hurting myself I am happy to be my own guinea pig. If you are right and I am held back because of my neural pathways or whatever, I won't die wondering.

Although it's interesting that you mention "western" in that list - I have had one Japanese person ask me directly whether I thought that Japanese people were naturally better than western people at kendo. I simply stated my comparison to hockey - it's the development environment.

This has been an interesting discussion. I think if we were talking the same topics over beers we'd agree much more than we seem to in print. If I don't refute you point by point, either take it as an agreement or as something that's made me think sufficiently to not counter immediately.

[Nanbanjin]

Right around when you said this: Theories that try to tell me that I can't do something I want to do because I am too old, young, big, small, western etc. can stay on the bookshelf as far as I am concerned. If I am in danger of hurting myself I am happy to be my own guinea pig. If you are right and I am held back because of my neural pathways or whatever, I won't die wondering.

I thought that might be the part you meant. By this I meant "theories that tell me that I will never be able to play with 'poise and grace'". I don't see the benefit of this type of theory. It might be true, but I guess I am just too "stubborn" to admit it. I wasn't referring to quitting kendo.



I must sheepishly admit to not having read the book....
I was probably being a little picky. I was genuinly interested though.
It is obvious that people who start sport earlier are usually better and that kids learn with their bodies and adults try to learn with their minds. I just don't like theories that look for answers in tricky stuff like neural development etc. It seems obvious to me that my own body is a lot less supple than when I was a kid. My body just wont let me do what it used to do. All the more reason to work on basics. I also have less energy and spare time. I find that compelling enough a reason as to why I don't learn things as quickly as when I was a kid.



...it's interesting that you mention "western" in that list....

I included "western" quite deliberately. I am a little undecided in regards to this argument. The evidence certainly seems to be in favour of Japanese, because there are millions of good Japanese players and not many good western players.
I have certainly never met a western person I honestly consider to have kendo that can match a good Japanese person. But like you said the development environment is different. The demographic of people playing kendo in Japan is also a lot different to that outside Japan. If our police force had entire devisions devoted to playing kendo it would be interesting to see how many good players would emerge.
I have at least one Australian friend that doesn't play kendo but who I consider to be a genius when it comes to sport in general. I can't help but think "what if someone like that played kendo". Unfortunately for kendo people like that are often more than satisfied pursuing their own goals.
My own philosophical/political beliefs steer me well clear of arguments of racial superiority in any respect.


I think if we were talking the same topics over beers we'd agree much more than we seem to in print.

Yeah, you're a hard guy to have a heated argument with!

[Koushinkuma]

Anthropologically speaking, racial issues would be the least significant variable of all, and in fact most biologists would probably argue that there is no "racial" predisposition for certain sports, at least beyond ones which require things like long legs (Kenyans in marathons) or a huge build (Chechnyans in weightlifting). And in any case it's not really about "race" but rather about discrete packages of genes that are heritable through gene pools; that is there is no specific group that we can draw a line around and say, that's a "race."
So my guess is that it is the environment in this case that is everything...doing kendo when you are 4 (or any sport for that matter) you would probably acquire a much greater aptitude for it because of constant practice and encouragement and as someone said, "neural pathways." It would seem seriously sketchy to think there is a "kendo gene" out there that only Japanese have.

Sorry, when I hear the word "race" it gets me going. The poor lives of grad students... :cross_eye

[Nanbanjin]

Anthropologically speaking, racial issues would be the least significant variable of all, and in fact most biologists would probably argue that there is no "racial" predisposition for certain sports, at least beyond ones which require things like long legs (Kenyans in marathons) or a huge build (Chechnyans in weightlifting). And in any case it's not really about "race" but rather about discrete packages of genes that are heritable through gene pools; that is there is no specific group that we can draw a line around and say, that's a "race."
So my guess is that it is the environment in this case that is everything...doing kendo when you are 4 (or any sport for that matter) you would probably acquire a much greater aptitude for it because of constant practice and encouragement and as someone said, "neural pathways." It would seem seriously sketchy to think there is a "kendo gene" out there that only Japanese have.

Sorry, when I hear the word "race" it gets me going. The poor lives of grad students... :cross_eye
When I was in Japan at high school I was really impressed at the general standard of physical ability of the kids around me. Australians are famous for being good at sport, but I think that we are a little elitist here and pour a lot of resources into top athletes at the expense of the obese couch potatoes that we are apparently breeding.
Kendo is probably the same. If there was money in it we could probably train up some of our elite kiddies and have some really good players.
In Japan there are thousands of kids training kendo to win. Over here there are not even a thousand of us and we are mostly training kendo as a hobby, albeit a serious one.
It is a little bit far fetched to compare these two groups and conclude that there is a gene or something that makes Japanese people better at kendo.
It would be like saying that because there aren't many Australians who speak fluent Japanese this means that we are missing some kind of Japanese language gene.

I am agreeing with you, just incase I haven't made it completely clear.

What was the title of this thread again?

[Yowai]

Neil sidetracked the discussion with his troll post.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Australians are famous for being good at sport
Having spent several months working in Australia (Perth), I have a theory about that - your television sucks mightily. With nothing on the tube and year-round good weather, everyone just gets outside and plays.

[Shazzanzzz]

I'm not trying to put a racial tag on things,but, I read in a sports magazine that categorized the natural athletic potentials of people of different races. It said that people of African heritage usually would have more developed lower body strength and a higher muscle percentage than the other races, caucasians usually have better upper body strenght, and that asians usually have better hand-eye coordination and flexibility.

I kinda think it's a little stereotyping, but, seems like there's some truth in it too.

[Nanbanjin]

Having spent several months working in Australia (Perth), I have a theory about that - your television sucks mightily. With nothing on the tube and year-round good weather, everyone just gets outside and plays.
A good deal of our television is American. Yeah, it sucks!

[Nanbanjin]

I'm not trying to put a racial tag on things,but, I read in a sports magazine that categorized the natural athletic potentials of people of different races. It said that people of African heritage usually would have more developed lower body strength and a higher muscle percentage than the other races, caucasians usually have better upper body strenght, and that asians usually have better hand-eye coordination and flexibility.

I kinda think it's a little stereotyping, but, seems like there's some truth in it too.
I can never see the point of the type of study that you have referred to.
Ten years ago you might have said that because there were no African American tennis players, African American women weren't naturally suited to playing tennis. How would that type of theory sit today?
I have heard of studies in the States back in the fifties or there abouts that found that African Americans were not as smart as white Americans based on the results of IQ testing. These studies conveniently ingnored any socio economic influence on the results. I think the argument was that it was better to educate white Americans because they learn quicker.
Hell, we don't have too many Koori lawyers or doctors in this country, but I reckon it would be kind of hard to find the motivation to study after your culture has been dessimated by two hundred years of European rule.

I have actually met a Japanese person who quoted a theory that the reason that Japanese have difficulty speaking English is because they have shorter tongues. Knowing a few Japanese people that were born in Australia and speak Japanese better than me I can't really see the logic in this argument.

Anyway, dividing people up on the basis of race always makes me nervous. In the case of kendo there are many possible arguments as to why the kendo in Japan is better than in other countries. I will leave race based arguments to Japanese nationalists, Japonophiles and losers.

[Nanbanjin]

sorry, that's decimate not dessimate...

[Yowai]

I have heard of studies in the States back in the fifties or there abouts that found that African Americans were not as smart as white Americans based on the results of IQ testing. These studies conveniently ingnored any socio economic influence on the results.

Socio-economics has no influence in a properly administered IQ test. The most common flaw in administering IQ test is to ignore language barriers.

[LNGUYEN]

Not only Japanese don't speak English well, most of Asian who speak their own languages first speak horrible English. The problem is most of Asian language pronoun through the nose so you usually hear higher pitch and many up and down tone. Meanwhile English is pronoun through the throat and the sound is more monotone. Many westerner come to my country said when they listen to Vietnamese, it is like we are singing instead of speaking.

[Nanbanjin]

Socio-economics has no influence in a properly administered IQ test. The most common flaw in administering IQ test is to ignore language barriers.
A person who isn't able to confidently read the test paper because they have not had sufficient education because of their socio-economic status is at a disadvantage.

I understand your argument, but I think that the problem with IQ tests is that they are not always implemented properly.

I am glad you commented on this because there is something I have been wondering about.
We had this stupid national IQ test on television last year. It was extremely popular and tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of people participated. Then this year they ran the same test and the commercials said "Improve your IQ from last year". Was I right to think that this was a little strange?

[Nanbanjin]

Socio-economics has no influence in a properly administered IQ test. The most common flaw in administering IQ test is to ignore language barriers.
You sound like you might be a defender of IQ tests. Have you had one and did you score highly?

[ALI G]

I can't comment on a Japanese college experience

Yep youz sure cantz...

[Nanbanjin]

Having spent several months working in Australia (Perth), I have a theory about that - your television sucks mightily. With nothing on the tube and year-round good weather, everyone just gets outside and plays.
Actually we mostly have sport on television. Just in case the weather is bad.

[Nanbanjin]

Not only Japanese don't speak English well, most of Asian who speak their own languages first speak horrible English. The problem is most of Asian language pronoun through the nose so you usually hear higher pitch and many up and down tone. Meanwhile English is pronoun through the throat and the sound is more monotone. Many westerner come to my country said when they listen to Vietnamese, it is like we are singing instead of speaking.
Nice point. I believe I have improved my Japanese a lot by playing around with where in the throat/mouth/nose the sounds resonate.
I am not sure that English is really as monotonal as you think. I think its difficult to listen for subtle tonal changes if you are not comfortable physically making the sounds yourself. My pet theory is that listening to language and speaking is tied in with mental imagery.
As far as Japanese people not speaking English well goes, if Yowai's written English is anything to go on I reckon his spoken English wouldn't be all that shabby.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Actually we mostly have sport on television. Just in case the weather is bad.
I used to drag my sorry butt back to the hotel around 10, and the only things that would be on were netball and some horrid soap opera about a fire station. I really enjoyed my stay there, I'd go back to Perth (hopefully without working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day so I could see some of the place).

[Nanbanjin]

.. but I think that the problem with IQ tests is that they are not always implemented properly....
That was pretty well exactly what you said.

[Nanbanjin]

I used to drag my sorry butt back to the hotel around 10, and the only things that would be on were netball and some horrid soap opera about a fire station. I really enjoyed my stay there, I'd go back to Perth (hopefully without working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day so I could see some of the place).
Come and train with us in Brisbane.
At present Brisbane is trying its best to prove theories of global warming, but it is usually a nice place to stay.
Trained this morning in the heat. Chilled watermelon, grapes and oranges afterwards. Beer is not out of the question.
There is only one dojo in Brisbane. You will know me straight away by my "COOL" kanji zekken.
(I haven't used that word for a while. I've been suffering withdrawal symptoms)

Request: Please nobody comment on kanji zekken before reading every other post on this forum regarding the topic.

[JuN]

This is a response to nanbanjin.. or wteva..

Why do you think, there is not a single asian basketball player
that can play like Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant e.t.c
Asian kids start and play basketball as young and seriously as anybody..
but none of them (Don't refer to Yao Ming) can play with the best in the NBA
Why? Bcoz none of them have neither the skill nor the speed, athleticism of those players. Can't refer to height coz all you need to do is just take a look at Mugsy Bogues, Spud Webb and a heap of other under 6foot players..
You could refer to the talent pool how Americans have so many better players to compete against.. but put an Asian player in there and he/she wont' compete.. coz there are limitations and Asians just cant play basketball better than Americans. Period.

I can quite confidently say you could place an American or Australian (sorry i meant non asian) in Japan at a young age and teach them kendo.
They may be really good, but frankly martial arts come more naturally
to asians than westerners.. period. Which is why
asians are generally better at them. Just as Americans are generally better at
bball, europe at soccer and e.t.c Who cares about talent pool?
Korea doesnt have no Japanese sensei teaching kendo to them. Maybe there is but most likely not. Coz korea is too stubborn to learn kendo and calls it kumdo when its the same thing but they still kick every1s ass except Japan.
And im not saying every asian is better than non asian. Im saying in general.

And why are Australians so damn arrogant and pride themselves so much? They claim to be good at sports.. but what do they win? They concentrate so much on what they win and not on what they don't win it seems they win much more than they actually do.
Who in the world plays aussie rules apart from Australia? That game is pathetic coz there is seriously no damn skill.. i have heard even aussies admitting that game is damn simple in terms of technique..
Swimming? If yous dominated MOST of the events then yes, australia is the best. Fact is, the USA wins a whole heaps of swimming events but they dont go on about it coz frankly, the US dont give a rats ass about swimming.
Maybe they do.. i dunno but Australia gets crammed by the US and Europe at Basketball, Soccer, Baseball, track and field and heaps of other sports. So you have a few olympic medal winners in track.. yeah
a couple out of.. loads of other events. Get a grip
Australia's the best in hockey, rugby, cricket
how many countries play those.
And after the rugby world cup, when australia lost to england. Australians complained they should reduce the field goal down to 1 point or something.
If Australia won, you'll comment on how brilliant the Australian team is, how the final score was close but its only because australia made errors..
its the same for tennis. Every bloody time an Australian plays someone.
Ooh.. Lleyton Hewwit is damn good but he's making errors so he isnt kicking the ass of the other guy. The other guy is playing ok but its only coz the Aussie is playing badly the other guy is winning. Give me a damn break.
I live here and i need to put up with this crap.

So stop saying scientific research aint worth looking at and that it depends on environment of the person. Go read more books. you are a kendo 4th dan.
Fact is you'll never be that good. Accept it.
Why do you think all the best players of a particular sports began as a kid? a coincidence? i think not. Okay, Michael Jordan, i know he started when he was older. but thats still like grade 7,8 when he was still a 'child' you aint a teenager at that age, mate.

[Nanbanjin]

This is a response to nanbanjin.. or wteva..

Why do you think, there is not a single asian basketball player
that can play like Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant e.t.c
Asian kids start and play basketball as young and seriously as anybody..
but none of them (Don't refer to Yao Ming) can play with the best in the NBA
Why? Bcoz none of them have neither the skill nor the speed, athleticism of those players. Can't refer to height coz all you need to do is just take a look at Mugsy Bogues, Spud Webb and a heap of other under 6foot players..
You could refer to the talent pool how Americans have so many better players to compete against.. but put an Asian player in there and he/she wont' compete.. coz there are limitations and Asians just cant play basketball better than Americans. Period.

I can quite confidently say you could place an American or Australian (sorry i meant non asian) in Japan at a young age and teach them kendo.
They may be really good, but frankly martial arts come more naturally
to asians than westerners.. period. Which is why
asians are generally better at them. Just as Americans are generally better at
bball, europe at soccer and e.t.c Who cares about talent pool?
Korea doesnt have no Japanese sensei teaching kendo to them. Maybe there is but most likely not. Coz korea is too stubborn to learn kendo and calls it kumdo when its the same thing but they still kick every1s ass except Japan.
And im not saying every asian is better than non asian. Im saying in general.

And why are Australians so damn arrogant and pride themselves so much? They claim to be good at sports.. but what do they win? They concentrate so much on what they win and not on what they don't win it seems they win much more than they actually do.
Who in the world plays aussie rules apart from Australia? That game is pathetic coz there is seriously no damn skill.. i have heard even aussies admitting that game is damn simple in terms of technique..
Swimming? If yous dominated MOST of the events then yes, australia is the best. Fact is, the USA wins a whole heaps of swimming events but they dont go on about it coz frankly, the US dont give a rats ass about swimming.
Maybe they do.. i dunno but Australia gets crammed by the US and Europe at Basketball, Soccer, Baseball, track and field and heaps of other sports. So you have a few olympic medal winners in track.. yeah
a couple out of.. loads of other events. Get a grip
Australia's the best in hockey, rugby, cricket
how many countries play those.
And after the rugby world cup, when australia lost to england. Australians complained they should reduce the field goal down to 1 point or something.
If Australia won, you'll comment on how brilliant the Australian team is, how the final score was close but its only because australia made errors..
its the same for tennis. Every bloody time an Australian plays someone.
Ooh.. Lleyton Hewwit is damn good but he's making errors so he isnt kicking the ass of the other guy. The other guy is playing ok but its only coz the Aussie is playing badly the other guy is winning. Give me a damn break.
I live here and i need to put up with this crap.

So stop saying scientific research aint worth looking at and that it
depends on environment of the person. Go read more books. you are a kendo 4th dan.
Fact is you'll never be that good. Accept it.
Why do you think all the best players of a particular sports began as a kid? a coincidence? i think not. Okay, Michael Jordan, i know he started when he was older. but thats still like grade 7,8 when he was still a 'child' you aint a teenager at that age, mate.
You have listed more Australian sporting achievements than I would have been able to come up with myself.
I don't really care all that much about sporting accolades. I reckon there's far too much emphasis on the sporting elite in Australia. Is this the point you are trying to make? If so I agree. I do think that given it's small population Australia does have a high number of top athletes, but so what?
At the Sydney Olympics I think Australia tallied fifth over all, which you have to admit is pretty impressive for a country of only twenty million, even if Australia was the host. But only twenty or so years earlier (I think Mexico?) Australia came close to last.

The only reference I made to Australians and sport was as follows:

"Australians are famous for being good at sport, but I think that we are a little elitist here and pour a lot of resources into top athletes at the expense of the obese couch potatoes that we are apparently breeding."

You have read far more into this sentence than was intended.
I understand that you live in Australia and you are probably sick to death of the amount of coverage sport gets in this country. I know I am. I still enjoyed listening to the cricket today though. India kicked Australia's arse, but they deserved to do well because they batted excellently.
I know that when I was a kid growing up in Australia I wasn't the most gifted sportsperson, and I found the culture here intimidating. Do you feel the same thing?
Is your tirade directed at me or at Australian culture in general?
Also, heaps of Australians think Lleyton Hewitt is a prat.

I don't deny that the you are better off starting sport at a younger age, but I think there reason might not be because of neural development. I tried to make this clear in my posts, and am sorry for not making it clear enough.

The only thing about your post that I possibly disagree with is that you seem convinced that there is a "martial arts gene" that Asians have that make them better than Westerners at kendo.

To quote from one of my earlier posts:

"I included "western" quite deliberately. I am a little undecided in regards to this argument. The evidence certainly seems to be in favour of Japanese (being better at kendo), because there are millions of good Japanese players and not many good western players."

In other words I don't know and don't claim to know the answer to this one. I don't like to argue along race based lines because it is rarely constructive and can tend to fuel racism.

What is the point of arguing that one race is better than another anyway? Why not just play kendo and see how good you get regardless of you race?

One thing interesting about the "martial arts gene" theory is where does it extend to?
Do Philippinos have the same gene? Does it extend to India or the Middle East. Where abouts on the map do you draw the line between being able to play kendo and not being able to play kendo? Which asian nation is generally the genetically strongest at kendo? Is the gene-pool strongest in Japan, gradually thinning outwards from this point?

I am happy to admit that my kendo will never be that good. Either will my golf, billiards, soccer, cricket etc., etc.
Heaps of Japanese and non-Japanese people whip me at kendo.
Between you and me I reckon that the best kendo player in Australia would not last any great length of time against a fairly average high school kendo player from Japan. I am still far from convinced that this is because of genetics.

In regards to Korean kendo players, aren't Koreans the best because kendo originated in Korea? Just kidding!

Where abouts in Australia do you live? I might know you. Do you know me? I wont be offended if you say my kendo sucks.

[Nanbanjin]

Also, though I don't think it makes a jot of difference, I think Michael Jordan was 14 or 15 when he started taking basketball seriously. Give a reference if you are going to refute this.

[Neil Gendzwill]

but put an Asian player in there and he/she wont' compete.. coz there are limitations and Asians just cant play basketball better than Americans. Period.
And your extensive research notes on this absolute fact are where? The reason Asians don't compete against the US is the same as the reason they don't compete against Canada in hockey - no infrastructure. The fact that there are a few kids who take it seriously is nothing compared to a systematic, competitive infrastructure of leagues and coaching that starts before the kids are even in school. Same reason why the Japanese kick ass in kendo. You'll note that with the huge popularity of baseball and golf in Japan that they are producing players who compete at a world level.

They may be really good, but frankly martial arts come more naturally
to asians than westerners.. period.
Tell that to all the europeans who have won judo and fencing medals at the olympics. Again, infrastructure.

Now I won't deny that genetics has a role. I just think it's hard to seperate it from environment and infrastructure. Why are most boxing champions black or hispanic? Genetics, or the fact that tough living conditions produce tough fighters whose only shot at success is in the ring?

[Onara]

This is a response to nanbanjin.. or wteva..

Why do you think, there is not a single asian basketball player
that can play like Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant e.t.c
Asian kids start and play basketball as young and seriously as anybody..
but none of them (Don't refer to Yao Ming) can play with the best in the NBA
there are limitations and Asians just cant play basketball better than Americans. Period.

I can quite confidently say you could place an American or Australian (sorry i meant non asian) in Japan at a young age and teach them kendo.
They may be really good, but frankly martial arts come more naturally
to asians than westerners.. period. Fact is, the USA wins a whole heaps of swimming events but they dont go on about it coz frankly, the US dont give a rats ass about swimming.
Maybe they do.. i dunno

What is that mess?

[Katana]

Okay, Michael Jordan, i know he started when he was older. but thats still like grade 7,8 when he was still a 'child' you aint a teenager at that age, mate.
Actually, if you took the time and care to read, it was grade 12/13. He was probably around 22 when he got serious.

And I have nor the time or patience to reply to all the things I disagree on in that mess. So quite simply, I won't :) .