Korean Shinai

[CH0ZEN]

I heard that the Korean World team uses particularly well made and well balanced shinai. Does anyone know what specific brand/type of shinai the Korean team uses and where we can purchase such shinai?

Thank you.

[RC_Kenshi]

As Lance Armstrong wrote: "It's Not About the Bike".

[psycho4speed]

Why does Lance Armstrong use:
1.) His entire equipment weighs less than 15 Pounds - Price of a Mercedes
2.) $200 Helmet, which weighs less than 10 ounces
3.) Clothes that weigh total of 4 ounces from Nike - $$$$$
4.) Shoes that are less than 12 ounces - about $300
5.) 2.43 Pound Tek Frame - $2,800
6.) Aerospace quality Carbon Fiber Wheels - $$$$$
7.) Aged tires - He uses lots of sets - $$$$$
8.) Component Shimano Dura-Ace - $1,350
9.) Pedal Shimano Dura-Ace - $215
10.) COMPUTER: Ciclosport HAC 4 Plus, $440
11.) Wind Tunnel - $$$$$
Nike and other sponsors probably spends a ton of money on him for technology and to reduce weight.
Everything is about the bike and technology.

[Kenzan]

As Lance Armstrong wrote: "It's Not About the Bike".

I think Sheryl Crowe would beg to differ.
:D

[psycho4speed]

Most of them use 475gram REAL Madake Shinais.
With leather it become around 510g.

[JSchmidt]

Why does Lance Armstrong use:

10.) COMPUTER: Ciclosport HAC 4 Plus, $440


I seriously doubt he uses that piece of crap and winning TdF is most definitely not about the bike. You can go down and buy exactly the same bike for a few (ok 4-5) grand, but I can guarantee you, unless you have trained hard and long you wont be able to finish a single stage in within 150% of Lance's time.

[CH0ZEN]

Most of them use 475gram REAL Madake Shinais.
With leather it become around 510g.

Thank you. But would you happen to know where they get them from? Specifically, I'm interested in which retailer/manufacturer provides the shinai. Thanks again.

[foundinsea]

My guess is that they probably get them from Japan. I've been to a few kendo shops in Seoul and they don't have anything as close to some of the nice custom shinai you can buy in Japan...or even online. They used to sell Korean bamboo shinai, which were pretty good actually, but since the government banned the cutting down of Korean bamboo, they import all their bamboo from China. Some shops sell ready made shinai, others make the shinai themselves from the imported bamboo. I think Sehyun makes their own shinai but I don't think they do custom work, except maybe for the national team. You can try asking.

[Kagerou]

They have a magical gnome that farts out shinai for them.

Honestly, it's not going to matter one bit for you. Remember who said "It must be the shoes".

hint: It wasn't Michael

[easye]

As Lance Armstrong wrote: "It's Not About the Bike".

...Its about the right doctor and the right recipe of steroids LOL

E

[easye]

I seriously doubt he uses that piece of crap and winning TdF is most definitely not about the bike. You can go down and buy exactly the same bike for a few (ok 4-5) grand, but I can guarantee you, unless you have trained hard and long you wont be able to finish a single stage in within 150% of Lance's time.

Tour bikes are more like $10K to $15K, you might get a good set of wheels for $3000

E

[Neil Gendzwill]

...Its about the right doctor and the right recipe of steroidsIf you think any of the top tour riders are clean, I've got some land I'd like to sell you... it's all about who gets caught.

[ahmed61086]

I heard that the Korean World team uses particularly well made and well balanced shinai. Does anyone know what specific brand/type of shinai the Korean team uses and where we can purchase such shinai?

Thank you.

If they are anything like their Japanese counter parts, all their shinais are custom made for them. So you wont be getting the same shiniais as them anytime soon.

[Abramo]

What's the problem in wanting to know who is their supplier? I mean, really, you either know it and is willing to share the information or you don't know it and then what's the point in posting wiseassery here? Sure, it's a good way to get some +Rep but everyone else who's interested is still in the dark. There's nothing wrong in seeking out quality products even if our Kendo sucks.

If they're all custom made, who custom makes it? They travel around with a shinai-ya guy who shizz's up a specific brand/manufacturer's product, or they have special bamboo custom-grown since the bamboolings in a seekrit sacred site in Mongolia? What's the name and patronimic of the farting gnome? Or they just buy special stuff from a store? In any case, who/what is the supplier??

[Maku-san]

I think Sheryl Crowe would beg to differ.
:D

Then why's she not with Livestrong Lance anymore?!?:confused:

[Maku-san]

They have a magical gnome that farts out shinai for them.

Honestly, it's not going to matter one bit for you. Remember who said "It must be the shoes".

hint: It wasn't Michael

Dammit... "Must Spread Rep!" :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Maku-san]

What's the problem in wanting to know who is their supplier? I mean, really, you either know it and is willing to share the information or you don't know it and then what's the point in posting wiseassery here? Sure, it's a good way to get some +Rep but everyone else who's interested is still in the dark. There's nothing wrong in seeking out quality products even if our Kendo sucks.

If they're all custom made, who custom makes it? They travel around with a shinai-ya guy who shizz's up a specific brand/manufacturer's product, or they have special bamboo custom-grown since the bamboolings in a seekrit sacred site in Mongolia? What's the name and patronimic of the farting gnome? Or they just buy special stuff from a store? In any case, who/what is the supplier??

Well, Abramo-san, it boils down to this:

It's for US (meaning the Korea Kendo Team) to know and it's for YOU (meaning everybody else) to find out!!!!

[ghostdancer]

lets face it they (the Korean team) could probably, use junior high school club throwout shinai and hand nearly all of us a lesson in humility, with my self right at the top of the list

like the man said its not about the equipment it ALL about the person using it

[Abramo]

When I open my own Kendo store I'll stand proudly in front of a wide selection of shinai from all over the world and greet every costumer with a big smile and when they ask something about a particular shinai or ask me what shinai I recomend I'll just escort them to the exit, shaking my head, and say "Grasshoper, it's not about the shinai".

I think E-bogu and Tozando and such should asnwer all shinai-related e-mails in a like fashion.

:rolleyes:

[psycho4speed]

If there is an equipment that gives me a slight advantage, I would use it.
Even if it is only for Placebo Effect.

[CH0ZEN]

It's funny but after reading two pages of replies and answers, we get a lot of information about tour bikes, doping, and equipment not being important to one's kendo, but we still don't have an answer as to who makes their shinai. Interesting. On another note, if equipment doesn't matter, then why does everyone spend a pretty penny on bogu as opposed to buying the cheapest set they can find?

[Toecutter]

On another note, if equipment doesn't matter, then why does everyone spend a pretty penny on bogu as opposed to buying the cheapest set they can find?
Put a five dollar coleman cooler bike helmet on then try a nice mori budo and see what the difference is. Personally speaking a shinai is a shinai, I've had cheap ones and a few expensive ones and I like the cheaper ones. The only difference I can see is weight, the balance part of it I really can’t tell the difference although I'm sure there is one, just at my stage it doesn't matter.

[Abramo]

I'm sure Chozen's question was rethoric and I have to fully agree with him(?) that we still know nothing about the korean shinai, though we know an awful lot about "budo philosophy".

[Big One]

I would think the Korean team used the Korean Shinai. There is no point of using Japanese shinai to beat up Japanese team. There is no national pride in it.

Another thing is I don't believe that Korean didn't have expert to make excellent shinai. We just don't know about it.

Even a cheap shinai in the hand of an expert will become a weapon, but even the expert still prefers his own choice.

Lets get the show down:

Japanese Shinai Vs. Korean Shinai. :laugh:

[Wesley Myers]

If you think any of the top tour riders are clean, I've got some land I'd like to sell you... it's all about who gets caught.

And if anyone is wanting to buy some land here, I have some bridges I can include for a great price (that also goes for any top athlete in the Olympics or pro-sports).

[CH0ZEN]

It's a buyers market. Too bad though, i'd really like an answer to my original question. I wonder if we have any Korean kenshi on this forum who can provide us with a response.

[CH0ZEN]

It's a buyers market. Too bad though, i'd really like an answer to my original question. I wonder if we have any Korean kenshi on this forum who can provide us with a response. :)

[H.Sandsleth]

Why don't you pose your question to www.kumdo.org? If they want people to know, I'm sure someone will provide you with an answer.

[sam.i.am2]

I can not speak for the Korean National Team but based on my past conversations with a former member of the Korean National Team, I can say that Korean kendokas at that level use real Madake bamboo shinais made specially for them. Given intense training regimen, these professional/company-sponsored team members go through shinais like wooden chopsticks at Chinese restaurants (exaggeration of course). One guy told me he normally goes through one a week or two! One of my dojang mate received a shinai from the former Korean National Team member as a gift so I actually had a chance to hold one in my hands. It was very well balanced with top quality tsuka. But the guys who can afford customized high quality Madake shinai is probably exception rather than a rule given that they go through shinais at higher rate than the average kendoka. Most Korean kendokas use medium quality shinais imported from China from what I understand.

[Kenzan]

I can not speak for the Korean National Team but based on my past conversations with a former member of the Korean National Team, I can say that Korean kendokas at that level use real Madake bamboo shinais made specially for them. Given intense training regimen, these professional/company-sponsored team members go through shinais like wooden chopsticks at Chinese restaurants (exaggeration of course). One guy told me he normally goes through one a week or two! One of my dojang mate received a shinai from the former Korean National Team member as a gift so I actually had a chance to hold one in my hands. It was very well balanced with top quality tsuka. But the guys who can afford customized high quality Madake shinai is probably exception rather than a rule given that they go through shinais at higher rate than the average kendoka. Most Korean kendokas use medium quality shinais imported from China from what I understand.

I'm wondering:
Is breaking Shinai a lot regardless of quality a good thing, or a bad thing?
Does it mean:
My Kendo is so awesome that a mere, mortal Shinai cannot possibly hope to contain the raging beast (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue270/letters1.jpg)which dwells within me?

Is it reasonable to expect a good Kendoka goes through a Shinai a week?
Is that how we are measuring excellence?

[soapdish]

Kenzan originally posted:
I'm wondering:
Is breaking Shinai a lot regardless of quality a good thing, or a bad thing?
Does it mean:
My Kendo is so awesome that a mere, mortal Shinai cannot possibly hope to contain the raging beast (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue270/letters1.jpg)which dwells within me?

Is it reasonable to expect a good Kendoka goes through a Shinai a week?
Is that how we are measuring excellence?

Given that these guys/girls are part of the shireop suhnsoo/tokuren senshu group that practices 3 times a day 6 days a week, I think that is kendo excellence per se. I don't think that they think its excellent to break shinai as much as they can.

[Kenzan]

Then why's she not with Livestrong Lance anymore?!?:confused:

Because she got to ride the Kenzan express..
:confused2
:D

[Kenzan]

Given that these guys/girls are part of the shireop suhnsoo/tokuren senshu group that practices 3 times a day 6 days a week, I think that is kendo excellence per se.

I think it's fair to say that's not really addressing the point.


My feeling is, breaking Shinai often does not necessarily mean that someone is hardcore, or serious, or skilled.

...It makes me think that if it's happening a lot, it means something is probably wrong.

But then again, I have not seen anything yet which has shown me that expensive Shinai makes someone's skill better either.

[Kagerou]

I think it's fair to say that's not really addressing the point.


My feeling is, breaking Shinai often does not necessarily mean that someone is hardcore, or serious, or skilled.

...It makes me think that if it's happening a lot, it means something is probably wrong.

But then again, I have not seen anything yet which has shown me that expensive Shinai makes someone's skill better either.

IF they go through them that fast (second hand report so exaggerated probably) it just means they train for a long time every day and accumulate the wear that the average kenshi does a lot faster. I'm sure other teams go through them pretty fast too (again the rate is subject to exaggeration...)

[turboyoshi]

But then again, I have not seen anything yet which has shown me that expensive Shinai makes someone's skill better either.

It won't make a difference for the vast majority. I think it's silly to obsess over it.
IMO, equipment only really means something when the other differences between competitors are so minute AND your skill level is so high, that even small differences in equipment can throw off one's game, just enough, to give advantage to the opponent. How often is that going to happen?

[soapdish]

Kenzan

I am nidan, so I speak from relative inexperience. maybe you have seen, and experienced alot more kendo than me.

But i have to disagree with this:


My feeling is, breaking Shinai often does not necessarily mean that someone is hardcore, or serious, or skilled.

...It makes me think that if it's happening a lot, it means something is probably wrong.


I have been to both Korea and Japan. I have seen shireoup sunhsoo and tokuren senshu who train 3 times a day 6 days a week and in their spare time may very well teach.

I wouldn't dare say what you have said to them re their technique regarding shinai breakage.

I agree with you insofar that breaking shinai doesn't equate to skill level. It might mean that on the other hand a brand new beginner who's whacking a shinai instead of cutting it doesn't have the necessary technique.

You originally asked two questions:


Is it reasonable to expect a good Kendoka goes through a Shinai a week?
Is that how we are measuring excellence?

As I say earlier, I wouldn't say what is reasonable to a suhnsoo or senshu re kendo ability. As I also say I wouldn't say to them that their shinai is breaking because they have wrong technique.

As I also say earlier, I agree with you that breaking shinai doesn't equate to kendo excellence. My idea of kendo excellence is training 3 times a day 6 days a week with some pretty awesome instructors. I hope you don't think i was trying to be sarcastic, but that's what i sincerely believe. I have nothing but respect for suhnsoo and senshu who have devoted their lives to kumdo/kendo.

[Kenzan]

Kenzan
I wouldn't dare say what you have said to them re their technique regarding shinai breakage.


Whoa...You're ARE new here aren't you?
LOL
:D



You originally asked two questions:


I did? Geeze..I hope there won't be a quiz at the end...




As I also say I wouldn't say to them that their shinai is breaking because they have wrong technique.

I don't think I said that either, though it's interesting that you choose to bring it up, don't you think?




My idea of kendo excellence is training 3 times a day 6 days a week with some pretty awesome instructors. I hope you don't think i was trying to be sarcastic, but that's what i sincerely believe.


Fear not, my good man, I'm quite sarcastic enough for the both of us..
:D

Hmm..That's where we may differ in opinion, -as I have found that time in hours training does not necessarily equate to anything but time spent training.
Hell, if that were the case I should be freaking Bruce Lee by now. LOL

But I have to ask myself...

What's really the goal we're talking about here?
Only winning at Shiai?



I have nothing but respect for suhnsoo and senshu who have devoted their lives to kumdo/kendo.

...You'll have to forgive me but, who?

and more importantly, why should I care?

Then again, seeing how I'm an unwashed noob meself, I'm always willing to be shown.

Got any vids per chance?

[Kenzan]

IF they go through them that fast (second hand report so exaggerated probably) it just means they train for a long time every day and accumulate the wear that the average kenshi does a lot faster. I'm sure other teams go through them pretty fast too (again the rate is subject to exaggeration...)

What, you worked out a formula for Shinai breakage,
Herr Professor?.

It's not math.

Wait...(Proper English)

Mathes..

:D

[Super Kodachi2]

Having just come back from Korea a few monhs ago I can probably help with regard to good quality Korean Shinai. I can't comment on what the Korean National Team uses specifically, but I can advise on what I have found to be two very good brands of Korean Shinai (Juk-do).

There is a Korean Shinai called "Chong Sim" that is approved by the Korea Kumdo Association, you can tell Chong Sim by the small KKA logo stamped onto the Shinai and also by the distinctive purple kanji engraved into the bamboo.

They are excellent balance and weight and handle very nicely. Price wise they are also excellent value for money, but I have heard that Chong Sim are suggested mostly for Shiai as they are not as robust for everyday practice as some other Shinai.

Another good Korean Shinai is called a "Hi" shinai. It typically has a thicker Tsuka and has a ballance similar to Eiko Budogu's Tonbo Shinai. It's more robust and durable that a Chong Sim and again is very good value compared to the higher price of some Japanese Shinai.

From my own epxerience at visiting Budo Shops in Seoul, and at visiting budo stalls at tournaments there they sell a wide variety of Imported Shinai from Japan, as well as their own brand shinai made from Chinese or Taiwanese bamboo.

I hope this helps

[CH0ZEN]

Hey Super K, thank you for the information concerning the shinai. Would you happen to know how I can go about purchasing the shinai in the States? Do you know of their company web address? Thank you.

[Kagerou]

What, you worked out a formula for Shinai breakage,
Herr Professor?.

....how did you know I was German?

cue bad German accent

WE HAVE A SPY!!! GIT HIM!! GIT HIM NOW!!!



It's not math.

Sure it is. Find an engineer (or better an eng student....they haven't forgotten yet) and ask them to work out how much stress bamboo can take before critical failure. They're nerdy enough to think it would be fun....wait you're a computer nerd, you'd probably like it too.


Wait...(Proper English)

Mathes..

:D

If you're going to use proper English you have to find a smiley with bad teeth. :smoker:

[Big One]

Well, for all of us low life, we have no credit to say that training for shiai is not good Kendo. I wouldn't say to Mizayaki that his Kendo suck since he trained and won 3 time AJKC and his Kendo is shiai kendo.

I bet the National team breaking more shinai than any of us. They really suck eh?

[Maku-san]

Because she got to ride the Kenzan express..
:confused2
:D

WOOOOT!!! :laugh:

Just don't get any saddle sores, compadre! Those itty-bitty 10-speed racing bike seats are just not made for our he-man crotches... :evil:

[samurai80]

Isn't the real answer, "who gives a a fuck?". If it isn't to do with handle width, then its a bunch of bullshit to get us to pay more. I've got $20 shinai that crush whatever the 40-50 dollar ones were capable of. They lasted longer, too. Breaking shinai means you hit too hard, or you hit mengane too much. A fifth kyu can figure that out. Maybe you want to chalk it up to not oiling your shinai, and sanding it, and putting it together over & over again. Then again, every shinai I ever treated well (one) lasted about a month. The rest of them that I treat like crap, and leave in my trunk last about 6 months to a year. Buying expensive shinai...heh. Bamboo is bamboo. If you suck, you suck. If you're good, you're good.

[Chaby]

Is it reasonable to expect a good Kendoka goes through a Shinai a week?
Is that how we are measuring excellence?

Holy smoke!
My Kendo Reheheheeely sucks!
I'm using my third shinai in three years...
:(

Please help me learn the correct way of using it.

On the serious note:Lifespan of the shinai is also conditioned by the motodachi.
When I see my motodachi elevating his chin just before my men lands and thus hitting the mengane at the top part, I go mad...mad I tell you!
Even after explaining it's better for their health sake to hold the chin in...

[CH0ZEN]

You must be using the good Korean shinai that I've been trying so hard to find!

[Kenzan]

Holy smoke!
My Kendo Reheheheeely sucks!
I'm using my third shinai in three years...
:(



Really now.
Did you think up that amazingly witty comeback all by yourself?
Or did you have help...Be honest now.



Please help me learn the correct way of using it.


What, so you can make a twirly sword video on Youtube?

Nuts to that.
Nothing doin!




On the serious note:Lifespan of the shinai is also conditioned by the motodachi.
When I see my motodachi elevating his chin just before my men lands and thus hitting the mengane at the top part, I go mad...mad I tell you!
Even after explaining it's better for their health sake to hold the chin in...

Sure..Blame the other guy.

:D

That was you New Year's...
BAM!

Everybody gets one.

[Chaby]

Really now.
Did you think up that amazingly witty comeback all by yourself?
Or did you have help...Be honest now.



Well, I started on my own.
There I was: thinking and thinking some more,when all of a sudden my head started to hurt so I got help...
There!
Are you happy now?You, you big meany you!
:silly:




That was you New Year's...
BAM!

Everybody gets one.


Thanks Kenz-dude, you shouldn't have.
;)



You must be using the good Korean shinai that I've been trying so hard to find!


Actually, it's the caring and maintaining (http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1571/164/112/623078788/n623078788_1178392_9054.jpg) what counts.
:smoker:

[Kenzan]

Are you happy now?You, you big meany you!
:silly:


buy me a пиво and we'll call it even.

:D


Actually, it's the caring and maintaining (http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1571/164/112/623078788/n623078788_1178392_9054.jpg) what counts.
:smoker:

Here's a chance to show my physic powers!

I'm getting an image here.........hmmmm..yes..yes......it's forming a clearer picture.......nnnnnnn

AH!

You're thinking....about....an acne problem..and ..you're wondering....where it's coming from....


and........ok...now you're thinking..."how come I can't have a girlfriend?"

:laugh:


But seriously.
Dude.
+1 Rep for that awesome pic!


:D