Simple reason for training

[onecut]

Hi, a second post to the first. Just wanted to drop some thoughts on reasons for training. I asked myself a few days ago "why do you run" and found that the answer is the same had I asked myself "why practice with the sword." Thanks! A bit long.

Because there are moments of such clarity, of such joy in moving. In every step, every breathe, every clench of every muscle there is a joy, an exaltation. That for some stretches I am running the best I can, that there is no doubt in my mind that I'm moving the fastest, the strongest and with the surest steps. That there are times when there are no thoughts, yet it feels as if I'm thinking with my body, reading the upcoming road and judging all obstacles. Crouched, ready to move- I know I could move any direction- that feeling of energy pulsing, coursing outward, ready to spread along the course. There are long lengths of road seeming to stretch to infinity where there is only existence, the feel of the wind, the sound of breathing. It is waking up and knowing that everything to do is done in preparation for running. That the moment momentum is gained you are committed and trapped, yet that trap holds a period of freedom never to gained outside.

Thanks, good luck in training

[Mr. T.]

I don't want to be rude, I'm not in the philosophical mood (and I'll never be again thanks to Phil and his rambling nonsence :D), but I don't get it. :confused:

Besides that, what is your background in Japanese sword arts, maybe that might shed some light on what you mean. :confused2

[Kagerou]

There are long lengths of road seeming to stretch to infinity where there is only existence, the feel of the wind, the sound of breathing. It is waking up and knowing that everything to do is done in preparation for running.

I get this feeling every morning as I'm running to the station to catch my train to work.....

But seriously, poetry is over most of our heads. It's a side effect of being clubbed over the head with a stick. Some of the best advice I was ever given in school was K.I.S.S - keep it simple stupid.

[chidokan]

Answer: Because its what I do and it is in my nature to do this type of thing. If I didnt do sword, I would be doing something similar, hence why I play around with archery and go flyfishing.
I reckon a lot of people on here are similar in that respect... I wonder how many of us can watch Heki ryu ( http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1113295/4064537 ) and not fancy having a go???

[Trent]

The simple answer to why I do kendo is: I enjoy doing it

[SanguineKendoka]

Because there are moments of such clarity, of such joy in moving. In every step, every breathe, every clench of every muscle there is a joy, an exaltation. That for some stretches I am running the best I can, that there is no doubt in my mind that I'm moving the fastest, the strongest and with the surest steps. That there are times when there are no thoughts, yet it feels as if I'm thinking with my body, reading the upcoming road and judging all obstacles. Crouched, ready to move- I know I could move any direction- that feeling of energy pulsing, coursing outward, ready to spread along the course. There are long lengths of road seeming to stretch to infinity where there is only existence, the feel of the wind, the sound of breathing. It is waking up and knowing that everything to do is done in preparation for running. That the moment momentum is gained you are committed and trapped, yet that trap holds a period of freedom never to gained outside.

Thanks, good luck in training

The exercise increases the release of serotonine, dopamine and endorphins in the brain, making you more aware and happier. No magic involved, no mysticism. Do you actually do Kendo or Iaido? It'd help to know where you're coming from with these wierd monologues.

[onecut]

Just wanted to change topic and post some training concepts. About the importance of imagination. Careful, its long.

Thoughts that skittered around my head before sleep. It was about the importance of imagination in training. By imagination I mean that ability to consciously create new ideas, to see a way of uniting different shapes and forms to a single unity or to say it another way, to leave linear thinking at right angles. I remember the first few years of martial arts, I was so focused on learning the basics and the different katas. But not once did I think beyond the limitations of what the teacher was showing me. Never did I see the branching movements possible from even the simplest shifts of weight. It was like I was trapped in the style and pattern of that school and was defeated because I hadn't yet learned all the techniques and ways to utilize them. Now with the passage of a few years I see it was my fault for not analyzing my training and realizing that each position in a kata is just a moment frozen in the flow of energy.

Now I see the importance of thinking beyond the first idea, whether its from teachers, something seen or something intuitive. When training under a teacher I should learn to see each technique, each movement as independent yet capable of integration in a thousand places. Watching more advanced students I should wonder why are they better? And when I see something new I should try to imagine all other techniques it could be used with.

Training alone is far more difficult, for just ask yourself which is harder; the creation of a new idea or to build upon those of others? In this training I believe our ability to reason, to think, to imagine is most important. More so than discipline or the will to train, for past a certain point the yearn to improve becomes the reason to train. By yourself you have no one else to rely upon, no one to correct you or offer insight. For that sole reason you have to fight yourself. Every cut you make, and every dodge, parry and jump you do must fail. You must be defeated in every technique you possess. And you must think why? What was the weakness of that angle of cut? Why was I hit when jumping away? Only the constant imagining of such outcomes can yield new discoveries, new methods of defeating that phantom opponent. As you get stronger, as the connections between muscles, synapses and brain grow and the understanding of techniques evolves so should the skill of that imaginary opponent. In this way I think you can achieve amazing insights, ones that can strengthen your resolve.

But I must acknowledge that the best tool for improvement is also its greatest limitation. There is no one else to think for me, no one else to provide a framework for improvement. I am limited to thinking deductively through an impasse or to the rare moments after a strike when an epiphany comes, illuminating the previously unknown.

So you train your body to move without hesitation, where a flow of movements become one. And so you train your mind to do so as well, acting and reacting without stopping to think. Short, stocky movements become strong, fast ones become smooth, precise ones become beginning and ending. It takes the flexibility of imagination to achieve this. To always question, to always wonder "what can I do with this?"

Thanks, good luck training

[Alison2805]

Watching more advanced students I should wonder why are they better?

Probably because they trained longer and have a more solid grasp of basics than you. Nothing amazing about that kiddo.

If you want to run around inventing sword styles, thats great. But dont expect people here to think your any different from the thousands of other wanna-be snotty teenage ninjas waving sticks in the parking lot.

Perhaps practising your writing style is a better use of your time, you could possibly be a good fiction writer if you did some courses (Im not being sarcastic either. You need training to make your words and ideas flow better though).

[Fox]

I’ll apologize in advance for the length of my own post.

I concur with Allison on the point of your potential as a writer. You seem to have a relatively good vocabulary and you seem to have knack for deriving an impressive level of mysticism from what seem to be some very basic concepts. However, as Allison also noted, your posts tend to be verbose to the point of being unwieldy.

Also, these observations you seem to make are not the kinds of things KW forumites usually tolerate for very long. Assuming the circumlocutions wrought in your posts were made in earnest for the sake of conversation, let it be known that you are liable to have your legitimacy questioned. If this occurs in the form of flaming from other members, let it also be known that it is not done with malicious intent. Newcomers who spout wild fantasies or wax philosophical with romantic dreams about ‘arts of the sword’ often quickly find that this is not the place for them. Most serious Kendoka are more interested in preserving the legitimacy of the art than they are in making it appealing to the ‘masses’, so the formality represented by time taken to explain this fact is often set aside in favor of the more direct approach of “Who are you and what is this nonsense?”

Kendo means different things to different people, but I am sure a lot of Kendoka wince when they see posts like the one to which I am currently referring. It’s like seeing someone trigger a sort of malevolent Rube-Goldberg machine; all observers can do is watch the sardonically humorous chain reaction, knowing both the fact of what will happen and that it cannot be stopped. Truthfully, you’ll save yourself a lot of embarrassment by reserving such thoughts for private correspondence with closer associates and bringing only Kendo to Kendo World.

After all, if you are interested in Kendo, I am sure everyone here would be happy to help you get involved with Kendo ~ but if you are not interested in Kendo, perhaps there are other websites that would show greater appreciation for your variety of posts.
Respectfully:

~Fox.

[chidokan]

most people go through some level of " but if you do that, what happens when I do this?"... a sort of scissor/paper/stone discussion/demonstration then goes on, where I normally cut it short after a few questions. It is usually obvious to the student by this that if you master the ryu, you have all the answers to the 'what ifs'? (not that I have mastered anything, I just know enough to answer a few of the what ifs!:laugh:)

[Peter West]

Going back to the original post:
why not just run?
or just do kendo?
It shouldn't be necessary to have all these poetic motivations and justifications.... just do it.

To your second post: get to a dojo and train every day for 25 years. if you still need to ask those questions, I'll give them some time, though after 25 years of training I doubt if you will still consider them relevant.

[Bokushingu]

if you put chopped nuts on vanilla ice cream, it is still ice cream but with nut
if you put chocolate syrup on it, it's still ice cream under it
if you add whip cream, Ice cream is still the foundation
if you add a cherry on the top, you may call it a sundae, but actually it's a corruption of ice cream.
so just eat the ice cream...
same thing with kendo.

[kensenbatusaii]

Going back to the original post:
why not just run?
or just do kendo?
It shouldn't be necessary to have all these poetic motivations and justifications.... just do it.

To your second post: get to a dojo and train every day for 25 years. if you still need to ask those questions, I'll give them some time, though after 25 years of training I doubt if you will still consider them relevant.


does one really need that long to learn something profound like this?

:chinese::chinese::chinese:

[samurai80]

does one really need that long to learn something profound like this?

:chinese::chinese::chinese:

I would think it isn't that profound to understand the concept of not using excessive smiley faces in every post, but it may take you WAY more than 25 years to figure that out.

[kensenbatusaii]

I would think it isn't that profound to understand the concept of not using excessive smiley faces in every post, but it may take you WAY more than 25 years to figure that out.


and an overreaction to a simple loss of rep points would?

looking at your posts it took me less than 25......seconds!

:chinese::chinese::chinese:

..errr...oh dear i bet your friends will go barking behind me now!!

[samurai80]

Nice try. Re-read my post, and maybe you won't sound like a dumbass. It didn't have to do with rep points, stupid. Notice that I have friends. Then notice you are officially the lowest ranked person on here. You're even less popular than the trolls. You are literally the least liked person on KW. I'm guessing that carries over to real life. Feel free to come up with a lack-luster reply. Don't forget to type in a way that no person with an I.Q. above 60 would type in, and I'm sure you'll remember to add smileys in there. Ummm...whatever your next post is, I'll go ahead and reply with "boooooooo!". I "win".:(:(:(<-See that? That means I'm sad. Sad that you own a computer.

[Peter West]

does one really need that long to learn something profound like this?

:chinese::chinese::chinese:

Did you ever see that film in the 80's called The Challenge? There was one really good quote, well, I say quote, I've not seen it for so long this has to be a paraphrase:

It takes a lifetime to learn the master's way, for you maybe one lifetime will not be enough

No, it doesn't necessarily take 25 years, and because i've taken 28 so far and am still struggling doesn't mean that no-one can do it quicker. What I meant was I see no valid reason for engaging in a discussion about such things with anyone who has not trained regularly and seriously for about 25 years. Such a person would have no foundation of experience upon which to base an argument. The OP and his/her subsequent post was empty pretentious drivel and betrayed a total lack of insight.

[kensenbatusaii]

Did you ever see that film in the 80's called The Challenge? There was one really good quote, well, I say quote, I've not seen it for so long this has to be a paraphrase:

It takes a lifetime to learn the master's way, for you maybe one lifetime will not be enough

No, it doesn't necessarily take 25 years, and because i've taken 28 so far and am still struggling doesn't mean that no-one can do it quicker. What I meant was I see no valid reason for engaging in a discussion about such things with anyone who has not trained regularly and seriously for about 25 years. Such a person would have no foundation of experience upon which to base an argument. The OP and his/her subsequent post was empty pretentious drivel and betrayed a total lack of insight.



I agree. I don't necessarily refer to the OP. There might be a few dan grades who at one point thought something along this lines but pretty much kept it among themselves. This OP is likely to be a beginner or someone who had an opprtunity to observe a class and soon to start, or at most a low kyu grade who has been lurking in this forum for quite awhile. Best guess a second account.


:chinese::chinese::chinese:

[kensenbatusaii]

Nice try. Re-read my post, and maybe you won't sound like a dumbass. It didn't have to do with rep points, stupid. Notice that I have friends. Then notice you are officially the lowest ranked person on here. You're even less popular than the trolls. You are literally the least liked person on KW. I'm guessing that carries over to real life. Feel free to come up with a lack-luster reply. Don't forget to type in a way that no person with an I.Q. above 60 would type in, and I'm sure you'll remember to add smileys in there. Ummm...whatever your next post is, I'll go ahead and reply with
"boooooooo!". I "win".:(:(:(<-See that? That means I'm sad. Sad that you own a computer.


your anger is too much

there you go again

with those expletives

the ones you used to attack the moderators

when you thought you were shortchanged

with rep points

yes im not popular

in this forum but not in the dojos i visit

yes im the lowest rank here

but my rank is higher than yours

in kendo that is

you are a kid and you should be angry

but sometimes you have to grow up

now, now, im sorry about how you feel

yes son....you win


:chinese::chinese::chinese:

[Mr. T.]

Just wanted to change topic and post some training concepts... bla, bla, bla...

Nice and all, but who are you? Besides the fact that you actually seem to make a bit more sence this time, what arts do you train and what rank do you have in those arts to start lecuring us? I'm not trying to be mean here, even though I sound mean, but all the silly stuff makes me wonder if you don't just live in Fantasyland together with uncle Phil. :(

Now go back to your sensei and train instead of going all crazy on the web. I'm really sorry, but I have the impression that you have no clue what so ever about JSA. So please, be so kind make some sence or find yourself a dojo.

With high regards,

[rfoxmich]

The exercise increases the release of serotonine, dopamine and endorphins in the brain, making you more aware and happier. No magic involved, no mysticism. Do you actually do Kendo or Iaido? It'd help to know where you're coming from with these wierd monologues.

So in other words we do kendo because we enjoy the use of large quantities of psychoactive substances ;-)

[Peter West]

So in other words we do kendo because we enjoy the use of large quantities of psychoactive substances ;-)

It's either that or chocolate.

[samurai80]

your anger is too much

there you go again

with those expletives

the ones you used to attack the moderators

when you thought you were shortchanged

with rep points

yes im not popular

in this forum but not in the dojos i visit

yes im the lowest rank here

but my rank is higher than yours

in kendo that is

you are a kid and you should be angry

but sometimes you have to grow up

now, now, im sorry about how you feel

yes son....you win


:chinese::chinese::chinese:

Like I said. "Booooooooo!".
Seriously. If you just type, the words aren't going to fall off the right side of the screen. What's your rank again? If it's higher than sandan, you should feel embarrassed. If you're a hachidan, congratulations...you're still a douche.
Not sure why your kendo rank has anything to do with this in the first place. Oh yeh..."expletives". First of all, there was one, which makes that "expletive", and if "dumbass" is an offensive expletive to you, I have to seriously wonder wether you live in Candy Land, or on the set of a children's TV show. Are you really sorry about how I feel...nawwwww, you probably saw that to all the girls. You're right great-grandpa...I win.

P.S. I would apoligize for derailing this thread, but let's face it...it was a car with square wheels right from the start.

[JSchmidt]

Nice try. Re-read my post, and maybe you won't sound like a dumbass. It didn't have to do with rep points, stupid. Notice that I have friends. Then notice you are officially the lowest ranked person on here.

What is this? Jnr high?

[samurai80]

What is this? Jnr high?

Says the guy who gives out negative rep points.

[Peter West]

come on guys, this has become addictive and there is no route to winning or having the last word now. Can we drop it before Neil forces it to stop?
This thread may be a car with square wheels, but at least we've given the OP the opportunity to see that is the general opinion, but neither of you are the OP, so this bickering diminishes the argument against what the thread is all about.
Thanks

[SanguineKendoka]

So in other words we do kendo because we enjoy the use of large quantities of psychoactive substances ;-)

I'm surprised there aren't more dodgy-looking fellas in rough areas trying to sell running shoes or weights benches on the quiet- the fella you see winning a marathon can't talk because he's not only exhausted, he's tripping balls.

/Throwaway joke regarding OP tripping balls. Its not like the thread has got any worse through bickering, it stunk from the word go.

[enkorat]

So in other words we do kendo because we enjoy the use of large quantities of psychoactive substances ;-)

zounds! My secret plan to take over the world by getting people addicted to the smell of bogu and old kote has been revealed....

Maybe I can convince people that the smoke from burning old kote can lead you on a vision quest... for like... enlightenment...and stuff....

[Dan Weber]

Sweet! Flame war.
In before the lock!

[TsurugiSan]

I practice for passion, and have a passion for practice.....ever since I began martial arts I learned it was as natural as breathing to me....I feel most at peace when I'm performing, and learning to bring together the aspects of my being for greater discipline and self mastery...I was always a very calm, (considered 'cold' by some) person so this just seems to be the natural thing that was akin to my already tranquil state of mind.

[xvikingx]

(considered 'cold' by some)
Did anyone consider you a butt-geek?

[Gessho]

Did you ever see that film in the 80's called The Challenge?

Love that movie. Especially Scott Glenn's bowl cut!

[LowFatMat]

Wow. Between Onecut and TsgruruguriSan, this must be the most pretentious thread ever.

Can we have more of Samurai80 and that faux-wise haiku guy taking shots at each other, please?

[Alison2805]

I practice for passion, and have a passion for practice.....ever since I began martial arts I learned it was as natural as breathing to me....I feel most at peace when I'm performing, and learning to bring together the aspects of my being for greater discipline and self mastery...I was always a very calm, (considered 'cold' by some) person so this just seems to be the natural thing that was akin to my already tranquil state of mind.

Youve got to be kidding. Bring the "aspects of your being" together in a less pretentious way mate.

[pgsmith]

....ever since I began martial arts I learned it was as natural as breathing to me....
Really? What sword art are you training in that it feels natural to you? Every one that I am familiar with utilizes movements that are most unnatural, at least for the first thousand repetitions or so. If the sword arts were "natural", they wouldn't be nearly as difficult as they are.

[SanguineKendoka]

This is way up there in the pretention stakes, but Crazy Phil's blatant mental issues keep his short lead in the KWF Trolling leagues.