God Fearing ?

[Khabbi]

Hola

I got a question about a thing you hear now and then "God Fearing" . Usualy you hear it in US politics and about the president " He's a honest god fearing man"

But my question is , why are ppl affraid of God ? , I mean whats the worst he can do to you ? , christians usualy belive in heaven and hell , so if god kills you u go to one of those places , and since god is pretty smart , he should know whats best for you right ? so why fear him ?

The bible has the 10 comandments , and most christians try to follow them , but do you ( christians ) follow the rules coz they make sence and was "made up" by a smart god or do you follow them coz you are affraid of god ?

Usualy Christans say god loves and forgives everybody , so what the heck are you affraid of ?

Basicly there was nothing on tv :happy: , Khabbi

[rottunpunk]

people should fear God not because of His wrath exactly
because the new covenant was all about God being a loving and freindly God, and Christ being the ultimate sacrifice so we dont have to kill any more sheep etc.

but i think it should be a fear in the sense of respect, like one would with an elder or earthly parent-Hes done so much for us and is all powerful, if you do get on the wronge side of Him or try to bargain with Him it could end up being nasty

personally i follow His commandments because i want to please Him and make Him happy
but not all of what is in the bible is rules-that was for the people (Jews) under the old covenant
we are not bound by those rules because all our past present and future sins have been wiped away by the blood of Jesus

all things are permissable, but not all are profitable
if we didnt follow Gods guidance we could get ourselves into trouble, or at the very least not be seen by others as a good witness
who would bother with wanting to be a christian if they are seen to be more messed up than the not yet saved people

well thats my view on it anyways-hope it makes some kind of sense
whats your viewpoint?
are you a christian?
:P

[KhawMengLee]

Hmnnn...a christian guy once told me that the phrase was more in light of the fear of dissapointing god or failing his commandments...still tho, this came from a guy who told me any religion who does not worship Christ worships the devil.

Once again, me personally, I think all religions should be taken as a philosophy rather than a set belief...culture, people change with time...belief digs roots too deep to adapt to change.

[Atama]

What the hell (or heaven if u preffer) has "god fearing" got to do with kendo....will this term make you a better or worse a kendo player, I doubt it so why bring it up in a kendo forum, (which incase you didn't know is a forum designed for the discussion of kendo and other related budo) try a thesaurus next time .

[Khabbi]

Hey

It has nothing at all to do with kendo , thats why i posted it in:

General
News, general chat, other topics

Lounge
Anything that doesn't fit into one of the other forums


Khabbi

[rottunpunk]

[QUOTE=KhawMengLee]still tho, this came from a guy who told me any religion who does not worship Christ worships the devil.

QUOTE]

i believe in faith rather than religion
religion is man made rules-like christening or most of catholic stuff
it has nothing to do with ones relationship with God

i think what the guy meant is that if you dont follow Gods teachings then you are, as we believe, falling victim to the devils lies

satan has a big grip on the world and following sikkhism, buddism etc is what he has mad eup and is not the true word of God, therefore in a way you are worshiping the devil and not God because you are worshiping false idols
anything that comes before God is a false idol including; the big one, tv, music, other faiths and even kendo if you are too into it

has anyone noticed that people say 'oh my God' and 'jesus christ' as curses rather than anything else like 'oh my allah'?
its because there is soo much power in the name of God alone that satan wants to spoil it, and using it as a curse is a way of doing this
the amount its used in this way takes away the preciousness that is in Gods name also
:p

[Koushinkuma]

[QUOTE=KhawMengLee]still tho, this came from a guy who told me any religion who does not worship Christ worships the devil.

QUOTE]

i believe in faith rather than religion
religion is man made rules-like christening or most of catholic stuff
it has nothing to do with ones relationship with God

i think what the guy meant is that if you dont follow Gods teachings then you are, as we believe, falling victim to the devils lies

satan has a big grip on the world and following sikkhism, buddism etc is what he has mad eup and is not the true word of God, therefore in a way you are worshiping the devil and not God because you are worshiping false idols
anything that comes before God is a false idol including; the big one, tv, music, other faiths and even kendo if you are too into it

has anyone noticed that people say 'oh my God' and 'jesus christ' as curses rather than anything else like 'oh my allah'?
its because there is soo much power in the name of God alone that satan wants to spoil it, and using it as a curse is a way of doing this
the amount its used in this way takes away the preciousness that is in Gods name also
:p

Actually in Spanish they say "Ojala" which is a Castillianized version of "o Allah," left over from the invasion of Spain by the Moors.

What's weird about this guy's take (and that of many religious people I have run into) is that anyone who practices Buddhism etc is wrong and must be worshipping Satan...but seemingly every religion (well, not every) believes that they are the only true and right one. So how to guess?

[KhawMengLee]

[QUOTE=KhawMengLee]still tho, this came from a guy who told me any religion who does not worship Christ worships the devil.

QUOTE]


i think what the guy meant is that if you dont follow Gods teachings then you are, as we believe, falling victim to the devils lies

satan has a big grip on the world and following sikkhism, buddism etc is what he has mad eup and is not the true word of God, therefore in a way you are worshiping the devil and not God because you are worshiping false idols
anything that comes before God is a false idol including; the big one, tv, music, other faiths and even kendo if you are too into it


:p

Erm...firstly Buddhism is a philosophy. And secondly, your comment that buddhism etc is made up by satan, frankly, is an insult. Worshipping false idols?!? Maaan...if my worshipping of false idols is wrong then I dont want to be right...at least my false idols have never sent their followers out to rape, kill and pillage in the name of god.

The true word of God? What is it? God has never spoken to us, except "supposedly" thru the church(his instrument on earth?). So what is the true word of god?

I would rather put my efforts into serving people and humanity than to God.

[Winter_Wolf]

Erm...firstly Buddhism is a philosophy. And secondly, your comment that buddhism etc is made up by satan, frankly, is an insult. Worshipping false idols?!? Maaan...if my worshipping of false idols is wrong then I dont want to be right...at least my false idols have never sent their followers out to rape, kill and pillage in the name of god.

The true word of God? What is it? God has never spoken to us, except "supposedly" thru the church(his instrument on earth?). So what is the true word of god?

I would rather put my efforts into serving people and humanity than to God.

The word of God is the Bible! Tho obviously few of the ppl commenting on this thread have read it! God did not send out servants to rape, kill, and pillage, humanity was givin free will, rather than being made into robotic slaves always obeying God's will, and for this you should at least show some respect! God sent out his ppl (the israelites) to settle in lands promised to them, those ppl who were not believers and still lived in those lands were punished by being destroyed by God. I could go on and on, but then we'd end up in the flames section, instead i'll leave you with this comment: Even if no one can prove to you there is a God, wouldn't you rather believe than take the chance on hell?

[KhawMengLee]

Even if no one can prove to you there is a God, wouldn't you rather believe than take the chance on hell?

Hell.

I live a good life. Raised in my religion/philosophy which teaches me respect and compassion. If I lived my whole life to these ends and am sent to hell for not believing/accepting a Christian God then I gladly join the ranks in hell. At least the company will be good;)


As for showing respect...I am merely countering a previous comment on how my religion is satan's work.

[LNGUYEN]

If you praise your religious and bashing others, it is wrong. To me, God is not for fearing but for loving. God teach us how to live by his commandments and bible and we should follow them because of love. God teach us to love others not hate. However, people have free wills and they can make their own choices. If you chose the bad choice then you go to Hell after all, not because of God purnishment but it is your choice. The great things about God is forgiveness, if you made wrong choice and later regret it, you can fix it by changing you live style and be good again. This is true to any religion, Hebrew, Christian, Budhist, Islam, and any other good religions.

[rottunpunk]

If you praise your religious and bashing others, it is wrong. To me, God is not for fearing but for loving. God teach us how to live by his commandments and bible and we should follow them because of love. God teach us to love others not hate. However, people have free wills and they can make their own choices. If you chose the bad choice then you go to Hell after all, not because of God purnishment but it is your choice. The great things about God is forgiveness, if you made wrong choice and later regret it, you can fix it by changing you live style and be good again. This is true to any religion, Hebrew, Christian, Budhist, Islam, and any other good religions.

so true! ;)

im glad ive chosen to be a penticostal
its the coolest thing ever
i know i cant really speak for other religions or faiths cuz ive only really come across them in R.E at school or other people who hold there beliefs in them
but cults like the mormons etc. can screw you up big time cuz i know people who have been there

and i know this is real from miricals that ive seen with my own eyes
it all just makes sense to me
:p

[Hongsermeier]

I think the saying "God fearing" is a little miss understood. I beleive it is meant to say the person has respect for religion. That implies how you should act toward other people. To assume the use of the word "God" means only Christinanity is wrong. God refers to an all important being. Weather that being is Jesus, Budda or Alla is up for interpretation. :cross_eye

[John W]

My point of view is....

Think of Earth like the matrix and Satan is in control (for now).

I don't know about the rest of you but I sin on a regular basis. I just can't help it- with every thought or action- I just can't be perfect. Even in this forum already there is a little bit of spite, anger or even hate. Lets face it- it's in our nature and by even denying it- you sin. I try my best to walk in Jesus footsteps but to no avail- but it will not stop me from trying.

Don't get me wrong I am a nice guy- but we all sin.

Because of this, even if you are a nice person, who goes to church every Sunday and gives away eveything to help others. IF you do not admit that you are a sinner and then ask Jesus to become your personal saviour and let his blood wash away your sin so that you may enter the kingdom of God without it- you will go to hell. Hell is full of nice people. Or another way- The road to hell is paved with good intentions!

Tough isn't it?

I don't even go to church! But I believe that a man about 2000 years ago came to save us.

I wish to post this because I want others to know about it.

PS- I love kendo and so posting this on a kendo forum for me is kinda wierd! :happy:

[mingshi]

My point of view is.... Think of Earth like the matrix and Satan is in control (for now).
...Meaning we are in hell already, aye? :D


but cults like the mormons etc. can screw you up big time cuz i know people who have been there
How do you define which one is/isn't a cult? I feel sorry for the Jehovah Witness people who can't get blood transfusion... plus all the anti-abortion, anti-condom, homophobic ones who can only pull out "what the scripture says" as their argument. Needless to say it is not very enjoyable to bring up scientific evidence when the person believes the Earth is only 6,000 year old, made in 6 days, and that it is FLAT!


humanity was givin free will, rather than being made into robotic slaves always obeying God's will
Try picking up an ant and tell it to walk in circles. Tell it that if it does it will please you and you will grant it a piece of your biscuit, and if it doesn't you'll smash it under your shoes.

This is what free will means. Do you call that a choice? I think you can look up the few essays by Bertrand Russell for more explanation of free will... (certainly more internet resources)


Even if no one can prove to you there is a God, wouldn't you rather believe than take the chance on hell?
Google for "Pascal's Wager".


but seemingly every religion (well, not every) believes that they are the only true and right one. So how to guess?
In Christianity, and according to the Bible, God himself started this. Check out Exodus 20, and especially #1 of the Ten Commandments.


Until the question where is the World come from, the Big Bang, then where was giant particle that set up the Big Bang come from be answer, I think no science or any Human can take up the Religions
Okay this one is from the "flames" thread, but I think I can answer it here. If you have doubts in the Big Bang, why not ask where God comes from?


I know that the fundamentals of religion are outstanding even if you dont believe in a god. They all fundamentaly teach positively.
This one is from the "flames" as well... No, religion is not all that positive. It is very much based on rules and restriction, so that people stay under control. Without rules the society is going into chaos, and in the early days those in power already realised this. Hence almost all religion praise selfless-ness, generosity, and condemn greed, pride, envy... and most importantly, anything sexual!


Usualy Christans say god loves and forgives everybody , so what the heck are you affraid of ?
Now, going back to the subject of "God Fearing". God is not portraited as a loving one, but rather a God with emotions of anger, jealousy, disappointment etc. etc. in the Old Testament. He is the one who send out plagues, floodings, earthquakes or any other disasters that human beings cannot explain without the use of science.

Did someone fear God so that he start a war? Or did he listen to God and start a war? Who knows? The fate of human being is in the hands of someone who hears little voices... maybe this is what we should be fearing...

[rottunpunk]

well id rather be in heaven than here. plus earth will become like a living hell for those who do not have the mark of christ in the end days (see revelations)

a cult is legally defined as a sect or not very ethical religion (not in those exact words-but basically they don’t get equitable charitable interest-its their choice to not want to have a blood transfusion etc. just like its your choice not to believe in it. But God gave scientists and doctors gifts to help us. also science is a much younger theory than the historical fact of the bible. many atheists have gone out to disprove what the bible says and ended up proving it.

About the world disasters etc.-that was the God of the old covenant. isiah 54v10 talks about the new covenant under which God promises never to afflict us, so how can he cause earthquakes. God promises to love us and never harm us. He cant break his promise because God is truth

and as for commandment number 1
thou shalt have no other Gods before me.
if you made people, to enjoy them growing over the earth-would you want them to serve anyone or anything else-especially something as dumb as a statue that was made by people themselves.
in heaven we will be worshiping him for eternity-doing it now is just good practice for afterwards.
also look at exodus in context-not only did God make the people but He led them out of slavery-dont you like being praised for good stuff that you've done-like when you get promoted at work for being a good worker?

i dont mean to sound bitchy here-just giving my view on the matter so you dont have to be close minded out of ignorance.
:p

[rottunpunk]

[QUOTE=mingshi
This one is from the "flames" as well... No, religion is not all that positive. It is very much based on rules and restriction, so that people stay under control. Without rules the society is going into chaos, and in the early days those in power already realised this. Hence almost all religion praise selfless-ness, generosity, and condemn greed, pride, envy... and most importantly, anything sexual!


..[/QUOTE]

christianity is positive
and God created orgasms so sex could be enjoyable
plus geneis 1 is all about God telling birds and beasts and people to go out and multiply-he encourages it

its just the advise given by paul in i think it corinthians about sexual relationships out of wedlock.
sex isnt a good thing to base a relationship on, and then unwanted pregnasies occure so if the kid isnt aborted itll probably end up growing up in an unstable family

like i said befor everything is permissable but not all things are profitable
:p

[JSchmidt]

"also science is a much younger theory than the historical fact of the bible."

Well, according to the bible, earth is only something like 6000 years old, something science has pretty solidly disproven.

Question: If God created us (and the world, etc)...who/what created God?

Jakob

[mingshi]

its their choice to not want to have a blood transfusion etc. just like its your choice not to believe in it.
hmmm AFAIK not the case of Jehovah Witness... check watchtower.org

More seriously are the social issues both taken pro and against by Christians of different churchs or organizations. What is your stand point on these:-
Homosexuality/ Gay-couple marriage
Circumcision
Masturbation
Abortion/ birth control
Sex before marriage
Capital punishment
Women rights
... and the list goes endless...


About the world disasters etc.-
I m refering to those from Noah's time to Moses, and maybe ever further. God is accounted for everything from the global flood to turning the River Nile into blood, locust plagues, etc. etc.


if you made people, to enjoy them growing over the earth-would you want them to serve anyone or anything else-especially something as dumb as a statue that was made by people themselves.
If we have free will, we can worship whatever we like. We should not be threatened by the eternal fire of hell because we take another religion.


dont you like being praised for good stuff that you've done-like when you get promoted at work for being a good worker?
Why does good/evil has to be compensated? Face it, this is life and not imagination. You work hard and hoping for one day someone will praise you. That didn't happen -- so you cast this thought on a phantom, and phantasize that one day you will get paid, even after you die.

It's a good way of thinking that when you die you will be rewarded by all the good things that you've done. That is basically why you need the concept of Life after Death. The Egyptians who built Pyramids knew that as well.


christianity is positive...and God created orgasms so sex could be enjoyable
I thought orgasm has to do with your sexual partner...? What about those who can never experience an orgasm?
Don't forget it is the same God who "create" all of the following:-
STD, HIV, AIDS
Erectile Dysfunction and/or any form of impotent

Maybe you can direct me onto some Scriptures on "Christianity is positive on Sex"... Apart from the Songs of Songs, I cannot really find any - As for negative ones, there are everywhere; City of Sodom(y), incest, you name it.

Just when did the Bible turn into a History book? There are close-to-none historical references on the events occurred in the Bible. Even the existence of Jesus Christ cannot be proven! The 4 Gospels were written generations after he died, and the authors are not his direct disciples...

YMMY,
Mingshi
11 years under religious education
HKCEE/GCSE Religious Studies (passed with C)
Owner of 7 editions of Bible
Atheist

[Shazzanzzz]

First of all, I really don't like some people saying stuff about things they don't understand, especially rottunpunk. Buddhism is not devil worshiping and mormens aren't a cult, and Allah and God IS the same god. What Muslim and Christianity disagree on is that muslims don't think Jesus is the son of god, and that Muhammud is of the higher "priest" (can't think of the word i was looking for).

I have had many mormen friends, and, they are the nicest people I've ever met, and i've been into their church, and no, they don't have devil statues inside or make people cut themselves or anything.

Also, my uncle is a buddhist, so, i've read some his books and stuff, and, ideally, buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. Some people made it into a superstitious kind of religion, which many buddhists consider a completely different thing from the original buddhism. Like, Taiwanese buddhism is officially called Taiwan local religion, not really buddhism, because it's mixed with other chinese daoist stuff too. Also note, daoism is very close to Buddhism.

I'm personally a Chrisitian, yep, baptized and everything, but, i haven't gone to Church for more than 7 years. Why? Because i was tired of those people telling me if you don't believe in god, you're gonna go in hell. I do believe in god, but, i don't believe in stuff people add to make you fear god and make it seem like you HAVE to worship him else you are going to hell. I believe my life is what I will make of it, in this life and the afterlife.

I mean, who is going to go to heaven. A archbishop that rapes little boys and no one ever found out about it? or a devoted buddist who spent his whole life helping people more unfortunate than him even though he doesn't have that much to live on himself.

What's wrong with religion is not god or religion itself, it's the people munipulating religions to their own personal gains or blinded by the mere words some other people wrote in the name of god.

Real Christians should be forgiving and understanding, shouldn't be bigots against other religions.

[Nishi]

Ive spent a long time studying the bible with many different people...my comment is more for people how are reading these threads..

Very little that has been expressed regarding christianity here is accurate.

As for the personal search for the answers...you wont find them here.

[JSchmidt]

"Even the existence of Jesus Christ cannot be proven!"

Ah, but there's enough anecdotal evidence that there's a very good chance that he existed. Also many of the events in bible surrounding the time of Jesus are historical. If my memory serves me right, the Black Sea Scrolls confirmed much of that.

You could say the same about the Theory of Evolution. It is just a theory and while there's many (many) supporting facts, it is still a theory as we don't have complete scientific records of the last 5 billion years. (only the last 400 or so, with scratchy information from the previous 2000 years).

Jakob

[Shazzanzzz]

Ive spent a long time studying the bible with many different people...my comment is more for people how are reading these threads..

Very little that has been expressed regarding christianity here is accurate.

As for the personal search for the answers...you wont find them here.

Nishi, I would like your opinion on my post if it's not too much trouble or if i'm not too wrong to even argue about in your perspective.

previous post
"Because i was tired of those people telling me if you don't believe in god, you're gonna go in hell. I do believe in god, but, i don't believe in stuff people add to make you fear god and make it seem like you HAVE to worship him else you are going to hell."

I forgot to say, not all Christians are like that, it's actually only a few, but, I didn't really want to deal with those few, especially being a teenager and all.

Also note, the word i was looking for was apostle, as my friend pointed out to me.

[mingshi]

Jakob... I m sure you mean the DEAD Sea Scrolls :D That has something to do with the original text for Old Testament... nothing about Jesus was in there... Contradicting accounts about Jesus within the 4 Gospels is much of a funny read...

As for Evolution being ONLY a theory... well Biology itself is based on theory. But it can be also be a fact. Not sure what kind of proof do you want from Relativity, if you want everything to be proven by physical evidence, and pure logic and field research do not count.


Real Christians should be forgiving and understanding, shouldn't be bigots against other religions.
True. No wonder both W Bush and Bin Laden called this their "Holy war" :rolleyes:

[xvikingx]

True. No wonder both W Bush and Bin Laden called this their "Holy war" :rolleyes:

Here here... If I were God there would be a whole lot o' smotin' going on.

[JSchmidt]

Right..Dead Sea scrolls and old testament..been ages since I dealt with that stuff.

Regardless: Most of the bioligy theories can be proven through experiements, which makes a science fact. Evolution, while it has been proven in some variants of flies, is still mainly a theory, as we need wait a few million years in order to prove it :). I still think it's very good theory (certainly makes an awful lot more sense and has an awful lot more evidence than the creationist ones ), but it remains a theory.

Jakob

[Nishi]

Dead sea scrolls, Gnostic gospels, Roman reports, and scrolls found in the 1930's in Nag Hammadi, as well as the Q'uran are very important texts. Unfortunatley the Bible was compiled of 66 books that a handful of men chose to neatly package and deliver religion. The lines drawn between religions are man made, and religious propaganda used by some sects to discredit others is a comman feature.
As for science vs religion, what your really comparing is 'mans understanding of science' vs 'mans understanding of God' both are poor. The old testament refers to God as the first scientist ('omniscisant' i think), science is Gods.
The four Gospels where written after the crucifixion due to Roman policy regarding Christs followers, the first gospel was written est.80-90a.d. I think it was St.Mathew which was recorded by his circle, most followers kept hidden, even the cross is a symbol used later which replaced the 'fish'. Later selection of bible texts was heavily influenced by the later established Roman church, however, even from a political perspective, once Rome saw it could not extinguish Christs followers, she assimilated them behind the mask of religion(see revelations). There are gnostic gospels that are reported(carbon dating) to be written during the time of Christ with instructions regarding His church which are conviently left out of what we call 'the bible'.
Dont let mans religious hypocrasy stop you from seeking an unchanging God, it needs to be studied deeply to be understood.

[John W]

...Meaning we are in hell already, aye? :D



Yeah... the old cliche that hell is on earth could be accurate.

However at the end of the day we are all going to die. Most people pooh thier pants at this prospect. I don't mind dying but I don't want to die in the second death.

I deeply respect everyone who has posted their thoughts and theories on this topic. But Nishi brought up a good point that you will not find answers here because, quite simply, you won't.

Nothing wrong though with a good debate! :happy:

But Mingshi- Do you really believe in nothing? And when you say that to yourself don't you have a nagging doubt? :confused:

[John W]

Also regarding the Bible.

How many witnesses does it take to convict a man or women of murder?

How many people saw Jesus Christ after his ressurection? I have been told about 500.

[JSchmidt]

But Mingshi- Do you really believe in nothing? And when you say that to yourself don't you have a nagging doubt? :confused:

I'm probably just as staunch an atheist as Mingshi:

No, I don't believe in any kind of god, supreme being, all connecting force, etc, but to say that I believe in nothing is wrong...I believe in humanity. I believe we should all strive to make our lives (which is the only one we got, nothing before, nothing after) as comfortable as possible. This means treating people as you would want to be treated, etc.

Jakob

[John W]

I'm probably just as staunch an atheist as Mingshi:

No, I don't believe in any kind of god, supreme being, all connecting force, etc, but to say that I believe in nothing is wrong...I believe in humanity. I believe we should all strive to make our lives (which is the only one we got, nothing before, nothing after) as comfortable as possible. This means treating people as you would want to be treated, etc.

Jakob

Ok then- may I ask a question?

Give or take there are about 6 billion people on Earth. If you believe in humanity and do not believe in a CREATOR then how come each and every one of us is different. Or another way, in all the time the universe has existed there will only ever be ONE J Schmidt or ONE Mingshi (who is probably asleep while this is being typed) :D a little odd don't you think?

And one more thing. After this life- what then? Absolutley nothing? C'mon! there HAS to be something after this. And there is something as sure as death and taxes in this life and that is...that not one day will pass on this Earth that you will not learn something new each day.

[JSchmidt]

Ok then- may I ask a question?

Give or take there are about 6 billion people on Earth. If you believe in humanity and do not believe in a CREATOR then how come each and every one of us is different. Or another way, in all the time the universe has existed there will only ever be ONE J Schmidt or ONE Mingshi (who is probably asleep while this is being typed) :D a little odd don't you think?

Odd?..not really...it's mainly biological changes, when you combine the genes of 2 different persons (Your parents).



And one more thing. After this life- what then? Absolutley nothing? C'mon! there HAS to be something after this. And there is something as sure as death and taxes in this life and that is...that not one day will pass on this Earth that you will not learn something new each day.

You could argue that it would seem pointless to live, if this is all we got, but my point of view is that I'm here and I might as well make the most of it, as that's all I got. Why does there have to be more than this?.

Again I ask...if God create the universe, who/what created God?

Jakob

[KhawMengLee]

Jakob... I m sure you mean the DEAD Sea Scrolls :D That has something to do with the original text for Old Testament... nothing about Jesus was in there... Contradicting accounts about Jesus within the 4 Gospels is much of a funny read...

As for Evolution being ONLY a theory... well Biology itself is based on theory. But it can be also be a fact. Not sure what kind of proof do you want from Relativity, if you want everything to be proven by physical evidence, and pure logic and field research do not count.


True. No wonder both W Bush and Bin Laden called this their "Holy war" :rolleyes:


Hmmnnn, there's a book that Dan Browne wrote called the Da Vinci Code that talks a great deal on this matter. The modern version(compilation) of the bible we know of today was written(compiled) 300 years after Christ's death. A lot of things were ommited from there, especially to reduce the power of women in the church.

An interesting point deals with the warping of Mary Magdelene into the whore, whereas in some circles she was Jesus' wife and never a lady of nogotiable affection. Incidentally, go have a look at the picture by Da Vinci of the last supper and look at the figure on his right...its a woman....and guess which woman...hehe. The book talks a great deal about the Sangrial(holy grail) and the Priory of Zion(secret group much like the Freemasons and the Templars). Coolest revelation being that the grail is not a chalice but the bloodline of christ.

Notice that the earliest versions of the bible like the dead sea scrolls aren't made available to the public...

************************************************** ****

The bible isn't really flattering to women...Lilith(Adam's first wife) was cursed to watch a hundred of her children die because she refused to be obedient and sunserviant to Adam...hohoho. And eve was the one who gave the appple to adam to bite(with a little help from Lilith in snake form)...etc etc

[rottunpunk]

id just like to say in reply to mingishis earlier post
God did NOT create std hiv etc. that is one of the biggest tricks the world has fallen for
when sin entered the world it brought with it death and sickness God did not create it

as for my views on the following subjects:-
Homosexuality/ Gay-couple marriage - im not against gay people just people being gay, if we were meant to be homosexual our reproductive organs would accomodate that, but they dont. God doesnt like it-my aim in life is to be like Him, so it goes with the territory to think like Him.
Circumcision - thats old law, we dont do that. but if any ones seen the bible show by the reduced shakespeare company theres a great line in it about God wanting to make a wallet which turns into a briefcase when he rubs it. :p circumcision partly comes from reducing the risk of infection cuz of the climate. also have you ever heard of the female version-they do it to girls in some eastern country where they sew up the vagina leaving a whole big enough to let period blood to get through but so they cant run off with some other man before their pre-arranged marriage. quite a few die from it-not pleasent-christians would never do that.
Masturbation - not right. i know theres medical evidence to show that men need to let some go at some point or they''ll literally burst - but sir cliff richard manages ok, and its all about not giving into your fleshly desires.
Abortion/ birth control
Sex before marriage - i commented on this before, its advised against doing so because of implications (see previous post)
Capital punishment - um not sure, God is the ultimate judge. "let he who has never sinned cast the first stone", but in the same sense, God appointed magistrates to uphold the law, if capital punishment is sufficiant enough as a deterrant to most people to commit crime, then i guess its ok-but only for the most serious and gross of crimes.
Women rights - hey im a girl, of course we have rights, but not to the state that p.cness goes overboard like it does in the u.s (hehe-no offense)
but i noticed you didnt ask about racism, ask the mormons about that, or most asian r4eligions. anyways the bible says we should treat aliens (foreigners) like our own, so racism is bad too

[JSchmidt]

Notice that the earliest versions of the bible like the dead sea scrolls aren't made available to the public...

I believe they are..at least in the sense that they are on display in a museum in Israel. (One of my former employers designed it).

Also this website begs to differ:
http://www.flash.net/~hoselton/deadsea/deadsea.htm

(Was on page one of a google search).

Jakob

[JSchmidt]

"Homosexuality/ Gay-couple marriage - im not against gay people just people being gay, if we were meant to be homosexual our reproductive organs would accomodate that, but they dont. God doesnt like it-my aim in life is to be like Him, so it goes with the territory to think like Him."

Just this weekend scientists announced they could create sperm from stem-cells. Does this mean that men should stop to exist?.
In a very near future, we will most likely be able to create babies outside a womans womb, which will throw the whole reproduction arguments out of the window.

[Nishi]

KhawMengLee, there are alot of books available regarding secret societies, Leonardo Divinci was with out a doubt a heritic. He was a member of society known as the Rosicrucions (sp?) where their belief was regarding the Christ and John the Baptist being switched at birth. Hence Christ was beheaded and not crucified. The shroud of Turin was actually a Divinci experiment called a 'camera obscura' which took ptimitave pictures using light and shadows, if you look closley at the image there are lines depicting a beheading as well as the wounds from the crucifixion, all staged, the man in the image is Leonardo. You are right about the last supper painting, in fact most of his art work was hiding Priory de zion beliefs, the current head of todays secret society is the illuminati (read a book called The Templar revelation).

Someone asked who created God...he just is. I wouldnt get to wrapped up in heretical beliefs, and the Magdelene theory isnt a new one, but it did foster a line if French kings claiming to be descendents of christ. You should know the truth when you see it though (my opinion).

[litige]

like many asked, who created god?

Rien ne se perd, rien ne se creer, tout se transforme.

What we go to paradise and thats it?

faith....wah, what does God give more than if you don't believe in him?

[John W]

You could argue that it would seem pointless to live, if this is all we got, but my point of view is that I'm here and I might as well make the most of it, as that's all I got. Why does there have to be more than this?.

Again I ask...if God create the universe, who/what created God?

Jakob

So you are trying to tell me that you DON'T have a soul?

[litige]

So you are trying to tell me that you DON'T have a soul?

woah! I'm gonna keep my mouth shut on this, because i'll make no friends.

No one knows if we have a soul or not, we will see it at the end.

Hinduism is the oldest religion, why would they not be right over christianism?

[litige]

Hinduism is the oldest religion, why would they not be right over christianism?

This is not related to the soul thing.

[JSchmidt]

So you are trying to tell me that you DON'T have a soul?

I don't know...define 'soul' please.


Jakob

[litige]

I don't know...define 'soul' please.


Jakob

Oh! nice one there!

[mingshi]

...in all the time the universe has existed there will only ever be ONE J Schmidt or ONE Mingshi (who is probably asleep while this is being typed) a little odd don't you think?
This is called the Argument by Design

In addition to what Mr Schmidt said, if you see 99,999 John W walking around the street, I'd call that ODD. If everyone wins the lottery, that's odd too. Life is the result of mindless "design" of natural selection. You don't need to mystify it by attaching a God there.


After this life- what then? Absolutley nothing? C'mon! there HAS to be something after this.
Man, you are rather greedy!!


go have a look at the picture by Da Vinci of the last supper
Religious art, including painting and architecture, has always been part of the propaganda... My first impression was that, Jesus and his 12 disciples happened to be Caucasians...


...Mary Magdelene into the whore...
An adoptation of Nikos Kazantzakis's novel, Martin Scorsese did the film "Last Temptation of Christ". The bible is just there left for wild interpretation. Great film, btw.


Lilith(Adam's first wife)...blah
One from Judaism. Just as other parts of the bible, tales from other culture are in there as well.


As for science vs religion, what your really comparing is 'mans understanding of science' vs 'mans understanding of God' both are poor. The old testament refers to God as the first scientist ('omniscisant' i think), science is Gods.
Nice try! Is you last word of the paragraph an intentional mis-spell? I like the 'Science is "Gods"' phrase. The more science we have the less gods we need.

No wonder, according to the Flat Earth Society, the Earth is flat. It still is.
And I am not sure if the Sun is spinning around the Earth. Nor The Sun appears after the definition of what a "day" is. Besides, Genesis is probably the most interesting book of all in the bible. We can argue everything about the reliability of the bible just by reading this one.

However, yours is only a statement about humanity. Attributing something we cannot currently explain by science to God is just pushing the blame away. "Hey why is there thunder?" "Dunno. God is snoring." "Oh that make sense." Yeah right.

In the case of "The Creation of the Universe". If you need an explanation of a "natural universe", you are demanding for a "higher universe". But this necessity of "(il)logical explanation" should also apply to the "higher universe". Why can't the universe be "it just is" - but God can be "it just is"?


So you are trying to tell me that you DON'T have a soul? I forget who has it now... I have sold mine a couple of times in the pass... :D


when sin entered the world it brought with it death and sickness God did not create it
Okay. Now where did sin come in? Where did the HIV virus come from?

As for your comments on my social issues:-

Homosexuality/ Gay-couple marriage
- "God doesnt like it-my aim in life ..."
Absolutely goddamn right! God doesn't like it. That's why he trashed the whole of Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Amazingly... you should check out what Lot did prior to that!! (Warning of pornographic material on Genesis 19)

Circumcision
- "thats old law, we dont do that."
Who define what is old and what is new? Jesus? Take a look at his view on adultery...
- "have you ever heard of the female version..."
It's in Africa. It still is. The use unclean surgical equipments is one of the reason of the widespread of HIV. Strange that you mention "christian don't do so and so". According to Leviticus and certain other parts of the bible, menstruating women are unclean to God.

Masturbation
- "not right."
You got this one right. This one goes with Leviticus - side-by-side with the issue of menstruating women, as well as instruction to how to keep yourself clean.

Abortion/ birth control
- You missed this one.

Sex before marriage - i commented on this before, its advised against doing so because of implications (see previous post)

Capital punishment
- 'God is the ultimate judge. "let he who has never sinned cast the first stone", but in the same sense, God appointed magistrates to uphold the law...'
Nice try. But you just contradict yourself. Who is in the magistrates? Are they "he who has never sinned"? Also, AFAIK, law on capital punishment varies from state to state in the US. Guess there is a confusion in the ultimate appointment of magistrates there.

Women rights
- "hey im a girl, of course we have rights... "
Like what?

-but i noticed you didnt ask about racism
Maybe it's already a little bit too heavy to read, but may I suggest you to take a look at 1 Samuel, Chapter 15... concerning a war, where God's instruction was to "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

As for cult... You really need to do some research on it before making a comment. This is my reference concerning CULT (from Age of Propaganda by A Pratkanis and E Aronson). When I first read the chapter it really gave me sweating and nightmares. Never underestimate the power of religion - especially when it maxmizes faith to the level of of the very extreme.


The term cult is used to describe a pattern of social relations within a group. At the core of these relations is dependency. In a cult, members are dependent on the group and its leader for most if not all resources, including money, food and clothing, information, decisioin making, and perhaps most importantly, self-esteem and social identity...

(In case you wonder why this long post came up so fast after KWF was down... I had already typed this one up and attempting to send it out - approx. at the same time the site went down.)

[Nishi]

Mingshi,
Yes definatley a miss spell...my spelling is poor. As for your post you appear to have a lot of information but little understanding. But thats the entire nature of ignorance.

I suppose that you have made 'whatever it is you believe' your religion, and the propaganda you accuse christianity of spreading isnt too different than what your doing here...hypocrisy?

And it is very much a debate of 'mans understanding of God vs mans understanding of science' but its now become 'Davids understanding of God vs Jenny's understanding of everything'

Its probably a better debate for you on a bible forum where scholars post, just a thought. Im always curious though...for something im sure exists, i can dedicate my life...but for something you are so sure isnt there you put forth an awful lot of energy and emotion to disprove...

[John W]

Mingshi,
Yes definatley a miss spell...my spelling is poor. As for your post you appear to have a lot of information but little understanding. But thats the entire nature of ignorance.

I suppose that you have made 'whatever it is you believe' your religion, and the propaganda you accuse christianity of spreading isnt too different than what your doing here...hypocrisy?

And it is very much a debate of 'mans understanding of God vs mans understanding of science' but its now become 'Davids understanding of God vs Jenny's understanding of everything'

Its probably a better debate for you on a bible forum where scholars post, just a thought. Im always curious though...for something im sure exists, i can dedicate my life...but for something you are so sure isnt there you put forth an awful lot of energy and emotion to disprove...

Good point Nishi. :shocked:

By the way, a soul simply defined... is YOU.

[JSchmidt]

Good point Nishi. :shocked:

By the way, a soul simply defined... is YOU.
Well, of course I believe I exist..but I fail to see the connection with god(s).

Jakob

[Nanbanjin]

This is called the Argument by Design

In addition to what Mr Schmidt said, if you see 99,999 John W walking around the street, I'd call that ODD. If everyone wins the lottery, that's odd too. Life is the result of mindless "design" of natural selection. You don't need to mystify it by attaching a God there....

Stick it up em Mingshi!

If we do have souls at least you've got one with a bit of fight.

Kind regards from a devout believer of nothing in particular.

[John W]

Wow! you must be right!

Mingshi and J Schmidt are without the shadow of a doubt correct about the non existence of God, Jesus or any other holy figure.

I now withdraw my faith and belief in any God. And will just accept that this life is all I have and that's it!

[Bear]

Whether there is a god or not...and which of them is the "ONE"
...no one should really care.

Man lives by his own acts and not through the hopeful acceptance of "a" god.

At the begging, mid and end of the day, we should all be striving towards betterment in all things regardless of the name we attach to it.

Only then may "we" Humanity call itself :Good.

Most of the problems in theology is the inacceptance of others faiths..even those who don't have one.

Just BE good to one another...period!

[Gen'ei]

There is only one god, but he is in thousands and thousands of religion's.